YET..ANOTHER reason to remain childfree...Gads!!!!

I tried this earlier but the computer decided to be a jerk so here goes it again:

I had lunch with my friend, who is 60, last Friday. I work with her in the AA program but am not breaking anonymity as hardly any of her step work was done. It was more about her adult kids and how they push her towards a drink when they reject her. I kindly reminded her that no one can make us drink if no one can make us sober.

My friend did the usual "martyr" act of how she practically bankrupted herself as a divorced parent to have her two children go to boarding school so they were around the "right" influences and would end up in good careers. Well...the daughter works on Wall Street as a trader and the son does more than okay. However, my friend is at an age where she should talk retirement but said she would be working until the day she dropped dead.

Why all of that talk of no retirement? Because...the woman spent it all for her kids. The daughter is like most people, who do not appreciate a parent's sacrifice and talks down to her mom. The son is sort of a "whatever" kind of guy. I can agree the female adult child is a pain even though I have never met her and never heard "the other side of the story". Yet...I can attest with my own experience of dealing with certain family members that *I* sure as hell do not want to be guilted into acting a certain way. Back in 1990, my mother tried to use the "I guess I will go get a drink" attitude when I refused to her own control issues. Believe me, it is not fun. And...I did not have to the emotional tools back then to deal with such emotional blackmail.

Back to the reason to NOT breed:

This alone says it all. A mother...and a father...can nearly bankrupt him/herself and have NOTHING for retirement while the adult children do not appreciate a damned bit of the sacrifice. I notice women doing this more when it comes to their children especially if there was a divorce. Women are told to be the "sacrificing moos" and how they will be rewarded. Yeah...right!

My friend's ex paid child support but not the amount she deemed fit since the man had money. I do not think a man's huge salary should be factored into any post-marital extortion. If the kids want something, they should work as teens to get it...and that includes education. There would be less of the adult brats being nasty to their parents if they were the ones funding the "cost to be the Boss"...

I spoke to my friend...again. Same ol' bitching! I told her how children are the worst financial investment ever!!! I have said the same to others. I know I am not that nice but I am tired of hearing the "sacrificing :bawl good moo" bit...

I totally agree. Just because you spew out that clump of cells after 9 months does NOT mean that just because you sacrifice everything for it, that it will be grateful - or even acknowledge you when it grows up.

This said, stop the bitching when you are retirement age and don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

Thusly a beautiful example to people everywhere that when you have children, you should not give up your entire life for them. They won't respect it, and will only see you as a caretaker for their security, and not as an actual human being.

I totally know, Feh & KFLL. I often want to tell my friend to drink a big glass of "Shut the Fuck Up" when I start to hear the violins of how she sacrificed for her children and has NOTHING when others in her age group are thinking of retiring in two+ years. Nothing will ever make my friend's daughter care about her or help out in a $$$ way. I do want to tell her to stop the bitching but I try my best to divert the conversation to the AA steps. I also do not meet up as much as before since it is mostly about bitching about work or the adult kids rather than working to live in the solution rather than the problem. I may not be working right now but my time is still valuable.

You can't be a good role model if you don't do anything. I admire my mother because she had a life beyond me, she did things that I thought were cool, and she did them well. If all she did was stay at home and serve me hand and foot, I highly doubt I'd have the same respect for her.

Case in point: 3 childhood friends (2 girls, 1 boy) from down the street, who also came from a lower-middle-class family were waited on, hand and foot, by their mother.

They never heard no, every birthday party and sleep over was orchestrated and food prepared as if it were a socialite's coming-out party. They didn't have much but their mother always made sure they had a home-cooked breakfast, lunch, dinner. Their rooms were adorably decorated and the 3 of them never lifted a finger to do 1 chore. Mom would scour the clearance racks for the best clothing at cheap prices. Both mom and dad did what they could financially to help 2 of them thru college (the oldest girl is a waste of life stank-ho breeder who works at a 7-11).

This mother never had a life. The family was her life and everything she did revolved around it.

Where are the kids today? The son is a successful, unmarried investment broker living near Pittsburgh. Has been home ONCE in the past 8 years. Younger daughter is a property management exec in Connecticut, marrying a rich lawyer in the fall. Who's giving her away? The fiancee's uncle! Certainly not her own father who worked his ass off to provide for the family. She's been home about 3 times in the past 12 years. My mother and this mother work together and she even says how they can never even bother to pick up the phone to call.

