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Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training
Posted by cfdavep
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Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 2,070 |
http://www.cracked.com/article_24325_5-ways-u.s.-schools-suck-compared-to-rest-world.html.
Number 4 on the cracked page
According to modern parents their special snowflakes are too good for vocational school and that has led to a glut of snowflakes who would rather take a English lit degree, ruining themselves financially in the process, than consider something vocational that would actually get them a real job, instead of having to start their careers at Micky Dees after 4 years of college. It also mentions German students who are not money'd or socially contected tend to apply for vocational training instead of this special snowflake crap.
From Cracked:
"Mostly because, starting about a generation ago, parents decided their special angels were too good to get their hands dirty. In a recent poll, only half of parents surveyed said they would encourage their child to get a vocational education, and three-quarters admitted they thought vocational education was beneath them. The schools aren't helping in this matter, either. Almost a quarter of students are told they are too clever for vocational education, instilling the notion that becoming an investment banker is somehow a better use of their time and intelligence than learning how to fix airplanes"
Number 4 on the cracked page
According to modern parents their special snowflakes are too good for vocational school and that has led to a glut of snowflakes who would rather take a English lit degree, ruining themselves financially in the process, than consider something vocational that would actually get them a real job, instead of having to start their careers at Micky Dees after 4 years of college. It also mentions German students who are not money'd or socially contected tend to apply for vocational training instead of this special snowflake crap.
From Cracked:
"Mostly because, starting about a generation ago, parents decided their special angels were too good to get their hands dirty. In a recent poll, only half of parents surveyed said they would encourage their child to get a vocational education, and three-quarters admitted they thought vocational education was beneath them. The schools aren't helping in this matter, either. Almost a quarter of students are told they are too clever for vocational education, instilling the notion that becoming an investment banker is somehow a better use of their time and intelligence than learning how to fix airplanes"
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 356 |
My parents had this attitude in abundance. From the day I was born it was pounded into my head that the only acceptable lifestyle was a four-year degree and a professional career. They made it clear they looked down on anyone who did not have a college degree. They relentlessly discouraged me from taking an interest in anything that was "beneath" someone as smart as me.
I was a bright kid with good grades, but I never had a huge interest in academics. Of course my parents had constant shit fits over this and my teachers didn't like it either. Neither encouraged me to pursue what I was interested in, which is creative and artistic things. In elementary school I wanted to be a singer and my parents never had one good thing to say about that. I still think I could sing well with some training. In high school I wanted to write a novel and they said that was too solitary, I should find a more social activity. (I was an unpopular nerd, they always seemed to disapprove of the few friends I did have, yet they criticized me for not being social enough. Wtf?)
I did go to college and majored in microbiology. I never had a lot of interest in science, but it was the least objectionable of the few things that were acceptable to my parents. Plus I've heard all my life there are tons of jobs in science and healthcare. That did not turn out to be true, at least not in my case. I was unemployed often and when I did work the jobs were crappy.
Looking back, I should have found something creative to major in and possibly a two-year degree would have been enough. I probably would have been more successful at something I wanted to do. Plus no one told me there are a lot of psychos in science, and I really did not need to be exposed to that.
So in summary I agree 1000% that parents should be open-minded about their kids' education.
I was a bright kid with good grades, but I never had a huge interest in academics. Of course my parents had constant shit fits over this and my teachers didn't like it either. Neither encouraged me to pursue what I was interested in, which is creative and artistic things. In elementary school I wanted to be a singer and my parents never had one good thing to say about that. I still think I could sing well with some training. In high school I wanted to write a novel and they said that was too solitary, I should find a more social activity. (I was an unpopular nerd, they always seemed to disapprove of the few friends I did have, yet they criticized me for not being social enough. Wtf?)
I did go to college and majored in microbiology. I never had a lot of interest in science, but it was the least objectionable of the few things that were acceptable to my parents. Plus I've heard all my life there are tons of jobs in science and healthcare. That did not turn out to be true, at least not in my case. I was unemployed often and when I did work the jobs were crappy.
