This is what I am PO'd about!

I know a lady in town who admitted that she only started enjoying sex after FIVE years of marriage. This woman is a churchgoer and has two kids. That means her husband was just banging away as she lied there as she was probably taught by her own moo. I wish I could say this was the FIRST time I heard such a thing. Not so.

In the San Francisco Bay Area back in 1989, I heard the same at a marriage prep class when my former husband and I were planning marriage in the horrid Catholic Church, something I would never do again. I no longer go to church or believe in the Holy Babble. In the class, the uber-moo leading it said how her friend (another Catholic moomie of many sprogs) also did not enjoy sex for the first five years of marriage.

I was hacked off then when I heard this shit since the forced-birth moo acted like this was fucking normal. Gee...what a nice way to start a marriage: feeling like one's pussy is just a cumbucket while lying there and wondering if any good feeling will be there. I hope both women taught their daughters differently but get the feeling that this is not the case and these young women will be taught horrible shit about normal sexuality.

I was bugged when I heard this from a friend about month back (the lady I mentioned in the first paragraph). I just kept my big mouth shut. What was I going to say -- that her mother was an ignorant sow for not teaching her daughter about pleasure and her husband was an insensitive jerk for only caring about his own ejaculation? I doubt any of these guys would give their wives oral sex thinking it was "dirty" to put their tongues "down there".

I notice it is moos who claim how it took awhile to learn to enjoy sexuality rather than childfree women. Sure...we had to learn after the first time when it is awkward but most of us are sexually mature when marrying or having a relationship.

*Shakes head.*

Women today (no, ever since who knows?) have been taught NOT ever to be selfish or even to think for themselves. They're supposed to give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give without as much a worry about themselves at all. That's how we view women.

We want their time, their bodies, their tits, their milk, their pussies, their babies, their etc. etc. We want, want, want, want, want...you know how it goes.=P

That is why most women get old, frumpy, tired, homely, bovine, etc. "before their time" and that's also WHY Red Hat Society was formed to get little old ladies interested in LIFE again.

At least IMHO, that is.

Banshee Wrote:
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> *Shakes head.*
>
> Women today (no, ever since who knows?) have been
> taught NOT ever to be selfish or even to think for
> themselves. They're supposed to give, give, give,
> give, give, give, give, give, give, give without
> as much a worry about themselves at all. That's
> how we view women.
>
That's pretty much been the case for...forever. Women are the nurturing mother giver goddesses, and men are the hunting warrior bread winners. If a woman wants to do for herself she's a bitch, a man eater, cold, frigid and possibly (gasp!) a lesbian! If a man wants to be have emotions he's a sissy, a pansy, limp wristed, weak or (the horror!) a gay!

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Banshee Wrote:
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> We want their time, their bodies, their tits,
> their milk, their pussies, their babies, their
> etc. etc. We want, want, want, want, want...you
> know how it goes.=P
>

However, we are viewed as "sluts" if we want those certain body parts to experience sexual pleasure. What really made me PO'd is how this lady I know acted as if this was so normal. I am almost certain that she has had to learn how to enjoy sex solely on her husband's terms and has never admitted to what she may like when it comes to intimacy. I have always said, "Fuck that," :yeah to this self-sacrificing shit!

to be fair.. some women do fake.. and some relatively well..

not that they .... but then again i wouldnt know especially if they fake it too well. personally i would rather be told how to do it right than have someone fake it. in part i would agree some men are well useless and uncaring, but also some women dont actually tell a man if he does it right or wrong..

for me i would rather give pleasure than take it.. my needs are secondary, more so because rowan doesnt want any kids and i can be dangerous in that way.... but thats just me i get my pleasure from seeing other people have pleasure.

and feh some of the worst people who do these stereotypes are from the same sex.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

"However, we are viewed as "sluts" if we want those certain body parts to experience sexual pleasure. What really made me PO'd is how this lady I know acted as if this was so normal."

For some reason, society and religion believe Pleasure = selfish. Then you get the whole "real women aren't selfish" so women aren't supposed to experience pleasure. I think the reasoning is if you can experience guilt-free pleasure in the real world the why would anyone believe in, and work towards, the "pleasures of heaven"? Religion needs all people to feel guilty about pleasure so they can maintain their membership, they just put it on women more because if you control the women, you grow the membership.

