Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

Majority of foreclosures now on the backs of taxpayers.

Who is behind this trend of subprime and buying houses you can't afford?


wait for it....


BREEDERS.

Great. Another fucking bailout from yet another Bush administration over bad debt from breeder-pandering. From the same family line that gave us the Resolution Trust Company (remember that?!) and those thousands of speculating S&Ls that went under the last time.

More taxpayer money for fuckbag breeders who just had to have their McMansions, S-Moo-V's and other shit.

And once again...who the fuck pays for this...CF and EN!

I worked in the real estate industry for about ten years before I moved up here in 06. It's ALWAYS famblees that buy beyond their means, have the bad credit and get high interest home mortgages that they can't afford. I don't remember a single case of a foreclosure that was a single person without kids or a couple with no kids. Some of them actually start out with a decent home loan with a good interest rate, but that isn't good enough. They have to borrow against their home to go on vacation, or buy a new car, or whatever. Over a few years time period they have spent the money they lied to the lender and said it was for 'home improvements" on luxury items. So, the house is now in poor condition AND they are upside down on their mortgage.

They generally start out with a house in good condition worth say, 100k and an $800 a month payment. Inside of five years, or less, the house is in fair to poor condition and their payment is NOW $1400 and the house has dropped in value down to 85k, because of it's condition. So, of course they can't sell it and pay it off, and they can't afford the payment, so they are foreclosed upon. It happens over, and over and over and over. I have been in 250k houses where they have lived 3 or so years, and they have NO furniture, save a bed in each room and maybe a couch. Yet, they have a Mercedes, a Bass boat, a pontoon boat, a souped up fancy redneck truck, a new inground pool, and a wide screen TV in every room with satellite.

How many government whores did they loan mortgages to?

two cents ¢¢ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many government whores did they loan mortgages
> to?


Do a google on "liar loans" and you'll have your answer.

d

kidlesskim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> have been in 250k houses where they have lived 3
> or so years, and they have NO furniture, save a
> bed in each room and maybe a couch. Yet, they have
> a Mercedes, a Bass boat, a pontoon boat, a souped
> up fancy redneck truck, a new inground pool, and a
> wide screen TV in every room with satellite.


When I went house-hunting, I went inside many of these mcmansions where the families lived - and you are right on the money: they have huge houses with almost NO furniture in them. Its weird, almost creepy. And they have maybe one room that is fully furnished with a gargantuan t.v. screen, a leather couch and lots of plastic toys all over the place. They also close off a lot of rooms in the house, to save money on heating/cooling bills. Why buy a house that large if you aren't going to use all the available space? And can't afford the utilities for such a large home? It makes no sense.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kidlesskim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > have been in 250k houses where they have lived
> 3
> > or so years, and they have NO furniture, save a
> > bed in each room and maybe a couch. Yet, they
> have
> > a Mercedes, a Bass boat, a pontoon boat, a
> souped
> > up fancy redneck truck, a new inground pool, and
> a
> > wide screen TV in every room with satellite.
>
>
> When I went house-hunting, I went inside many of
> these mcmansions where the families lived - and
> you are right on the money: they have huge houses
> with almost NO furniture in them. Its weird,
> almost creepy. And they have maybe one room that
> is fully furnished with a gargantuan t.v. screen,
> a leather couch and lots of plastic toys all over
> the place. They also close off a lot of rooms in
> the house, to save money on heating/cooling bills.
> Why buy a house that large if you aren't going to
> use all the available space? And can't afford the
> utilities for such a large home? It makes no
> sense.


They are fully aware that this isn't "normal" either and they are embarrassed about it. When I would accept an appraisal job from a lender, they would fax me the entire loan package because there was a lot of info in it which I needed for the legal section of my report. So, I would know their income, debts, credit ratings,the date of sale of the home, how much they paid for it, etc......BEFORE I ever even darkened their doorstep. When I would get there and start walking through and saw empty rooms, no curtains in half the house, lack of appliances one would expect to see in that size of a structure, muddy dirt lawns which hadn't even been sodded yet, etc.....Sometimes they would pipe up and volunteer information (lies) as if I would take their word for it and "give" them a higher value, when the MARKET dictates the value, NOT the appraiser. I can't shit them out a new lawn.

