Where the bloody hell does all the money go?

Quick question here.

We all know here in the states that the breeders get the medicaid, food stamps, section 8, welfare, blah blah on and on and on. And for anyone reading or lurking here, if you think the characterization of breeders making out like bandits with their welfare and benefits is a mean spirited myth, then you need to watch this video:

Idiot scamming breeder makes enough money from welfare to save several hundred dollars for brats fancy christmas presents (jeez, my parents never spent 600 bux on christmas gifts for me) and spends it on trying to bail babydaddy out of jail and then asks Judge Judy to help her get the money back:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J6zGd9nf9ys

Second part: Judge Judy applies smackdown to breeder welfare abuser and rules just how you would think she should

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PMx-2F4hkm4

Now, here is my question:

One thing I've noticed, especially around the holidays is how many goddamned breeder charities there are. "Give to the needy famblies, give to the needy kids" hell my local supermarket is always begging for donations for "famblies" and gives away $100 in free groceries to a "needy fambly" every goddamn month. Not to mention there's the Habitat for Breedermanity, car dealerships that give away free used cars once a year to a "needy fambly" and lest we forget those wonderful "angel trees" at christmas where the brats can get fancy bling that I can't even afford to buy as a working adult. And it goes on and on an on and on. I can't remember the last time I was hit up for a charity for disabled adults, honestly.

So what gives here? Seems to me if you are a crafty breeder like the one in the videos you can really clean up with all the government money PLUS all the shit you can get from the charities for "famblies" which just seem to be fucking endless.

It truly PAYS to breed. I think these fuckers probably make out better than most of us who work full time do. And that is no "myth" as far as I can tell.

For Feh -- tell me what you think of those videos.

I hate judge shows, mostly because they make me hate people even more, and the yelling, always with the yelling...and so much assholery. ACK! Thank you very little. But, I'm guessing you wanted me to watch these because I explained why some disabled people may choose to not report all of their income, eh?

I see a big difference between breeder welfare and disability welfare, that being that generally people choose to get pregnant, and even if they didn't make the conscious choice, they still chose to not end the pregnancy. Generally, people do not choose to be disabled, and many times can not end their disability with a simple $500 visit to a doctor. While breeders are doing TMIJITW, and it's SOOOO HAAAAARRRRDDD, the simple fact is that they are still physically capable of leaving the house and working at just about any job with no need for special accomidations, beyond needing childfree workers around to pick up the slack, obviously.

I don't know much about welfare for breeders, but there doesn't seem to be the strict enforcement of income restrictions, and total loss of all benefits when one makes even one penny more than their alloted income amount, like there is with disabled persons. I'm fine with paying taxes to support people who are truly disabled, and have no problems with them making a couple extra bucks on "under the table" work, because they generally had no choice in the matter of their disability. A person who lays their legs across a railroad track and has them severed, yeah maybe not so deserving. A railroad worker who falls in front of a train and has his legs severed as a result, I have a little more sympathy for. I have never met anyone who was getting rich off their government disability payments even if they might happen to make extra "under the table". If it's a choice between losing everything for accurately reporting that you made $50 over your alloted earnings amount, and not reporting that extra $50, I'm going to side with a disabled person not reporting every time.

Feh, I hear where you are coming from. And I seriously feel bad for disabled people on the system because as those videos show, they do not get the kind of money and benefits breeders get.

I don't care how someone came about becoming disabled either, disabled is disabled.

But follow me for a minute here -- if you can WORK why are you on disability? My friend who works on the freelance websites says that people on the dole are constantly driving down the market rates there for everyone else because they charge rates and make bids at such low amounts that no one who has to work full time and pay taxes can afford to match. This includes both the "disbaled" and the "welfare moos." One person on disability even had the nerve to post in a forum asking if there was someway she could hide her money because she was on disability? She was charging $7 an hour for a job that should have been priced out at $20!!!!! Needless to say, people were pissed as hell about this. Friend tells me these stories all the time, because he too is a childfree person working and paying the taxes that pays everyones dole payments.