Looking back, I should have found something creative to major in and possibly a two-year degree would have been enough. I probably would have been more successful at something I wanted to do. Plus no one told me there are a lot of psychos in science, and I really did not need to be exposed to that.
So in summary I agree 1000% that parents should be open-minded about their kids' education.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
I believe that society is rapidly stratifying into mostly two distinct classes of people--one class of "victims" and another class of people who can make things happen. And by "make things happen," I mean people who can provide goods, services, profits, or a combination of all three.
If you are going to college for a licensed profession--medicine, law, accounting--by all means, go to college. Because you can't of course just open up your own brain surgery clinic. You need the proper training and licensure. But if you're going to college for a "______ studies" degree, or liberal arts, or to embark on a platform of "social justice," you are wasting your time and money. If you want to learn about any of this stuff, you should take advantage of your free local public library. It's all there, and the only cost to learn this stuff is your time. There is simply no need to fork over $40k every year to listen to professors drone on about their perception of "injustices" in the world. Let some other sucker hand over his hard earned money for that.
Learning how to be a carpenter, plumber, or electrician can be very profitable. HVAC technicians are also in demand. And there's nothing wrong with learning the science behind botany and agriculture, or selling real estate.
Life is linear, think long-term. Think about goods and services that people want and use. Think about the degrees and/or job training programs that can put you in a position to help you provide those things.
The bottom line is that a degree in 17th Century Cambodian Dance Theory won't stop an overflowing toilet, won't repair an air conditioner, doesn't put a roof over anyone's head, and isn't on anyone's Christmas list.
If you are going to college for a licensed profession--medicine, law, accounting--by all means, go to college. Because you can't of course just open up your own brain surgery clinic. You need the proper training and licensure. But if you're going to college for a "______ studies" degree, or liberal arts, or to embark on a platform of "social justice," you are wasting your time and money. If you want to learn about any of this stuff, you should take advantage of your free local public library. It's all there, and the only cost to learn this stuff is your time. There is simply no need to fork over $40k every year to listen to professors drone on about their perception of "injustices" in the world. Let some other sucker hand over his hard earned money for that.
Learning how to be a carpenter, plumber, or electrician can be very profitable. HVAC technicians are also in demand. And there's nothing wrong with learning the science behind botany and agriculture, or selling real estate.
Life is linear, think long-term. Think about goods and services that people want and use. Think about the degrees and/or job training programs that can put you in a position to help you provide those things.
The bottom line is that a degree in 17th Century Cambodian Dance Theory won't stop an overflowing toilet, won't repair an air conditioner, doesn't put a roof over anyone's head, and isn't on anyone's Christmas list.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 70 |
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,734 |
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squigglysquid
Science has always been my passion, and I was thinking about marine biology. What do you guys think?
I love the interest in marine biology but neither of the two people I know who majored in it have careers in it now. One is a teacher in a foreign country and the other works an office job. It may be that the lifestyle didn't fit either of them or there aren't that many jobs available so recommending doing research on the career prospects first for now and in the future, also expected salary, etc.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,734 |
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StudioFiftyFour
But if you're going to college for a "______ studies" degree, or liberal arts, or to embark on a platform of "social justice," you are wasting your time and money. If you want to learn about any of this stuff, you should take advantage of your free local public library. It's all there, and the only cost to learn this stuff is your time. There is simply no need to fork over $40k every year to listen to professors drone on about their perception of "injustices" in the world. Let some other sucker hand over his hard earned money for that.
I had more than one professor who spent all class time talking about his problems rather than teaching. One in particular did it every class until the last 5 minutes when he would dole out an assignment. Also before a mid-term and final he'd actually review the material. Essentially he was being paid to force an audience to be captive to his problems. A friend of mine had the best grade in class and went to Europe for a week which meant she missed his class several times. He failed anyone who missed more than 3 classes and she was failed.
He was a waste but by the time you realize how a professor is it can be difficult to impossible to receive a refund. A library card would have been a much higher value than he was.