I guess that's the THANX you get for making your offspring the center of your universe. Sounds like a big mistake to me.

I can't get too worked up about the folks whose primary motivation for parenthood was to provide an income stream for their old age. I'm tired of hearing how selfish WE are when the breeders gloat about 'nobody caring for you in your old age'.

IMHO, when you have kids, you are obligated to care for them until adulthood - they didn't choose to be born so they're not obligated to you for anything. Of course, my opinion may be colored by the fact that I hate martyrs.

Parents are required to take care of their kids until they turn the age of "majority" (adulthood). Nowhere is there an obligation for college. It is nice if the parents can afford to pay for higher education and want to...along with the children showing some gratitude...and actually doing something with their degrees.

Sure...I am not "obligated" to be nice to a service worker because s/he chose that work -- like a parent chooses to have kids. Yeah...I can act like a cunt-ho to a server. However, being a kindly person and showing gratitude for good service would be how a decent human being behaves. I am tired of people saying they did not "choose" to be born. That is true but it is not an excuse to be an asshole if they had good parents.

The "I did not choose to be born" is a rat-bastard fucking excuse that many use to be horrid to family members or society. Get over it...because we are all in the same boat! It is one thing if someone had abusive parents. There is no obligation to be even civil to someone who abused another person.

KFLL, I knew people like your friends' mother who came from lower-middle class backgrounds. The moms would scour the clearance racks at the "better" stores so Snotlina can wear the latest trends while these women wore shit. And...I know too damned many parents who paid for college while their overgrown brats do zip with their education. I also know the successful ones, like my friend's daughter, who looks at her mother's sacrifice like it was owed to her.

In my own opinion, people should really start cutting their kids loose at 18 and tell them, "Sink or swim..." It IS cruel but society's young adults are reverting back to babyhood where they return home and never really do for themselves...or just don't give a damn about their families. Most people who have to endure the School of Hard Knocks to get what they have tend to be better individuals.

I know a couple of friends who are basically decent people but were told by their parents that they were NOT to return to the family home after age 21. Yeah...it may sound harsh as these two gals were not "bad"; however, these friends learned how to survive and are doing okay in their 40's. They may not be rich or in those great careers but they do not depend on their parents. That is real parenting...

When I was a teenager my father said to me, "You want a car kid, get a job". I wanted a car so I did. I paid for it in full from my savings and never asked him for a dime of gas or maintenance money.

I left the state at age 20, came back for a while because of the job situation, moved out again, then briefly returned, then moved out over 20 years ago and never looked back. I had to buy all my own clothes from high school on and was expected to work to pay for anything I wanted. My father calls it, "The Gift Of Independence". What a change from today's youth!

It gets me when 20 somethings are still relying on Mom and Dad to help them with car payments, insurance, etc.

Parents should, for the most part, be allowed to raise their children as they see fit, and with the realization that: 1. their children will one day have to be a part of society as a whole and 2. their children will one day have to care for themselves. If a parent wants to give their child a college education, car, computer, video game system, nose job, house or whatever is no concern of mine. If a parent has done a decent job, their child will also have some respect for what the "gift" means, and may even know that the "gift" is a one time thing and won't be replaced everytime it gets trashed or wasted.

The problem comes when parents gift for no other reason than "it will make my child like me better", and never say no to anything. They don't know their kids, and they don't want to be parents. They want little people to dress up, and when those people start to dress themselves, they want a little friend to think they are "cool", which a parent should NEVER be. They don't really want to know how Shitford is doing at school like a parent would, but they want Shitford to feel better when he gets a bad grade...like a friend would.

I would imagine that the deepest conversation between parents and children in families like this is probably:
Parent pointing at a magazine ad "that's cool"
Child "Naw, only the poor kids have that...the real cool thing is (insert expensive object here)"
Parent "oh, lets go shopping"
or maybe
parent "what do you want for your birthday?"
child "I want all my friends to get personalized IPOD invites, and I want to rent out the best resturant in town for a dance party dj'd by Paris Hilton"
Parent "hmmmm...we can take out a second mortage....sounds like a great idea!"

