2149 - Liberal Males

I hate to say this, but men wanting babies without having to do any of the work crosses all "colors" of the political spectrum. It has been this way since the beginning of time, and probably will never change. It's what's expected and accepted. Man make money, woman make baby...ugh.

I don't think she was saying that it doesn't cross all ends of the political spectrum.

I can definitely see her point about some men who profess to be so "liberated" in their thinking. Based upon my relationship history, I'm very wary of guys who can't wait to tell me how liberated they are and how they are "for equal rights" for women. Take my one ex, for example. His mom was a Fundy Catholic who never used birth control and stayed home to raise her 7 keeedz. (Observation: No question, You are a breeder extraordinairre if you are pregnant at the same time your daughter is pregnant.)

He was very quick to tell me how his mother worked like a slave and he didn't want that for his partner. But it was very hard for him to overcome growing up being waited on hand and foot. He didn't even know how to buy fruits and vegetables or cook for himself.

When we lived together, it quickly became apparent that "liberated" meant that I could also support him if he got tired of his job. (It never came to that because we broke up.) Equality to him meant that I was supposed to look great, pull down $50k per year and still have time to keep the house clean and cook meals. Er, no thanks.

I look at it the same way I look at Christianity. When someone can't wait to tell me how "Christian" they are, I watch my back. Nine times out of ten, they end up stabbing me in the back while they think I am not looking.

Same with guys who can't wait to tell me how "liberated" they are. They usually turn out to be lazy turds.

Bell_Flower, you are cracking me up! That is some funny shit. The old traditional stereotype is that the woman does all the work at home and the man earns a paycheck away from home. Your "liberated" guy only seemed to have liberated himself from the earning-the-paycheck part of it. Now that sounds liberating, indeed! Ha!

I think a truly equality-minded guy doesn't need to protesteth so much. You will find that more in someone who is used to living by himself, doing everything for himself at home AND earning his own paycheck. This is true for women as well. The ones who are used to having to take care of themselves completely will totally appreciate it when someone else does something for them and not take it for granted. They already know how much work it is.

if a woman wants to stay home, and do nothing, and expects a man to work and pay for everything she is liberated, but when a man does it in the same situation, the man is a loser.

a marriage is about a partnership, i cook reasonably well, rowan cooks much better, she cant clean cat mess up, i can.. if she wanted to stay at home and i work, then that would be ok, so long as she kept the house ok, if she wanted to go out to work and i wanted to stay home.. is that wrong.. i would cook and clean and do all that job..

the old traditional stereotype has something going for it, a sharing of effort, rather than one person sitting at home doing bugger all (i am not saying women have to stay home, i am saying if one partner wants to and the other agrees, then whats the problem) its when they dont do anything thats the problem.

i have heard stories of a man going to work, then coming home and the wife puts the kids onto the man and lets him look after them, she doesnt do much, he cooks and cleans and does everything.. they are equally as bad as these selfish men.

MARRIAGE should be about sharing, one cooks while one works, one cleans when one is too tired.. sharing..

sexism is rife when it comes to men staying home, the ones who do cook and clean, they are considered by many women to be losers, yet when its the woman who chooses to stay home they are applauded.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Mercurior, to explain a little further, my ex was bored and frustrated in his job. At the time, we were living in a two family building and we had rent coming in from the other unit. The cost of living in our town was pretty low. (This was almost 20 years ago.)

He always wanted to be an architect so I said, okay, I will support that if you have a plan. Start taking night courses, take what you can, then when it's time to go full-time I will support that effort. We even took some math classes together so he could prepare for the program. He quit after one class because he said I was smarter than he was in math. (Not really, I just did my homework.) He really didn't want to put the work in.

I mean, what a deal. If I had someone to support me and I was younger, so I could go to medical or law school, I would have jumped at the chance. As it is now, I have 20+ years at the same job. I need to leave with something.

I have no problem if one person stays home and it's agreeable to the couple. In the case above, it was not agreeable to me. I wanted him to either work or be training for a job he liked better. (This isn't counting taking a couple of months off to relax.)

He was a healthy, 27 year old man. I think someone that age should be working, or training for a job, regardless of gender. I feel this way about people in general due to my own life lessons. My father died suddenly at age 35. My mom, a homemaker who had a high school education, was left to take care of both of us. I always knew I would work. I don't think it's wise to depend on someone else to take care of you. My mom and Dad had a very stable marriage. Nobody expects a healthy man to drop dead.

