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This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy)
Posted by k-man
k-man
This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
Alex, you'll remember, is the 5-year-old whose teacher polled the kids in his kindergarten class concerning whether he should be allowed to remain in class. He supposedly has an autism spectrum disorder, possibly Asperger's, but he has definitely been disruptive to the class. Here's the natural consequence of failing to rein in bad behavior.
http://www.startribune.com/local/19033344.html
Church bars severely autistic boy from mass
Standing more than six feet tall and weighing more than 225 pounds, 13-year-old Adam Race cuts an imposing figure for his age.
Adam is also severely autistic, and his meltdowns during mass at the Catholic church in Bertha, Minn., have prompted a public battle between the parish priest and Adam's parents.
The Rev. Daniel Walz, disturbed by what he said is Adam's dangerous behavior, filed court papers to bar him from the Church of St. Joseph with a temporary restraining order against his parents. The Races are ignoring the order, which they see as discriminatory, and getting support from advocates for the disabled.
The battle started last summer, according to Adam's mother, Carol Race, when Walz came to the family house along with a church trustee and "made kind of a federal case out of the situation with my son."
The church counters that it "explored and offered many options for accommodations that would assist the family while protecting the safety of parishioners. The family refused those offers of accommodation."
The Races and their five children typically sat in either the church's cry room or in the back pew to avoid disrupting other parishioners since they began attending in 1996, according to Carol Race.
No one had complained to them about Adam until the priest's visit last June, she said.
"He said that we did not discipline our son. He said that our son was physically out of control and a danger to everyone at church," she said. "I can't discipline him out of his autism, and I think that's what our priest is expecting."
The family continued attending mass, she said, trying to calm Adam and leaving during the closing hymn to avoid interacting with other parishioners on the way out.
Months later, after failed attempts to make peace with Walz, the family received a letter asking them to stop bringing Adam to church, Carol said.
The family continued taking him along, however. Then, last week, Carol and her husband, John, were slapped with the restraining order. The following Sunday—Mother's Day—the family brought Adam to church anyway. Carol said a police officer cited her this week and she is scheduled to appear in court Monday.
A call to the parish office was not returned Friday. A statement released by the Diocese of St. Cloud said the church filed the petition "as a last resort out of a growing concern for the safety of parishioners and other community members due to disruptive and violent behavior on the part of that child."
Walz, the church's pastor for three years, said in an affidavit that as Adam has grown, the situation has worsened, and the boy has been "extremely disruptive and dangerous" since last summer.
Walz alleges that Adam struck a child during mass and has nearly knocked elderly people over when he abruptly bolts from church. He also spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights efforts to restrain him, Walz wrote.
The pastor wrote that Adam's parents often sit on him during mass to restrain him, and sometimes bind his hands and feet, pulling a rope under the pew so his father can control the line from behind.
Walz wrote that Adam once pulled an adolescent girl—an exchange student staying with the family—on top of him, grabbing her thighs and buttocks. And, at Easter, Walz alleged, Adam ran from the church, got into the family van and started it, then got into someone else's car, started it and revved up the engine.
"There were people directly in front of the car who could have been injured or killed if he had put the car in gear" Walz wrote.
Carol offered a different perspective. She said her son once brushed against a parishioner who almost lost balance. Adam makes spitting faces but doesn't actually spit, she said, and he has an occasional incontinence problem.
She and John sometimes sit on him because their weight is calming to him, she said. He pulled the exchange student onto his lap for that reason, she said, and wasn't grabbing at her.
They also use soft fleece strips to sometimes bind Adam's hands and occasionally his feet because it calms him, she said.
The Easter incident occurred when Adam got into the driver's seat of a car that had already been started and revved the engine because he's drawn to engines, she said.
The family's request for certain accommodations—such as clearing aisles when the family leaves church—have gone unfulfilled, she said.
Tim Kasemodel of Wayzata, who met the Race family through joint autism advocacy efforts, went with his wife and their autistic son to join the Races at church on Mother's Day.