There are also lots of core requirements in college which in some instances have little to no value.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,843 |
I kind of ran into this problem when I was at Breed Hills High School too. The problem there is that BH had so many kids, we used up all of the "slots" at the area vocational technical school that not everyone who wanted to go could. I was interested in electronics, but there was the issue that my dad, a dentist with the VA, did not want me to be a "smoking, swearing, drunk blue collar worker" because he was one when the worked in an aluminum plant and his father was an alcoholic carpenter. A think a lot of parents are afraid of the life style than the actual skill. Oh, I have notice most people in trades tend to talk about how they do it "for when they come home to their kids". I now have an HVAC certification buy have run into age discrimination now.
When my 12 years younger brother (the one who is now an alcoholic with not long to live) wanted to be an auto mechanic, my folks had to lobby the principal at BHHS to let him go to the Vo tech. He did and worked as a mechanic for a while before joining the Air Force.
As for the "smoking, swearing, drinking to drunk, I do it for the kids" culture, I find it, in my experience to be worse in the food service industry for some reason.
When my 12 years younger brother (the one who is now an alcoholic with not long to live) wanted to be an auto mechanic, my folks had to lobby the principal at BHHS to let him go to the Vo tech. He did and worked as a mechanic for a while before joining the Air Force.
As for the "smoking, swearing, drinking to drunk, I do it for the kids" culture, I find it, in my experience to be worse in the food service industry for some reason.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 2,070 |
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,734 |
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mr. neptune
I kind of ran into this problem when I was at Breed Hills High School too. The problem there is that BH had so many kids, we used up all of the "slots" at the area vocational technical school that not everyone who wanted to go could. I was interested in electronics, but there was the issue that my dad, a dentist with the VA, did not want me to be a "smoking, swearing, drunk blue collar worker" because he was one when the worked in an aluminum plant and his father was an alcoholic carpenter. A think a lot of parents are afraid of the life style than the actual skill. Oh, I have notice most people in trades tend to talk about how they do it "for when they come home to their kids". I now have an HVAC certification buy have run into age discrimination now.Quote
What do they expect, they seemed to even name it after breeders?
I've heard tow truck drivers typically earn six figures, not that I envy their on-call lifestyle. Drinking seems to be popular with most people, regardless of profession. And it seems a healthy portion of society that drink become alcoholics regardless of work background.
Also people in general are comfortable around people who are similar to them so if a person lives a different lifestyle then he or she is probably chided about it constantly by others who buy into the Lifescript. Many moos and duhs can't fathom anyone who doesn't also want to be a moo or duh.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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freya
I had more than one professor who spent all class time talking about his problems rather than teaching. One in particular did it every class until the last 5 minutes when he would dole out an assignment. Also before a mid-term and final he'd actually review the material. Essentially he was being paid to force an audience to be captive to his problems. A friend of mine had the best grade in class and went to Europe for a week which meant she missed his class several times. He failed anyone who missed more than 3 classes and she was failed.
He was a waste but by the time you realize how a professor is it can be difficult to impossible to receive a refund. A library card would have been a much higher value than he was.
There are also lots of core requirements in college which in some instances have little to no value.
Absolutely true. And sadly, your experience isn't a unique one.
I can tell you that years ago I was in graduate school, which usually lends itself to much smaller class sizes. At the beginning of every semester, my classes would require that you introduce yourself and your background. Naturally people droned on and on about themselves and their families. Their opening statement would be something along the lines of how they were working their way through grad school but more important was their family... then they'd state the ages of all of their children and talk about how hard it was to raise them while going to school... then they'd talk about their kids' ballet lessons... and sports teams... and they'd go on... and on... and on...
As you can expect, I found that completely annoying. Fear of getting a bad grade was the only thing that kept me from saying, "Listen, let's be real for a moment here: I don't give a shit about your family and you don't give a shit about me. So let's just get down to brass tacks and have the professor do the lecture so we can learn the subject at hand, because that's what we paid for anyway. Deal?"
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,734 |
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StudioFiftyFour
Absolutely true. And sadly, your experience isn't a unique one.