A person on the dole who is working under the table will be able to undercut a full time taxpayer and especially a full time taxpayer with no deductions EVERYTIME. Somethings got to give here. And the dole people purposely undercut because then they get hired over the higher priced taxpayer and they know it. Disabled people are not always right, or sweet and innocent. And this is very short sighted because eventually
a taxpayer may have to find a way to stop paying into the dole by going underground himself, and then what happens to the system that helps the disabled? The government will cut off the disabled long before they cut off the breeders if they start going broke.

I don't know why you're picking this argument with me, because I don't even think we're arguing the same thing. I'm not lumping disability and breeder welfare into one boat, because it's simply incorrect to do that. They have vastly different standards for their benefits. I'm still going to go for the disabled person not reporting all their income, within reason, every time. Obviously if they're making thousands of dollars unreported, that's a whole nother animal.

If they made up enough of the population to make a difference, then maybe, but there are simply not a lot of them, way fewer than welfare breeders or undocumented folks. On top of that, there aren't enough of them working under the table that would bring down wages, like say undocumented workers do. Even if every disabled person were to work under the table, I doubt they'd have as much of an economic impact as undocumented workers or welfare breeders currently do.

"if you can WORK why are you on disability?"
This is pretty simple. Because being disabled is expensive, much more expensive that being abled, or being knocked up. It costs a lot, it won't end, you can't cheap out (like breeders) and you'll be dealing with it for the rest of your life. Then there's Work vs. work. I see Work as when you leave your home for X hours a day, and perform duties another person assigns under the conditions that the worksite has. Many employers are unwilling or unable to make the "special accomidations" a disabled person might need to perform job duties at a particular work site, or for x number of hours straight. Many employers are also unwilling to hire a person who may be out sick more often due to the nature of their disability, than a non-disabled worker. Most employers won't hire a blind, wheel chair bound person who can only work 2 days a week because they have to have dialsys 3 days a week, and may be out sick more due to lower immune function. However, that person may be able to perform work (small w) like functions where they earn money at home making braided hemp bracelets. Say they sell $550 dollars in bracelets, but are only supposed to make $500, or LOSE EVERYTHING, I have no problems with them not documenting that extra $50.

"A person on the dole who is working under the table will be able to undercut a full time taxpayer and especially a full time taxpayer with no deductions EVERYTIME."
And whose responsibility is this, really? If these people are working for employers, it is the employer's responsibility to accurately report employee wages. If they are not reporting all the wages they pay their employees, they are breaking the law. If an employer is willing to hire someone under the table, then it is the employer who is breaking the law. Simply put, if all the other whores are offering $20 hand jobs, and I offer a $10 hand job, that doesn't mean you have to take it.

"Disabled people are not always right, or sweet and innocent."
God, how I hate it when people do this. Did I say anything of the sort? No. Simply because I believe that a disabled person should be able to make a couple bucks over their paltry "alloted earnings", without losing EVERYTHING, doesn't mean I think ALL disabled people are great. Yes, I know there are assholes everywhere, I am very conscious of that fact. It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole. It doesn't mean that I have to write off my humanity because of it.

Companies and individuals looking for freelance workers are NOT employers, so this is in no way an "employer burden." Contract work is just that, contract work and there is no "minimum wage". People on disability AND moos on welfare FREQUENTLY undercut full time tax paying people who are trying to eek out a living in freelance. Both groups of people CAN afford to offer the employers rock bottom prices since they HAVE THE GOVERNMENT DOLE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE. This is so common on freelancing boards and sites that it's just everyday business, and it sucks. Who is going to pay your disability if they can't make enough money to pay taxes? Any idea what the self-employment tax is? Oh you don't want to know. It's outrageous. And someone who is charging $7 is in no way going to be able to pay self-employment tax, federal tax and state tax AND afford to pay rent. $7 freelance is actually $3 after all the taxes. $3 an hour! Only someone working under the table can afford to charge $7 an hour in contract wages.

