2472 Fundamentalist Male View of Marriage

The rant is one reason why I have always RAN FAST from religious men. I can see the woman serving her husband if he is the one working and she is not. However, that does not mean the guy gets to "order his wife" around. She is a person regardless of job status. The fundie in the rant screeching how the woman must still be "submissive" to her husband even if SHE is earning the pay says it all. If I pay the bills, I am going to have more of a say of what goes on at home. End of story. My soon-to-be ex did not like that at all despite his not working or working very little at times. That is why he is on his way to me being legally out of his life. End of story. I take shit from no one despite having a cunt and tits.

Gah, I hate the whole "submission" thing too. If figure if God wanted women to be treated like children and "submit" to a man's every decision, then he would've MADE women like children (i.e. people who don't always have enough sense to do what's best for themselves) and men all highly intelligent. But since we were all created equal and there are men that I am smarter than, I have to assume he wouldn't want a woman submitting to a guy who's IQ is 20 points lower than hers is, or who doesn't know jack or shit about the thing he's trying to tell her to do when she does.

The more I self-study about Christianity vs. the belief in the Divine Feminine, the more I'm convinced Christianity was concocted by a bunch of pissed off men with penis issues. I'm sorry, but a religion that preaches that I, as a woman, am the sole cause of everything wrong in the world and my sex brought about the fall of paradise...well, is it any wonder I take issue with it?

And ditto the 'submission' thing...my parents are Christians, but my Dad KNOWS better than to expect my Mom (a wonderful, headstrong, outspoken woman) to submit to him. Same with my husband-if he tried to pull the submission crap with me, he knows full good and well I'd leave him. Again, pissed off men with penis issues-men who are secure with themselves don't need their wives to 'submit', and they don't need to hide behind the Bible (an interesting read, if you read it and disconnect any religious leanings).

Guest, a woman, said, "I'm sorry, but a religion that preaches that I, as a woman, am the sole cause of everything wrong in the world and my sex brought about the fall of paradise...well, is it any wonder I take issue with it?"

Guest, remember that these are fundie jerks interpreting things here. (Question: if the Bible is the literal word of God as the fundies claim, then why is interpretation necessary? And did God relay the Bible in English all those thousands of years ago? But I digress...) This is the same crowd that said the Bible justified slavery and that black skin is the mark of Cain mentioned in Genesis. The views about women and their "proper" role aren't that far off this kind of crap.

A well-respected area Catholic priest told my local daily paper in an interview some years ago, "Fundamentalist Christians are the Shiite Muslims of America." Those of us who came up in more mainstream Christian churches—Catholic, Episcopal/Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, some Methodist—think the fundies are wack anyway.

One key to remember is that fundies have the power they have in America due to a series of historical accidents. They are far less common in other industrialized countries, and in certain European countries their style of Christianity is viewed almost like a cult. Hate speech laws there and in Canada have silenced some of the fundies' hateful views against, for example, gays, while in the US these people are permitted to blather on about what sinners others are.

I'd far rather have our First Amendment freedoms, but I understand the impulse to force people who spread hate to shut up—especially when, as the fundies do, they attempt to act on their verbal sewage through the political process and other means.