Amethusos* wrote:

>"The "I did not choose to be born" is a rat-bastard fucking excuse"

I like that. I'll have to remember that one!

What I mean by "I didn't ask to be born" is the pahrunts who seem to think that they've created their own personal slave, unlike us 'selfish' childfree types.

JoJo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I mean by "I didn't ask to be born" is the
> pahrunts who seem to think that they've created
> their own personal slave, unlike us 'selfish'
> childfree types.

Very true...but the problem is that even the best of parents end up getting shafted by their ingrate adult brats who do not appreciate the hard work it took to raise them.

and this is why there are more and more cases of elder abuse,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=RPUVGOA5XXXS3QFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/06/14/nold114.xml


Help The Aged said as many as 500,000 elderly people may be neglected and abused by carers or relatives. There are five types of elder abuse, it said: psychological, physical, financial, sexual and neglect.

The vast majority of those who are abused are over the age of 70, and two-thirds of abuse is committed at home by someone in a position of trust.

Action on Elder Abuse said greedy middle-aged sons and daughters were the people most likely to rob their parents of money, valuables and even their homes.

Care services minister Ivan Lewis told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The findings are disturbing. I think there are real cultural issues in our society in the way we treat older people.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

"Very true...but the problem is that even the best of parents end up getting shafted by their ingrate adult brats who do not appreciate the hard work it took to raise them."

I disagree, mostly based on the fact that the folks who are my age and older (30's and up) are pretty decent people in general, or at least don't expect the world to kiss our asses. I am guessing that is a result of our parents, crappy or not, making some attempt at "parenting". If parents now days actually attempted any sort of job of raising their children to be caring human beings, the kids won't be horrible monsters. But, as we've seen most breeders have children because they can't make adult friends, or want some little person to dress up, or because they hate their haircut and want it to grow out faster.

I ran by Wegman's Friday after work and while in line, the 2 women behind me - who were clearly SAHMs and knew each other well - were yabbering on how little time they have and basically making up excuses for being lazy.

One actually said, "I think back about all the free time and sanity I had before my kids were born and I often wonder what the hell I was thinking. Dan's never home and now I know why."

Moo #2 replied, "I know what you mean. Thank god I stopped at 2."

Doesn't anyone THINK before they act??????

After hearing their plight, I sauntered off and smugly smiled to myself, relishing in the fact that I get to go home to SO and our 7 adorable furbabies.

the is in the UK, and its based on a specific cultural grouping (the middle classes), who have pretentions of being upper class, and look down upon the actual workers.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I do hear you on that one, Feh. I am 43. My late-grandmother was a terror to my mother and me...but mostly to Mom 'cause I got over taking her shit in my 30's. Mom had to call Grandma every single day or she would hear Holy Hell. If I went to visit my grandmother, she would demand I call her when I got home...and I was in my mid-20's at the time. I was not a teen driver who needed to "check in".

One time I was stopped by CHP on Hwy. 101 during "rush hour" traffic. I knew I was not speeding as movement was only at about 10 MPH at that time of day. The state trooper came to my window telling me that my grandmother called in wailing how I could have been in an accident (yeah...she had my license plate number along with model and make of car) for not being home exactly when I said. I stopped off to do some shopping. God...it drove me nuts as this was normal control tactics of this woman! Grandma's favourite tactic was to threaten suicide to get her way and attention as she had attempted it before and ruined her career, which forced her into early retirement.

The turning point for me came when I had enough of her constant calls and demands. I changed my phone number. Mom was naturally stunned but she supported my choice but felt she did not have her own choice. She felt mentally chained to this woman. Grandma has been dead for 12 years but I still have some resentments over how she would use the "I am wor-reed" bullshit to try to emotionally blackmail my mom and me. Grandpa (they were divorced) called her on her shit behaviour.

KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One actually said, "I think back about all the
> free time and sanity I had before my kids were
> born and I often wonder what the hell I was
> thinking. Dan's never home and now I know why."

I can imagine where Dan-Dan is every night...if you know what I mean. He is screwing some chick... It sucks to be that moo. Better her than me...

What makes me remain Child free?