The problem is, the welfare and disability systems were never intended to serve as a profit booster for companies or individuals hiring freelancers contract, but this is exactly what goes on.

I don't know what the answer is Feh. I do know that this kind of thing is not sustainable. People carrying the full burden of the taxes have to be able to pay those taxes and keep a roof over their head.

Unless the government were to step in and set minimum pricing for contract work, which is never going to happen since the corporations run the government and love the fact that they benefit from the welfare and disability system that enables those on welfare and disability to offer rock bottom rates.

On the other hand, you know I do agree with you on some level here and actually someone that is disabled can make a few extra dollars without trying to compete unfairly with full time taxpayers, yes under and even above the table. There's a little box on your tax form for "hobby income" and the rules are very different for "wage income." Doing little things on the side as a hobby or taking care of your neighbors pets while they are away for a little cash on the side, stuff like that to help make up the differences is a ok in my book because it doesn't drive down the wages of the taxpayers, in particular, the childfree taxpayers who carry the whole goddamn burden for everyone.

The solution is to end welfare for EVERYONE, corporations included. Also, get rid of ALL deductions for EVERYTHING. If one feels the system is so onerous, don't pay taxes, I know a few tax resistors who've been doing it since the Vietnam War, it is possible.

Freelancers and contract workers are hired by someone who will then pay them. The businesses who utilize them do not want to pay all the costs associated with actually hiring actual people as members of their business, because having actual employees decreases the profit margin. It is completely right that businesses should be able to do anything necessicary to constantly increase their profit margins, because that's completely sustainable and realistic. Economic collapse? That'll never happen again. We're much, much smarter than those Depression-era idiots.
>sarcasm off<

I was just thinking today, with all of my illnesses and medical issues, I could likely qualify for disability myself.

One of my disabilities that makes it very hard to work in a regular workplace is the fact that I am deaf in one ear. So since most temp jobs and stuff like that are usually phone related, I cannot hear people talking to me at all if I have a headset or a phone on the good ear.

A few months back I would have like to have sued the last employer for allowing the other employees to harass me for my hearing disability. And I do mean harass. They got real nasty with me when I explained that because I am deaf in one ear, when I am on the phone to please write down what they need on a piece of paper and put it in front of me instead of trying to talk to me while I am on the phone. Also, I asked them to please gently tap me on the shoulder if for some reason they were trying to tell me something when I'm not on the phone, because I don't always hear everything so well. WELL THAT JUST WENT OVER LIKE A LEAD BALLOON and you know what? it's happened to me before on other jobs too. It's VERY HARD trying to hold a job with a hearing disability and getting people to make even the most slight accommodations like the one I mentioned. It makes it almost impossible for me to work.

And that's just ONE of my medical problems.

I guess I could go ahead and try to get on disability and then just stay home and work from freelance websites under my partners social security number and name. That way I could get the $1000 a month in disability, the medicaid and make a very good income that I don't have to report at all, except when my partner files taxes on it at the end of the year as their own income efforts. No one on any work at home freelance site is going to know that it's "me" sitting behind the computer actually doing all the work.

Sounds good to be taking a little bit of that government money for myself if I legally can qualify for it. Better than it going to breeders, right?

Maybe the problem here is that a lot of people get on disability not because they can't work or don't want to work, but because the laws aren't enforced by the government that force businesses to accommodate the needs of the disabled in any sort of meaningful way in the workplace.

Hey, go nuts. Apply for all the government programs you want. Do all the under the table work you want. I am not here to tell you how to live your life, nor do I really care as long as you aren't physically invading my space, or the space of people I care about, I think you'll be disappointed to find I'm pretty leniant on human behaviour.

There are people on disability who can physically work, and breeders with plenty of money who get welfare. Those are also people who fall under my designation of assholes. Some people don't feel the need to be proud of themselves, make their own way or work to accomplish anything and they have that right. Do the rest of us end up paying for it? Yes, and that's the cost of living in a society with other humans.

