TM reference

The TM I believe stands for Trade Mark. It is a reference to breeders that use "trade-marked" phrases to further their anti-CF beliefs. For example, "You'll change your mind" is said to the CF so often that breeders have "trade-marked" the phrase. The same can be said for phrases like "It's different when it's your own" and "Who will take care of you when you get old?" The TM is our (the CF) way of reminding ourselves and others that we recognize these insulting phrases, no matter how their said.

I don't find it annoying. In fact, I think whoever made it up originally was pretty damned clever.

What really kills me about dealing with Breeders (not parents, Breeders) is that when you tell them you are childlfree, it's always the same. Sometimes it's a stunned moment of silence, other times they move right into indignation.

Then the lights go on and they get this look on their face, as if they are having THE MOST ORIGINAL THOUGHT TO EVER CROSS A BRAIN as they proclaim:

IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN IT'S YOUR OWN.

or

WHAT IF YOU MARRY A MAN WHO WANTS KIDS?

or

WHAT IF YOUR PARENTS FELT THE WAY YOU DO?

or

YOU'LL CHANGE YOUR MIND.


Stunningly un-original, they are.

So, if you make a conscious and thoroughly-considered choice to manufacture a sproglet, you're a parent as opposed to a breeder?

My husband and I decided after years of contemplation to have a baby, and did so, and don't plan on having any more. And WON'T. We still use the term "breeder" for those spaced out parents we see waddling around the park, mall, etc. with their little offspring (diapers hanging off due to not being changed for a few days, kids throwing sand at our kid because the single-celled beings that bred them have never bothered to teach manners/empathy/discipline).

I respect a person's choice NOT to breed. When someone tries to persuade a devout non-breeder to make a baby, it's a case of "misery loves company."* Period. If you know you would hate having a kid, don't have one, and good for you for knowing your limits. And OH--that bit about you being "selfish" for not wanting kids? HAVING KIDS IS SELFISH! I'm just trying to picture a sperm and an egg lamenting their own waste. Maybe we should invent a special hotline for them to call or something.

*This is not to say I regret having my daughter. It's the best choice I ever made. But I would NEVER, EVER try to talk someone else into it. It's rude, it's cliche, it's shallow.

"*This is not to say I regret having my daughter. It's the best choice I ever made"

Damn. And you were doing so well there too, until another one of those tired, well worn, and as you put it rude, cliched and shallow remarks wormed it's way into the discourse.
Bingo. Sadly.

Oh so true dogsledder!

Bred Once, you make some valid points. It's great to hear a parent say these kinds of things.

I commend you for being civil and posting in the correct place. So far, you have shown you can read. Your grammar, spelling and punctuation is better than 99.9% of parents who wander over here.

However, the other posters do have a point, and your last paragraph is indeed a cliche. If you are happily married, wasn't your choice of husband equally important?

Invariably, everyone in life makes good and bad decisions, but why is the decision to have/raise children ALWAYS put in superlative terms and held above all other choices? "Best choice I ever made" sounds like overkill.

Yes, it's a nitpicky point, but I wanted to bring it to your attention and ask the question.

Here's a related example: It's a common, unchallenged mantra in popular media that women who stay home and raise children are doing The Most Important Job in the World. Even Oprah, that cultural icon of bullshit, says this.

I say, bully for them if that's what they want to do and they can afford it, but why is this job TMIJITW? I can think of other jobs that are vitally imporant: nurse, doctor, hell, even sanitation workers perform a critically needed function.

I smell bullshit when I hear stuff like that, especially when politicans and RightWingers start up with this crap. What are they trying to sell? If it's so wonderful, why don't more MEN do it?

Dogsledder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "*This is not to say I regret having my daughter.
> It's the best choice I ever made"
>
> Damn. And you were doing so well there too, until
> another one of those tired, well worn, and as you
> put it rude, cliched and shallow remarks wormed
> it's way into the discourse.
> Bingo. Sadly.


A little off topic, but I often hear parents say that exact quote after mewling about how haaaaard it is. It gets irritating.
If you truly love parenting, but you are capable of seeing the other side, you don't have to justify yourself in any way shape or form. I don't go around spouting off how much I love being CF and it was the best choice I ever made (though I have to admit, I do see it a lot from other cfers). We all have our cliches. Her intentions were good though, so take it for what it was meant to be.

The "best choice I ever made" statement is there because it's true for ME. Call it cliche, call it what you want. But it's as true as everything else I said in my post. I didn't expect to be critiqued on the statement because I thought it was clear that I was speaking for myself, not for anyone else. What I find annoying about the "breeder" faction is their seemingly persistent need to dictate how everyone else should feel and behave. I didn't mean to do that by making my statement. I love my daughter more than anything in the world. My husband is a very close second (and he feels the same). It's just how it is. BUT, I fully realize that this is my tiny corner of the universe and I don't expect anyone else to feel that way about her, or to tolerate the absurd sort of antics that I read about here (that's why I like coming here--the stories crack me up, mostly because I can actually RELATE to them).