Those are my personal standards. Note: I am not nasty and judgemental if another couple chooses otherwise. I see what you say about women. I personally don't think it's wise for any woman to stay out of the work force for an extended period of time when she has kids. However, it's their life. I might wonder what happens if they break up but that's not my business.

i wasnt having a go at you, i was just saying what some other people think.. i know there are male losers, and there are female losers..

its equally valid for a man who stays out of the work force, but i wasnt havign a go at you, and what happened, i speak in generalities most of the time..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

bell_flower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mercurior, to explain a little further, my ex was
> bored and frustrated in his job. At the time, we
> were living in a two family building and we had
> rent coming in from the other unit. The cost of
> living in our town was pretty low. (This was
> almost 20 years ago.)
>
> He always wanted to be an architect so I said,
> okay, I will support that if you have a plan.
> Start taking night courses, take what you can,
> then when it's time to go full-time I will support
> that effort. We even took some math classes
> together so he could prepare for the program. He
> quit after one class because he said I was smarter
> than he was in math. (Not really, I just did my
> homework.) He really didn't want to put the work
> in.
>
> I mean, what a deal. If I had someone to support
> me and I was younger, so I could go to medical or
> law school, I would have jumped at the chance. As
> it is now, I have 20+ years at the same job. I
> need to leave with something.
>
> I have no problem if one person stays home and
> it's agreeable to the couple. In the case above,
> it was not agreeable to me. I wanted him to
> either work or be training for a job he liked
> better. (This isn't counting taking a couple of
> months off to relax.)
>
> He was a healthy, 27 year old man. I think
> someone that age should be working, or training
> for a job, regardless of gender. I feel this way
> about people in general due to my own life
> lessons. My father died suddenly at age 35. My
> mom, a homemaker who had a high school education,
> was left to take care of both of us. I always
> knew I would work. I don't think it's wise to
> depend on someone else to take care of you. My
> mom and Dad had a very stable marriage. Nobody
> expects a healthy man to drop dead.
>
> Those are my personal standards. Note: I am not
> nasty and judgemental if another couple chooses
> otherwise. I see what you say about women. I
> personally don't think it's wise for any woman to
> stay out of the work force for an extended period
> of time when she has kids. However, it's their
> life. I might wonder what happens if they break
> up but that's not my business.


I am the poster of the rant. My hopefully soon-to-be ex pulled how he was too sick to go to work and got assistance. That took two years while I worked my ass off. He did not want baybees not that I would have caved in but he grated about feminism and abortion rights despite ME being the one who supported his fucking ass. After he gets his disability, this man decided he wanted to get his college degree. Never mind that school costs money which meant less for the household expenses. My soon-to-be former husband hates the President and goes on how he is so liberal but he is just another one who was bored with working and feels women are too "uppity".

I did leave...something this man thought I would never do, Bell_Flower, I used to post as India_Darshan so we spoke sort-of on this issue before. Mercurior, I know you mean no harm and speak in generalizations but PLEASE be careful before making generalizations and supporting males who do this to women. Like Bell_Flower, I think ANY woman -- childfree or with children -- is crazy to not work and have a man support her even if the marriage is great. I know too well how life can drastically change. Even the best relationship can end and the woman is fucked financially after staying at home all of those years.

A person supporting a mate through school is also not wise regardless of gender. I wasted seven years of my life and did not come out ahead financially or re: profession. This man was quick to say how I could also "better myself". Easy for him to say when I worked so he could stay home and study or watch TV. I never expected to do this but it sort of happened when this ass claimed we could afford it on his benefits. I basically was too trusting and got hosed.

"FUCK WORK"

bell_flower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same with guys who can't wait to tell me how
> "liberated" they are. They usually turn out to be
> lazy turds.

I am also now very wary of males who claim to be so "liberal" when it comes to women. They usually want a mommy, nurse maid, and a sex partner all in one while the woman does everything else for him. Most lefty pro-choice males usually carry those views when they do not want to marry or be forced to pay child support. I worked with a guy who claimed to be pro-choice but said a woman better not abort his baby. You can imagine what I said to him...

Mercurior, I do not view any woman who elects to be a stay-at-home wife regardless of her childed or non-childed status to be liberated. Like Bell_Flower says, it is not my business how each couple handles their lives in this manner. I feel any woman who does not work when she is able and depends on a man is foolish because death can happen at any time and even the best marriages end.

"FUCK WORK"

I am VERY left-of-center, but I married a Republican. (We'll, he's not a Republican anymore because I talked some sense into him, but he is still more conservative than I am on most issues.)

