Choosing to have a deaf child via IVF??

this is a story in the UK, a lot of it is waffle, but it centres around a case where a deaf couple, want a deaf child, they are doing ivf, so they want to choose deaf child over hearing. i have known some deaf people, went to school with a deaf girl, the sister of a girl in my class. but to choose it.


'Creating a deaf child IS immoral and no parent should be allowed to choose this for their child'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=531170&in_page_id=1770


Unlike the couple who are currently fighting for the right to ensure they have a deaf child through IVF, my parents never once considered Jeremy's deafness to be a good thing, which would make him part of a culture, a distinct ethnic group, with an identity and language which should be celebrated.

If my parents could have prevented Jeremy's deafness, they would surely have done so.

They most certainly would not have actively chosen this fate for their only son.

While parents can screen out deaf embryos to make sure their child isn't born deaf, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill, scheduled to go through the Commons this spring, will make it impossible for people undergoing IVF to ensure that their children are deaf.

Some deaf people think this is unjust and discriminatory.

The couple fighting for the right to have another deaf child celebrated when their first child was born deaf and now want another deaf child to complete their family.

They claim they're not disabled, but part of a linguistic minority and they're proud of their language - sign language - and their deaf community.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

That's peachy that they're proud of their deafness, but to inflict the condition on someone else for the sole purpose of feeling more like family is just sick. I know it was possible for people to make designer babies, but intentionally making disabled kids is just fucked-up.

I admit I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to how those who cannot hear function in life - can they even hold down jobs? Or do they claim disability? I can't imagine anyone hiring someone who could only communicate through an interpreter. I have absolutely nothing against anyone with disabilities, but I imagine most employers are reluctant to hire someone who cannot use all their senses.

This happened on an episode of Law and Order, I believe...deaf couples preferring that their child be born deaf. It must be a real issue within the deaf community, or something.

As a person with a disability, I'm very against the idea that disabled people need to be "fixed" in some way, like we're broken. We're certainly not. But WANTING your child to be disabled? Kinda weird, and not very fair to the child.

This doesnt shock me, breeders are the most vile selfish people on the planet.

Selfish, vile, self-righteous, self-centered, entitled, and stupid.

Actually there is a huge rift within the deaf community about screening out/curing deafness vs. accepting themselves as a unique community with it's own language and cultural norms. They can go to school, work and support themselves. (check out Evelyn Glennie - a classical musician) And lots of deaf people aren't totally deaf, but do have very limited hearing.

I don't care either way if deaf people have children, but I am curious if this particular family would abort a hearing fetus in favor of trying again and again for a deaf fetus, like a family trying for a child of a certain gender. Now that I think about it, that would be one instance when I would not be pro-abortion, unless these types of people also got sterilizations with their abortions.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Why not LET a deaf child be born naturally instead of screening it out, if they want a deaf kid so badly?

If not, how about adopting a deaf kid somewhere?

Cambion wrote:
That's peachy that they're proud of their deafness, but to inflict the condition on someone else for the sole purpose of feeling more like family is just sick. I know it was possible for people to make designer babies, but intentionally making disabled kids is just fucked-up.

Agreed.
I would argue that deaf people are NOT a linguistic minority. Their fucking ears don't work. THAT'S IT. Couldn't they just teach the kid sign language anyways? They'd have to to get along, duh. I hope they get smacked down. These people aren't fit to raise ANY kid, even one that's not theirs.

Just goes to show you: A breeder is a breeder is a breeder.

Feh Wrote:
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> Actually there is a huge rift within the deaf
> community about screening out/curing deafness vs.
> accepting themselves as a unique community with
> it's own language and cultural norms. They can go
> to school, work and support themselves. (check
> out Evelyn Glennie - a classical musician) And
> lots of deaf people aren't totally deaf, but do
> have very limited hearing.

You beat me to this one as I was going to post pretty much the same thing. When I still lived in the SF Bay Area, I noticed how the deaf community is a sub-culture of their own. Many deaf people marry other deaf people. Interesting group of people. They are more than self-sufficient.

Yeah, where is Jim? Did he ever come back? Did he ever make any comment after asking for advice about his situation?

IIRC, I said something like, it's good if you can treat each other with respect while you are breaking up, but watch your back every minute. I'm female, but I see firsthand how treacherous females can be when they are Hungry For Seed(TM). Many women think they are entitled to have children and men should have no say. I hear these bitches talk to each other about their "oopsies" and they stay stuff like, "Well, you were having sex, what did he expect would happen?" Forgetting, of course, that lied about taking birth control.

If I were a man I wouldn't have sex until I was snipped. Jacking off is worse than being oopsed.

bell_flower Wrote:
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> If I were a man I wouldn't have sex until I was
> snipped. Jacking off is worse than being oopsed.