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guest, a woman, said, "I'm sorry, but a religion
> that preaches that I, as a woman, am the sole
> cause of everything wrong in the world and my sex
> brought about the fall of paradise...well, is it
> any wonder I take issue with it?"
>
> Guest, remember that these are fundie jerks
> interpreting things here. (Question: if the Bible
> is the literal word of God as the fundies claim,
> then why is interpretation necessary? And did God
> relay the Bible in English all those thousands of
> years ago? But I digress...) This is the same
> crowd that said the Bible justified slavery and
> that black skin is the mark of Cain mentioned in
> Genesis. The views about women and their "proper"
> role aren't that far off this kind of crap.
>
> A well-respected area Catholic priest told my
> local daily paper in an interview some years ago,
> "Fundamentalist Christians are the Shiite Muslims
> of America." Those of us who came up in more
> mainstream Christian churches—Catholic,
> Episcopal/Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, some
> Methodist—think the fundies are wack anyway.
>
> One key to remember is that fundies have the power
> they have in America due to a series of historical
> accidents. They are far less common in other
> industrialized countries, and in certain European
> countries their style of Christianity is viewed
> almost like a cult. Hate speech laws there and in
> Canada have silenced some of the fundies' hateful
> views against, for example, gays, while in the US
> these people are permitted to blather on about
> what sinners others are.
>
> I'd far rather have our First Amendment freedoms,
> but I understand the impulse to force people who
> spread hate to shut up—especially when, as the
> fundies do, they attempt to act on their verbal
> sewage through the political process and other
> means.

It is to my understanding that Baptist believe that women should submit to their men.

---

lab mom

What Kman said is true. I've never been told (in my years of going to relatively liberal churches) that it was all the woman's fault. It was the fault of both of them. Hell, I'd argue that it's more HIS fault. She at least was tricked by some good arguments. He just ate the damn apple because she said "here honey, eat this!" then was quick to shove blame off on her when God came around.

Fundies can use this story because they can interpret it this way. If society were the other way, I could easily say "man brought it about because he didn't even need a good argument to do it."

WaterLily, in general (with some exceptions) Baptists = fundies.

You find few Baptists in, say, Germany or France.

It's funny that ALL Baptists get lumped into this totalitarian category. I grew up in a Baptist (American Baptist) church and never once heard about the Submission thing. My mom was hard core Baptist and I never once saw her submit to my dad. It was the other way around. I think Christian Funadamentalism comes from all sorts of denominations.

I agree with the quote by the priest who compared Christian Fundies with the Shiites is pretty dead on. I, personally, compare them to the Taliban. The Bible like any other religious text, in the wrong hands can be used for evil deeds. I also think that the original Bible was edited and changed so much over time to give the church more power. It's quite sad.

This guy in my original post is truly scary. We got into once about the subject of animal cruelty, which he pretty much said he was fine with b/c babies are being aborted and such. What a maroon!

I just want to slap the shit out of these religious men who think a women's only function is to breed.

I want to equally slap the women who submit to this type of 1-brain-celled thinking.

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guest, a woman, said, "I'm sorry, but a religion
> that preaches that I, as a woman, am the sole
> cause of everything wrong in the world and my sex
> brought about the fall of paradise...well, is it
> any wonder I take issue with it?"

This is also why I stopped being a Christian over ten years ago. I really do not think much of the "liberal" churches. Some of these denominations claim they do not believe in the Bible being the literal word of a god and overlook some of the sexist shit...but the ministers/priests still use the "good book" for their teachings. Those "liberal" Christians are still lying to themselves. If they believe in any part of the Bible, they need to question themselves about it because "God" cannot be both: a nasty son-of-a-bitch who hates women or a "loving God" who believes all people are his children. Just omitting the "bad parts" of the Holy Babble is not going to make it go away. No self-respecting woman would be a Christian. Just my opinion...:smoke

It's funny the misery people put themselves through when they base their lives on a fictional book. On the other hand, it's quite sad to think of so many people who firmly believe that if they didn't "follow the teachings of so-and-so" they'd go crazy with the freedom and just start raping and murdering everyone around them.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Please do not kill me for this. I am sorry in advance for saying this. Here it comes.

Why are these men able to find wives?

Who marries them and why?

I am on the other end of fundies (CF, male, unmarried, no church, you get it), I am trying to figure out just why? Why do women do that? Why do they choose men who boss them around? Why, why why?

Fundies marry fundies because they are terrified of the rest of the world and choose to remain willfully ignorant in the "safety" of the church, or they just like using religion as an escape from responsibility..."God will provide", "The bible says...", the usual bull.