"What are we supposed to do, literally lock our kids away so no one has to see this for the rest of their lives?" Kasemodel said. "Adam's a big boy and he is intimidating because they don't understand him. Adam makes sounds like any kid, but there were babies making a heck of a lot more ruckus than Adam was."
Brad Trahan, founder of the RT Autism Awareness Foundation in Rochester, has asked the bishop in St. Cloud to rescind the restraining order and the citation "because it isn't going to resolve the situation.
"It's unfathomable and concerns me that we've taken a situation with special needs and we're making it into the criminal matter," Trahan said. Carol, meanwhile, said she hopes the controversy doesn't reflect badly on her church.
"The church isn't bad. But it's what some individuals do within the church," she said.
In 2005, the St. Cloud diocese gave her an award for her efforts to encourage families with disabled children to attend mass, she said. The award cited her "untiring efforts ... to educate and advocate for others who have children with disruptive disabilities such as autism and seek to participate as a total family at Sunday mass."
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K-man back. Since this story appeared, the Races have started going to another church. A sheriff's deputy warned her that if she went to St. Joseph, she would be arrested.
St. Joseph had tried to work with Carol Race. One of the options she had rejected was allowing Adam to watch Mass on a closed-circuit TV screen in the basement of St. Joseph, saying it was vital for the not-so-little turd to be at Mass in person. She is supposed to appear in court today, 2 June, on this matter.
Other stories say that crayons and other belongings of his siblings have to be kept away from Adam at home because he will destroy them. Tell me he doesn't have a severe behavior problem. In addition, Carol says that he has never spit or pissed on anyone. I guess that makes it okay, huh?
Comments about this have been revealing. People who know the Rices say that Carol is a drama queen and a troublemaker. Her husband is autistic (hey, great choice to have children by). One poster claims that a charitable organization helped provide the large farmhouse the Races have.
Also, parishioners say that Adam leaves puddles of piss everywhere and others have walked through them inadvertently. This is more than an "occasional incontinence" problem. Others say they avoid the side of the church where Adam takes Communion because of run-ins with the turd and fears for their safety.
Several people said in the story comments that what the media outlets have reported is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Races and Adam's behavior. There is much more to the story. It seems apparent to me that the family's attempts to control and guide Adam are weak at best, so they want everyone else to have to put up with his BS. And I'm sure his ass has never received the paddling it so richly deserves.
Oh, and get this little tidbit: Carol Race homeskools Adam. Of course! This isn't the blind leading the blind—more like the stupid (or at least really selfish) leading the blind.
By the way, ahe needs to cut down what this kyd eats. Weighing 225 pounds (100 kg) at age 13 is incredible. Talk about a waste of resources!
My favorite quote came from one poster who said something like, "The 'special needs' people have rights; the 'special needs' people also have responsibilities."
Is it just me, or are we seeing an ever-increasing number of chyldren who are doomed to be disruptive, dangerous, and useless for their entire lives? Alex, this is the road you're on, you little rat, unless you take to heart what the other kids in your kindergarten class said about you and your behavior. As for me, I'm getting really sick of bad behavior receiving labels to justify it when it could be potentially well controlled using affirmative discipline and punishment. But we've hashed that topic here before...
http://www.startribune.com/local/19033344.html
Church bars severely autistic boy from mass
Standing more than six feet tall and weighing more than 225 pounds, 13-year-old Adam Race cuts an imposing figure for his age.
Adam is also severely autistic, and his meltdowns during mass at the Catholic church in Bertha, Minn., have prompted a public battle between the parish priest and Adam's parents.
The Rev. Daniel Walz, disturbed by what he said is Adam's dangerous behavior, filed court papers to bar him from the Church of St. Joseph with a temporary restraining order against his parents. The Races are ignoring the order, which they see as discriminatory, and getting support from advocates for the disabled.
The battle started last summer, according to Adam's mother, Carol Race, when Walz came to the family house along with a church trustee and "made kind of a federal case out of the situation with my son."
The church counters that it "explored and offered many options for accommodations that would assist the family while protecting the safety of parishioners. The family refused those offers of accommodation."
The Races and their five children typically sat in either the church's cry room or in the back pew to avoid disrupting other parishioners since they began attending in 1996, according to Carol Race.
