Teacher: Hover Over My Vegetarian PreK Kid Please

from www.urbanbaby.com/talk/posts?page=2

"We are a vegetarian family and today I brought the teacher a note making sure she knew my preK DD is vegetarian and asking her to please help DD to know if they are cooking meat foods in class or if she is about to share a friend's meat lunch. I didn't say the teacher shoudl decide for my DD or forbid my DD to eat anything, just to please help her understand what is meat and what is not so she doesn't eat it by accident. Teacher was very unresponsive and almost looked confused, like I was crazy for asking. Is this nuts of me DD is not familiar with what foods are veggie and what aren't and when/if she eats meat I'd like it to be her decision, not her accident."

Sigh. First of all, does a preschool teacher have nothing better to do than be the meat minder for one child? Second of all, I've always felt very leery of forcing vegetarianism on children. It's difficult enough for veg. adults to get enough B vitamins &c. from a veg. diet...not so good for growing kids IMO. I do love the part about how the kid doesn't even know what is meat and what is not...in other words, this is a diet forced on her by her parents because of their own beliefs, when it's likely that a moderate amount of meat (along with veggies and other good foods) would be good for the kid. Just my take on it.

I'm sure the teacher has all the time in the world to hover over her pweshus widdle snowflake.

If her kid is too stupid at that age to not know what meat is, it deserves to eat it by mistake.

I agree...if your kid doesn't know the difference between a piece of baloney and a celery stick, then maybe they don't know the difference between a cat turd and a tootsie roll, either. Food for thought.

I think that if the kyd has special dietary needs because of health reasons, religious reasons, or for whatever reasons, then it is up to the parent to make sure said kyd takes the appropriate food to school with it. It is ALSO the responsibility of the parent to make sure the kyd knows the difference between MEAT and NON meat, or how to recognize a food it isn't supposed to eat or drink or that it is allergic to, such as milk products. It should NOT fall on the shoulders of a teacher to monitor the kyd's eating habits other than what is considered reasonable and customary for the group of kids as a whole. I think that "special needs" of most any type are up to the parent to meet, ESPECIALLY something which is merely a choice or preference, such as Veganism.

They already expect educators to teach their kyds right from wrong, sex education, and manners, among other things which the parents neglect to do at home. NOW they are sneaking in dietary responsibilities as well when the schools already follow recommended nutritionally planned meals and feed the kyds breakfast, lunch, and snacks. Anything extra should be on the parents' backs, NOT the teachers.

Indeed, the well known radio host and writer Dr. Dean Edell has warned against placing children on vegetarian diets on nutritional grounds. Infants and toddlers can get a condition simply called "failure to thrive" from such diets that leads to death. Over the past several years numerous horrific instances of idiot pahrunts placing their kyds on vegetarian, vegan, and other fad diets (for that is what vegetarianism is) with fatal or very bad results.

The parents of kids with allergies are the worst ones. They will sue if their child is exposed to anything they are allergic to - wheat, dairy, peanuts, etc. Schools may have to quit serving food at all because of this, and require everyone to bring their own lunch. But it gets even worse there, because parents are also demanding that other kids not bring lunches to school with foods their child is allergic to. For example, many parents have tried to ban other kids from bringing peanut butter sandwiches to school.

They could just TEACH their child to avoid peanuts and to not take a bite of someone else's food.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The parents of kids with allergies are the worst
> ones. They will sue if their child is exposed to
> anything they are allergic to - wheat, dairy,
> peanuts, etc. Schools may have to quit serving
> food at all because of this, and require everyone
> to bring their own lunch. But it gets even worse
> there, because parents are also demanding that
> other kids not bring lunches to school with foods
> their child is allergic to. For example, many
> parents have tried to ban other kids from bringing
> peanut butter sandwiches to school.
>
> They could just TEACH their child to avoid peanuts
> and to not take a bite of someone else's food.


They also don't want kyds to bring ham sandwiches to the lunchroom either because it's offensive to Muslims. Last year a kyd got in all kinds of trouble and I think accused of a hate crime because he left a partially eaten ham sandwich, which was still inside the lunch bag , on the lunchroom table where some Muslim kyds sat after he left.

Last year a kyd got in all kinds of trouble and I think accused of a hate crime because he left a partially eaten ham sandwich, which was still inside the lunch bag , on the lunchroom table where some Muslim kyds sat after he left.

Hm. Let's consider this: according to canon law, Catholics still may NOT eat meat on Fridays.

This is what the new Code of Canon Law brought out in 1983 says about the matter: Canon 1251: Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Canon Law still requires that Catholics not eat meat on Fridays!

