Many parents are financially unprepared.

Sometimes I look at some people and I can't help but wonder, are they spending too much on their toys?

Well, after reading this WSJ article, I am thinking it is not that common for anyone to spend $18,000 per year on toys. I have seen people spend some heavy coin on vacations and gadgets, but none of it usually adds to $18,000 per year.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/can-you-really-afford-a-new-child-1405815338

And the comments from that article are priceless! Have more kids, kids are everything, they are a joy, etc....

:BS

I'll stay the way I am, thank you very much. Ironically, we're one of those "stable, married couples" mentioned who could afford a few kids. We just don't want to. And, as there's no law that requires us to breed, we'll stay just the way we are, CF anr happy.

I wonder how many wanna parents actually to a "test run"? Setting aside 18k per year into an investment account for a few years. Compound the interest, build up cash and then ask themselves if they want to part with about 40k that they just built up?

I think if someone had to write out a check for 200k upfront to cover the cost of the kid, maybe fewer people would be having as many kids as they do. Building up 200k is not that hard if there is dedication. If people can spend that much to raise a kid, they can save that much before they have one.

The lack of savings that people have is especially frightening for those that have children. I'm fortunate to have about six-months worth of cash stashed away in a savings account just in case something terrible happens.

Ask your average parent if he/she has that amount in a liquid savings account. I believe those who are somewhat prepared with this liquid savings account would be around 20% of the parent population.

And yet the irony is that so many of these "middle class" parents live on credit and want to "have it all." They drive expensive SUVs, live in neighborhoods and homes which they can't afford, have extensive cell phone and cable TV subscriptions, and vacation to destinations that require serious cash to enjoy.

I remember struggling through my younger working years with the idea that paycheck-to-paycheck living wasn't comfortable, and the thought of job loss or illness made me really sweat bullets. I can't believe people choose to do this as a way of life when they really don't have to.

Studio, you basically said it all! People live for today and don't think of tomorrow. The majority are credit rich and don't care as long as they have that "look". Then when the bottom falls out they blame everyone and everything else. Go bankrupt so us responsible people wind up paying the price. many go bankrupt 2 or 3 times. And they all have as many kids as they can.

I think a lot of people have kids because they think it's the next natural step in life, or they just want mini-mes, regardless of whether they're in a position to afford them. Or they conceive little mistakes and think that not living in a cardboard box outside Taco Bell = financially stable enough for children. And then they have another child on top of the first one because they want to "give them a sibling," thus doubling the financial strain. Or, they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments and have no savings left over to provide for the loaves once they're actually born.

My parents were married almost 10 years before I was born. Why? Because they were poor! They KNEW they couldn't afford a baby so they just didn't have one until they could afford one. Contrary to what many Moos and Duhs want us to believe, preventing chyldrun isn't that hard. :Violin

I can see what you mean about moron commenters:

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Mac MooreMac Moore 48 minutes ago
I really don't care for the rationalizing of children. If you meet the basics, in a loving relationship and can imagine a child in your life as a commitment of love, go for it! Heck, unless you are Rich, you never have enough money or time for kid(s). Never. But, that "commitment of love" changes everything.

Kids don't know that they are poor, so don't worry about it! It's okay to be poor! Once you get that stigma out of the way, you will be amazed by how well and happy you can live on so much less. Have kids and pour your love into your family. When it comes to family, more is never, ever less!

I beg to differ--kids definitely know they are poor, and it's painful.

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bell_flower

I beg to differ--kids definitely know they are poor, and it's painful.

Agreed.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that we were poor growing up, but damn, we were definitely in the "working class" demographic for many of my formative years.

The best way I can describe it would be that everything we had was older--an older home, older cars, older clothes, etc. But we had shelter and food on the table, so that was good. My parents were blue-collar and thrifty, and they weren't stupid enough to get into debt up to their eyeballs just so they could maintain a Keep-Up-With-The-Joneses image.

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highwayman
Studio, you basically said it all! People live for today and don't think of tomorrow. The majority are credit rich and don't care as long as they have that "look". Then when the bottom falls out they blame everyone and everything else. Go bankrupt so us responsible people wind up paying the price. many go bankrupt 2 or 3 times. And they all have as many kids as they can.

Let me also add that many of these so-called parents are working professionals who make $100-150K per year, and yet are basically flat broke in terms of cash reserves!

They'll whine and say, "It's so hard to save when you have kydz!!!" I call bullshit on that. If these people made $200K or $300K per year, they'd STILL be cash-poor, because they spend every goddamn nickel they have.