No one had complained to them about Adam until the priest's visit last June, she said.
"He said that we did not discipline our son. He said that our son was physically out of control and a danger to everyone at church," she said. "I can't discipline him out of his autism, and I think that's what our priest is expecting."
The family continued attending mass, she said, trying to calm Adam and leaving during the closing hymn to avoid interacting with other parishioners on the way out.
Months later, after failed attempts to make peace with Walz, the family received a letter asking them to stop bringing Adam to church, Carol said.
The family continued taking him along, however. Then, last week, Carol and her husband, John, were slapped with the restraining order. The following Sunday—Mother's Day—the family brought Adam to church anyway. Carol said a police officer cited her this week and she is scheduled to appear in court Monday.
A call to the parish office was not returned Friday. A statement released by the Diocese of St. Cloud said the church filed the petition "as a last resort out of a growing concern for the safety of parishioners and other community members due to disruptive and violent behavior on the part of that child."
Walz, the church's pastor for three years, said in an affidavit that as Adam has grown, the situation has worsened, and the boy has been "extremely disruptive and dangerous" since last summer.
Walz alleges that Adam struck a child during mass and has nearly knocked elderly people over when he abruptly bolts from church. He also spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights efforts to restrain him, Walz wrote.
The pastor wrote that Adam's parents often sit on him during mass to restrain him, and sometimes bind his hands and feet, pulling a rope under the pew so his father can control the line from behind.
Walz wrote that Adam once pulled an adolescent girl—an exchange student staying with the family—on top of him, grabbing her thighs and buttocks. And, at Easter, Walz alleged, Adam ran from the church, got into the family van and started it, then got into someone else's car, started it and revved up the engine.
"There were people directly in front of the car who could have been injured or killed if he had put the car in gear" Walz wrote.
Carol offered a different perspective. She said her son once brushed against a parishioner who almost lost balance. Adam makes spitting faces but doesn't actually spit, she said, and he has an occasional incontinence problem.
She and John sometimes sit on him because their weight is calming to him, she said. He pulled the exchange student onto his lap for that reason, she said, and wasn't grabbing at her.
They also use soft fleece strips to sometimes bind Adam's hands and occasionally his feet because it calms him, she said.
The Easter incident occurred when Adam got into the driver's seat of a car that had already been started and revved the engine because he's drawn to engines, she said.
The family's request for certain accommodations—such as clearing aisles when the family leaves church—have gone unfulfilled, she said.
Tim Kasemodel of Wayzata, who met the Race family through joint autism advocacy efforts, went with his wife and their autistic son to join the Races at church on Mother's Day.
"What are we supposed to do, literally lock our kids away so no one has to see this for the rest of their lives?" Kasemodel said. "Adam's a big boy and he is intimidating because they don't understand him. Adam makes sounds like any kid, but there were babies making a heck of a lot more ruckus than Adam was."
Brad Trahan, founder of the RT Autism Awareness Foundation in Rochester, has asked the bishop in St. Cloud to rescind the restraining order and the citation "because it isn't going to resolve the situation.
"It's unfathomable and concerns me that we've taken a situation with special needs and we're making it into the criminal matter," Trahan said. Carol, meanwhile, said she hopes the controversy doesn't reflect badly on her church.
"The church isn't bad. But it's what some individuals do within the church," she said.
In 2005, the St. Cloud diocese gave her an award for her efforts to encourage families with disabled children to attend mass, she said. The award cited her "untiring efforts ... to educate and advocate for others who have children with disruptive disabilities such as autism and seek to participate as a total family at Sunday mass."
--------------------
K-man back. Since this story appeared, the Races have started going to another church. A sheriff's deputy warned her that if she went to St. Joseph, she would be arrested.
St. Joseph had tried to work with Carol Race. One of the options she had rejected was allowing Adam to watch Mass on a closed-circuit TV screen in the basement of St. Joseph, saying it was vital for the not-so-little turd to be at Mass in person. She is supposed to appear in court today, 2 June, on this matter.