Women are supposed to "fake it" for their husbands "pleasure". A real man can make any woman "cum" with his penis, and a real woman is supposed to "cum" when a penis is introduced. Seriously, period end of story. If you aren't real by their definition, then you need to fake it so no one is the wiser and you'll fit in better. If you get into too many details then you know too much about sex, and that's bad because of the selfish pleasure aspect.

None of this is about actual pleasure, it's about fulfilling the roles assigned to you by some external entity like religion, society or whatever. When you're pounding away at your-square-self to fit into the round-role set up for you, you are much easier to control, because you aren't thinking for yourself, you're just miserably trying to fit in to something you'll never be fully comfortable in.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Amethusos, it isn't just the Catholic church. I have known of mothers raised in other conservative churches who taught their daughters the same thing: that marital sex is the wife's "duty" to her husband and she shouldn't expect to enjoy it. I can't see where that can be a healthy thing to teach any child, on a number of levels.

Of course, this might explain that famous scene in When Harry Met Sally...

k-man Wrote:
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> Amethusos, it isn't just the Catholic church. I
> have known of mothers raised in other conservative
> churches who taught their daughters the same
> thing: that marital sex is the wife's "duty" to
> her husband and she shouldn't expect to enjoy it.
> I can't see where that can be a healthy thing to
> teach any child, on a number of levels.

The woman I know here in JAX, FL is not Catholic. That was the first woman I mentioned. This woman is Episcopalian. Nice enough woman but does have that bit of rigidity in her personality. It is not religious but just how she is...probably still the sex issue. I feel sorry for her teen daughter who is probably learning the same shit.

It's crazy shit, there is STILL that notion that the wife is there strictly to serve and please the husband. And thanks to the lazy SAHM's of this country, all the strides women have made in the last 100 years is undermined every time someone sees a cow pushing a baby carriage mid-day when her ass should be at some type of job.

I've worked with men who had SAHM wives and they are the biggest pain in the ass in the work place. They are slobs in the kitchen and treat the women in the office like they are insignificant.

I had it out once with 2 of them years back at an old job and I can tell you, I never had a problem with them ever again. Guess they weren't used to a woman mouthing back at them when they acted like pricks.

Thanks you fucking breeders!

I don't think its a problem in specific religions, I think it's a problem in most, if not all, major organized religions.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

its more like the culture that venerates , rather than religion, religion is one of the worst culprits, but governments, societies in general put the onus on birth is a duty. we have to have enough children to pay for your pensions etc.. duty.. you have to breed intelligent people .. duty.. the duty to the state must be paramount. in nazi germany, they have leibensborn camps, they kidnapped and brainwashed "aryan" babies for the state.. duty to the state was everything.. state and church cna be seen as so interlinked, as to be indivisible. in russia now they have baby camps. love armies.. all to power the state.. is there any real difference.

same thing just slightly different ways.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Sad to hear how many women don't enjoy sex. I'm pretty sure my mother is one of them. She's now in her 80's and widowed for almost 15 years. No question in my mind that she will not date anyone, ever. She's scared that a man would want sex! Horrors!

Once I was watching the call-in sex talkshow on Oxygen network, the one with the un-faze-able nurse. Mom was in the room. Someone called with a question about oral sex, and Mom about freaked out. "What kind of people DO that?" she asked.

I had to turn my head so she wouldn't see me blushing. "Geez, Mom, I don't know!" God forbid, I might be one of THOSE people!

Dad once told me, "Your mother is a very straitlaced woman." An understatement for sure...

That's because women are raised to believe that, if they're even just curious about sex, never mind enjoying it, they're whores.

Medusa Wrote:
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> That's because women are raised to believe that,
> if they're even just curious about sex, never mind
> enjoying it, they're whores.

That is the truth! Most women are raised to believe that sex is a dirty thing with the exception of marriage. How does a woman go from believing that having sexual feelings is filthy to suddenly being a sex kitten on her wedding night??? Many ladies are taught that a good marriage for her is to raise children to pay for pensions via being McJobbers just as Mercurior suggested.

A lot of women in the age group of this woman I mentioned in my rant probably said, "Yes," to the first guy who asked her to marry him. Dating around or having sexual relations before marriage was not an option to her. Being an Episcopalian, which is often more liberal than Catholicism, did not help this woman. It is still the Christian attitude of being obedient to her husband and having those babies. Enjoying sexual pleasure makes them feel whorish.

