Why is science for chyldren, chyldren, chyldren?

You know, fascinating stuff like astronomy, dinosaurs, plant life, zoology, and pretty rocks.

I love to get books on these subjects and I also enjoy going to science and natural history museums around U.S.

Well, I got a very dazzling National Geographic book on stars and planets (it looks very professional with a beautiful illustration of stars and glowing nebula on its glossy cover, BTW) from the library. Guess what kind of tone it carries?

Even though this nice-looking book looks like it belongs on a coffee table and doesn't say anything about being for kyds, it kinda "talks down" to reader like he or she is maybe about 11 years old. The print is also kinda big. Aw, I want to learn a little more about my favorite planets and stars even at the ripe old age of 37!

What's more, science museums that I love to visit and also their gift shops seem to pander to the tiny tots under the age of 12, too.=P

Does a person's brain completely SHUT DOWN or what by the time he or she reaches puberty or worse, parunthood?=/

I totally agree--the marketing of science to kids only has baffled me many times.

DH is going to Washington DC next week for his company, to teach a class. I immediately recommended the National Museum of Health and Medicine; "America's only taxpayer-funded Cabinet of Curiosities." They have pieces of Lincoln's skull, giant hairballs (recently had a hairball exhibit to commemorate 'National Hairball Awareness Week') and Civil War Union Major General Daniel Sickle's leg bone, destroyed by a cannonball. He used to visit his leg bone at this museum on the anniversary of its amputation. Also, exhibits related to death by arsenic, a series of fetal skeletons: the works. The only people who go there are by and large school groups--but I spent a whole day there years ago, agog at the weird and wonderful medical exhibits.

Museum review: http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2114

Hairball awareness week?????????? Lord help us.

Thanks for the info on the National Museum of Health and Medicine. It sounds a bit like the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia--also a very cool place to visit.

And never, ever apologize for being interested in the world around you! Only lazy, ignorant and boring people allow their brains to shut down. Brain stagnation for me would be a fate worse than death.

Thanks for the museum info, clematis. I live about 30 mins. outside of DC, and wasn't aware of that one! DH and I will have to check it out one weekend.
I've noticed a great weekend to visit the DC museums is the weekend before Christmas break for students. (Dec. 13-14) Everyone is Christmas shopping, and the museums are almost empty. We always make a museum visit of some kind then.

You have to understand...
What these screw y'alls are churning out nowadays are lucky if they can read at the 5th grade level.
That might explain the tone of the book.

I think there is a big push to get kids interested in science careers, but I don't think it will work. Kids these days are far more interested in playing video games and watching sports.

casseyrod Wrote:
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> I think there is a big push to get kids interested
> in science careers, but I don't think it will
> work. Kids these days are far more interested in
> playing video games and watching sports.


Bread and circus..
we're watching how rome fell

http://www.creationmuseum.org/


They opened the MOTHER of kiddie "science" museums in my state recently which spans tens of thousands of square feet, was designed by a former Universal Studio engineer, and cost in the BILLIONS to erect. It's The Creation Museum with the slogan, "Prepare to believe", located just outside of Cincinnati in Petersburg, KY. While I have never been to it, I know plenty of people who have as one of the churches in town has a bus that makes the trip to it about once a month and it's ALWAYS filled to capapcity. My breeder inlaws have already been several times with all of the grandpups. The whole place is based on fundamentalist creationism right down to dispelling scientific "myths" like evolution side by side with an extravagant production or exhibit of something taken literally from The Bible, like The Great flood and Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve (although Eve's breasts are covered and Adams dick covered BEFORE they ate the notorious forbidden fruit), and just about any other "science" is explained away with special effects and depictions of familiar bible stories. Everything is based on the earth only having been here for 6000 years, like they say The Bibles says.

Among other shit which can be viewed in the 2 hour tour, is the Dinosaur exhibit. Since fundies believe that dinosaur co-existed with man (the beomoth) they have exhibits with smaller Dino all saddled up and being ridden by childryn as if he was a family pet, I am NOT kidding. I think that this place is one of the BIGGEST, scientifically incorrect yet touted as factual history, embarrassments ever built. However, it has had MILLIONS of visitors and the numbers only seem to be increasing. I have an atheist friend who went to it with some friends and he said that while it was absurd and he had to laugh a great deal at it, that it was very impressive and geared toward kids and he could EASLIY see how kids could walk away from it "believing", as have some adults.