As for being a stay-at-home mom and thinking that I'm doing the "most important job in the world", I find that statement hokey and gag-inducing. If mom wants to stay home with the kids, fine. But she doesn't get to act like she's better than anyone else or that her "job" (and I even take issue with that term) is more important than anyone elses. I work outside the home and always will, and not just for financial reasons. I like what I do and it's good for me. I could get into a whole soap-boxy rant about how being a stay-at-home mom is potentially detrimental to the little sprogs and all sorts of other Dr. Laura-bashing banalities but it would take way too long and it would just be more cliches of a different sort.

All that said, you know what's really annoying? Breeders asking "When are you going to give her a sibling?" Then telling me that it's CRUEL to not have another child because she needs another kid around to play with and get in trouble with. Strangely, it's usually the really disgruntled and unhappy parents who say that to me. Misery not only loves company, but actively recruits it. Fuckin' A.

I did call it what I wanted: Cliched and shallow.
I'm sorry that you did not expect to be critiqued on the statement, but you must remember that you are a childed person posting on a discussion board for the childfree. Like going swimming and not expecting to get wet.
I do respect your intentions- you appear to have the attitude/intelligence it requires to raise a human being. I wish you luck.

********"best choice I ever made"*******
Why do breeders have to say "oh it sucks but it's the best choice I ever made, I love my crotch dump." I think they feel like they HAVE to say this, or in society they aren't considered a 'good' parent. It's almost like they have to convince themselves or brainwash themselves into thinking this. They do a good job too.


****** I love my daughter more than anything in the world. My husband is a very close second (and he feels the same). It's just how it is.****
Niiiiiiice. I find this very disturbing. I feel that the #1 person in your life should be your significant other, no matter how many brats you have. That's the person who is going to be there when crotch dump is grown and out of the house. This disturbing view is the problem in society these days to contribute to our high divorce rate. I've seen many problems arise when a moo or duh is in love with their sprog more than their significant other.

Bred Once: You seem to see the light about the CF but you are still coming to a CF board as a breeder. What do you expect the responses to be? You shouldn't exactly think we are going to welcome you with open arms do you? You do sound intelligent, I hope you find the meaning of life in your ventures. Maybe you need to find a board with 'single child parents' or something more appropriate for you to find better support in your only child decision.

I do appreciate your decision to only have one child, there is too much overpopulation in this world as it is. Take care.

Bredonce, have you been to Tanglewood? If you are interested in CF/Parent discussions, Tanglewood is probably more appropriate for you than here.

http://p221.ezboard.com/btanglewood30694

i think bred once, is a ok person, they conciously decided not to have more, thats fine, i think a lot of us object to badly behaved kids.

they are a parent, rather than someone out for anything and everything the government gives breeders.

the phrases you used bredonce, we have heard it so many times from so many people its gotten to the stage where when we hear it we go arghhh not again.. i know you probably didnt mean it in the way we normally hear it but you should understand our own feelings in that matter,


where you quote ""I fully realize that this is my tiny corner of the universe and I don't expect anyone else to feel that way about her, or to tolerate the absurd sort of antics that I read about here"

that shows ur quite decent, u will hopefully teach this child to be a decent human being, kind and caring, unlike so many thesedays..

When I hear this...

"I fully realize that this is my tiny corner of the universe and I don't expect anyone else to feel that way about her, or to tolerate the absurd sort of antics that I read about here"

All I can think about is...MY child will never do no wrong as I read on this board...

If you have pushed a loaf, even once, then your crotch dump is irritating someone while you are out and about, away from your little universe. Guaranteed.

"I'm sorry that you did not expect to be critiqued on the statement, but you must remember that you are a childed person posting on a discussion board for the childfree. Like going swimming and not expecting to get wet."

Well put. I actually wasn't offended by the critique, I just thought it was misunderstood.

"Why do breeders have to say 'oh it sucks but it's the best choice I ever made, I love my crotch dump.'"

I NEVER said it sucks. DID NOT! What I said was something to the affect that when breeders try to convert devout non-breeders that it's misery loving company--THEIR misery, not mine. I was attempting to clarify that.

"I feel that the #1 person in your life should be your significant other, no matter how many brats you have."

Maybe that's how it should be, but for me that's not how it is. I can't explain it because I don't fully understand it myself, nor would I ever have expected to feel this way. It's probably some Darwinian element.

I don't think that this mentality is the cause of rampant divorce. I just think that breeding hastens the demise of relationships that are already troubled--and a good many of them are.

"What do you expect the responses to be? You shouldn't exactly think we are going to welcome you with open arms do you? "

Nope. As is so often stated here, there is tons of support in the world for the childed. It's the CF that don't get no respect. I didn't come here for support. I came here because it's a crack up. If it starts to bug me, I'll leave.

"If you have pushed a loaf, even once, then your crotch dump is irritating someone while you are out and about, away from your little universe. Guaranteed."