Schools usually serve some kind of meat every day. They do not respect the orthodox Catholic requirement to abstain from meat on all Fridays. Why do they cower at the orthodox Muslim requiment to abstain from meat products from pigs?

Isn't this a violation of church and state? It's certainly a double standard, if nothing else. I find it intolerable that any one religious group's personal beliefs infringe on another person's right to eat a stupid sandwich!

That's a good point about the Catholic's rule of no meat on Fridays. Our school always had fish on friday to keep the Catholic students happy, but I don't think they do that any longer and they are on their own. Also, Jewish kids don't eat pork either and not ONE of the Jewish kids in my school ever said a word about it, but rather they brought their lunches most of the time. Why is it all of a sudden SO important to honor Muslim kyd's religion? Why are THEIR religious requirements more important than anyone else's needs?

Also, Jewish kids don't eat pork either and not ONE of the Jewish kids in my school ever said a word about it, but rather they brought their lunches most of the time.

Ah, good point, I didn't think of that additional religious requirement. I really hope this kid's parents sued the school for discrimination. It's totally unfair. And school is, nominally at least, a secular arena. Believe and eat what you want, but don't use your religious beliefs to try and coerce others. Things like this really grate on my nerves.

clematis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Jewish kids don't eat pork either and not
> ONE of the Jewish kids in my school ever said a
> word about it, but rather they brought their
> lunches most of the time.
>
> Ah, good point, I didn't think of that additional
> religious requirement. I really hope this kid's
> parents sued the school for discrimination. It's
> totally unfair. And school is, nominally at least,
> a secular arena. Believe and eat what you want,
> but don't use your religious beliefs to try and
> coerce others. Things like this really grate on my
> nerves.

Ditto.

---

lab mom

The "failure to thrive" condition will come out when the kid is fresh out of college and it's time for him/her to fend for himself.

Tell-tale signs of this condition will be: inability to make mature decisions, cook, get out the door on time for work, pay it's own bills, be responsible, keep house, hold down a serious job, and follow the rules.


k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.................. Infants
> and toddlers can get a condition simply called
> "failure to thrive" from such diets that leads to
> death.......................

Wow, I've dealt with all of this. I had a child who had been homesckooled up until I had her in 4th grade. She was a frail looking little thing, and moo wrote me a big letter about ALL of her concerns on the first day of school. One concern was that she was a vegetarian, and was there an alternate vegetarian meal she could have at lunch. She also wanted to make sure we served no meat products at any of our classroom parties. There were so many crazy questions she wanted answered that I called her in for a conference. She was shocked that public school didn't serve an alternative vegetarian meal! We're not an airline! I told her that it would be in her best interest to pack, and bring he own foods for parties or have her child know what she could and couldn't eat.

Catholic Friday-- Believe it or not our county's school system never served meat on Friday the entire time I taught. We had either cheese pizza or a fish sandwich.

Jewish kids that I've taught never made a big deal about anything. They always packed their lunch, and ate what they new they could eat at parties. When we've had our end of the year cookout I would get a pack of Hebrew Nationals for them. I've never taught an Orthodox Jewish children I know their rules are much stricter.

bratBgone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > She also wanted to make sure we served no meat
> products at any of our classroom parties.

I am a vegetarian, too. But I've never requested that no meat be served at a party I was attending! And if I had a child, I would not make such a request for a party he/she was attending. That is outrageous and arrogant to make such a request. Its wrong to dictate what kind of food that a hostess can serve at her party. If you disagree with what she's serving, you have the freedom of choice to not attend the party. Or, you can attend the party and not consume the food that is served.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I am a vegetarian, too. But I've never requested
> that no meat be served at a party I was attending!
> And if I had a child, I would not make such a
> request for a party he/she was attending. That is
> outrageous and arrogant to make such a request.
> Its wrong to dictate what kind of food that a
> hostess can serve at her party. If you disagree
> with what she's serving, you have the freedom of
> choice to not attend the party. Or, you can attend
> the party and not consume the food that is served.


That's very considerate of you. I have several vegetarian friends, and was a vegetarian for 10 years until dh corrupted me! When I have people over I make sure to always have a combination of things that everyone can eat.

The moo that I wrote about wanted me to not have meat at parties (which I really never did, unless it was a pizza party or the end of the year cookout). She said she felt her daughter would be tempted to eat it of it was offered. I let her know that enforcing that would be between her and her daughter. She was understand about this at least, and her kid really wasn't too bad to deal with.

KidlessKim posted: "Why is it all of a sudden SO important to honor Muslim kyd's religion? Why are THEIR religious requirements more important than anyone else's needs?"

Because Muslims are far more likely than Jews or Catholics to kill you or blow up the school if you don't comply.