Other stories say that crayons and other belongings of his siblings have to be kept away from Adam at home because he will destroy them. Tell me he doesn't have a severe behavior problem. In addition, Carol says that he has never spit or pissed on anyone. I guess that makes it okay, huh?
Comments about this have been revealing. People who know the Rices say that Carol is a drama queen and a troublemaker. Her husband is autistic (hey, great choice to have children by). One poster claims that a charitable organization helped provide the large farmhouse the Races have.
Also, parishioners say that Adam leaves puddles of piss everywhere and others have walked through them inadvertently. This is more than an "occasional incontinence" problem. Others say they avoid the side of the church where Adam takes Communion because of run-ins with the turd and fears for their safety.
Several people said in the story comments that what the media outlets have reported is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Races and Adam's behavior. There is much more to the story. It seems apparent to me that the family's attempts to control and guide Adam are weak at best, so they want everyone else to have to put up with his BS. And I'm sure his ass has never received the paddling it so richly deserves.
Oh, and get this little tidbit: Carol Race homeskools Adam. Of course! This isn't the blind leading the blind—more like the stupid (or at least really selfish) leading the blind.
By the way, ahe needs to cut down what this kyd eats. Weighing 225 pounds (100 kg) at age 13 is incredible. Talk about a waste of resources!
My favorite quote came from one poster who said something like, "The 'special needs' people have rights; the 'special needs' people also have responsibilities."
Is it just me, or are we seeing an ever-increasing number of chyldren who are doomed to be disruptive, dangerous, and useless for their entire lives? Alex, this is the road you're on, you little rat, unless you take to heart what the other kids in your kindergarten class said about you and your behavior. As for me, I'm getting really sick of bad behavior receiving labels to justify it when it could be potentially well controlled using affirmative discipline and punishment. But we've hashed that topic here before...
Anonymous User
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
A church is a private institution and can discriminate all they want. Whether its right or wrong is irrelevant.
However, this child's situation sounds worse than just autistic. He sounds severely mentally impaired. He probably needs to be institutionalized, especially considering his incontinence and destructive behavior.
However, this child's situation sounds worse than just autistic. He sounds severely mentally impaired. He probably needs to be institutionalized, especially considering his incontinence and destructive behavior.
Anonymous User
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
Guess it proves you cannot always count on what appears on the surface..
Right on the money... again... ..
This is not the first time we've seen it.. nor it will be the last that these moos insist on forcing their defective offspring (or just plain ill-behaved) on everyone else. So, no-one learns anything. According to stats, the majority of attacks on teachers at schools is by 'special ed' students.
I think this kid is plain old fashioned crazy. I don't care if they call it 'nice' names. He's whacko and he will kill someone someday. They have closed down the mental hospitals and they refuse to sterilize them (nice duh you picked moo), so the problem will merely increase in size over the years.
Right on the money... again... ..
This is not the first time we've seen it.. nor it will be the last that these moos insist on forcing their defective offspring (or just plain ill-behaved) on everyone else. So, no-one learns anything. According to stats, the majority of attacks on teachers at schools is by 'special ed' students.
I think this kid is plain old fashioned crazy. I don't care if they call it 'nice' names. He's whacko and he will kill someone someday. They have closed down the mental hospitals and they refuse to sterilize them (nice duh you picked moo), so the problem will merely increase in size over the years.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,073 |
I am assuming the moo thinks the child needs to be in the congregation during mass to help him socialize. If that is so, why is he home schooled? I think we can all agree that the main purpose of mass education is to socialize the participants (for what? I do not know)
Also, couldn't he have watched the mass in a private room, and then participated in the socializing of post-church activities?
Whatever. I've read that for some autistic people, being confined,or feeling a full body pressure actually gives them a feeling of comfort.
"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me
Also, couldn't he have watched the mass in a private room, and then participated in the socializing of post-church activities?
Whatever. I've read that for some autistic people, being confined,or feeling a full body pressure actually gives them a feeling of comfort.
"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me
Catabat
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
"They're taking special needs and making it intoa criminal matter"?
No, they're proactively looking out for everyone's safety and hygiene. It's not going to be very long before this kid assaults someone hard enough to do some real damage, but it's OK because he's special? Tell that to the person he attacks. Hopefully it will be one of his moron parents. If he needs to be restrained in public, then he shouldn't be out in public, and sorry if that offends some politically correct tree hugger, but it's the truth.
If he's homeschooled, he can home indoctrinated too. They have TV channels for that.
No, they're proactively looking out for everyone's safety and hygiene. It's not going to be very long before this kid assaults someone hard enough to do some real damage, but it's OK because he's special? Tell that to the person he attacks. Hopefully it will be one of his moron parents. If he needs to be restrained in public, then he shouldn't be out in public, and sorry if that offends some politically correct tree hugger, but it's the truth.
If he's homeschooled, he can home indoctrinated too. They have TV channels for that.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 3,897 |
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,992 |
The scary part is this kid is only 13 - he's still growing. What happens when he's a 280-pound twenty-something? And what happens when Mommy and Daddy can no longer restrain him? This kid is dangerous, no matter how these morons care to sugar-coat it. He is a very large person already and he definitely has the ability to do some serious, serious damage.
But I'm sure when Junior kills someone, his parents will make sure to blame everyone else except their perfect pweshus misunderstood widdle snowflake...because it couldn't possibly be his fault - he's SPECIAL and didn't know any better and he was just expressing his creativity.
I don't know if the kid is actually autistic or his parents just never disciplined him, but people like him will never ever be productive members of society. Makes me glad I don't live near those freaks - that "mother" should be ashamed of herself, for violating a restraining order to attention-whore for her pweshus widdle mystake, for trying to blow off her kid's assaults on innocent people as him not knowing any better, and for trying to say it's the church's fault. Then again, we're talking about a Moo here, so hoping for her to feel an ounce of hame would be like hoping for a vegetarian to take a big bite out of a goat head.
Part of me is hoping the kid Darwinizes himself - he will do the world no favors by becoming an adult.
But I'm sure when Junior kills someone, his parents will make sure to blame everyone else except their perfect pweshus misunderstood widdle snowflake...because it couldn't possibly be his fault - he's SPECIAL and didn't know any better and he was just expressing his creativity.
I don't know if the kid is actually autistic or his parents just never disciplined him, but people like him will never ever be productive members of society. Makes me glad I don't live near those freaks - that "mother" should be ashamed of herself, for violating a restraining order to attention-whore for her pweshus widdle mystake, for trying to blow off her kid's assaults on innocent people as him not knowing any better, and for trying to say it's the church's fault. Then again, we're talking about a Moo here, so hoping for her to feel an ounce of hame would be like hoping for a vegetarian to take a big bite out of a goat head.
Part of me is hoping the kid Darwinizes himself - he will do the world no favors by becoming an adult.
Anonymous User
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
Anonymous User
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
Nour
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 02, 2008 |
Thanks for posting this k-man.
This woman is CRAZY. Hey, her "boy" got into a vehicle that was already running, so that's OK!!! I wouldn't be surprised if Tubby ends up killing one of his parents. I would have loved to have seen the look on this bint's face when was cited by the police officer.
This woman is CRAZY. Hey, her "boy" got into a vehicle that was already running, so that's OK!!! I wouldn't be surprised if Tubby ends up killing one of his parents. I would have loved to have seen the look on this bint's face when was cited by the police officer.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 4,532 |
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,790 |
I can play a devil's advocate on this one. The congregation does need to be safe when they attend church. No church is required to impose dangerous people on the parishioners. Liability issues are a biggie here as well. Someone could sue if the priests allowed the child to be on property and there was an assault. There are hungry lawyers waiting to take on this one. I also doubt the Catholic Church wants more legal trouble than they already have...
The other side is how the Catholic Church is very anti-abortion/pro-life. Had the woman chose abortion and her church leaders knew, she would have been excommunicated. It would not matter that the child would grow into such an out-of-control tyrant. The woman birthed the baby, which is what the Church demands, and is now banned from services. I still side with safety of others; however, the Church is not off the hook with their forced birth stance. JMNSHO...
The other side is how the Catholic Church is very anti-abortion/pro-life. Had the woman chose abortion and her church leaders knew, she would have been excommunicated. It would not matter that the child would grow into such an out-of-control tyrant. The woman birthed the baby, which is what the Church demands, and is now banned from services. I still side with safety of others; however, the Church is not off the hook with their forced birth stance. JMNSHO...
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 4,402 |
correction, catholic church in america.. in the UK it would never ever happen
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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,790 |
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,790 |
These breeders also do not seem to understand that a church IS indeed private property. The church does have the right to bar anyone who is considered a nuisance or dangerous. There was a man who threatened to punch a friar at the Franciscan retreat center one Sunday during Mass. He got really nutso demanding everyone sit down and listen to some asinine letter he was writing to the Pope. It was during the Mother/Daughter Retreat. People in the area also came to Mass. Everyone went running out in a panic. I was there and pulled an old lady out. The Sheriff's Department was out. I wish charges had been pressed but the guy claimed to be off his meds and promised not to return.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 4,402 |
well i see it. it all began when the puritans left.. they were more puritinical than the ones here.. the more zealous, are mostly in america because they have that history of a non organised religion.. no monitoring of religion.
so any crap can be spouted. I also think its because america is young.. its still trying to find its way, the roman catholic church is over 1400 years old. we have had time to.. settle down.. we have a state religion, church of england, and the nutters are absorbed into those, and the more reasonable ones sort of look on them as that daft old uncle who says the frogs are stalking me, not dangerous just eccentric and we take no notice of those idiots.
(not that i am saying america is bad for being young, just a little naive when it comes to some parts of religion)
this goes into details..
http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/03/07/112454/
Given all these caveats, is it ever possible, practically speaking, for a woman to be excommunicated for having an abortion? Of course. A woman who is Catholic, over the age of 16, aware that the penalty of excommunication is attached to this crime, fully aware of what an abortion actually entails, and completely free from outside pressures to make this choice, meets the criteria for excommunication
but the chances of all those things being in place and some are very very grey.. full aware.. completely free of outside pressures.. you cant define those things. so its pretty useless.
it is a little breederific, but it does explain a few of the myths..
you could have a grave fear of having a child.. then you cant be.. its when people read or only know part of the story and make snap judgments.. thats the state of the problem
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
so any crap can be spouted. I also think its because america is young.. its still trying to find its way, the roman catholic church is over 1400 years old. we have had time to.. settle down.. we have a state religion, church of england, and the nutters are absorbed into those, and the more reasonable ones sort of look on them as that daft old uncle who says the frogs are stalking me, not dangerous just eccentric and we take no notice of those idiots.
(not that i am saying america is bad for being young, just a little naive when it comes to some parts of religion)
this goes into details..
http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/03/07/112454/
Given all these caveats, is it ever possible, practically speaking, for a woman to be excommunicated for having an abortion? Of course. A woman who is Catholic, over the age of 16, aware that the penalty of excommunication is attached to this crime, fully aware of what an abortion actually entails, and completely free from outside pressures to make this choice, meets the criteria for excommunication
but the chances of all those things being in place and some are very very grey.. full aware.. completely free of outside pressures.. you cant define those things. so its pretty useless.
it is a little breederific, but it does explain a few of the myths..
you could have a grave fear of having a child.. then you cant be.. its when people read or only know part of the story and make snap judgments.. thats the state of the problem
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
str8six
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 |
As usual, outstanding points have been raised.
I just cannot wrap my fucking brain around the fact that this woman thinks it's actually OK to bring her fuck-tard kid into a Sunday service!
And I'm getting really tired of hearing the parents of these nature-rejects make such the far left-field statement of: "what do they want us to do, lock the kid up in the basement"? Why no you stupid cunt, just don't take them to a goddammed mass you dumb whore!!! :scr
I just cannot wrap my fucking brain around the fact that this woman thinks it's actually OK to bring her fuck-tard kid into a Sunday service!
And I'm getting really tired of hearing the parents of these nature-rejects make such the far left-field statement of: "what do they want us to do, lock the kid up in the basement"? Why no you stupid cunt, just don't take them to a goddammed mass you dumb whore!!! :scr
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 3,897 |
Exactly, they always have to take it to the extreme just to make the other party look bad. If you ask a parent to remove their kid from a situation, right away you're the fucking Devil and the accusations start. And they ALWAYS take the extreme offense, as if you've just shit in their mouth or something.
Kind of like bingoing, but on a different level.
Kind of like bingoing, but on a different level.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 4,100 |
Cambion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The scary part is this kid is only 13 - he's still
> growing. What happens when he's a 280-pound
> twenty-something? And what happens when Mommy and
> Daddy can no longer restrain him? This kid is
> dangerous, no matter how these morons care to
> sugar-coat it. He is a very large person already
> and he definitely has the ability to do some
> serious, serious damage.
Gawds, that reminds me of an office job I had about a decade ago. The owner let his son work there - and this dude was, like, early 20s and 300 pounds. And I don't know if it was Autism or what, but he would get violent for no reason and was just really scary.
One day, the bastard boss actually held a meeting with the whole staff to instruct us on how to deal with his overgrown, dangerous brat. Can you believe that?
I was terrified every fucking day there, especially if I ended up alone in the filing room with him. I was afraid he would rape or kill me. He used to practically throw stuff at my head instead of putting it on my desk. I can't believe I put up with it for 5 months and didn't sue the hell out of those people; but I guess I was too young and inexperienced to know my rights.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The scary part is this kid is only 13 - he's still
> growing. What happens when he's a 280-pound
> twenty-something? And what happens when Mommy and
> Daddy can no longer restrain him? This kid is
> dangerous, no matter how these morons care to
> sugar-coat it. He is a very large person already
> and he definitely has the ability to do some
> serious, serious damage.
Gawds, that reminds me of an office job I had about a decade ago. The owner let his son work there - and this dude was, like, early 20s and 300 pounds. And I don't know if it was Autism or what, but he would get violent for no reason and was just really scary.
One day, the bastard boss actually held a meeting with the whole staff to instruct us on how to deal with his overgrown, dangerous brat. Can you believe that?
I was terrified every fucking day there, especially if I ended up alone in the filing room with him. I was afraid he would rape or kill me. He used to practically throw stuff at my head instead of putting it on my desk. I can't believe I put up with it for 5 months and didn't sue the hell out of those people; but I guess I was too young and inexperienced to know my rights.
Mean Person
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 03, 2008 |
Holy shit! Now, I was VERY quick to blast that teacher who had her students gang up on the looney-wog, but this is outrageous. This lunatic oaf is a fucking loaded gun and has clearly demonstrated that he can't be trusted amongst the general population. I don't know what his specific diagnosis is, but he's clearly an overly-indulged nutjob. And the homeschooling? Whaddya bet they tried to "mainstream" the kid and yanked him when the school suggested that he be medicated?
I don't care why he grabbed that girl's ass. It doesn't matter if he thought he was saving the human race and guaranteeing a front-row seat at concert with God. He still grabbed her ass.
And what's this "he's drawn to engines" justification crap? Again, intent is not relevant here! He's liable to kill someone. He's drawn to engines? Pull your head out of your ass, moo. Tell it to the judge.
I don't care why he grabbed that girl's ass. It doesn't matter if he thought he was saving the human race and guaranteeing a front-row seat at concert with God. He still grabbed her ass.
And what's this "he's drawn to engines" justification crap? Again, intent is not relevant here! He's liable to kill someone. He's drawn to engines? Pull your head out of your ass, moo. Tell it to the judge.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 04, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,790 |
Medusa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gawds, that reminds me of an office job I had
> about a decade ago. The owner let his son work
> there - and this dude was, like, early 20s and 300
> pounds. And I don't know if it was Autism or what,
> but he would get violent for no reason and was
> just really scary.
>
> One day, the bastard boss actually held a meeting
> with the whole staff to instruct us on how to deal
> with his overgrown, dangerous brat. Can you
> believe that?
>
> I was terrified every fucking day there,
> especially if I ended up alone in the filing room
> with him. I was afraid he would rape or kill me.
> He used to practically throw stuff at my head
> instead of putting it on my desk. I can't believe
> I put up with it for 5 months and didn't sue the
> hell out of those people; but I guess I was too
> young and inexperienced to know my rights.
Medusa, I do not know what Canadian law is re: harassment and danger on the job. In the US, the employer would have been liable had this man assaulted another employee. No one should have to go to work in fear of being raped or killed. I know the feeling of being too young and inexperienced to know what rights I had as an employee. Sexual harassment often is targetted at the young or desperate for those exact reasons.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gawds, that reminds me of an office job I had
> about a decade ago. The owner let his son work
> there - and this dude was, like, early 20s and 300
> pounds. And I don't know if it was Autism or what,
> but he would get violent for no reason and was
> just really scary.
>
> One day, the bastard boss actually held a meeting
> with the whole staff to instruct us on how to deal
> with his overgrown, dangerous brat. Can you
> believe that?
>
> I was terrified every fucking day there,
> especially if I ended up alone in the filing room
> with him. I was afraid he would rape or kill me.
> He used to practically throw stuff at my head
> instead of putting it on my desk. I can't believe
> I put up with it for 5 months and didn't sue the
> hell out of those people; but I guess I was too
> young and inexperienced to know my rights.
Medusa, I do not know what Canadian law is re: harassment and danger on the job. In the US, the employer would have been liable had this man assaulted another employee. No one should have to go to work in fear of being raped or killed. I know the feeling of being too young and inexperienced to know what rights I had as an employee. Sexual harassment often is targetted at the young or desperate for those exact reasons.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 04, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,790 |
This thread brings back when I used to be Catholic and taught CCD. A special-ed type teacher was brought in for a boy who probably was autistic. This was back in 1990. The teacher only taught that boy but he was on the same day as most of the other first graders. Honestly...I do not know why the parents would put the child and the rest of the church through the ordeal. It WAS scary for the other children to see this behaviour. Before all of the teachers would take their kids to their classrooms, the DRE (Director of Religious Ed) would have announcements. The boy would scream and carry on. The special-ed teacher almost had to sit on the kid once. There was no way in hell -- pardon the pun -- that this out-of-control, mentally ill child was going to learn any of the CCD materials or know of the sacraments.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 04, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,790 |
Mean Person Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't care why he grabbed that girl's ass. It
> doesn't matter if he thought he was saving the
> human race and guaranteeing a front-row seat at
> concert with God. He still grabbed her ass.
That had to have been horrifying for the exchange student to be sexually assaulted by this lunatic boy. It does not matter the age of this kid at this point. The girl who was staying with this family is supposed to be protected from predatory behaviour. I would hope the teenager did report this when she got back to her country and the agency involved with exchange students blocked this family from having other visitors.
>
> And what's this "he's drawn to engines"
> justification crap? Again, intent is not relevant
> here! He's liable to kill someone. He's drawn to
> engines? Pull your head out of your ass, moo. Tell
> it to the judge.
The moo is a sick bitch to insist that her sprog be imposed onto the church. If something happens, the mother should be locked up as well.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't care why he grabbed that girl's ass. It
> doesn't matter if he thought he was saving the
> human race and guaranteeing a front-row seat at
> concert with God. He still grabbed her ass.
That had to have been horrifying for the exchange student to be sexually assaulted by this lunatic boy. It does not matter the age of this kid at this point. The girl who was staying with this family is supposed to be protected from predatory behaviour. I would hope the teenager did report this when she got back to her country and the agency involved with exchange students blocked this family from having other visitors.
>
> And what's this "he's drawn to engines"
> justification crap? Again, intent is not relevant
> here! He's liable to kill someone. He's drawn to
> engines? Pull your head out of your ass, moo. Tell
> it to the judge.
The moo is a sick bitch to insist that her sprog be imposed onto the church. If something happens, the mother should be locked up as well.
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Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 04, 2008 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 4,532 |
Anonymous User
Re: This will be poor widdle autistic Alex in 8 years (church bans 13-year-old autistic boy) June 04, 2008 |
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