I can tell you that years ago I was in graduate school, which usually lends itself to much smaller class sizes. At the beginning of every semester, my classes would require that you introduce yourself and your background. Naturally people droned on and on about themselves and their families. Their opening statement would be something along the lines of how they were working their way through grad school but more important was their family... then they'd state the ages of all of their children and talk about how hard it was to raise them while going to school... then they'd talk about their kids' ballet lessons... and sports teams... and they'd go on... and on... and on...
As you can expect, I found that completely annoying. Fear of getting a bad grade was the only thing that kept me from saying, "Listen, let's be real for a moment here: I don't give a shit about your family and you don't give a shit about me. So let's just get down to brass tacks and have the professor do the lecture so we can learn the subject at hand, because that's what we paid for anyway. Deal?"
After about age 25 it seems to be par for the course, perhaps that is the majority age where most people have at least one kid? I recall some class mommie intros in my freshman year of college though. The best part is those women would self-quarantine themselves together where they could click their tongues and shake their heads at the behavior of the mostly unencumbered students around them. Never mind that by the time most of the students reach the age of the mommies they will have graduated college and not be older freshman parents. Those women were also choke full of excuses for missing class and turning in assignments late and the excuse was always the same.
The minute a person can announce "we're pregnant" is the turning point in their lives where any introduction will always involve excessive droning about their kids and how famblee is most important.
I also dread any mass introduction: school, work or otherwise because once you cross the threshold of age 25 it is always the same! And like you said, who gives a shit? Let's do what we paid for or are being paid for!
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,843 |
Actually, I name it Breed Hills, it is actually another Hills name, so as not to give away the actual name.
Also, it is the younger brother auto mechanic who later went to college to become an electrical engineer who is now the alcoholic near the end of his life even though he is much younger than me, that is a long, long story of drama.
I agree that anyone regardless of profession can fall into too much drinking but I do think some industries are worse than others. Younger brother really had a problem with alcohol starting when he was in the military and he receives help through the VA because it is "service connected" and I find a lot of alcoholism in the food industry (its right there and its a high stress job). I hear chefs are among the worst to treat for alcohol abuse because they go right back into that environment after recovering. If I am wrong, correct me.
But I want to make the point that some parents, like mine, don't want their kids in a trade because of the "swearing, smokin', drunk" culture and its hard to tell your parents you want to be part of it by learning a trade.
Also, it is the younger brother auto mechanic who later went to college to become an electrical engineer who is now the alcoholic near the end of his life even though he is much younger than me, that is a long, long story of drama.
I agree that anyone regardless of profession can fall into too much drinking but I do think some industries are worse than others. Younger brother really had a problem with alcohol starting when he was in the military and he receives help through the VA because it is "service connected" and I find a lot of alcoholism in the food industry (its right there and its a high stress job). I hear chefs are among the worst to treat for alcohol abuse because they go right back into that environment after recovering. If I am wrong, correct me.
But I want to make the point that some parents, like mine, don't want their kids in a trade because of the "swearing, smokin', drunk" culture and its hard to tell your parents you want to be part of it by learning a trade.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,734 |
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mr. neptune
Actually, I name it Breed Hills, it is actually another Hills name, so as not to give away the actual name.
Also, it is the younger brother auto mechanic who later went to college to become an electrical engineer who is now the alcoholic near the end of his life even though he is much younger than me, that is a long, long story of drama.
I agree that anyone regardless of profession can fall into too much drinking but I do think some industries are worse than others. Younger brother really had a problem with alcohol starting when he was in the military and he receives help through the VA because it is "service connected" and I find a lot of alcoholism in the food industry (its right there and its a high stress job). I hear chefs are among the worst to treat for alcohol abuse because they go right back into that environment after recovering. If I am wrong, correct me.
But I want to make the point that some parents, like mine, don't want their kids in a trade because of the "swearing, smokin', drunk" culture and its hard to tell your parents you want to be part of it by learning a trade.
I like the fictitious name you chose for the school. I can speak as a former military wife, most people in the military swear, smoke and drink. Not sure about chefs...the few I worked around long ago were mostly pot smokers. I heard the same sentiment from my parents about learning a trade. They didn't mention the kids who learned a trade in high school were also the ones who wouldn't be eating ramen noodles or working two jobs in their early 20's.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 08, 2016 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 379 |
IME, military and electricians swear the most. Chefs and food industry are the biggest drinkers.