Oh, I'm fucking sorry. That wasn't politically correct, was it? Please pardon me.

Folks, I don't mean to, er, hog this thread, but you simply MUST read the original news story to see the true depth of WTF-ery.


Student Leaves Ham Sandwich on Lunch Table Near Muslims, Suspended for Hate Crime

Somali Muslim Students Highly Offended, Scarred for Life

A middle school student in Lewiston, Maine is being investigated by the police for a possible hate crime after he placed a bag containing a ham sandwich on a table where Somali students eat lunch. According to the school's superintendent, Leon Levesque, the student has been suspended, and more disciplinary action could follow pending the outcome of the investigation.

Muslims, who believe pork to be unclean and highly offensive, were reminded of a man who threw a pig's head into a mosque located in Lewiston last summer. "That ham sandwich in a bag where we couldn't even see might as well have been that pig's head," said one of the traumatized Somali students, "and that cafeteria might as well have been the most religious building for Muslims in the state of Maine."

According to Superintendent Levesque, "the school incident is being treated seriously as a hate incident." Police are currently investigating the matter alongside the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence, who is also working with the school to create an anti-ham "response plan."

"We've got some work to do to turn this around and bring the school community back together again." Said Levesque, "These children have got to learn that ham is not a toy, and that there are consequences for being nonchalant about where you put your sandwich."

"Placing ham where Muslim students were eating as an awful thing," said Stephen Wessler, the executive director of the Center for Prevention of Hate Violence. "It's extraordinarily hurtful and degrading. They probably felt like they were back in Mogadishu starving and being shot at. No child, Muslim or normal, should have to endure touching a ham sandwich."

Wessler continued, "incidents like this that involve degrading language or conduct are often said by the perpetrator as a joke. But unfortunately we don't live in a world where young children try to be funny, we live in a society in which these types of actions always escalate into violence against minorities."

"If people think insulting Muslims with ham is okay, more degrading acts will follow. The Jews had to go through the same thing when the Nazis would force-feed them bacon; do we really want our schools to become concentration camps?"

Added Levesque, "the incident does not reflect the moral values of the school staff and students. We need to take a look at this and review how a careless act is degrading and causes hurt to other people. All our students should feel welcome in our schools, knowing that they are safe from attacks with ham, bacon, porkchops, or any other delicious meat that comes from pigs."

According to Levesque, a letter has been sent home to parents to explain the incident and outline the school's response. The next step will be for Wessler to meet with the students to address the school's atmosphere, after which staff will discuss how to respond to future hate incidents, with emphasis on their prevention.

Said one of the students who witnessed the event, "I know the guy who put the sandwich there, he just wanted to be funny and see how those Somalis would react. I'm just glad that kid I beat up yesterday was white; I wouldn't want to be in that mess."

One of the victims, whose mother didn't want his name released, said "we didn't know what was in this bag. One of my friends reached inside it. It was a big ham steak. There were five of us at the table, all Somali. Right then, I could feel allah condemning me to burn for eternity for being within a 6.2 meter radius of ham, so yeah, it was a hate crime."

The boy said that he felt better after several students apologized for the incident and said that the kids who did it were jerks, "but for the rest of my life when I remember middle school, this will pop up right away," the boy said, "it's like I'm back in Somalia being shot at all over again."

This story was originally posted on that site over a year ago and appears to be an Onion-type spoof. Trust me, if this story were for real, it would have been all over the media and inciting an uproar.

Clues that it's fake:

"Added Levesque, '...All our students should feel welcome in our schools, knowing that they are safe from attacks with ham, bacon, porkchops, or any other delicious meat that comes from pigs.' " Right. As if the principal would actually have said "delicious" in that context.

"One of the victims, whose mother didn't want his name released, said '...Right then, I could feel allah condemning me to burn for eternity for being within a 6.2 meter radius of ham, so yeah, it was a hate crime.' " Within 6.2 meters? As opposed to 6.1 or 6.3? Right. Feral pigs run free in much of the Middle East. Give me a break.

Also: creating "an anti-ham 'response plan' "; histronics such as "No child, Muslim or normal, should have to endure touching a ham sandwich."

This post was a satire. But I still stand by my previous comments, given that Muslims seem to be pushing such things as airports installing foot baths and the like. They can't wash their feet at home?

Well, you are right, k-man. That post turns out to be a satire, and I have to say I feel rather foolish. I did wonder after posting, and like you I noticed the improbable "6.2 meters" and googled it...nothing. I apologize for being unintentionally misleading.