Terrifyingly enough, there are people in the world who LIKE to be controlled and who don't want to think for themselves, because again, being on responsible for yourself in the big bad world with all those different people and "temptations" is SCARY and it's just easier to do whatever someone else says. I'm getting to think that these people are in the majority.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Feh, you got that right. I used to be friends with someone like that. Key words here: "used to"

You hit the nail on the head, Feh. It seems to me that the reason why so many people have kids is because of fundies. They are promised that they will be taken care of no matter what. Just have them kids and money comes from somewhere. No one knows from where, but from somewhere. Maybe money tree or something. Sad thing is is that people fall for it.

Techie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please do not kill me for this. I am sorry in
> advance for saying this. Here it comes.
>
> Why are these men able to find wives?
>
> Who marries them and why?
>
> I am on the other end of fundies (CF, male,
> unmarried, no church, you get it), I am trying to
> figure out just why? Why do women do that? Why do
> they choose men who boss them around? Why, why
> why?


Maddona was on a talk show talking about teaching her daughter (Lourdes) to have self-respect. Some woman got up and asked "What are you going to teach her about men?" Madonna snapped back "If I teach her self respect, I don't need to teach her about men.
She's dead on. A person with a strong self idenity and respect will not fall into the fundie trap. And that goes for the males too. Fundies give Christians a bad name. Remember that the civil rights movement started from Christians. Fundies are so loud and make such good copy that that is all you see and hear about.

Techie said: "It seems to me that the reason why so many people have kids is because of fundies. They are promised that they will be taken care of no matter what. Just have them kids and money comes from somewhere. No one knows from where, but from somewhere. Maybe money tree or something. Sad thing is is that people fall for it."

Some of the laziest, least motivated people I've worked with have been fundie types or those in certain of the more oddball Christian denominations. They will not do any more than the bare minimum on the job, no matter what the actual workload is or how hard others are having to work, because they are convinced that God will provide, no matter what, and they need not bust their butt doing actual hard work.

Off topic a bit, but: Closely related are bible-thumper types who get really slack about repaying debts. Their attitude is that the Bible has passages opposing money lenders, but the question then becomes, why did you borrow the money, then? I recall the financial manager at the wholesale supply company where I worked years ago becoming livid over one contractor who owed the company a lot of money for charged material and was way behind on payment. The local paper had an article about this contractor extolling the significant time and material he was giving to a local Christian charity involved with sheltering the homeless. No wonder he could be so generous: the material was stuff he got from my company, but hadn't paid for! That's why the financial guy was angry!

Another related type are "born-agains" who think that anything goes in business, as long as they tithe 10% to their church. I knew several like this in the same wholesale field. They would rip you off in a heartbeat—and did—but they were tithing, so it was all good with God.

I don't have much use for fundies. Gosh, can you tell?

sharon j. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Techie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> Maddona was on a talk show talking about teaching
> her daughter (Lourdes) to have self-respect. Some
> woman got up and asked "What are you going to
> teach her about men?" Madonna snapped back "If I
> teach her self respect, I don't need to teach her
> about men.

Wow!!! I normally cannot stand Madonna; however, I am in 100% respect for her about teaching her daughter self-respect. Even many celebs and/or their daughters have zero self-respect which makes them targets for many opportunistic or controlling men.

> She's dead on. A person with a strong self idenity
> and respect will not fall into the fundie trap.
> And that goes for the males too. Fundies give
> Christians a bad name. Remember that the civil
> rights movement started from Christians. Fundies
> are so loud and make such good copy that that is
> all you see and hear about.

Regardless of the civil rights movement being started by Christians, I still do not like most of them: evangelicals or "liberal". A person cannot be told to believe in the Holy Babble...but to go ahead and ignore the "bad parts". Most do not know who Jesus really was or what he truly stood for. Not all authors re: Christ are right on and some have an ax to grind. However, I view Jesus as another insurgent who had a bit of an ego problem if others chose not to listen to him. My opinion only...:cool