Catholics to pope: Lift the birth control ban

yes kidless.. those annoy me too.. but humans are not all like that.. thats my point. i dont push my personal faith onto people.. and there are otehrs who dont.. their worth is in who they are, not what they beleive..

to deny a persons worth for a stupid reason like religion, skin colour, sex, is dumb at best.. dangerous at worst..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Merc Said
_----------------------------
"to deny a persons worth for a stupid reason like religion, skin colour, sex, is dumb at best.. dangerous at worst"


LOL, again I stand by my comment in MY opinion, when I hear someone believes any of the gawd stuff, they lose all credibility and i simply move on. you take this way to personal.

I think believing in that crap is DUMB at best and dangerous at worst!!!!!!!!

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ah the church is not the people.. the people are
> not the church.
>
>
That is false. The church is the people, without followers there would be no church. Without people willing to believe in, and pay for, whatever myth they've decided on, there would be no church. People created the church, and choose to follow it. If all the catholics who don't follow the catholic church's teachings to the letter simply stopped tithing, the catholic church would be gone in a couple years. Same with most other denominations of religion.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

the church is an organism, people are just the cells, the cells may do different things, so any beleif in say paganism, is equally insane?

cells are not all the same.. yet people here think they are.. is that right.?

you complain that we are all labelled child haters.. when some of us arent.. is that right.. or are you doign the same thing..

you know what.. you are just as bigoted as many others.. i can see that now..

so i will leave you to it.. hate all you want.. hate catholics, muslims, jewish, gays, men, women.pagans, blacks, mexicans, asians.. any group you want.. it not worth my time to try to make you see reason.. as you wont ever see that people are individuals one last thought.. NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.. EVEN WHEN IT COMES TO FAITH. Not everyone has the same level of faith. and people sometimes dont follow idiotic things..

i will keep posting occasionally, but you arent worth my time anymore.. so i will let you hate, and be bigoted.. it just reinforces my beleif (hey how about that).. that almost all of humanity is worthless.. only a tiny percentage, is worth being alive.. so i have to thank you for that.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Merc, your throwing insults because i think anyone who beleives in gawd is silly? well to fucken bad, its my opinion, I dont give a fuck that it hurts your feelings, you have insulted me way more than i did you, get over yourself, so pray to harry potter or the wizard of oz or whatever fairy tale you chose to whorship, i have a right to my opinions and you have a right to your beliefs, we dont have to agree and we WONT agree, would your gawd be ok with all your insults? your the typical religious idiot

humanity is worthless because of religious kooks and breeders, learn to think for yourself or get a thicker skin

i am not religious... but i hate the bigotry you profess.. not everyone is dumb.. even if they beleive in other things..

thats your problem.. cutting yourself off from others who may think differently..

i think you are just as dangerous as any fundamentalist.. just because i stood up for some i must be a god worshipper.. therefore i am an idiot..

does that invalidate everything i ever said.. ?????? guess so.. humanity is worthless because of hate filled people like you..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

lol you just proved my point on people who believe in the fairy tale.

im done with you, talking to you is useless and boring!!!!

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ BORRRRRRRING

While I find the Niemoeller statement compelling, and inspiring, in this instance, it doesn't fit at all. It isn't about simple hate, it's about persecution. In the US, and most of the world, non-believers are in the minority, we make up about 10 percent of the population of the US. There is ONE senator who is willing to label himself an atheist...ONE. No congress people, no presidents, no governors, no mayors. So please, do not use the Niemoeller statement to garner sympathy for a group that is not only the majority, but also makes up 99.99% of government.

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the church is an organism, people are just the
> cells, the cells may do different things, so any
> beleif in say paganism, is equally insane?

If you want to think of the church as an organism, then yes, the people who make it up would be similar to cells. Like cells group together to do certain jobs. What that has to do with belief is beyond me. Cells don't hold beliefs, they simply fulfill functions. Plus, without cells, there is no organism.