I spent my life around military and picked up and used swear words early and often. My moo is a snob and said only crude low class people swear. I said Colonel Rodriguez swore more than grandpa (ex Navy and retired electrician), and he graduated from the Air Force Academy and received a special commendation from the President.
When I went to high school vocational training was only available at the fuck up school, aka the alternative school for teen moos and duhs plus students with major problems. Even then it was auto shop or welding for boys and cosmetology or day care for girls. There was huge pressure to go to college.
I spent my life around military and picked up and used swear words early and often. My moo is a snob and said only crude low class people swear. I said Colonel Rodriguez swore more than grandpa (ex Navy and retired electrician), and he graduated from the Air Force Academy and received a special commendation from the President.
When I went to high school vocational training was only available at the fuck up school, aka the alternative school for teen moos and duhs plus students with major problems. Even then it was auto shop or welding for boys and cosmetology or day care for girls. There was huge pressure to go to college.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,441 |
Vocational training wouldn't have suited me at all, because school and books were never a burden but a joy for me. But there were always plenty of people in my classes who were only there because they thought they should be, and had no passion for or comprehension of the topic, and as a student I hated how they slowed down the pace. Beyond achieving a certain level of competency expected in an educated society (hopefully achieved before adulthood), I don't see any point in education for the sake of status. The US university bubble is overdue for a burst.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,843 |
Yurble, it seems in this country it is a strong either/or element to vo-tech/college. I think maybe in Europe, teens learn more in general maybe than we do. Example of this is my 2 cousins from the Republic of Ireland who came to visit us. They were both hairdressers which they learned over there and were kind of "burnouts" who smoked cigarettes and watched our soap operas all day, yet they both said "ohw but we had to lerwn that Twiginometwry, it was so hawwd but we know it" in their Irish accents. Most vo-tech students in Breed Hills don't know algebra so 2 burnout girls who can barely cut haur know more math than we do.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 1,231 |
When i was of school age and living in Eastern Europe, my parents pushed me and my sister to go to university. Vocational schools were and are still very bad looked upon and usually kids are being taught that only having a university degree and a white-collar job is respectable. You have no idea how many times when i got any other grade than maximum/acceptable (in Romania 10 is maximum and let's say 9 is acceptable) it was such a drama in my family. I was threatened that i'll end up cleaning and at the grocery store or in any other "dirty" blue-collar job.
At one point i was so sick of my parents pushing me for top grades and i told them i want to become a truck driver, i don't need any degrees. My mom looked me straight in the eye and said she'd kill me. I'm not joking.
There you can get plenty of degrees if you have money because we have lots of private universities. I was never against vocational schools but i have to admit in my home country, those are really the bottom. People who usually go there are let's say not that bright and even if i wanted to go, i don't think i'd have managed among them. My high school was near a vocational school and i remember that the guys from the vocational school harassed girls so much, sometimes i had to call my dad to pick me up because i didn't want hands between my legs or on my breasts.
I had two friends who went to vocational school because they wanted to but had a hard time with both colleagues and teachers. Their problem? They were women in male-dominated fields. They had to hear on a regular basis that women are not good at that, wtf are you doing here - go to a cooking program plus sexual harassment. One of them gave up and went to university.
I really liked going to university and studying but if i had been born in Finland where i live now, i'd have chosen university of applied sciences. It is more practical than university but higher than vocational school. Also vocational schools here are very good and if the shit really hits the fan, i will consider joining one of their programs. I have nothing against vocational schools and blue-collar jobs. I worked in these jobs and i respect people who do them. Somebody needs to do these jobs anyways.
At one point i was so sick of my parents pushing me for top grades and i told them i want to become a truck driver, i don't need any degrees. My mom looked me straight in the eye and said she'd kill me. I'm not joking.