They would say, "We only just built this house, so we haven't had a chance to decorate or get the lawn sodded yet", etc.....When in FACT they had lived there going on five years. These white trash breeders find a way to get construction loans, where the money is doled out by the lender gradually and construction companies, landscapers, etc...have to fill out forms during the varying stages of completion for the homeowners to get their cash draw. Then they find ALL kinds of unscrupulous companies who will SAY the work is complete and get a small payoff, and the homeowner pockets the cash and spends it on anyting EXCEPT proper completion of the home.

Then, when they run out of that cash and the well has dried up for more, they end up with a house worth WAY Less than it would have been had it been completed properly, and they owe more than they can pay because of it. I have been in homes with naked electrical work, wires hanging down where fixtures were never installed, septic tanks that were never installed and makeshift cesspools (think holes dug by shovels and tarp). Eventually, they try and borrow money against their home by lying to the lender that they are adding on a room, or otherwise making improvements, which they get away with sight unseen a few times. They have NO intention to "improve" on anything, but by now they need that money to exist since they were living beyond their means. At some point the lenders are required to order an appraisal by an unbiased third party (enter ME) in order to lend them more money against the house, and that's when their house of cards starts to fall.

THEN, since the lender (original loan officer) realizes he is going to get in BIG trouble for not monitoring this loan properly, he will seek out and hire a "value getter" appraiser who has poor eyesight, IF you know what I mean. Hence, the scam goes on for a few more years and usually until the loan is sold to another lender who wants the "truth" about the property, which COULD be ten years into it. This is when the foreclosures generally happen and by then, their home loan is twice what they originally agreed and signed to pay, the interest rate has doubled due to their falling credit scores, and worth half the value it SHOULD be worth on the open market, due to it's condition. This is one of the main problems of these foreclosures, in my experience. It all borders on illegal, but is VERY difficult to prove since it takes place over a period of years and so many different people are involved in the scam. The homeowners, lenders, appraisers, real estate agents, insurance companies, construction companies, etc.......

I think part of the problem is, these mcmansions are very cheaply built. They don't have the quality workmanship that you see in homes built prior to 1960. People just want really LARGE homes and don't seem to care about the quality. I've been in these mcmansions and seen the shelves and cupboards made of particle board, the creaky stair bannisters, the whole house looks like it could blow away with a strong gust of wind. No wonder they fall apart so rapidly. Homeowners these days only focus on size, not quality. Its the "bigger is better" mentality.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think part of the problem is, these mcmansions
> are very cheaply built. They don't have the
> quality workmanship that you see in homes built
> prior to 1960. People just want really LARGE homes
> and don't seem to care about the quality. I've
> been in these mcmansions and seen the shelves and
> cupboards made of particle board, the creaky stair
> bannisters, the whole house looks like it could
> blow away with a strong gust of wind. No wonder
> they fall apart so rapidly. Homeowners these days
> only focus on size, not quality. Its the "bigger
> is better" mentality.


I ALWAYS have had to preface the comment which follows with, yes, there ARE manufactured homes which are built better than others and are desirable under certain circumstances, certain climates, and IF they are attached to a permanenet foundation, set up properly, have land with them, and are sold at the right price. However, there hasn't been a manufactured home built yet, which I am aware, that is as sturdy or anywhere near the same quality of construction as your most shoddily constructed stickbuilt home. NO ONE in a tornado alley or area known for hurricane activity should EVER buy a mobile home,(and plan on living in it) as they will fold like match boxes at the first strong wind REGARDLESS of what the saleman tells you. They go for "the bigger the better" and the "fancy stuff" when they purchase manufactured housing as well, much like the McMansions casseyrod mentions.

I have appraised manufactured homes that were "triple wides" with 3000 square feet of livable space. They have crystal chandeliers, built in saunas, granite counter tops, berber carpet, walk in showers with two shower heads, 5-6 bedrooms, and are made to look as much like a stickbuilt house, cosmetically, as possible. People pay anywhere from 150k-200k for some of these McTrailers. This shows a level of ignorance and stupidity which can't be outranked by much else, as the famblee home is likely the biggest investment they will ever make. These McTRAILERS depreciate in value the minute the third piece is driven off the sales lot. Like casseyrod says, these McMansions are poorly built, as are MOST homes built after 1960, in this McMansion price range. The McMansion and Mctrailer breeders would be SO much better off if they bought an older home for half the money and added a room or two on with similar quality of construction. That's not good enough though because they want big, flashy, new, and to keep up with the McJoneses.