Belief is relative. What a person chooses to believe is their business. To me, Paganism is the same as any other religion that believes in "higher powers" or "creation mythology" or external, non-corporeal spirits that control physical things. Is it really any different that some people believe in one sky being who created everything, or that other people believe that there are a variety of spirits who control a variety of earthly functions? Not in my mind.

> cells are not all the same.. yet people here think
> they are.. is that right.?
This is true and false. All cells of a certain grouping are the same, your immune system, for instance, is made up of a collection of cells that all have the same job. The cells of the mucus membranes of your mouth are also the same, but at the same time much, much different than the cells of your immune system. Think of it more like a factory, the guys who work in marketing are not the same guys who assemble the products. Both groups, while all humans, have very specific job skills that do not translate to the other groups.


> so i will leave you to it.. hate all you want..
> hate catholics, muslims, jewish, gays, men,
> women.pagans, blacks, mexicans, asians.. any group
> you want..
One of the the problems I, as an atheist, have with religion is the conversion aspect to it. I never get gays, women, blacks, or handicapped people showing up at my door on a saturday afternoon trying to convert me to their lifestyle/belief system. I don't experience them saying "Don't believe science, believe this fictional book". I don't experience them judging me as an amoral, evil person just because I'm not black, gay, handicapped, or what have you.

Thinking someone is dumb, and hating them, are two vastly different things. Just because I think my friend's love of televised football is dumb, doesn't mean I hate them...I just can't relate to that aspect of their lives. I find the religious or spiritual beliefs that most of my friends hold to be completely baffling to me as I was not raised in any sort of religious tradition. To me believing in god, spirits, a soul or anything of the sort seems more like a "break from reality" than a "leap of faith". To me, they seem smarter and more rational than that. At the same time, since they all were raised within some religious tradition, they may find my utter lack of belief equally baffling and possibly dumb.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

i am a non praticing.. as i stated.. but my mum practices.. my cousins do.. but they dont obey the pope 100%. none of us in the UK does..

And you see if all those people who didn't follow the Catholic Churches teachings LEFT, and stopped tithing, there would be NO Catholic Church.



Here's my favorite revision of the Niemoeller statement,
When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't use drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

The Roman Catholic Church likes to present itself to outsiders as one whole unified edifice,however for those either inside the church or former members the experience is significantly different .
The constant jockeying for power within the church by various groups belies this idea of uniformity of doctrine ,you only need to be aware of the hatred shown by for example the Jesuits towards Opus Dei and vice versa over matters of doctrine to appreciate this and this is just one example ,Franciscans and Dominicans are often at loggerheads not only with each other but also with other Orders.

It tends to be recent converts to Catholicism who adhere most strongly and most compleltely to doctrine on things like birth control, existing long standing members on the other hand tend to be a bit more a la carte using the principle of "What the Pope doesn't know won't hurt him "

The Republic of Ireland is however an exception to this rule.

The traditionalists such as the Confraternity of Catholic Clergy in the church are fighting others within the church to retain the provisons on birth control in Humanae Vitae (1968) is just one example of differences in the church.
The very fact that they have to openly state this just shows that there is a major disagreement within the Church.

Text below from http://www.catholic-clergy.org/

"Catholic Clergy Challenge Colleagues to Reacquaint Themselves and Their People with Humanae Vitae


Contact: Rev. Fr. John Trigilio, Confraternity of Catholic Clergy, 717-957-2662

BALTIMORE, Maryland, July 19 /Christian Newswire/ -- The Confraternity of Catholic Clergy celebrated the 40th anniversary of Humanae Vitae, the encyclical from Paul VI, by asking every deacon, priest and bishop to reread and re-educate their flock with this prophetic document.

The organization also pledged support for all bishops who confront and deny Holy Communion to unrepentant Catholic politicians that support abortion, if prior attempts to enlighten their consciences fail.

A national association of 600 priests and deacons, the CCC met in Baltimore, MD, July 14-17 for its 33rd annual convocation. Dr. Janet Smith, Fr. Thomas Euteneuer (HLI) and Fr. Peter West (Priests for Life) and Mr. Thomas McKenna were speakers.

All of them discussed the perennial truths taught in Humanae Vitae, namely, that human life is sacred from the first moment of conception until natural death and that it is gravely immoral to separate the unitive (love) and procreative (life) ends of conjugal love. Hence, abortion, contraception, in vitro fertilization, et al. are considered sinful and immoral and to be avoided.

Dissent from Humanae Vitae, which was in vogue in the late 1960's is on the decline in Catholicism since the pontificates of John Paul II and now Benedict XVI. While sometimes a difficult teaching to embrace and maintain, it is nevertheless the only means to uphold the natural law and to safeguard the sanctity of the human person, marriage and the family as well as civilization itself.

Forty years ago, opponents of Humanae Vitae wanted Pope Paul VI to change the Church's ban on contraception due to the then newly developed birth control pill. Experts point out, however, that since the advent of the Pill, instances of breast, uterine and other forms of female cancer have increased in proportion to the proliferation of the Pill. Sexual promiscuity, deviancy, venereal disease, increase in divorces, illegitimate births, and a host of other social ills threatening society and the Church.

The CCC challenges all its brother clergy to teach, explain and defend this most timely encyclical.

A plea was made to the national conference of bishops (USCC so that an accurate and eloquent English translation of the Roman Missal be approved expediently as long as it does not insult the intelligence of the faithful and does not betray the authentic Latin text. The CCC thanked Pope Benedict for his visible efforts to restore more reverence to sacred worship through personal example when celebrating the liturgy."


There is also dispute between this group the CCC (which may be a front for Opus Dei ) and a group of nuns called NCAN National Coalition of American Nuns regarding the words used in religious services ,petty maybe but certainly not a sign of complete consensus as to what the Cathloiuc church is and should be .

Regarding current Catholics or ex-Catholics being "responsible" for the Inquistion,then surely Protestants must be equally held responsible for the Salem Witch trails etc etc etc


and BTW I am a practicing catholic.. but even I dont follow exactly the teachings of the church.

I haven't been around for a while, I am amazed at the bigotry being bandied around on this board. What a load of nonsense lumping everyone together.

I could people thinking like this are every bit as bad as the people who ran the Inquisition because of peoples beliefs. It is no difference whatsoever.

I seem to remember the Founding Fathers proclaiming that the Church would be a totally separate Institution from the State. But what has happened the First Amendment is

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"


Madison’s original proposal for a bill of rights provision concerning religion read: “The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed


From the Cornell Law School site
http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt1afrag1_user.html#amdt1a_hd4

I have never ever come across so many people attending Church on a Sunday as they do in USA and the sad thing is that they seem to think that it makes them good people, when the rest of the week a lot of these people are the most nasty people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

Anyone can pretend to be good for an hour each Sunday, what really matters is the real person.


The Catholic Church has done some bad things in the past and continues to do some bad things, but no other Church is any better either in Europe or in the United States of America.

When it came to ghe genocide of Native Americans, Protestants where there as much as Catholics, Salem Witches were killed by Puritans - Guess what they were?

Oops Protestants.

I NEVER said any church was any better, or worse, than any other. They're all equally nonsensical in my book.

Faith, belief, what have you is very curious to me, kind of like sports team fandom. So someone's an ex-catholic who now practices santeria, what's the difference really? They're still practicing a religion. I was talking with a pagan friend who was mocking another mutual friend who believes in fairies. She plotzed when I asked her what she thought the difference between fairies and her belief in elemental spirits were, because as far as I can tell, there is none. It's all belief in non-corporeal entities influencing this mortal coil and to me it's all pretty much the same.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Thank you, Giselle.

ummm yeah OK, i can see how thinking bible zombies are idiots the same as hating all blacks LOL LOL

nokyds4me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ummm yeah OK, i can see how thinking bible zombies
> are idiots the same as hating all blacks LOL LOL

I'm not sure I understand.

people here have said, that thinking religious people are all dumb is the same as being a racist,

I was raised, indoctrinated would be a better term, in the fundie Southern Baptist church AND was the daughter of the church organist, so I am all too familiar with religiosity as well as fundamentalism. I spent nearly all of my waking hours inside the confines of that church and when I wasn't there I was at a youth retreat, camp, or a church sponsored event designed to brainwash. I didn't buy it from my earliest of memories, but I really wanted to believe because the ones who did seemed so happy about it. I finally broke away from it when I was about 20, but the effects of it and the memories still linger. It is not easy to see it for what it is when that is all you have known, but it can be done.

What I am left with is the knowledge that it isn't any particular religion I "hate", but rather it's a strong dislike, disrespect, and outright annoyance more than anything else, for many individual PEOPLE( not a specific church) who take The Bible ( what we have been allowed to see of it) literally. Believing in a higher power, God, Buddah, Allah, is not stupid, I don't think, but a very personal and private matter between a human being and his creator. Organized religion can completely shatter all of that and even cause people to turn away from the God they once believed in because of all of the hypocrisy, greed, lying,haters, commandment breakers, and trust breakers, who claim to be Christians, or staunch followers of other religions.

I also can't bear to see an otherwise intelligent person blindly believe or follow ANYTHING, especially when so little is known about the origin of it. I once had a history professor who was fluent in Arameic, Hebrew, and Greek, and he said if some of these fundies ever actually read The Bible in it's original languages and in it's entirety, they would possibly have a better understanding that MOST of what was translated, revised, and left out, would make many of the literal meanings they constantly spout off take on a completely different connotation and see many scriptures in a different context.

It's confusing to people who may be "on the fence", and downright ridiculous to non believers, but when various denominations have to split up into 8 or 10 separate churches within the same city or town because they can't agree on how to live, what to believe, and biblical interpretation, it really gives credence to the fact that the whole lot of it, ie:religion in general, may be a waste of time. So, in essence, the very ones who claim that they desire all people to do the John 3:16, live such screwed up lives that many people have come to think it's not worth the effort.

If religious people REALLY cared about the souls of their fellow men, they would live and act right and set good examples, but they rarely do. If you claim to be a Christian and are an asshole, then you are turning people away from the church. IMHO.

If nothing else, it is an intensely personal matter. I do not share my faith because I know what I would hear about it. this causes a serious conflict for me, which is what happened to merc:

Do i expose myself to ridcule for a faith i have chosen that answers questions that soothe my soul?

or do i put my head down like a sheep so that people unwilling to hear a different point of view can get away with denigrating me to the point of utter rejection?

I live in GA, there is a church of some kind every few blocks, and new churchs being built ALL THE TIME, it makes me sick, its so fucken annoying, i fucken hate churchs and anything that goes along with it,

RR mrec is an asshole and started the name calling from the get go, just as merc has his opinion of some sort of silly gawd,, i have my opinion that its stupid

bible kooks love to give their opinion but get all pissy when someone has a different opinion, they love to name call and quote REV butt fuckerrrr, they are ALL the same

bible kooks love to give their opinion but get all pissy when someone has a different opinion, they love to name call and quote REV butt fuckerrrr, they are ALL the same

nokyds4me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in GA, there is a church of some kind
> every few blocks, and new churchs being built ALL
> THE TIME, it makes me sick, its so fucken
> annoying, i fucken hate churchs and anything that
> goes along with it,


Further proving one of the points I made in the above WAY TOO LONG post above,lol. It's the same way here in Kentucky. I live in a rural area that is so far out, Dominoes will only meet you to deliver a pizza at one of the churches. Yes, I have to pass FIVE Baptist churches on my way home, and that's just after I get into the rural area. If there was some sort of a disaster and all of the people living on these hills were told to gather at the churches, one would be big enough. There is absolutely NO need for all of these churches of the same denomination. They just can't get along with one another and apply for a tax freebie to build another, and UP it goes.

I think churches should NOT be tax exempt, and that would put an end to a lot of these 100+ year perpetual "building funds" and tax free nonsense.