Turns out it is based on a real incident, though. Here's a more legit story from the Maine Sun-Journal:


'Hate incident' in city

By Bonnie Washuk , Staff Writer
Thursday, April 19, 2007

LEWISTON - One student has been suspended and more disciplinary action could follow a possible hate crime at Lewiston Middle School, Superintendent Leon Levesque said Wednesday.

On April 11, a white student placed a ham steak in a bag on a lunch table where Somali students were eating. Muslims consider pork unclean and offensive.

The act reminded students of a man who threw a pig's head into a Lewiston mosque last summer.

The school incident is being treated seriously as "a hate incident," Levesque said. Lewiston police are investigating, and the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence is working with the school to create a response plan.

"We've got some work to do to turn this around and bring the school community back together again," Levesque said.

Placing ham where Muslim students were eating was "an awful thing," said Stephen Wessler, executive director of the Center for Prevention of Hate Violence. "It's extraordinarily hurtful and degrading" to Muslims, whose religion prohibits them from being around ham. It's important to respond swiftly, Wessler said.

"Incidents like this that involve degrading language or conduct are often said by the perpetrator as a joke. I know that conduct is never static," he said. "It's part of a process of escalation."

If people think insulting Muslims with ham is OK, "More degrading acts will follow, until at some point we'll end up having violence," Wessler said.

The incident does not reflect the moral values of the school staff and students, Levesque said. "We need to take a look at this and review how a careless act is degrading and causes hurt to other people. All our students should feel welcome and safe in our schools."

He said a letter would be sent home to parents explaining what happened and outlining the school's response. Wessler will meet with students to address the school's climate, and staff will talk about how to respond to and prevent future hate incidents
'I didn't feel safe'

A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"

"We didn't know what was in this bag," the boy said. "One of my friends reached inside it. It was a big ham steak. There were five of us at the table, all Somali. It was intended for us."

The boy said he looked up at students he thought were his friends. "I felt angered, offended."

He suddenly felt like he was alone. "At the school the next day, I didn't feel safe. I felt like everybody was against me. Before I felt like I fit in, and everything was normal."

He began to think white students didn't like him, and the act was their way of letting him know.

On Thursday, several students came up to him and said, "Those guys who did it were jerks. I apologize for them, and I hope you feel better."

The boy said they did make him feel better. "But for the rest of my life when I remember middle school, this will pop up right away."

He spoke out because he wants the community to know what happened, "that there is something like this going on in our schools."

Wessler and Levesque said the act happened the day before April vacation began, which prevented educators from gathering information.

"This is not done," Wessler said.

Unless you're dealing with a life-threatening allergy, then you either bring your own fucking lunch or you eat whatever is given to you!

I do think this actually happened around the same time that kyd in Florida was arrested for bringing a steak knife to school to cut up her lunch. I don't remember it being exactly like that spoofed story, but I am pretty sure a kyd left his unfinished lunch which included a ham sandwich on their table on purpose to be an asshole and at least was reprimanded for it. I'll see if I can find the actual incident later on and post it. EVEN IF it ends up being some net gossip or an urban legend in the making, you can bet your ass that IF it were to actually happen, a HUGE stink would be made about it. Their Koran says they only get in trouble for touching the pig if they do it voluntarily and there are also rules in place that says they can be forgiven if they knowingly consume pork if they are starving to death. Of course they have to do a lot of what amounts to atonements probably with extra feet washings and mumbling mumbo jumbo on their prayer cloths and what not.

Political correctness is out of control these days.

Do some research, please. You CAN raise healthy kids on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Those parents that starve their kids to death aren't feeding them well-rounded veggie diets. They feed them, say, only sunflower seeds and raw spinach because they read somewhere that everything else is POISON! In other words, they are nut jobs. But that's not most people raising their kids as vegetarian.

Don't worry. I am not a parent invading your board. I have no desire to breed. I don't much like kids myself. But I am a vegetarian and have been since I was young and had to set the record straight.

Forgot to add, I agree it's not the teacher's responsibility to supervise what this kid puts in its mouth.

clematis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, good point, I didn't think of that additional
> religious requirement. I really hope this kid's
> parents sued the school for discrimination. It's
> totally unfair. And school is, nominally at least,
> a secular arena. Believe and eat what you want,
> but don't use your religious beliefs to try and
> coerce others. Things like this really grate on my
> nerves.

Then you haven't encounted 'little muslim days' at some schools. California and I think some other state had 'let's pretend we're little diaperheads'.
This only displays the abysmal ignorance of so called educators. I don't care how secular some muslim nations are: their gutter religion is present at all levels of their government so they aare far more of a theocracy then we ever were. Of course, the ACLU is nowhere to be found in cases like this. They only are afraid of kids with bibles. when the ACLU will start going after the above cases as well, they will impress me a bit more.