I have NEVER seen anyone create any equity in a poorly maintained Mcmansion of poor construction quality, although they MIGHT get at least their money back that they paid for it if they sell fast enough after the subdivision is built, or while it's still a "hot" new area. No one EVER makes a profit on a Mctrailer re-sale unless the value is in the land. I have never understood why people think whatever it is they own is worth more than it would sell for on the open market, but they always do. I have tried explaining it to them like this; First of all it does not matter HOW much money you paid for it or how much you "have in it". If you buy a diamond ring (or anything else) TODAY for 10k, and 45 minutes later someone offers you 50k for it, it's worth 50k and you will make a profit of 40k. IF you try and sell it an hour later and the best offer you get is 1k, then THAT'S WHAT THE FUCKING THING IS WORTH, and YOU lose. I have had to use that litte story time and time again when people get all huffy that I "cheated" them on the value of their fucking swimming pool. It's all about what the buying public is willing to pay for the same or similar good or service, AT THAT TIME, NOT what they paid for the damned worthless piece of shit McManion or McTrailer.

Breeders NEVER understand basic concepts like this and I got blue in the face every day trying to explain something as basic as rudimentary math to what amounted to an idiot.

What I keep hearing over and over again from people who buy these mcmansions, is that they are buying them as "investments". And one of our breeder friends told me and my husband when we were house shopping that we should buy the "biggest house we can get". Where do they get the idea that these homes are good investments? Just because of the size?

I was disappointed in the tract mansions I looked at; I was disappointed at the lack of build-ins (like built-in bookshelves, etc) and the almost non-existent front and back yards. The cheap doors, cheap fixtures, etc. And all the windows they put on houses now, because glass is cheaper than brick. So they make very large windows. Not good for privacy.

I grew up in a house that was built in the 1930s, and it was rock solid, and still is.

Someone out there is telling people that great big tract mansions are good investments. Who is it?

casseyrod Wrote:

> Someone out there is telling people that great big
> tract mansions are good investments. Who is it?


REAL ESTATE AGENTS WHO HAVE THOSE HOUSES LISTED, that's who. The BEST real estate investment someone can make, as far as single family residential dwellings go, is this: Buy the smallest house you can find which is being listed at below market value because it needs cosmetic updates such as new appliances, carpet, paint, etc.... in an older, well established, stable AND well maintained neighborhood where property values continue to increase from year to year and sales are closed in the 3-6 month time range. Update the home, Keep the home in immaculate condition and well maintained. When that house is appraised, even though adjustments will be made for size, the higher sales in the area will be the ones used to compare to that house because of it's LOCATION and CONDITION, hence it will most likely INCREASE in value in a very short time period and possibly be worth a tremendous amount more than you paid for it right off the bat.

Look in the obituaries. When someone dies who owns (owned) one of those homes in one of these desirable neighborhoods, then chances are they were elderly and didn't do much in the way of updates in recent years, but the house is still in good condition, just outdated. The family will want to sell as fast as possible and move on. Wait a week or so, out of respect and decency, and then call them up and make an offer before they have an auction or estate sale. This is BY FAR the best way to get a house like that at a low cost, BEFORE it hits the open market.

married with rabbits said

-------------------------------------------------------
I'm also a minimalist and I had way more furniture before, I've just slimmed down to smaller surroundings.