Do they have reasonable vehicles that go from point A to point B? Nope. They have luxury SUVs, and a new one every three years.

Do they have a reasonable home? Nope. They insist on living in large homes in beautiful neighborhoods, often times far larger than what was considered a large home just two decades ago. 1000 square feet per person is extremely excessive, and that's what they're averaging.

Do they spend on consumer goods with discretion? Hell no. The 55 inch flatscreen isn't meeting their needs anymore now that the 60" version is out, so it's time to run out to Best Buy and pick up the new one. Their cell phones? They're from last Christmas, so it's time for an upgrade, even though it works perfectly fine. Oh, and while the salesman is processing that, they remind him that their kids need new phones too. And how can any of them possibly be entertained unless they subscribe to 300 channels (293 of them will never be watched, by the way.).

Do they use credit wisely? Well, the banks LOVE them because they're the long-term slaves of banking institutions. They love adjustable rate mortgages, higher interest 30-year mortgages, constantly leasing cars instead of owning them outright and having no monthly payment, and falling for scams such as, "Get this store credit card now and save 5% on your order! (.... meanwhile the fine print reveals that said card carries a 22% interest rate...!).

Here's the really SICK part of the whole thing: This excess consumerism and profligate spending does not in any way lead to a happier, healthier, or more fulfilling life. These people are owned by their creditors and will never get off the treadmill of debt.

Studio, you are absolutely right. You have described my in-laws to a tee. They had every advantage, tons of money, huge house in SoCal, but my BIL is an idiot with money and they ended up in 125k in debt, two mortgages on the the house that is worthless because they never put a cent in to upkeep. He had to have a new, huge expensive car every 3 years and my SIL is no better. Now both sets of grandparents are paying for the grandkids education to the tune of about 50k a year.

And even after parental bailout after bailout, those two morons are still spending tons of money and they have another kid that will be going to college in a few years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shrieking babbies are the most effective birth control on earth.

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bell_flower
I can see what you mean about moron commenters:

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Mac MooreMac Moore 48 minutes ago
I really don't care for the rationalizing of children. If you meet the basics, in a loving relationship and can imagine a child in your life as a commitment of love, go for it! Heck, unless you are Rich, you never have enough money or time for kid(s). Never. But, that "commitment of love" changes everything.

Kids don't know that they are poor, so don't worry about it! It's okay to be poor! Once you get that stigma out of the way, you will be amazed by how well and happy you can live on so much less. Have kids and pour your love into your family. When it comes to family, more is never, ever less!

I beg to differ--kids definitely know they are poor, and it's painful.

I agree 100%. Poverty sometimes causes unintentional neglect. It hurts to be hungry. It hurts to wear shoes that don't fit. It hurts to sleep on the floor because your parents cannot afford to buy a bed. It hurts to have medical problems that parents cannot afford to take care of. People who say poverty does not hurt have never volunteered in homeless shelters.

Middle class is not really protected from all of the above either. People who have income may be earning just enough to disqualify from government aid. At the same time they are raising the next generation on cheap crackers and soda. Some houses are barely heated in the winter time because parents can barely afford gas and electricity. College funds and help to go to school does not exist. People graduate with massive student loans because not only they had to finance the school, they had to also finance their housing while going to school.

Basically, broke dick selfish idiots, who don't give a crap about anyone, they breed and use love as an excuse.

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Techie

I agree 100%. Poverty sometimes causes unintentional neglect. It hurts to be hungry. It hurts to wear shoes that don't fit. It hurts to sleep on the floor because your parents cannot afford to buy a bed. It hurts to have medical problems that parents cannot afford to take care of. People who say poverty does not hurt have never volunteered in homeless shelters.

Middle class is not really protected from all of the above either. People who have income may be earning just enough to disqualify from government aid. At the same time they are raising the next generation on cheap crackers and soda. Some houses are barely heated in the winter time because parents can barely afford gas and electricity. College funds and help to go to school does not exist. People graduate with massive student loans because not only they had to finance the school, they had to also finance their housing while going to school.

Basically, broke dick selfish idiots, who don't give a crap about anyone, they breed and use love as an excuse.

Poverty sucks. And generally speaking, if you're in poverty and you breed, you're breeding more poverty.

The thing about poverty is that everything in life is so much harder: obtaining food, shelter, reliable transportation, and just about everything else. Every day is an exercise in hour-by-hour survival--hoping you don't get sick because you don't have money to pay for the doctor, hoping the bus is on time so you can get to work and do your menial job, hoping the landlord doesn't raise the rent, hoping that there's enough money for food... it sucks.