Women today are still odd about publicly asking about sex. When I worked many X-mases in bookstores as a secondary job, women would act very secretive when buying books regarding sexuality. Yet, the men proudly plopped down their Playboys and Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Model calenders thinking they were "owed" the overly-sexual supermodel even if they were below-average looking guys.

so who is really to blame for women not embracing their sexuality, their sensuality. the women themselves, or men. but a lot of people will blame men, for the actions of women. women can do no wrong.

if a woman refuses to accept that she can be a sensual creature, then thats HER decision. but the difference is men dont feel shame, women do and that shame comes from within a person not an external source. as from what you said ame. why is that.. are men controlling womens every actions.. no because the women are buying the books on their own behalf.

if they dont then its their fault. people can change how they act IF THEY WANT TOO. going back to the original feminists they chose to change. whats changed since then.. women are not embracing the freedoms, so who is really to blame..

(of course they will blame men, and religion, and everyone else apart from themselves).

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
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> so who is really to blame for women not embracing
> their sexuality, their sensuality. the women
> themselves, or men. but a lot of people will
> blame men, for the actions of women. women can do
> no wrong.

This is not about women not doing any wrong.

> if a woman refuses to accept that she can be a
> sensual creature, then thats HER decision. but
> the difference is men dont feel shame, women do
> and that shame comes from within a person not an
> external source. as from what you said ame. why
> is that.. are men controlling womens every
> actions.. no because the women are buying the
> books on their own behalf.
>
> if they dont then its their fault. people can
> change how they act IF THEY WANT TOO. going back
> to the original feminists they chose to change.
> whats changed since then.. women are not embracing
> the freedoms, so who is really to blame..

A lot of ideas are ingrained since childhood. It is hard to overcome some attitude. Would you place the blame on a male victim if he still had issues in adulthood from abuse or to be embarrassed by who he is as a person? Many men are also mentally damaged by religion or their families.

> (of course they will blame men, and religion, and
> everyone else apart from themselves).

Religion should take a big part of the blame as most organized religion has oppressed the people. I am glad you were able to take what you wanted from the Church and leave the rest. Perhaps you should give seminars re: female issues since you seem so enlightened. Let me know when you plan to do so...

its called critical thinking, learning for yourself.

but a lot of ideas ingrained since childhood can be beaten, i was brought up catholic. but I thought about religion and saw the fallacies.

ame its called learning to think for yourself. and not rely on what you are told. critical thinking. and yes i am more enlightened, because guess what my wife is a woman, i have more female friends than males, i listen i hear i give logical thought i dont rely on emotions. my mum is a woman, i use my thinking patterns which can be learned but not taught. to the benefit of others.

is it a failing of the women who feel shame in buying books about sexuality, when men dont.. no. men have realised there is nothing wrong with buying it.

not everything is to be blamed on religion, on men, on society some of it lies within the human heart. if a person doesnt want to change when given the opportunity to.. then thats their decision.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ame its called learning to think for yourself. and
> not rely on what you are told. critical thinking.
> and yes i am more enlightened, because guess what
> my wife is a woman, i have more female friends
> than males, i listen i hear i give logical thought
> i dont rely on emotions. my mum is a woman, i use
> my thinking patterns which can be learned but not
> taught. to the benefit of others.

Glad to hear marriage has made you so enlightened. Interesting to know your mum is a woman. I never thought of that...duh! Please forgive any ignorance on my part...

i was enlightened b4 that, i have women around me all the time, its not hard to feel them. because i dont take anything for granted. some of my best friends are women, i am their uncle mart, the guy to come too with their male problems, i am the can find it guy. i empathise with them, i read them i discuss things with them.. so just because i am male i dont even care about women. that is an idiotic idea.

(of course its insults now.. i think whats best for everyone. not just the male species, or the female.. but for all. equality for all.)

there isnt a conspiracy to keep women down in the kitchen bare foot and pregnant.

if my mum can learn to think, if so many other women can learn how to think for themselves.. why cant some.. and they will blame anyone but themselves for their choices.

try thinking ame. not just using prejudged ideas that all roman catholics are breeder brains.. and use the every sperm is sacred, or all men or whatever.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Eeevery sperm is saaaacred
Every sperm is great
Iiiif a sperm gets waaasted
God gets quite irate.