I also have become some what of a minimalist through out the last 4-5 years or so, i HATE stuff, i hate clutter, i hate knick knacks

nokyds4me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> married with rabbits said
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I'm also a minimalist and I had way more furniture
> before, I've just slimmed down to smaller
> surroundings.
>
>
> I also have become some what of a minimalist
> through out the last 4-5 years or so, i HATE
> stuff, i hate clutter, i hate knick knacks


I HATE "STUFF" TOO!!! Especially worthless knick knacks which only serve as dust collectors. It seems like people are always giving me shit I do not want;used microwaves, furniture, cannisters, dishes,(that dont match)garden hoses, ceramic horse door stops, clothes, etc....It seems like every time one of my inlaws cleans out a closet or an attic, my hubby comes home with a pile of shit which I am responsible for digging through and eventually throwing out. I finally FORBADE him to bring home ANY MORE SHIT after a great aunt of his redecorated her 5000 suare foot lake house and it took two trucks to dump off the "like new" ROLLS of carpeting on my property for us to cut into pieces for what amounted to ONE 150 square foot room. "Could ya'll use some new carpet in that upstairs room", followed by an unsuspecting and naive' "Yeah, that would be nice", was the root cause of THAT "special delivery." It took 3 trips to the city dump, after it got rained on, molded, and turned into a giant outside cat scratching post and favorite animal piss spot of course, to get rid of that crap.

kidlesskim said

--------------------------------
turned into a giant outside cat scratching post and favorite animal piss spot of course, to get rid of that crap.

lol thats funny as hell, "a giant cat scratching post" lol


Its a constant job, trying to keep "STUFF" out of my home, when i buy something new, i try to get rid of something old. I really have become obsessed with getting rid of "STUFF" My life feels so much cleaner and calm, when i have an uncluttered home, closets, drawers, garage etc...

it also makes me think twice before i want to buy something, when im tempted to buy something, i stop and think about it and even wait a day or 2 and that usually prevents me from buying it (a side effect is i save some money as well as staying uncluttered)

I also hate it when people try to dump their used items on me. Whether its old magazines, old clothes, junky old furniture or whatever. They need to get off their lazy ass and haul it goodwill. I am actually offended, in some cases, that they think I would want this stuff. Like some of the old clothing from the 1980s that I would not be caught dead in.

What's worse is, I know a few people who are too cheap to pay for a storage facility for all their junk and have asked me to store it in my home for them, indefinitely. My answer of course is NO. My home is for the exclusive use of me, my husband and my pets. It is not a free storage facility for others.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also hate it when people try to dump their used
> items on me. Whether its old magazines, old
> clothes, junky old furniture or whatever. They
> need to get off their lazy ass and haul it
> goodwill. I am actually offended, in some cases,
> that they think I would want this stuff. Like some
> of the old clothing from the 1980s that I would
> not be caught dead in.
>
> What's worse is, I know a few people who are too
> cheap to pay for a storage facility for all their
> junk and have asked me to store it in my home for
> them, indefinitely. My answer of course is NO. My
> home is for the exclusive use of me, my husband
> and my pets. It is not a free storage facility for
> others.



casseyrod, you mean, you had people really ask you to store stuff of theirs in your home for them? my god people have no shame

nokyds4me Wrote:
> casseyrod, you mean, you had people really ask
> you to store stuff of theirs in your home for
> them? my god people have no shame

Yes, actually the last time it happened was not too long ago.
And the items she wanted me to store, would have taken up half a bedroom.

I learned my lesson several years ago, because I had a friend who would bring over stacks and stacks of magazines to my house and leave them for me to read. I read a few of them, then tossed them out. About a year later, she wanted "one" of the magazines back. She insisted she needed this particular magazine back, there was an article in it she wanted to read. She got very upset when I told her I threw all of them out. She had expected me to keep all of it for her whenever she felt like she wanted it back! Amazing!

So, I tell people now: if you wanna bring something to my house and leave it here, without even asking - fine, go ahead and leave it but its going to get tossed. I don't have to take responsibility for your stuff that you dump on me.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I learned my lesson several years ago, because I
> had a friend who would bring over stacks and
> stacks of magazines to my house and leave them for
> me to read. I read a few of them, then tossed them
> out. About a year later, she wanted "one" of the
> magazines back. She insisted she needed this
> particular magazine back, there was an article in
> it she wanted to read. She got very upset when I
> told her I threw all of them out. She had expected
> me to keep all of it for her whenever she felt
> like she wanted it back! Amazing!
>



OMG! I have had the SAME problem in the past and no matter how much I might want to borrow something, or how easy it is to accept something like the magazines, I JUST SAY NO. It's much easier than dealing with these neurotic people who DEMAND something back which to me, had little or no value in the beginning. My ex MIL is a retired librarian and has and ENTIRE room, probably 500 square feet as it's an enclosed patio, that she has made into a library. I made the mistake of borrowing a book at HER insistance, before she had "catalogued" it and entered it into her little "system", that she had gotten at a yard sale for 25 cents. I too have a ton of books, although they are'nt labeled with the dewey decimal system stickers like hers, and after a year or so I couldn't tell you which one I had borrowed or even remember for sure that I had. As guessed, she demanded it back, ALL OF A SUDDEN, but she couldn't tell me which fucking book it was!!!!! She just wanted it back, NEEDED that one book back right away.

I finally said, "If you don't know which book it was, then HOW can you miss it or know that you need it?". That pissed her off but I didn't really know what else to say. My CURRENT MIL is like that with containers. I am not talking about Tupperware, or even re-usable Gladware you can get at any grocery store. Cool whip containers, sour cream containers, butter tubs, tin pans that bread comes in, mayo jars, etc....Basically whatever she INSISTED you take a leftover home in, she wants it back. How was I supposed to know this as it's BIZARRE to me? She called me up one night at 9pm and said, "I am reorganizing my cabinets and I need ALL of my containers back from this past year and I need them by tomorrow". That was a real mess when I had to tell her that those priceless (worthless) containers met their demise months ago.


"Never a borrower nor lender be", is an EXCELLENT quote to live by.

It sounds as though she did not specify that she wanted the containers back when she gave leftovers to you. I'm not sure why she wouldn't realize that almost no one would think twice about the old butter tub some leftover stuffing is packed in--if anything, they're grateful to have one less thing in the house.

I have a family member who constantly goes to garage sales and fobs off stuff he later decides he doesn't want. I always take the rusty thermos/broken-spined book/1980s Walkman that might work, and say thank you, but those items promptly go into the trash when I get home. And as another poster said, it's irritating that he would think I want the junk that he doesn't.

Oh man, I am definitely also on the anti-stuff bandwagon...at least big stuff anyway. I admit to having a shitload of toys, but I'm a fangirl of many things, so it is essential that I have lots of Pokemon and Sonic toys. But they don't count. Neither do books, since they actually serve a purpose, much like my toys.

My mother...holy hell, she has so much shit and she refuses to get rid of any of it because she spent money on it. Even if it's some little piece of shit she never uses that she bought for 50 cents at a yard sale...it stays because she spent her hard-earned 50 cents on that thing. The basement is loaded up with shit, including a massive cabinet of knick-knacks and all my baby clothes...hopefully she's hanging on to those for sentimental reasons and not because she thinks I'm going to have a kid.

I can't stand having so much shit, and she gets right mad when I want to give something of mine away, especially if she bought it for me. Even if she bought it for me 10 years ago, she will let me have it with both barrels if I dare consider giving away anything. It took me two weeks to convince her to let me give away all my oversized clothes after I'd lost weight...because she, at one time, bought those clothes for me. Therefore, she would be losing money and that's no good. Then she realized how stupid medium-sized me looked in an extra-large shirt and jeans that were 5 sizes too big and let me get rid of the offending clothing. It also took a lot of cajoling to get her to let me donate most of my old toys...again, money she spent on me years and years ago meant she wasn't going to go down without a fight. In the end, I won and we took about ten bags of pristine toys to the thrift store about three weeks before Christmas.

I admit that when I am doing some spring cleaning in my dorm room, I may ask people I know if they would want something I'm giving away...and I try to ask only about stuff that they'd be interested in. But I don't dump all my shit in someone else's room...if I feel it may have some value, it goes on eBay. If it doesn't sell, it goes on the free stuff table in the communal area. If it's useless, it goes in the dumpster.

On the other hand, I like select junk. I go dumpster diving and I frequent thrift stores. But I don't buy large quantities of shit and never get rid of it like my mother does (thankfully).

There are enormous, mega homes in my area. And who owns them? BREEDERS, of course. I see more For Sale signs in those lawns than anywhere. I'm sure most of them are a burden to the taxpayers with this bail-out shit.

Why do breeders think they are entitled to live beyond their means and everyone should bail them out?