I pay taxes every day to support people and things that make me sick, or are just completely stupid. Do I like it? Not really, but I do like having paved roads, a fire department and knowing that my retarded cousin and wheel chair bound uncle can have lives in society as opposed to being left in the woods to die, which would be much cheaper.

But the one thing I would never do if I were collecting disability and working freelance under my partners ssn would be to undercut the bids and pricing of people who are out there breaking their backs to pay the taxes necessary to keep the social safety nets in place.

Of course, that's just me. I tend to consider the personal welfare and struggles of others as well as my own.

Enforcement of the rights of the disabled are very slim and its very difficult to prove discrimination to a jury unless you are in a wheelchair or totally blind. Even then the employers can find 101 reasons to let you go that have nothing at all to do with your disability. I have discussed my own discrimination with an attorney when this has happened in the past and have been told this very thing.

Having the taxpayers pay for the disability of people who might otherwise actually be able to work if they were accommodated under the laws we already have on the books is just another form of corporate welfare. It's more $$$ in their pockets if the disabled person stays home and works under someone elses ssn for rock bottom rates that the non disabled freelancers can't afford to match.

Well there you go then. If you can't hack being an asshole, then you aren't going to do the work it takes to be an asshole.

Unfortunately, it is impossible to completely eradicate assholery, because the nature of the asshole is to do anything they can to continue being an asshole, and they're sneaky and will do all the work they can to stay out of actual work. They don't care about anything but themselves, and they gleefully reap the benefits of living in a society without actually putting anything productive into it. If there is one group of people who you can paint with the broad brush of sameness, it's assholes.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

But follow me for a minute here -- if you can WORK why are you on disability?

You work because you have to (and to add to what Feh said--you don't have a job, so you don't have health insurance. But you have medical problems. How's THAT supposed to work out?). My mom's constantly in pain, sometimes to the point of tears--she has pretty much no cartilage left in her knees, has fibromyalgia and asthma (among other things); a trip down to the washer in the basement and back up has her feeling like shit.

But she's looking for a part-time job because her disability doesn't pay the bills. She's just going to have to deal with it if she's exhausted or in a lot of pain, I guess. I'd love to take care of her myself, but I dont' think I'll be able to afford to send her much; the only option would be to continue to live with her, but I can't live with my mommy until I'm 50.

She was also told she couldn't get much help in the way of Medicare or Medicaid or whatever it is (I can never remember which one is the one not for old people) because, as they told her, "Medicare is for people under 21." THE FUCK???


Any idea what the self-employment tax is? Oh you don't want to know. It's outrageous. And someone who is charging $7 is in no way going to be able to pay self-employment tax, federal tax and state tax AND afford to pay rent. $7 freelance is actually $3 after all the taxes. $3 an hour! Only someone working under the table can afford to charge $7 an hour in contract wages.

So what does that say for minimum wage, which in most of the country is still $5.15 an hour? Since the gov't takes a third of one's wages in income tax, then that's really about $3.50 an hour too.

Sorry to hear about your mom and yes I do understand how people on disability get the shaft compared to what the breeders get.

In terms of philosophy, I don't have an issue with any disabled person doing what they need to do to survive -- really -- short of one thing --

DON'T UNDERCUT THE MARKET WAGE RATES FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HELPING YOU AND PAYING FOR YOUR DISABILITY.

Now I am not trying to exaggerate a problem that doesn't exist, or that is just a "few" rotten apples, but it is seriously hard for those who have to pay the taxes for everyones disability and welfare to make ends meet if you sit your ass up on these freelancer sites and charge 100% or more below the market rate for services performed by other Americans. These sites are FILLED and I do mean FILLED with people on disability and welfare who are working under the table under someone elses ssn and almost ALL of them undercut the rates, lowering wages for everyone. How about a little personal responsibility and stop being so damn selfish that you have to offer 100% below market rates or more because you're greedy and want to grab every customer you can.

You don't have to worry. You have the government to make up the difference between those cheap ass rates, so what the fuck do you care, right? You gots yours! If me saying that makes you mad, don't get mad at me, I'm the wrong place to direct your anger.