Lol.

but newbie.. not all catholics are like that.. i was born RC, yet i use condoms, rowan was born RC, she wants to be tubal tied. we may have a pope, but we are not sheeple we dont have to obey him on pain of eternal damnation. we do have brains some of us.. i dont go to church because they promised to help when my dad died and they didnt.. so i refused to go in.. i havent been in a church in 16 years. not for anything. even b4 then i didnt beleive but the hymns were nice, some of the people. there was one RC brother he was the nearest thing to a saint i had met, he was over 90 he knew me, my brother and everyone else. and everyone in town looked out for him.. because he was a wonderful person. was he evil for being a RC brother.. no.. thats the myth thats passed on by religious bigots that since one person says something ina church that church is controlling women.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> try thinking ame. not just using prejudged ideas
> that all roman catholics are breeder brains.. and
> use the every sperm is sacred, or all men or
> whatever.

I do think for myself which is what prompted the rant. I am no longer a part of the Roman Catholic Church...another part of thinking. Too many are breeder brains or just go along to get along to be a part of the faith, which is lying to one's self. I do thank you for advising me to think. It is good of you to believe I needed you help. Again...thank-you so much.

not everyone is the same ame.. not all men are cheaters, not all rc priests are pedophiles. not all roman catholic people dont use condoms, not all put women down. which is what your posts seem to intimate. not all asian women are users,

but sometimes your posts gives the impression that you blame all these people for everything thats wrong with the world. a persons choice is just that their choice, if they dont choose to change themselves and are "content" in their own existence however wrong you feel it is.. then it has nothing to do with you.

you cannot force change onto people. you can educate and give the people the chance to know there is another path.. but you cant push them down it. Many people have lifestyles that are the opposite of yours, and they are happy in themselves. isnt that the whole thing about freedom of choice. we may have ingrained beleifs, i fight every day, i fight myself.. i dont have to follow what my nature tells me.. its an internal decision. i used to feel ashamed of many things, but i chose not to be ashamed anymore. and i am happy.

i made an inventory of who i was and i found the real me, which a lot of people should do. but a lot wont. thats how i became enlightened.. and an arguer for equality for all, and the freedom of personal choice

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Why is it that many of these threads becomes men vs. women. It seems like you to tend to make it out that way a lot Merc. Men who plop down those swimsuit calendars and Playboy are NOT enlightened. They are conditioned to think with their cocks even more than they actually do.

at least they dont feel the shame that is an entirely personal feeling.

shame is something thats taught by society, i argue from the point that not all men are bad, not all women are bad not all religions are bad. unfortunatly some people see that one thing is evil/good and there are no shades.

in the case of religion, only the recent converts are so blind to the reality that you dont have to obey everything someone says.

i was only trying to give perspective. if thats seen as being a male vs female then ok, but when a woman starts insulting men, putting them all in the same category, prejudging them because they are male. then a man has to stand up and say look maybe not all men are like that. if no male ever said anything to stand up for themselves ,then like some other boards this one will become a man hating board. and you will push the cf males away. That is not equality, that is misandry. men have the same rights, and yet when we stand up for ourselves we are knuckle dragging monsters. So what about women who buy womens porn magazines, they apparently should only think with their.. hormones?? thats crap.

so men are not entitled to look at women, and get pleasure from it. but hang on isnt that the same thing as women going into bookshops and buying the books and feeling shame. and men only follow their hormones.. but isnt that the same argument as those unenlightened men who claim women follow their hormones.

its like me saying all women are money grabbing whores.. from me knowing 5 of them. thats just as wrong. i never start the posts, if i see an obvious unfounded male hatred isnt it right i should stand up for those men, just like you stand up for it when women have unfounded female hatred put on them.

yes there are some idiot men, but theres an equal amount of idiot women, there is female hatred, and there is male hatred. why is it wrong to say its not fair for people to bash men. when its ok to say its unfair for people to bash women.

this kind of prejudice against men, only creates more hatred, the very thing you should be combatting. but then again, a lot of people blame men for everything. to stand up for your rights as a male must mean you are wanting women to be less than partners less than equal.

as you may see in the posts. I never start with the female hatred, i only reply to the male hatred. and show that maybe not all men are bad people. maybe not all RC's are evil woman haters.

i was trying to give a balance. since men feel they cant speak out without getting labled woman haters. or insulted. i dare speak out, and say it maybe be wrong to blame men, religion, women for every ill that occurs.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein