Sorry, breeders. I have no qualms about 'getting away with it'.

Quote
milenascarlet
When they encounter people who feel just as happy without doing the same thing, they start to question their choices and think about all they lost doing it. It's like "I did everything I was supposed to do but they look happier/more fulfilled/more rewarded than I do? I did what was right! I got married, had a bunch of kids, raised them right and yet I feel like I missed something big."

Quote
grammarnut
I've tried to explain this to my mom and her partner, both of whom have children, and they just don't seem to get the concept.

I explain that babies are naturally selfish because it helps/helped them survive (evolution) and they look at me like I'm nuts.

I'm "negative" when I explain that even acts like donating to the poor can be selfish because the person in question gets rewarded for it in the form of self-gratification, so the act is, therefore, NOT altruistic.

This isn't bad -- it's simply a fact.

Quote
Presto
The longer I live, the more delighted I am to be "getting away with it"!

Before I was married, I was still marginally brainwashed by the religion of my birth.
My parents had so successfully isolated me during my youth, even though I went screaming out of their house as fast as I could when I was 18, they and their church still got to my brain in a few ways.
I knew _I_ didn't want to have kids, but I assumed it was inevitable and that's what a man would "want me for". After all, I couldn't see any use for the stupid female mormons, what use would a man see in me? Yeah yeah, ok, they got to me good!

I am so glad I found a man who likes ME for me, not just as a plug in accessory for the proper gawd approved life script, gotta collect em all!

Anyways, my sister got married 4 years before I did, and at the set up for her reception I remember commenting to my mom how time was running out, I only had a 10 year window left in which to find a man, referring to my potential babymaking years.
(WHAT WAS I THINKING?!?!?)

Now I am on the other end of that 10 year window, so glad I escaped that fate I assumed was my doom. I never welcomed it, and was sure I'd be a completely shit mother, worse than my own in fact.
Gawd I am still to this day finding ways the fucking mormons messed with what makes me ME.
I am pretty sure I have PTSD from the abuse of my childhood, and I am just now getting brave enough to want to do something about it. If I was saddled with kids though, I would never get treatment. For one thing, the mormons used to teach that mental illness is a sign of a lack of faith, and only prayer and scripture study is needed to fix anything. But for another, if I had kids, I'd be too busy blaming them for all my problems, while also keeping busy fucking with their little minds in the grand tradition of my family.

So glad I have the time and clarity to work on myself. I deserve it! Especially after all the shit I grew up with.

Quote
zatoth

Quote
Presto
The longer I live, the more delighted I am to be "getting away with it"!

Before I was married, I was still marginally brainwashed by the religion of my birth.
My parents had so successfully isolated me during my youth, even though I went screaming out of their house as fast as I could when I was 18, they and their church still got to my brain in a few ways.
I knew _I_ didn't want to have kids, but I assumed it was inevitable and that's what a man would "want me for". After all, I couldn't see any use for the stupid female mormons, what use would a man see in me? Yeah yeah, ok, they got to me good!

I am so glad I found a man who likes ME for me, not just as a plug in accessory for the proper gawd approved life script, gotta collect em all!

Anyways, my sister got married 4 years before I did, and at the set up for her reception I remember commenting to my mom how time was running out, I only had a 10 year window left in which to find a man, referring to my potential babymaking years.
(WHAT WAS I THINKING?!?!?)

Now I am on the other end of that 10 year window, so glad I escaped that fate I assumed was my doom. I never welcomed it, and was sure I'd be a completely shit mother, worse than my own in fact.
Gawd I am still to this day finding ways the fucking mormons messed with what makes me ME.
I am pretty sure I have PTSD from the abuse of my childhood, and I am just now getting brave enough to want to do something about it. If I was saddled with kids though, I would never get treatment. For one thing, the mormons used to teach that mental illness is a sign of a lack of faith, and only prayer and scripture study is needed to fix anything. But for another, if I had kids, I'd be too busy blaming them for all my problems, while also keeping busy fucking with their little minds in the grand tradition of my family.

So glad I have the time and clarity to work on myself. I deserve it! Especially after all the shit I grew up with.

I blame my mom for my not having kids. Growing up, if we pissed her off, she was like "when you have kids,I hope they turn out JUST LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!"

Yup-no kids for me!

Quote
milenascarlet

Quote
zatoth

Quote
Presto
The longer I live, the more delighted I am to be "getting away with it"!

Before I was married, I was still marginally brainwashed by the religion of my birth.
My parents had so successfully isolated me during my youth, even though I went screaming out of their house as fast as I could when I was 18, they and their church still got to my brain in a few ways.
I knew _I_ didn't want to have kids, but I assumed it was inevitable and that's what a man would "want me for". After all, I couldn't see any use for the stupid female mormons, what use would a man see in me? Yeah yeah, ok, they got to me good!

I am so glad I found a man who likes ME for me, not just as a plug in accessory for the proper gawd approved life script, gotta collect em all!

Anyways, my sister got married 4 years before I did, and at the set up for her reception I remember commenting to my mom how time was running out, I only had a 10 year window left in which to find a man, referring to my potential babymaking years.
(WHAT WAS I THINKING?!?!?)