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StudioFiftyFour

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Techie

I agree 100%. Poverty sometimes causes unintentional neglect. It hurts to be hungry. It hurts to wear shoes that don't fit. It hurts to sleep on the floor because your parents cannot afford to buy a bed. It hurts to have medical problems that parents cannot afford to take care of. People who say poverty does not hurt have never volunteered in homeless shelters.

Middle class is not really protected from all of the above either. People who have income may be earning just enough to disqualify from government aid. At the same time they are raising the next generation on cheap crackers and soda. Some houses are barely heated in the winter time because parents can barely afford gas and electricity. College funds and help to go to school does not exist. People graduate with massive student loans because not only they had to finance the school, they had to also finance their housing while going to school.

Basically, broke dick selfish idiots, who don't give a crap about anyone, they breed and use love as an excuse.

Poverty sucks. And generally speaking, if you're in poverty and you breed, you're breeding more poverty.

The thing about poverty is that everything in life is so much harder: obtaining food, shelter, reliable transportation, and just about everything else. Every day is an exercise in hour-by-hour survival--hoping you don't get sick because you don't have money to pay for the doctor, hoping the bus is on time so you can get to work and do your menial job, hoping the landlord doesn't raise the rent, hoping that there's enough money for food... it sucks.

I have, in the past, tried to argue with wanna breeders about this subject. If somebody is only making enough money to get by without struggling too much, why do people think they can just add a kid to the mix and be ok? I would indicate that kids are expensive and that having a kid will throw them into debt. I am yet to win an argument with a wanna breeder. I am often told that I think with my mind and not my heart. Well, my mind can look at numbers and determine where does one stand financially. Their heart cannot calculate. Their heart follows wants without any idea how to sustain such wants. Well, in my heart I want to help struggling CF people in different places but my mind tells me that I cannot help everyone - I am limited by my income. I only help with what I can. People who breed often can't afford it but they do it anyways.

This logic is uniform across the globe. People first breed and then when their kids are starving, have no medical care and are dying, they ship them to USA for us, the taxpayers, to rescue them and care for them. Same logic, same entitlement, different countries. We would not think twice about taking in a few CF folks from such places - they just might come here and actually work and pay taxes - we can't have that.

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bell_flower
I can see what you mean about moron commenters:

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Mac MooreMac Moore 48 minutes ago
I really don't care for the rationalizing of children. If you meet the basics, in a loving relationship and can imagine a child in your life as a commitment of love, go for it! Heck, unless you are Rich, you never have enough money or time for kid(s). Never. But, that "commitment of love" changes everything.

Kids don't know that they are poor, so don't worry about it! It's okay to be poor! Once you get that stigma out of the way, you will be amazed by how well and happy you can live on so much less. Have kids and pour your love into your family. When it comes to family, more is never, ever less!

I beg to differ--kids definitely know they are poor, and it's painful.

.... Did this asshole REALLY just make an argument against being a rational human being and providing for their child in a comfortable, financially secure, setting? Has the human race fallen so low that now we have "dumbass pride"? Why would someone even open their mouth and speak for the right to be stupid? The only thing that comforts me (not really) is that this sort of bullshit is perpetuated almost exclusively by breeders and wanna breeds. Sometimes I seriously think we are the last bastion of common sense on earth!

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StudioFiftyFour

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highwayman
Studio, you basically said it all! People live for today and don't think of tomorrow. The majority are credit rich and don't care as long as they have that "look". Then when the bottom falls out they blame everyone and everything else. Go bankrupt so us responsible people wind up paying the price. many go bankrupt 2 or 3 times. And they all have as many kids as they can.

Let me also add that many of these so-called parents are working professionals who make $100-150K per year, and yet are basically flat broke in terms of cash reserves!

They'll whine and say, "It's so hard to save when you have kydz!!!" I call bullshit on that. If these people made $200K or $300K per year, they'd STILL be cash-poor, because they spend every goddamn nickel they have.

Do they have reasonable vehicles that go from point A to point B? Nope. They have luxury SUVs, and a new one every three years.

Do they have a reasonable home? Nope. They insist on living in large homes in beautiful neighborhoods, often times far larger than what was considered a large home just two decades ago. 1000 square feet per person is extremely excessive, and that's what they're averaging.

Do they spend on consumer goods with discretion? Hell no. The 55 inch flatscreen isn't meeting their needs anymore now that the 60" version is out, so it's time to run out to Best Buy and pick up the new one. Their cell phones? They're from last Christmas, so it's time for an upgrade, even though it works perfectly fine. Oh, and while the salesman is processing that, they remind him that their kids need new phones too. And how can any of them possibly be entertained unless they subscribe to 300 channels (293 of them will never be watched, by the way.).

Do they use credit wisely? Well, the banks LOVE them because they're the long-term slaves of banking institutions. They love adjustable rate mortgages, higher interest 30-year mortgages, constantly leasing cars instead of owning them outright and having no monthly payment, and falling for scams such as, "Get this store credit card now and save 5% on your order! (.... meanwhile the fine print reveals that said card carries a 22% interest rate...!).

Here's the really SICK part of the whole thing: This excess consumerism and profligate spending does not in any way lead to a happier, healthier, or more fulfilling life. These people are owned by their creditors and will never get off the treadmill of debt.

This is it! This is what the average American family does! They don't think of saving, because they have to have it all.

We have 2 cars. Both are economy cars. One is from 2005 and one is from 2008. I paid cash for the 2005 car, new, from the dealer. How many people can do that? Plus, it's a stripped down car. No extras at all. It has roll down windows, manual transmission, manual everything. Do you know how many co-workers laugh at me when they see me driving that thing, and I make twice as much as them? They drive Audi, Mercedes, etc..and have to work 2 jobs, then work during the summer, too. I laugh all the way to the bank. The 2008 was my mother's car, and it was free.

My breederific neighbor has 5 kids and one income. His commuter car is a Mercedes. Her SUV is a Tahoe, and they have a Porsche in the garage. She has complained to me in the past about having to feed 5 kids, and fresh food is too expensive. Her 4th child (girl) has basically no clothes. She runs around without underwear on, no pants, etc...because they're too fucking cheap to put clothes on her. She is the only girl. Your description of the average American fits this family to a t.

But things won't ever change in the USA. It's a consumer culture here, where buy, buy, buy and spend, spend, spend reign supreme. And the worst part of it? They spend on disposable shit, things that don't last, things that they will grow out of, trendy shit that they won't want in several years. Oh well, their problem.

(I would elaborate more, but I am on a tablet, and it is hard to type on this thing).

"Dumbass pride" is definitely the new black. I've heard people here in Wisconsin say that expecting a governor to have a college degree is "elitist." Sorry, but I'd feel better knowing the CEO of the state is better educated than I am. And as for kids not knowing they are poor, that's unadulterated:BS Of course they know. If they watch any TV at all, they know what sort of "lifestyle" they should aim for, and it's not government cheese. Love is NOT all you need, Duh!

It takes a child to raze a village.

I think breeders confuse 'God providing' and the taxpayers providing. They KNOW if things get too tight, the government will step in and rescue them. It ain't God you need to thank, lurking breeders, it's US.

And yes, poverty does hurt. My moo was a single moo, but she worked for a living as a hairdresser. Times were tough. We lived in a run-down apartment that was filled with roaches. We sometimes had an empty fridge, and had to ask my Aunt to help us. I always had to wear second-hand clothes, including clothes that came from different fucking ERAS! I was made fun of all the time at school because of it.

Poverty sucks for kyds, and they know when they're poor. Breeders just want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is going to be fine, when they have no game plan, no savings and no idea what they're getting themselves into.

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StudioFiftyFour
And how can any of them possibly be entertained unless they subscribe to 300 channels (293 of them will never be watched, by the way.).

.

Guilty. But the 7 channels I watch are only available with the extensive package. Cable should rethink packaging and go a la carte.

But my 50 inch TV (and 15 year old tube one upstairs) suit me just fine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

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mumofsixbirds
I think breeders confuse 'God providing' and the taxpayers providing. They KNOW if things get too tight, the government will step in and rescue them. It ain't God you need to thank, lurking breeders, it's US.

And yes, poverty does hurt. My moo was a single moo, but she worked for a living as a hairdresser. Times were tough. We lived in a run-down apartment that was filled with roaches. We sometimes had an empty fridge, and had to ask my Aunt to help us. I always had to wear second-hand clothes, including clothes that came from different fucking ERAS! I was made fun of all the time at school because of it.

Poverty sucks for kyds, and they know when they're poor. Breeders just want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is going to be fine, when they have no game plan, no savings and no idea what they're getting themselves into.

Thank you for sharing your first hand experience. I agree that there is a credit given to God when in reality it is a taxpayer that is picking up the bill. If we lived in a society where the safety net was absent or safety net was more difficult to get, we would be seeing many more people on the street begging for handouts.

Somehow, there is this concept out there that if one worries about how they will support that kid of theirs, they will not want to have that kid. I think some people are just not able to sustain themselves and they have no business making more of their replicas, because what they get is more poor people.

My thoughts on the comments:



Buying a used child is probably cheaper than producing one by yourself. From personal experience, adding a second or third child is incrementally less expensive. Four and the clothing budget jumps but if the ages are spaced the cost of the fourth is balance by the first being old enough to start helping her mother. Had he not been being facetious with his opening sentence it would be a good argument for adoption vs self replicating. He's basically saying to do less for and subject everyone but the first kid to wearing hand-me downs and counting on all the prior loaf accessories to last through 4 kids, but he fails to realize that only cuts out a small percent of the fraction of the cost for each additional kid. These people are several thousand dollars in the hole the minute Moo gets rolled out of the Moo-ternity ward and that's assuming they have health insurance and the loaf was born healthy with no complications.

That, and he's relying on the free labor of the eldest kid, or should I say eldest DAUGHTER, to become an involuntary care giver for her siblings.God, I was one of those, "Mom's little helpers" and baby sat my younger siblings all summer EVERY summer, after school, many nights, and week ends when mom and dad worked, went out with their friends, or did things with each other, from the age of nine. As usual, breeders don't give a shit about their kids' feelings on their "on the cheap" parenting, especially the older female ones.down


I don't like the tone of this article. The writer's limited, material perspective reveals a fearful and myopic approach to life. Children are not a burden, but a gift. Providing for my children has been my greatest motivation for success. Spending your money to raise them is the greatest investment in your future and everyone else's Yeah, let's not muddy up the facts with "material perspective" that include things like food, mortgage payments, utilities, medical care, and college educations. It's sad someone has to spawn in order to be motivated too! Isn't self pride and a desire to be productive and successful enough "motivation"? As for kids being an "investment", well simply put that's just horse shit. An "investment" into what? I am guessing they are referring to taking care of them in their old age and paying for all of our social security, which is so tired, worn, and UN-true it boggles my mind. Kids born with "special needs" start sucking social systems dry from the moment of their birth and NEVER pay into anything, and their numbers are rising. Offspring in prison and in and out of juvie facilities don't do much for the economy either NOR do either of these groups take care of ANYONE in their old age or otherwise! Even if they manage to produce a law abiding and tax paying citizen, that's little guarantee they will take care of them when they are old.


Children are a blessing. They keep you young and enjoying life!... Let's start out with some economic concepts: economies of scale. The per child cost of children decreases as you have more children… ever heard of hand-me-downs? Normal people have. My wife and I have 10 children. By these estimates, I would have to have expended $1.2 million already and have another $1.2 million on line. We have not expended a third of that.The fundamental question, however, is why would you be worried about money? What are you going to do with it when you are feeble? Spend it on your dog? "Keep you young and enjoying life"??? Um, I'll just let statistics, common sense, and a cursory glance at the parents of the world answer that one! No, they probably have NOT spent over a million dollars because "the village" allows them to continue their campaign to fill the world with their stellar DNA by offsetting it with tax credits, free lunches, Medicaid, SNAP, and many other famblee friendly monetary incentives. It's also offensive he thinks people are just saving all this stockpile of money by not having kids to blow it on vacations and fancy cars in their golden years too. Ironically, the more "feeble" someone is the more money they need! This guy is an idiot, so it's difficult to debate his bullshit in a meaningful way because it's nonsensical in the first place, much like arguing with a monkey at the zoo.:headbrick


My parents did not have much money when I was born. I am glad they did not read this article. YOU were a child once too! The human race would become extinct if everyone thought like you! What if YOUR mother felt that way? Blah, blah, blah......................


Having children is the primary reason for marriage. Watching your children grow and develop is priceless and pays dividends unless you spoil them. Then why do single mothers account for as much as 72%(in some demographics) of all baby daddyless kids born each year? Is watching their kids grow up to become drug addicts and criminals fun and priceless to the over one million plus parents of offspring serving time in prison in The United States alone?

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

@KidlessKim - you are absolutely correct about the "village paying the tab".

Each kid costs what it costs to raise. Food, medical care, education, supplies and all that has to be and is paid by SOMEBODY. While the parent may not spend north of 200k to raise a kid, there is somebody that does. It could be the taxpayer, it could be some charity, it could be some other family member. End result is that a kid will consume what a kid will consume. There are no shortcuts. Passing down clothing only saves a small fraction. Not all items can be passed down. There are other, more expensive things that kids consume that have to be bought new. Just simply driving around with extra weight in the car uses more gas. Doing more laundry uses more water and laundry detergent. Washing machine and drier wear out sooner. Doors and cabinets in a house will fail quicker because of being opened and closed more.

The argument that more kids does not cost a whole lot more is very bogus. Just taking 5 showers instead of 2 will bump the water bill. Housing 5 kids requires a bigger house.

I just don't understand, when did it become the norm to be a cheap bastard when it comes to parenting. Nobody wants to be born to a family where they have to eat other people's table scraps. Breeders are not fooling anyone. Of course when they refer to kids being an "investment" they expect a "dividend". I don't care how "selfless" they claim to be, I don't see breeders feeding the kids of other poor breeders. They only care about their own "investment". CF, on the other hand, we pay taxes that feed breeders around the world and we have zero guarantee of return on our money - WE ARE the charity that gives without an expectation of repayment.

ETA: take a look at a house where there was just a couple who lived there vs a house that had a family with a few kids. A little hint: house with kids is way more tore up that a house without. Kids consume more than adults in my opinion. Cars owned by families are bad for resale. Cars owned by childless folks is an excellent buy. Cars owned by breeders can be more beat up than New York taxi cabs. Breeders drive more miles, burn more fuel, produce more carbon dioxide. Breeders must have bigger cars with bigger engines to haul more weight. Breeder men are fatter - they eat more at KFC and PopEye's - cause that's what their kiddies eat. Breeder men are more likely to drive more to see their mistress. CF men don't do that - they can spend quaility time with their partner without getting sick of kids pulling on her hair.

There's nothing wrong with owning a nice car, having cable tv, going on vacation, or a combination of any of the above. The problem occurs when you're living paycheck-to-paycheck while doing these things. Leaving yourself and your family with no breathing room, no safety net, isn't just irresponsible, it's immoral.

Aside from that, working your ass off 60+ hours a week while drowning in consumer debt is completely pointless, and serves as a terrible financial example to children, who grow up thinking that having everything in life is a realistic option. Of course for the wealthy, it is. But I'm not talking about well-off folks, here. Bankruptcy and foreclosure are one illness, one accident, one company "downsize" away for this crowd.

God willing, someday I hope to retire. I work my ass off and have decent things, but my main motivation is retirement and the idea that I do not ever, under any circumstance, want to struggle the way I did growing up. Kids do not fit into either one of those objectives.

If narcissistic and credit-stupid breeders want to be servicing debt into their 90s, that's fine. But so help me God I will not be taking care of them, nor voting for any politician who promises entitlement goodies from the nanny state for them.

If they're broke and starving I suggest they eat their McMansions, credit cards, and luxury vehicles.

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StudioFiftyFour
....Nor voting for any politician who promises entitlement goodies from the nanny state for them.

Are there ANY politicians left out there that don't believe in redistribution of wealth? I am afraid not. Maybe 3rd party people, but they never win.

We try to take care of the poor but we create more poor in process.

Hell, I spent $6000.00 on my cat who came down with pancreatitis. That was a nightmare. And on top of that he relapsed... I'd rather spend that money on the cat than a kid.
Thankfully cat survived, he is 2 years from the 'P' incident. I think he is more loving for that episode, but he always was a smart cat.
this was inspired 'what are you going to spend it on, a dog??'
when the bingos start I think 'Jealous of freedom'
as for kids knowing they are poor, don't know. there are some things of which they may well be unaware.
for example: I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, especially with milk. I am used to slathering both jam and butter liberally on bread.
when I was very young and mom working (she was stupid in many respects as to life choices) this friend of hers took care of me when mom was on night shift. she was really very nice...but a catholic moo. had more kids than money and kept grinding them out. all of them had some sort of physical defect btw.
her version of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich was to take scant teaspoon of each and scrape it over a piece of bread. as a child I still was struck by this scantiness.
bullshit 'but the wuuuuved each other'. I will take the 'piled up' p&b sandwiches

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

The comments! eyes2

Here's a hot one ~

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MORON
Most people can't afford their WIVES. But as you go through life, you find yourself accumulating a few. Lots of things are like that, including cats and children. They show up at your doorstep without knowing or caring whether you an afford them or not.

Life has that amusing way of presenting you with things but never asking if you can afford them. You just take them as they come and do the best you can!

:drool