I have a friend which is the same age as me and 3 days age difference which is a lot in common. She is also a good friend of mine. Kind of compatible as a couple even we are not.
The only downfall is that she has got a child which she got pregnant accidentally and now she don't hardly talk to me because is always busy and overworking herself to death. It is sad now I hardly see her anymore because of all this.

Why she had a child when it was an accident? Because her mum and her doctors use this "hormone manipulating techniques" to make her keep the child and use the child as punishment.

If anyone never heard of "manipulate hormones". This is a made up name by me. Which I refer as when someone got pregnant by mistake and want an abortion for genuine reasons. Then suddenly some stupid martyr and person persuade the person to keep the kid for selfish reasons. Mostly moral people and pro-lifers do this and force them to have the kid, conning the person saying “how good the child is” (this is usually a BINGO Technique which happens to a lot of CF people) – I hate these people because these people force them to pain and suffering.

Since I come to this Bratfree forum I have some theory about this person. Because she is an only child to her parents and she is smart. I was thinking that my friend’s mum was a grandbaby-raby and knew she will never have a grandkid so when she got preggy by mistake, that when she tries her bingo to have the child.
How can a parent force an innocent child to have a kid and use this morals to justify so she can have a grankid.

I sometime get concerned about her because of all of this and that is when I become Child Free.

I look back and see the huge impact damage the morals can cause when people get con by bingo ing people to have a child.

People don't realise that having a child is a life-sentence and you have to sacrifice your souls and your life to bring a child, not bless or miracle Bull-Crap I hear all the time.

What IDIOTS!! I hate to say this, guys (not actually but felt I should throw in a disclaimer anyhow), but parents who pamper their hellspawn, giving them everything and making their world revolve around the crotchturds their Numer One priority deserve what they get.

This is one of the reasons that I remained CF--I had too many other priorities when younger. In fact, offspring were not even on the list. I'm not wealthy but getting by and my life is my I own. No screaming grandbrats to have to put up with. It's just DW and me and that's the way we like it.

This scenario of a not so well off parent working their fingers to the bone and then getting shitty kids out of it is as old as The Bible. Anyone ever see the old Joan Crawford movie Mildred Pierce? It's circa 1940, dad up and leaves after the first kids dies, and she is left alone to raise precious 'Veta". She sews, cooks, cleans for other people 24/7, and eventually spends evry waking minute working at a restaurant she owns, just so Veta can get mail order dresses because handmade ones are'nt good enough. Her mother marries a man who she doesn't love so Veta can go to finishing schools, drive convertibles, and study in France. How does Veta repay her? She starts screwing the step dad as soon as she reaches college age , murders him, and lets mom take the rap.

While the kids are clearly assholes, I place most of the blame on the parents. I think that deep down they are trying to buy their love and respect, and count on them to take care of them when they are old. Those are HUGE mistakes, from what I have seen over the years, and I want no part of that real life tragedy.

KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I ran by Wegman's Friday after work and while in
> line, the 2 women behind me - who were clearly
> SAHMs and knew each other well - were yabbering on
> how little time they have and basically making up
> excuses for being lazy.
>
> One actually said, "I think back about all the
> free time and sanity I had before my kids were
> born and I often wonder what the hell I was
> thinking. Dan's never home and now I know why."
>
> Moo #2 replied, "I know what you mean. Thank god
> I stopped at 2."
>
> Doesn't anyone THINK before they act??????
>
> After hearing their plight, I sauntered off and
> smugly smiled to myself, relishing in the fact
> that I get to go home to SO and our 7 adorable
> furbabies.

That is the point. They don't think. They are in denial. They are dead fish floating downstream. (Best piece of advice my mom ever gave me.. "It takes a live fish to swim against the stream."
Those who follow 'the life script' are mostly dead fish.

amethusos* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > One actually said, "I think back about all the
> > free time and sanity I had before my kids were
> > born and I often wonder what the hell I was
> > thinking. Dan's never home and now I know
> why."
>
> I can imagine where Dan-Dan is every night...if
> you know what I mean. He is screwing some
> chick... It sucks to be that moo. Better her
> than me...

...or, he is hanging out at bars and drinking himself silly, wondering how the hell did he get himself into this mess to begin with.

As far as him banging some other chick, it is possible, but many men go impotent after seeing what their dick had done...:bawl