Now I am on the other end of that 10 year window, so glad I escaped that fate I assumed was my doom. I never welcomed it, and was sure I'd be a completely shit mother, worse than my own in fact.
Gawd I am still to this day finding ways the fucking mormons messed with what makes me ME.
I am pretty sure I have PTSD from the abuse of my childhood, and I am just now getting brave enough to want to do something about it. If I was saddled with kids though, I would never get treatment. For one thing, the mormons used to teach that mental illness is a sign of a lack of faith, and only prayer and scripture study is needed to fix anything. But for another, if I had kids, I'd be too busy blaming them for all my problems, while also keeping busy fucking with their little minds in the grand tradition of my family.

So glad I have the time and clarity to work on myself. I deserve it! Especially after all the shit I grew up with.

I blame my mom for my not having kids. Growing up, if we pissed her off, she was like "when you have kids,I hope they turn out JUST LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!"

Yup-no kids for me!

Works like a charm. Hehe

Quote
anti-offspring
So I'm getting away with something. What, please?

Quote
lilin_unite

Quote
grammarnut
I've tried to explain this to my mom and her partner, both of whom have children, and they just don't seem to get the concept.

I explain that babies are naturally selfish because it helps/helped them survive (evolution) and they look at me like I'm nuts.

I'm "negative" when I explain that even acts like donating to the poor can be selfish because the person in question gets rewarded for it in the form of self-gratification, so the act is, therefore, NOT altruistic.

This isn't bad -- it's simply a fact.

Most breeders seem to have limited intellectual ability. If not, they have a cognitive block towards recognizing how their own actions may not be ideal, even if you present it in a general way.

I find reasoning with breeders to be a waste of time.

Quote
lilin_unite

Quote
thundergirl85
Another thing I've found is that, for a lot of people, it's not about kids vs. CF. It's about the lifescripter life. With some people, it's like they'd be fine if I didn't have kids, as long as I had the "boring suburb house, 2 cars, white picket fence, go to work and go home at a hum-drum office job, only social life is a romantic partner, go to bed at 10 and extent of outings is the neighbor's barbecue" life. But I don't want that, and the fact that I'm paving an adventurous and different life for myself seems to be what gets some of these breeders' panties in a twist.

Jealous mothafuckers, is the only thing I can think of.

I think there's some serious truth to this.

I think for a lot of us, CF was one of the first anti-lifescript things we realized about ourselves (I'm guessing so based on the very young age a lot of us report knowing we were CF).

And something beautiful happens when you reject one piece of the lifescript -- especially such a BIG piece.

You realize that every other part of it is optional, too. Not just kids. All of it.

Who says you need to get a house?

Who says you need to get married?

Who says you need to be a white collar worker bee?

Who says you need to do ANY of that?

No one. In reality, you can do whatever you want.

And so, I think, for a lot of us, realizing we're CF serves as a stepping stone to freeing us mentally to pursue whatever kind of life we want without shame, which means that some of us will have very non-traditional lives.

And seeing us do that pisses them off even more.

You're right. They could almost get over us not having kids, as long as we still felt beholden to living a similar hum-drum life to what they do.

They could get over the fact that we get more sleep and have fewer messes and more money, as long as we're still bored with our existence like they are.

But seeing us realize we don't have to accept ANY of the lifescript nonsense is just more than they can handle. They can't handle the idea that not only are we free of children, but we're actually DOING something with that freedom.

Quote
lisbeth

Quote
milenascarlet

Quote
zatoth

Quote
Presto
The longer I live, the more delighted I am to be "getting away with it"!

Before I was married, I was still marginally brainwashed by the religion of my birth.
My parents had so successfully isolated me during my youth, even though I went screaming out of their house as fast as I could when I was 18, they and their church still got to my brain in a few ways.
I knew _I_ didn't want to have kids, but I assumed it was inevitable and that's what a man would "want me for". After all, I couldn't see any use for the stupid female mormons, what use would a man see in me? Yeah yeah, ok, they got to me good!

I am so glad I found a man who likes ME for me, not just as a plug in accessory for the proper gawd approved life script, gotta collect em all!

Anyways, my sister got married 4 years before I did, and at the set up for her reception I remember commenting to my mom how time was running out, I only had a 10 year window left in which to find a man, referring to my potential babymaking years.
(WHAT WAS I THINKING?!?!?)

Now I am on the other end of that 10 year window, so glad I escaped that fate I assumed was my doom. I never welcomed it, and was sure I'd be a completely shit mother, worse than my own in fact.
Gawd I am still to this day finding ways the fucking mormons messed with what makes me ME.
I am pretty sure I have PTSD from the abuse of my childhood, and I am just now getting brave enough to want to do something about it. If I was saddled with kids though, I would never get treatment. For one thing, the mormons used to teach that mental illness is a sign of a lack of faith, and only prayer and scripture study is needed to fix anything. But for another, if I had kids, I'd be too busy blaming them for all my problems, while also keeping busy fucking with their little minds in the grand tradition of my family.

So glad I have the time and clarity to work on myself. I deserve it! Especially after all the shit I grew up with.

I blame my mom for my not having kids. Growing up, if we pissed her off, she was like "when you have kids,I hope they turn out JUST LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!"

Yup-no kids for me!

Works like a charm. Hehe

60% of the time it works every time.

wink