Fundies at their lowest, IMO. I can't help but wonder how many hungry mouths they could have fed for the cost of this nonsense, instead of feeding young minds a bunch of trash?????

Being at the Mutter museum with breeders sucked bigtime.

I also love science, and going to museums (all kinds, but my dream is to work in a history museum). The trick is in knowing the right time to go to these places. Don't go on Saturdays...you'll have to fight the family crowd. When we visited Chicago last spring, the hubby and I went to the Art Institute of Chicago and the Field Museum on a weekday...we saw kids on field trips, but generally, teachers are pretty good about corralling the kids and keeping them focused.

I so want to visit the Mutter Museum, especially now that I live closer to Philadelphia...I'm originally from the DC area, so I've been to most of the museums down that way.

P.S. Banshee, check out this book...I'm an astronomy buff, as well, and I love this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Tour-Travelers-Guide-System/dp/0761135472/ref=pd_bbs_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222189728&sr=8-7

The Mutter is awesome- there was a show last week on discovery or travel where they show you all the stuff in the back rooms- awesome. Body Worlds was here too and was very enlightening and they charged an absurd amount to get in- and keep the "Ew gross" crowd out.

Wow, kidlesskim, that's a mess of a museum! I looked at the museum store, and this is a teaching guide that goes along with one of the toys. There are some really fucked up "scientific" explainations for things. I'll bet tons of homeskooled kids go there for field trips.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/pdfs/Downloads/25-3-073_presentation.pdf

It's easy for a place like the creation museum to be filled to the gills while actual, facts based museums are relatively empty. Like with the Passion of the Christ, churches will load up the cars with sheep and pay their admission so they can go...over and over and over. While other entities have to actually account for their monies, churches don't have to answer to anyone but their parishioners. Since parishioners are more than happy to believe whatever line the pastor feeds them, and would never even think of questioning where their tithes go, churches can essentially do whatever they want.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

cfhistorian Wrote:
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> P.S. Banshee, check out this book...I'm an
> astronomy buff, as well, and I love this one:
> http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Tour-Travelers-Guide-S
> ystem/dp/0761135472/ref=pd_bbs_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&q
> id=1222189728&sr=8-7

Thank you!^.^

And actual science is making religion wrong in some ways, shaking fundies down to their socks, too?

Banshee Wrote:
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> And actual science is making religion wrong in
> some ways, shaking fundies down to their socks,
> too?


Not the die hard fundies it isn't because they have a religious/biblical explanation for EVERYTHING. Either they claim that science backs up scripture, when on occasion it randomly does or they make it "fit", OR they claim that the information is incorrect or downright fraudulent and that "Jews and Atheists" are behind it. Many fundamentalists believe that evolution is an anti-Christian idea that is completely fraudulent and created on purpose as blasphemy against God and Christianity. Many also think that evolution and other scientific discoveries or findings which disprove The Bible is a conspiracy by Atheists and Jews to cast doubt in Christians' minds in regards to literal belief in The Bible and to erode their faith. Some think that Satan Worshippers are behind it, but some even think that ALL non Protestant Christians are synonymous with "Devil Worshippers".

You have no idea how deeply indoctrintated and absolutely BRAINWASHED that the fundamentalist Christians are until or unless you actually live among them. I grew up in and around it and even when I was slap in the throes of it and had many doubts and asked lots of questions, they all prayed for me (publically and intensely) and for God to take away my inquisitive nature because they were afraid for my soul at age 16. I "escaped", but it was years before they stopped pestering me and I STILL have a lot of their ways and ideas memorized and implanted in my brain because of years and years of rote (and incorrect) teachings, and apparently their prayers didn't work because I still asks lots of questions and NEVER blindly follow anything. It takes an above average intelligence and a VERY strong will to break away from these cults, which is EXACTLY what fundie religious groups are;cults. Personally, I think they are dangerous and I don't say that lightly. I think (I KNOW) that some of them will commit murder in the "name of the Lord", and they are very secretive about it. I saw some shit as a child (that I wasn't supposed to) that scares me, to this day.