I'm one of those people who foists her old magazines off on others. That said, I know once I've given something away it is no longer mine. I just have a hard time throwing out a magazine when I'm done with it, because well...I don't know why, it's interesting? it has/had useful information? pretty pictures? it cost $10 because it was from England and had a free cd attached and is like 1000 times better written than any music magazine in the US and I want to spread the word that our music mags here suck ass?

Anyway...what kind of assclown gives up crap, like a used magazine or koolwhip container, and expects it back? Do they go to the landfill dig out their old socks and tissues too?

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of those people who foists her old
> magazines off on others. That said, I know once
> I've given something away it is no longer mine. I
> just have a hard time throwing out a magazine when
> I'm done with it, because well...I don't know why,
> it's interesting? it has/had useful information?
> pretty pictures? it cost $10 because it was from
> England and had a free cd attached and is like
> 1000 times better written than any music magazine
> in the US and I want to spread the word that our
> music mags here suck ass?
>
> Anyway...what kind of assclown gives up crap, like
> a used magazine or koolwhip container, and expects
> it back? Do they go to the landfill dig out their
> old socks and tissues too?



LOL, they probably do dig through landfills. It's different when you give something which you are finished with like a magazine to other people, but do NOT expect it back. I have come to the conclusion, at least this is true in my experiences, that people who "give away" OBVIOUS worthless things like the containers or even magazines which have been read already, and then DEMAND to get them back, are doing it to gain some sort of warped control over you. This is especially true with my MIL and her "container" fetish. I have been at her house when she opened the cabinet from hell and there is NO WAY she could possibly ever use all of those containers or even BEGIN to know which ones she has, or had. Most of them don't even have lids anymore because she lets her grandpups drag them all over the house and play with them.

It was her tone and attitude when I told her those were thrown away that made me know it was a power play. She was saying shit like, "Yeah (all breathless) I always like to get those back!". After a few minutes of having her practically reprimanded me, I lit into her. I said, "This must be some Kentucky thing, because down in Alabama no one expects used butter tubs back, my bad. If you like, when I can clean out my refrigerator tomorrow, instead of chucking all of my worthless used containers in the trash like I normally do, I'll run them through the dishwasher and bring them straight over." Of course, when she was CALLED on it and made to know just how ridiculous I thought it was, she declined. I don't guess those containers were as important as she had pretended.

I have had enough Mothers in law in my life to know that this type of behavior has to be nipped in the bud, and the sooner the better. I will NOT have my husband's mother dictating to me what I will or won't do, "reprimanding" me, or pulling stupid little power plays on me, ESPECIALLY when she is only 5 years older than I am. I am like Barny Fife, "NIP IT IN THE BUD".

I know a childed woman with a container fetish. She has since learned that if it's a used food container, and shes going to give me food in it, I'm not going to go out of my way to return it. I KNOW she's going to buy more cottage cheese, sour cream or whatever, AND get another container, so really WTF? You aren't ever going to use ALL the containers you accumulate, so you may as well reuse them to send food home with others, because you'll always get a couple "new" ones on the next shopping trip.

Now that I think about it, most childed women I know have container "issues". Weird.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know a childed woman with a container fetish.
> She has since learned that if it's a used food
> container, and shes going to give me food in it,
> I'm not going to go out of my way to return it. I
> KNOW she's going to buy more cottage cheese, sour
> cream or whatever, AND get another container, so
> really WTF? You aren't ever going to use ALL the
> containers you accumulate, so you may as well
> reuse them to send food home with others, because
> you'll always get a couple "new" ones on the next
> shopping trip.
>
> Now that I think about it, most childed women I
> know have container "issues". Weird.

LOL. My mother has piles of containers too, but she does NOT expect them back. She saves them for leftovers and for the express purpose of sending them home with us and fully expects to never see them again. My MIL is the same way about canning jars. Now, I realize if she gave me a WHOLE case or something to carry me through the winter, I could understand it. I am talking about a SINGLE pint jar that had some salsa in it WELL over a year prior to her asking for it back. Since this was after the container incident, I wasn't the least bit surprised. I must have made an impact on her with my earlier container sarcasm, because she made my FIL ask me for it. Actually, I had never even opened it as I hadn't really wanted it anyway, but only took it at her insistence. So, I dumped it out, washed it up, and released said jar to it's rightful owner.