There you can get plenty of degrees if you have money because we have lots of private universities. I was never against vocational schools but i have to admit in my home country, those are really the bottom. People who usually go there are let's say not that bright and even if i wanted to go, i don't think i'd have managed among them. My high school was near a vocational school and i remember that the guys from the vocational school harassed girls so much, sometimes i had to call my dad to pick me up because i didn't want hands between my legs or on my breasts.
I had two friends who went to vocational school because they wanted to but had a hard time with both colleagues and teachers. Their problem? They were women in male-dominated fields. They had to hear on a regular basis that women are not good at that, wtf are you doing here - go to a cooking program plus sexual harassment. One of them gave up and went to university.
I really liked going to university and studying but if i had been born in Finland where i live now, i'd have chosen university of applied sciences. It is more practical than university but higher than vocational school. Also vocational schools here are very good and if the shit really hits the fan, i will consider joining one of their programs. I have nothing against vocational schools and blue-collar jobs. I worked in these jobs and i respect people who do them. Somebody needs to do these jobs anyways.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,441 |
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mr. neptune
Yurble, it seems in this country it is a strong either/or element to vo-tech/college. I think maybe in Europe, teens learn more in general maybe than we do.
Depends on the country, the person, and so on. But certainly in some countries, not having a university degree isn't looked down on the way it seems to be in the US.
I fully admit it, I have no interest in non-intellectuals as friends or potential partners. I look down on people like that as well. By intellectuals I mean people who are curious about the world around them and who try to learn new things for the pleasure of it. As far as I can tell, there's no real relationship between attending university and thinking; plenty of people attend university without ever having an original thought, while plenty of intelligent and curious people find formal education doesn't suit them.
From the sounds of it, I'd look down on your cousins, not because they are hairdressers, but because they sound like really boring people.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,895 |
As most on this board know, I am an engineer and I plan on going to graduate school in the next few years because it would double my salary. That being said, I went to a state university and graduated only a few grand in debt because I had scholarships and generous parents. I could have gone to one of the top engineering schools in the world on a damn good scholarship but would have graduated 80k in debt. It was so not worth it just for the name alone.
With regards to vocational school some of the people I meet who have the best cars are plumbers and welders. They can make obscene amounts of money if they are good. My auto mechanic is one of the most intelligent and well spoken people I have ever met even though he is permanently covered in grease and oil.
So for an intelligent person who doesn't have the resources to attend college vocational training is a good idea. Or for someone who doesn't feel that college is the right path. Besides, if they decide to get a degree when they are older that only means that they would have had time to save money and would study what is important to them. It would not have been the right path for me due to my personality and because I had a huge ass scholarship.
To the person interested in marine biology, I would say to look into underwater welding. They make in the six figures and only work half of the year. It would be dangerous and isolating but you would make enough money to save it up to be able to pay for your degree in cash. It would also make you more marketable as a marine biologist because you would know the technical side of running an expedition and you would have all of the required certifications to do a lot of field research.
With regards to vocational school some of the people I meet who have the best cars are plumbers and welders. They can make obscene amounts of money if they are good. My auto mechanic is one of the most intelligent and well spoken people I have ever met even though he is permanently covered in grease and oil.
So for an intelligent person who doesn't have the resources to attend college vocational training is a good idea. Or for someone who doesn't feel that college is the right path. Besides, if they decide to get a degree when they are older that only means that they would have had time to save money and would study what is important to them. It would not have been the right path for me due to my personality and because I had a huge ass scholarship.
To the person interested in marine biology, I would say to look into underwater welding. They make in the six figures and only work half of the year. It would be dangerous and isolating but you would make enough money to save it up to be able to pay for your degree in cash. It would also make you more marketable as a marine biologist because you would know the technical side of running an expedition and you would have all of the required certifications to do a lot of field research.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,735 |
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StudioFiftyFour
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freya
I had more than one professor who spent all class time talking about his problems rather than teaching. One in particular did it every class until the last 5 minutes when he would dole out an assignment. Also before a mid-term and final he'd actually review the material. Essentially he was being paid to force an audience to be captive to his problems. A friend of mine had the best grade in class and went to Europe for a week which meant she missed his class several times. He failed anyone who missed more than 3 classes and she was failed.