Banshee and KidlessKim, you might wish to check the Edward R. Hamilton website or get on the mailing list for its sales flyers. Last year I got an excellent textbook on planetary science and astronomy for something like $10—the kind of book that a university bookstore would have sold for $100. Hamilton is a remaindered-book seller: that is, publisher's overstocks, leftovers, and the like, and also has decent prices on some currect and new books as well.

I keyed this quickly without actually finding the link, but Hamilton's site is easy enough to find with Google. There are two: the regular site, which enables you to print an order blank to mail with a check or money order, and a second with higher prices that allows credit card sales. I recommend the former, as the shipping and handling total is only $3.50 (last I checked) regardless of order size. No billing or CODs with Hamilton; orders must be prepaid. (No doubt some breeders fuss about that!) Both sites have search engines.

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Banshee and KidlessKim, you might wish to check
> the Edward R. Hamilton website or get on the
> mailing list for its sales flyers. Last year I
> got an excellent textbook on planetary science and
> astronomy for something like $10—the kind of book
> that a university bookstore would have sold for
> $100. Hamilton is a remaindered-book seller: that
> is, publisher's overstocks, leftovers, and the
> like, and also has decent prices on some currect
> and new books as well.
>
> I keyed this quickly without actually finding the
> link, but Hamilton's site is easy enough to find
> with Google. There are two: the regular site,
> which enables you to print an order blank to mail
> with a check or money order, and a second with
> higher prices that allows credit card sales. I
> recommend the former, as the shipping and handling
> total is only $3.50 (last I checked) regardless of
> order size. No billing or CODs with Hamilton;
> orders must be prepaid. (No doubt some breeders
> fuss about that!) Both sites have search engines.


That would be of interest to me, thanks K-man. However, no amount of knowledge will deter a fundie as they have an answer for everything. For instance, a secret tomb could be discovered in Bethlehem containing the remains of Joseph, Mary and Jesus himself. It could be verified by independent biblical scholars from ALL known Christian denominations from around the world and agreed upon by all present that those were in fact, the bodies of the first Christian famblee. It could have stone tablets with writings confirming that these were their bodies, and then RE-confirmed ten times over by several world renowned and respected archaeologists. Then you could have Nobel prize winning scientists confirm that the dates of the remains, the tomb, and writings were consistent with all of the other evidence collected as being from the correct time period. They (the fundies) would be happy campers up until this point.

THEN, DNA testing from 10 different independent and unsuspecting labs could confirm that Joseph and Mary were the BIOLOGICAL parents of the remains of Jesus and that here were no other unusual or unexplainable possibilities as to the paternity of Jesus. After ALL of that proof that there was nothing more here than a human male and a human female who had sex and produced a child, the fundies would most likely say one of three things.

1)The evidence was planted, manipulated, or in some way fraud was committed in order to turn people away from God or with the malicious intent to discredit The Bible.
2)God intended for the DNA to appear to be Joseph's and his reasons are not ours to judge or understand
3)God works in mysterious ways that we as humans do not have the capacity to comprehend


They absolutely will NOT accept any evidence, no matter how irrefutable and convincing, that the way or what they believe may be incorrect. When all else fails and in the face of the obvious, they will clam up and say, "I can't explain it, I just have faith". Religious fanatics are the MOST frustrating people in THE WORLD to have a religious (or most any other) debate with because they will never concede. It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with someone whose mind is locked up tighter than Ft. Knox and as empty as a "closed womb".

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Banshee and KidlessKim, you might wish to check
> the Edward R. Hamilton website or get on the
> mailing list for its sales flyers. Last year I
> got an excellent textbook on planetary science and
> astronomy for something like $10—the kind of book
> that a university bookstore would have sold for
> $100. Hamilton is a remaindered-book seller: that
> is, publisher's overstocks, leftovers, and the
> like, and also has decent prices on some currect
> and new books as well.
>
> thank you.

I can say "amen" to fundies being unwilling to listen to or believe any point of view, study, scientific theory that does not agree with their benighted world view. For a while I tried to talk sense into a couple of fundies I knew on another board and just gave up. These people WANT to be ignorant.

kidlesskim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Banshee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> You have no idea how deeply indoctrintated and
> absolutely BRAINWASHED that the fundamentalist
> Christians are until or unless you actually live
> among them.

Trust me. I know. I live among them.