Sexuality attitudes are pretty warped if masturbation is considered worse than being trapped into fatherhood by an "oopser". At least with Rosie Palm and her 5 Sisters, the urges are satisfied with no consequences. Men and women have natural sexual desires. To claim no sex until a permanent method of contraception is pretty unrealistic. It is similar to only wanting teenagers to be taught abstinence as a method of birth control. Many years back, a surgeon general - I believe - was forced to resign when she suggested self-gratification as a suggestion to teens to prevent pregnancy and/or disease. Personally, I feel pleasuring one's self is often better than dealing with the risk of pregnancy, disease, or being emotionally hurt if one is not with a partner or just does not want to deal with dating. A man's right hand is better than trying to go the no sex route only to get really horny and end up with a baby on the way...,

Masturbation is cheap, clean, convenient, and free of any possibility of wrongdoing — and you don't have to go home in the cold. But it's lonely.

robert a heinlein.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Masturbation is cheap, clean, convenient, and free
> of any possibility of wrongdoing — and you don't
> have to go home in the cold. But it's lonely.

Very true!

Masturbation is a temporary solution to satisfy sexual urges. Being "oopsed" is for-fucking-ever. I cannot understand why "jacking off" is considered worse than being tricked into fatherhood. Just my opinion...:cool

I do understand the lonely part.

Sorry guys, that was strictly a mix-up on the author's part. My doorbell was ringing and I was trying to rip that post out. I should have known better.

I meant to write: Jacking off is better than being oopsed any day.

Ya'll should know me pretty well by now. : )

bell_flower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry guys, that was strictly a mix-up on the
> author's part. My doorbell was ringing and I was
> trying to rip that post out. I should have known
> better.
>
> I meant to write: Jacking off is better than
> being oopsed any day.
>
> Ya'll should know me pretty well by now. : )

I was wondering what happened... :spin

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually there is a huge rift within the deaf
> community about screening out/curing deafness vs.
> accepting themselves as a unique community with
> it's own language and cultural norms. They can go
> to school, work and support themselves. (check
> out Evelyn Glennie - a classical musician)
--------------------------------------------------------

Well I don't care what anybody says, I say JUST SAY NO to DEAF MUSICIANS!!! I'm looking at YOU, Britney.

bal-de-vis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually there is a huge rift within the deaf
> > community about screening out/curing deafness
> vs.
> > accepting themselves as a unique community with
> > it's own language and cultural norms. They can
> go
> > to school, work and support themselves. (check
> > out Evelyn Glennie - a classical musician)
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> Well I don't care what anybody says, I say JUST
> SAY NO to DEAF MUSICIANS!!! I'm looking at YOU,
> Britney.

Well, just as long as the whole "curing" thing doesn't turn into something like Gattaca. You know, designer babies.

And BTW, I'm deaf since birth.^_^

No offense was intended to you personally, Banshee............Maybe it’s just the spunk-hating Lou Grant in me, but I find phenomena like Evelyn Glennie more irritating than inspiring. If the tone-deaf shouldn’t be musicians, then the actually deaf shouldn’t be either. I know that she claims not to be quite totally deaf, and that she also claims to hear with her feet(?????). Whatever. To me it’s more like a conjuring trick than anything else. I suspect it’s a feeling that at least some of the posters here might share to an extent: “No, human race, no, children of the world, you CAN’T do absolutely ANYTHING, so how ‘bout just settling down a bit and getting out of our faces and taking your inspiring challenges and shoving them.............and giving some of us some peace and quiet for just a little while?”

FYI, she's a percussionist, and it is entirely possible to feel that sort of sound through your feet, as well as other parts of your body.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

In that case, I’m declaring it to the world...........I can see with my gonads!!!! Come one, come all, be inspired as I, completely blindfolded, describe your facial features by touching them with my amazing gonads. It’s true........all things ARE possible!!!

bal-de-vis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In that case, I’m declaring it to the
> world...........I can see with my gonads!!!! Come
> one, come all, be inspired as I, completely
> blindfolded, describe your facial features by
> touching them with my amazing gonads. It’s
> true........all things ARE possible!!!

As long as you tell me that you love me...then I'll do the same and say that I love you.

I'm sorry, but I had to.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

I find what this couple are trying to do an interesting take on the whole "designer babies" issue. What they are basically saying is that they would not be able to love their child if it was not deaf, like them. Which is a horrible thing, however so many people feel its okay to do this in reverse, abort a child that will be different from them. In some cases its right to, when the child will only be suffuring and not have a life. However there is not enough information about many of these disabilities that are used as a reason for abortion. Some of these disabilities are just differences that are hard for "ordinary" people to understand and are not necessarily negative.

The point the Deaf couple are making is that deafness is not a valid reason to want to end/ prevent a life, there are not enough negatives. A person who is not deaf doesn't know what its like to be deaf and therefore cannot make that judgement for them about how valid they are as a human. To say its okay to stop a deaf person living but not okay to stop someone who isn't deaf is saying that deaf people are sub-human.

Being disabled myself i understand their point and agree with parts of it. Being different doesn't mean you are wrong. Some people fear this is a step in the direction of removing ALL imperfections in humanity.