He was a waste but by the time you realize how a professor is it can be difficult to impossible to receive a refund. A library card would have been a much higher value than he was.
There are also lots of core requirements in college which in some instances have little to no value.
Absolutely true. And sadly, your experience isn't a unique one.
I can tell you that years ago I was in graduate school, which usually lends itself to much smaller class sizes. At the beginning of every semester, my classes would require that you introduce yourself and your background. Naturally people droned on and on about themselves and their families. Their opening statement would be something along the lines of how they were working their way through grad school but more important was their family... then they'd state the ages of all of their children and talk about how hard it was to raise them while going to school... then they'd talk about their kids' ballet lessons... and sports teams... and they'd go on... and on... and on...
As you can expect, I found that completely annoying. Fear of getting a bad grade was the only thing that kept me from saying, "Listen, let's be real for a moment here: I don't give a shit about your family and you don't give a shit about me. So let's just get down to brass tacks and have the professor do the lecture so we can learn the subject at hand, because that's what we paid for anyway. Deal?"
Let me guess ... most of the students in your graduate school class wound up not doing anything with the Masters/PhD degree they earned.
You know - like the professional office - graduate school really is not the place to be discussing one's crotchfruit nor fambaleees. Instead the students should be interested in career goals, research ideas, and such.
And like Marie Curie once said:
"Be less curious about people and more curious about ideas."
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,843 |
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yurble
From the sounds of it, I'd look down on your cousins, not because they are hairdressers, but because they sound like really boring people.
Well you got that right, all they did was put the dog out (that helped) but mostly it was smoke cigarettes and watch soap operas. Oh, I was going to get a new job at the time and was nervous about it. One of them told me, "why don't you just go on the dole?" so I guess they were not shy about not working either.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,843 |
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 09, 2016 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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selidororous
Let me guess ... most of the students in your graduate school class wound up not doing anything with the Masters/PhD degree they earned.
You know - like the professional office - graduate school really is not the place to be discussing one's crotchfruit nor fambaleees. Instead the students should be interested in career goals, research ideas, and such.
And like Marie Curie once said:
"Be less curious about people and more curious about ideas."
Well, maybe I'm following in the thought patterns of Marie Curie because truthfully, I don't keep in touch with anyone from grad school nor do I know what they are doing.
I suspect that I wasn't alone. There were probably plenty of students who simply wanted to learn the material, do the research, and move on. Listening to everyone's life story at the beginning of every semester was a huge waste of time. It took at least 1/2 hour out of the first class--multiply that by 12 classes and you're talking about 6 hours of completely wasted time. I know I wasn't the only one who felt this way. The trouble is, everyone is afraid of speaking up as they'll be perceived as a cynical curmudgeon.
As an aside, I'm also a dickhead when it comes to "team building" retreats that have become en vogue in so many offices. There is absolutely no need to blindfold people and have others lead them around, or fall into each others arms to build trust.
If I'm focused, and I'm dedicated, and I'm committed to the mission of the organization... then why do I need to do this crap?
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 10, 2016 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 1,231 |
I was so lucky not to have these people blabbering about their kids in classes or worse, bringing their kids to lectures. There were few exceptions though and one really pissed me off. Once a teacher brought her two kids at the lecture and one of the kids started running around the lecture hall, crawling between students' legs and talk in front of the whole class. The lecture was interrupted so many times i lost the count. Needless to say i didn't get anything from it.
Vocational schools are even worse because having a more flexible schedule, people from a wide age range join them and you will get babies and toadlers at the courses or the inevitable baby talk. DH went to vocational school and when they had to offer examples or do assignments, women always brought their kids into the discussion.
Vocational schools are even worse because having a more flexible schedule, people from a wide age range join them and you will get babies and toadlers at the courses or the inevitable baby talk. DH went to vocational school and when they had to offer examples or do assignments, women always brought their kids into the discussion.