Most of the men I dated when I lived in NYC were left-of-center politically too, and all except one were VERY cheap when it comes to money, preferring to spend it on themselves rather than me or us. It might be just an NY thing rather than a political thing, but most of my dating experiences followed this pattern:

First date: guy will pick up the check, even if I offer to split the check.
Second date: we split the check (no problem here)
3 months into the relationship: we split everything (no problem here)
6 months into the relationship, guy complains about everything costing money, he is broke, he doesn't want to go out and spend money, blah blah. Which means if I want us to go out, I pay for both of us.
Meanwhile, the guy buys himself a new computer or a house or a vacation with his buddies to some exotic location.
Birthdays: I go all out to get him a really wonderful, expensive gift. He buys me a cheap scarf or cheap pair of earrings, or if I'm lucky, takes me out to dinner.

I don't mind going Dutch or paying more than my share if the other person is unemployed or struggling, but these were men making more money than I did, or living off an inheritance.

I agree that there are definitely men out there who take advantage of feminists, at least when it comes to the money issue!

but equally there are women who take advantage of men, men who take advantage of women. why is one group treated differently.

i have seen women complain that the man does nothing, (he cooks and cleans and looks after the kids), yet in a almost exact duplicate, the woman stays at home, does nothing, they get applauded..

this happens. one group isnt automatically superior to the other, BOTH groups have people who act the same way.. thats my point.

but a lot of women assume that a man who stays home is a loser, yet the woman staying home is to be applauded.. imagine if you worked and your significant other stayed home, and did all the cooking and cleaning etc.. how would other people react to that situation..

yes iagree with u amethusos* , but then again you are not like many women, (i mean that in the good way). but there is a double standard amongst a lot of women. which it totally unfair. (and scorp there are also women who take advantage of a mans income as well)

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

CFScorpio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am VERY left-of-center, but I married a
> Republican. (We'll, he's not a Republican anymore
> because I talked some sense into him, but he is
> still more conservative than I am on most
> issues.)
>
> Most of the men I dated when I lived in NYC were
> left-of-center politically too, and all except one
> were VERY cheap when it comes to money, preferring
> to spend it on themselves rather than me or us. It
> might be just an NY thing rather than a political
> thing, but most of my dating experiences followed
> this pattern:
>
> First date: guy will pick up the check, even if I
> offer to split the check.
> Second date: we split the check (no problem here)
> 3 months into the relationship: we split
> everything (no problem here)
> 6 months into the relationship, guy complains
> about everything costing money, he is broke, he
> doesn't want to go out and spend money, blah blah.
> Which means if I want us to go out, I pay for both
> of us.
> Meanwhile, the guy buys himself a new computer or
> a house or a vacation with his buddies to some
> exotic location.
> Birthdays: I go all out to get him a really
> wonderful, expensive gift. He buys me a cheap
> scarf or cheap pair of earrings, or if I'm lucky,
> takes me out to dinner.
>
> I don't mind going Dutch or paying more than my
> share if the other person is unemployed or
> struggling, but these were men making more money
> than I did, or living off an inheritance.
>
> I agree that there are definitely men out there
> who take advantage of feminists, at least when it
> comes to the money issue!

Mercurior is correct how many women take advantage of men. I do agree with you about lefty males. Going with another left-of-the-center man again. There is no fucking way will I allow the same to happen to me again. CFScorpio, you are 100% correct how they appear to be economically responsible and then complain about being so broke. It ain't a NYC thing!

My soon-to-be ex-husband: bitched about no money yet got a laptop and jewelry for himself while *I* paid the majority of the household bills. They are as bad as pro-life males but tout equality just to get laid or a hard-working liberal female to support their asses. The free ride is over. I am now only responsible for myself. Karma made a payback to a "certain someone".

As for birthdays or Whore Day...er, I mean "Valentine's Day", I do not want gifts from a man. I will buy a male a present if I feel like it but do not want the same. I know the feeling of going all-out for a liberal man for b-day or Shitmas only to be shat on when it came to me. As for Whore Day, I do NOT need a man to buy me a tennis bracelet or other shiny stones just because I have sex with him. If I want something, I work for it and buy it myself.