Yeah, probably. And some crotch dump created some spyware and dumped it into the bowels of my computer and really pissed me off the other day. And another crotch dump let his dog crap in my yard and didn't clean it up, and yet another crotch dump took two parking places at the county building that has limited parking, forcing me to park three blocks away where another crotch dump backed into my car. Then some other crotch dump peed all over the damned toilet seat in the ladies room.

Bred once,

You belong on a different board. Go there. This is for the CF which clearly you are not.

Seems to me like you secretly wish to be though.

>>>>>>>>********"best choice I ever made"*******
Why do breeders have to say "oh it sucks but it's the best choice I ever made, I love my crotch dump." I think they feel like they HAVE to say this, or in society they aren't considered a 'good' parent. It's almost like they have to convince themselves or brainwash themselves into thinking this. They do a good job too.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

******I NEVER said it sucks. DID NOT! What I said was something to the affect that when breeders try to convert devout non-breeders that it's misery loving company--THEIR misery, not mine. I was attempting to clarify that. *********

If you note Bred Once. I quoted your quote as "best choice I ever made" while I was referring to all breeders (as a general group) in the "oh it sucks but it's the best choice I ever made, I love my crotch dump"
If you'd like, I can refer to your quote and take out the oh it sucks part and it still relates to you...

Bred Once...please also note...these words are on the homepage of Bratfree, and I will quote...

******Welcome to Bratfree.com (home of the Rant Room), the newest place for the childfree to rant about bratty kids, bad parenting, bingos, discrimination, and other issues the childfree face. If you're childfree, you usually have to bite your tongue when you experience these things in real life. Not here. This is the place to let it all out. You may also rave about good behavior/parenting.
This is NOT the place for a childed vs. childfree debate.******

sooooo, as you see it states childfree, and you are not childfree.

Anon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bred once,
>
> You belong on a different board. Go there. This is
> for the CF which clearly you are not.
>
>


Well, now it seems clear that she is simply out for an argument.

BREDONCE! GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD! YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN HERE! THERE IS A LINK TO A BOARD THAT MIGHT BE BETTER SUITED FOR YOU AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE! However, if you are dense enough to keep stirring the pot here, you may not be welcomed there either.

****"If you have pushed a loaf, even once, then your crotch dump is irritating someone while you are out and about, away from your little universe. Guaranteed."

Yeah, probably*****

Then WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE???? It is people like you and your crotch dump that we bitch about. You are not welcome. You have a sprog. Go away now.

*****Seems to me like you secretly wish to be though.*****

I agree! Better look long and hard at all that 'love' you say you have for your little crotch turd. Maybe you need counseling to get over the resentment you are feeling because you can't be CF now or ever. Too late...bed.made.lie.

***All that said, you know what's really annoying? Breeders asking "When are you going to give her a sibling?" Then telling me that it's CRUEL to not have another child because she needs another kid around to play with and get in trouble with.*********


Don't listen to that crap. I was an only child and LOVED it!! An only child does not have to be lonely as long as they have playmates. And because you only have one, you will be more likely to be able to her everything she needs both now and to be a successful adult. If she is anything like me (likes a certain amount of peace, quiet and alone time), she would not consider a sibling a gift. Trust me on that one.

I don't know why some here think bredonce is soo good a person. She doesn't even love her husband first, and he seems to feel the same. I don't care what kind of excuse she has for it, it is wrong. If a fire or flood or something of that nature happend, you know who she/he would choose. This is one of the reasons I could never be a moo or be with a duh. Why bother being with someone who is not first in your life and/or you're not first in theirs?

Putting the child in front of the spouse is setting the marriage up for failure and (ironically) it sets a bad example for the child. Maybe the marriage won't be broken up but it's a life of quiet desperation.
Not for me, thanks.

I agree with Beatrix and Mitzi. It definitely sets up a failure. Who wants a life of that kind of hell? Who wants to always be 2nd in someone's life? And Darwinism, or wotever is just an excuse. I'm SO glad I'll never be shitting one out.

Hm.. In sitting here reading this thread, it occurs to me that this "Once Bred" person seems like a pretty decent person to me. She seems somewhat empathetic and sensitive to the behaviors we as CFers all abhor. That said, I started wondering..

What is the mission of this site?

If it's to vent anger, then the track this thread has taken is spot-on.

If it's to calmly and rationally discuss issues with all comers (and a few flaming @$$holes) in the hope of winning a few hearts and minds, then this thread is like a cup of vinegar thrown in the face of what seems like a pretty reasonable person (Once Bred).

I'll just leave it at that and see what peoples' views of the end game are.

-- mike

From the forum guidelines:

Q I'm a parent. May I post here?
A Yes and no. Because there are so few childfree sites, I want to make sure that this is another place for support and discussion for the CF. If you're going to bingo us, troll/flame, or tell us what a good parent you are, no you may not. If you post here without mentioning your parental status, noone will know you're a parent, will they?

As I stated in my previous post, she was doing fairly well, then the bingoing started. She sealed her fate when she dragged out the "My child is more important that my husband" rot.
If you replace your significant other with a child you are asking for trouble. Every time.

"If it's to vent anger"

Mike...well DUH, it's a RANT board.