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Re: Special snowflake angels too good for vocational training September 10, 2016 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 3,454 |
I see it all in a slightly different way. Many vocational jobs are now being performed by people who immigrated to the USA. We do not have so many people going to college because there are easier and better paying vocational jobs out there. We have people going to college because there are not that many blue collar jobs left. People often attack higher education and student loans and they do have a valid case. But looking at overall statistics, unemployment rate is lower for those with college degrees than for those without.
For some, engineering and accounting is what they are good at. For others, there are other options which often have good outcome. Call it what you will, we are a nation of immigrants and jobs that do not require higher education are usually performed by immigrants - that is the reality.
For me, personally, I would rather take a chance on higher education and end up employed at a stable company than try a vocation and be replaced by someone who is willing to work for a lot less. In a blue collar job, there is just too much competition. Very few blue collar jobs pay six digits. How many offer company car for personal use, good bonuses and and REAL profit sharing? Yes, someone has to do blue collar jobs and someone always will. But those who try will be unemployed more often than those who pursue college education. In our current economy, those who work the most and the hardest, they don't always get rewarded appropriately. More often than not, inverse is true.
This article below makes a case for Liberal Arts. They just may be onto something:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/02/meet-the-parents-who-wont-let-their-children-study-literature/?utm_term=.a2839dd475ff
ETA: Having a Liberal Arts major is not for everyone. Developing critical thinking, challenging conventional wisdom and being inventive are very important skills that Liberal Arts offer. Having such skills is important across almost all areas of study. We don't have to spend $100k on a Liberal Arts degree. But it is very helpful to possess the skills that Liberal Arts teach, no matter how we aquire them, even if we do it by "investing" in a library card.
We often hear about people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, pointing to how these people started and what they did without having formal education. One thing that is often forgotten that while these men had no formal education they had the knowledge that formal education offers. They used innovation, critical thinking and challenge to conventional wisdom to create what they did. Not going to school, to them, did not mean zero education. It meant a different kind of education, in a way that they saw would take them to new levels.
I am a techie and that's the way I have always been. My circle of friends includes people who majored in art, history and humanities. I absolutely love spending time with those people. Not only do they benefit from the technical knowledge that I am able to share with them, their knowledge has developed a whole new way of seeing things and thinking about things for me. I am able to take myself not only to the whole new levels, I am finding out about things that I never knew have existed.
For some, engineering and accounting is what they are good at. For others, there are other options which often have good outcome. Call it what you will, we are a nation of immigrants and jobs that do not require higher education are usually performed by immigrants - that is the reality.
For me, personally, I would rather take a chance on higher education and end up employed at a stable company than try a vocation and be replaced by someone who is willing to work for a lot less. In a blue collar job, there is just too much competition. Very few blue collar jobs pay six digits. How many offer company car for personal use, good bonuses and and REAL profit sharing? Yes, someone has to do blue collar jobs and someone always will. But those who try will be unemployed more often than those who pursue college education. In our current economy, those who work the most and the hardest, they don't always get rewarded appropriately. More often than not, inverse is true.
This article below makes a case for Liberal Arts. They just may be onto something:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/02/meet-the-parents-who-wont-let-their-children-study-literature/?utm_term=.a2839dd475ff
ETA: Having a Liberal Arts major is not for everyone. Developing critical thinking, challenging conventional wisdom and being inventive are very important skills that Liberal Arts offer. Having such skills is important across almost all areas of study. We don't have to spend $100k on a Liberal Arts degree. But it is very helpful to possess the skills that Liberal Arts teach, no matter how we aquire them, even if we do it by "investing" in a library card.
We often hear about people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, pointing to how these people started and what they did without having formal education. One thing that is often forgotten that while these men had no formal education they had the knowledge that formal education offers. They used innovation, critical thinking and challenge to conventional wisdom to create what they did. Not going to school, to them, did not mean zero education. It meant a different kind of education, in a way that they saw would take them to new levels.
I am a techie and that's the way I have always been. My circle of friends includes people who majored in art, history and humanities. I absolutely love spending time with those people. Not only do they benefit from the technical knowledge that I am able to share with them, their knowledge has developed a whole new way of seeing things and thinking about things for me. I am able to take myself not only to the whole new levels, I am finding out about things that I never knew have existed.
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