"FUCK WORK"

a lot of men see women taking advantage of them, and they are giving up.. its no excuse. but i can see how some of the men justify it..to themselves at least..

i dont condone it, but i can see how some of them justify it.

but it does seem like a double standard in some cases.

i am an old fashioned man, i want to pay for stuff, it feels wrong to me to not pay.. but thats just me

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Mercurior, no woman took $$$ advantage of my soon-to-be former husband. He did the same to his first wife from what I learned. He is just an entitlement-minded person who wanted a mommy and a nurse maid. His only reaction when I left was, "She did it all...now I have to do for myself!" Boo-fucking-hoo! :bawl

"FUCK WORK"

i know not in your case.. please read what i said, i said

***a lot of men see women taking advantage of them, and they are giving up.. its no excuse. but i can see how some of the men justify it..to themselves at least..

i dont condone it, but i can see how some of them justify it.**

some men say that, not all, some men are scum.. and losers.. i agree with that.. i sent a pm to you amethusos* to explain a bit more..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (and scorp
> there are also women who take advantage of a mans
> income as well)

That's true, but that's a whole different subject. I have never been one of those women, and I've also never been attracted to men who pay for everything, because I feel like they want to control me.

but you must admit there are women out there who do just that, a lot of the exceptions to this generality are cf women. its a slightly different subject, but not too much of a one.

i pay coz i want too, not that i want to control, i want to pay so that they wouldnt have too, hell i have a hard enough time to control myself, why would i want to control someone else.. i spend because I want too. its gotten me into a little trouble with rowan/faust.. me spending money on her when she wants to spend on me..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

CFScorpio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mercurior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > (and scorp
> > there are also women who take advantage of a
> mans
> > income as well)
>
> That's true, but that's a whole different subject.
> I have never been one of those women, and I've
> also never been attracted to men who pay for
> everything, because I feel like they want to
> control me.

Amen! For me to be a stay-at-home woman even if the man made a ton of $$$, I would have to have my OWN wealth where I could pay my way. There is nothing worse than a gold-digger or an ex-wife who demands Ho Support...er, I mean "alimony" or spousal support. Child support is one thing. However, NO woman needs to be paid by an ex-husband for being his wife for a number of years. I want to tell these women to get a job and grow the fuck up!

"FUCK WORK"

amethusos* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CFScorpio Wrote:
> and I've
> > also never been attracted to men who pay for
> > everything, because I feel like they want to
> > control me.
>
> Amen! For me to be a stay-at-home woman even if
> the man made a ton of $$$, I would have to have my
> OWN wealth where I could pay my way.

That's exactly how I feel. For me, the scariest scene in "Rosemary's Baby" is when she goes into the linen closet and pulls out a pathetic little stash of bills so that she can flee the apartment and pay for a taxi. When I watched that, I was like, "Wow. Imagine not having any money of your own and being totally dependent on a man for your "allowance".

cfscorpio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> amethusos* Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > CFScorpio Wrote:
> > and I've
> > > also never been attracted to men who pay for
> > > everything, because I feel like they want to
> > > control me.
> >
> > Amen! For me to be a stay-at-home woman even if
> > the man made a ton of $$$, I would have to have
> my
> > OWN wealth where I could pay my way.
>
> That's exactly how I feel. For me, the scariest
> scene in "Rosemary's Baby" is when she goes into
> the linen closet and pulls out a pathetic little
> stash of bills so that she can flee the apartment
> and pay for a taxi. When I watched that, I was
> like, "Wow. Imagine not having any money of your
> own and being totally dependent on a man for your
> "allowance".

I am with you on that one. I am up early to go to work even though I would rather be back in bed asleep.

My own autonomy is important as it should be to everyone regardless of gender. A lot of women are trapped in horrible situations because of not working. When a divorce happens, the ladies are in these "displaced homemakers" programs where they still cannot make any real money. Even if they had a previous college degree or work experience, being out of the workplace for a few years to a decade or so has made their diplomas and past experience worthless.

There are many wives simply feel entitled to not work while the husbands bust their asses. I can see why many husbands have to treat their stay-at-home wives like little toddlers and monitor the money since most of these dames will spend...spend...spend! I actually knew a lesbian who felt a woman was not supposed to work but her lover was to take care of her. The lover was a woman, of course. What is wrong with this picture????

There are women who expect to be paid for like little whores in the marriage or to be gifted in an intimate relationship. A friend's son is broken up over the end of quick engagement. The man and woman were going to elope. Apparently, the woman did something to deeply upset my friend's son.

What sends red flags up for me is how the fellow bought his girlfriend pricey jewelry. Women do not need expensive presents or to be treated like they are little princesses. As a woman, I find this behaviour offensive. We are adults. I want to tell women to buy their own damned $$$ trinkets if they want them so badly. I did step out on a limb and tell my friend how her kindly son should take this as a lesson to not spend so much $$$ on women. I didn't get blasted...

Thank-you for your message, Mercurior.

"FUCK WORK"