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Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead

Posted by cfdavep 
Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 22, 2018
https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/9qarcs/i_will_not_give_in_to_my_babytrapper_who_now/

The guy gets oopsed by some wannabreed who fishes condoms out of the trash to impignate herself and has the kid, and is now complaining that moohood sucks and is demanding help from the duh who made it clear she will be a single moo while still in the abortion zone. Interesting reactions to the case on reddit. Apparently some judge in Illinois says that once a man "blows his load" (he didn't say it like that) in a female then the sperm is "legally hers"

A commenter said that even amonst most pro-choicers there is this idea that to have sex is to agree to a kid
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 22, 2018
Sounds like someone who should start communicating with his ex only via a lawyer.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 22, 2018
It is too bad this happened to him. And she sounds like a real piece of work.

While I don't think the taxpayers should be liable when this happens there are a few things that make sense:
Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. There is a high likelihood there is something in the bathroom that would destroy sperm. Or they can keep the used condom, perhaps in a plastic baggy. Better yet would be to create a condom that has spermicide on the inside instead of just the outside. If all else fails, flush it!

For cases of reproductive coercion the baby is either aborted or given up for adoption. If the mother is the one who did the coercion and demands to keep the baby then she is 100% responsible for the baby with no financial help from the father or taxpayers. Birth father is legally removed and so are any parental rights. This would make her think twice about carrying a baby to term.

If the father is the one who coerced and the mother decides to carry to term then he can apply for adoption and if approved he becomes legally 100% responsible for the baby with no financial help from the birth mother or taxpayers.

Either option will likely result in an increase in abortions and making it no-nonsense will cause the reproductive coercion jerk population to decline. They'll have to find another way to get their kicks.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 22, 2018
saw the thread. still can't comment. sent a note to the mod stating I'm not a troll. (not sure what their definition of one is. of course, no answer from them.) I read through a lot of it.
apparently the brood sow is unhinged. kid is defective, she can't stand it, running to lawyers trying to prevent him from leaving because he's a daaaaaad. she has no leg to stand on. bed. made. lie. have no sympathy for her kodak fantasies.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children
and I defy anyone to prove me wrong:

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

If I want to hear the pitter-patter of little feet I'll put shoes on my pets.

Mankind and its needs (wants) are like unto a black hole. It devours all available resources and it never is full: it merely grows larger and demands more.

Definition of 'wealthy': Anyone who makes more/has more than you do.

Someone pointed out that I'm a realist. And all along I thought I was just a pessimist crossed with a cynic.

Entitlement, thy name is mooooooooooooooo

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.
Add to this that, many of those who refuse or are unable to prove they are
citizens, will receive free insurance paid for by those who are.""

I am confused enough already. I do not need outside help.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 22, 2018
Sounds like she figured that he would just melt and wuv it once it got here, in spite of telling her that he was going to go on like the brat didn't exist while she was still in pig, and then she acts shocked/pissed when he does precisely what he said he was going to do. Bitch is lucky she's even getting brat support because when this guy moves away, he won't even be under any obligation to pay it and he's just doing it to be a decent person.

She decided to play roulette using the sperm of a non-committed sex partner without his consent, sluiced a tard that SHE unilaterally chose to have, and now is trying to make him help her with the kid he explicitly said he didn't want because she's fucking sick of it. I'd bet you anything she doesn't put a dime of the child support toward actual child care either - she probably spends it on herself because she "deserves" it for raising a problem child on her own. You can't use someone's sperm to make a kid and then act upset when they're not okay with it and I'm glad the guy is standing his ground.

Also, can someone explain to me why anyone would want someone to raise their child that didn't want a child? I don't mean because of legal obligations and biological relation - I mean if a sexual partner has expressed that they want nothing at all to do with their child, why would you want them to be part of the kid's life? Wouldn't you want someone who actually wants the kid to help raise them? Actually, I already know the answer to that: it's a parent who doesn't give a single fuck about their child and they just want to dump the kid on somebody so they don't have to bother with them (and probably also have a scapegoat for when the kid misbehaves or gets in trouble). Speaks volumes about someone when they come out and say they want someone who doesn't want/like kids to raise kids.

Quote
From comments
She's just pissed she didn't get her meal ticket, and now isn't in a position to find another one.

This person hit the nail on the head. Moo is butthurt that she couldn't trap a guy into fatherhood so she could live easy for the rest of her life, but now that she's a single mother saddled with an awtard, no man is going to want anything to do with her ass.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 22, 2018
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freya

Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. .

Tabasco Sauce ^^^^. Nothing seriously damaging, but she'll get what she deserves if she sticks it up there.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 23, 2018
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childfreeadvocate
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freya

Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. .

Tabasco Sauce ^^^^. Nothing seriously damaging, but she'll get what she deserves if she sticks it up there.

YEOW!
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 23, 2018
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childfreeadvocate
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freya

Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. .

Tabasco Sauce ^^^^. Nothing seriously damaging, but she'll get what she deserves if she sticks it up there.

And then he gets charged with assault. :/
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 23, 2018
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kittehpeoples
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childfreeadvocate
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freya

Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. .

Tabasco Sauce ^^^^. Nothing seriously damaging, but she'll get what she deserves if she sticks it up there.

And then he gets charged with assault. :/

Might get 22 years in jail for it, like the guy who tried to give the girl the morning-after-pill (?) she didn't take.

I can see the comments from mombies if this played out already "he had a hunch she wanted to get pregnant, so he may as well have tied her up and poured the whole bottle in her cooch!!!!"
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
It's grossly unfair when people aren't given the opportunity to exercise reproductive freedom. I find it sad that there aren't many options for men, and then there are places where even if a man is prepared to take a serious step like vasectomy, he's not entitled to. Of course the situation for women is also not ideal: abortion restrictions and even more barriers to accessing sterilization.

Men in this situation of restricted access to sterilization should take the step of rinsing out the condom down the sink before discarding it, or of taking it with them to dispose of elsewhere. But of course it's hard to predict that someone would be that desperate and horrible, because presumably if you are that suspicious of someone, you don't have sex with them.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
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yurble

Men in this situation of restricted access to sterilization should take the step of rinsing out the condom down the sink before discarding it, or of taking it with them to dispose of elsewhere. But of course it's hard to predict that someone would be that desperate and horrible, because presumably if you are that suspicious of someone, you don't have sex with them.

Imagine you slept with a guy for the first time, he runs into the bathroom 3 seconds after he finishes, instead of enjoying the afterglow, and when you go the bathroom to clean up yourself, you notice the condom has been thourougly rinsed.

Some childfree women wouldn't get offended. But a lot would. And the average women would be PISSED. This action would NOT make her feel romantic, would NOT inspire trust, and might instantly destroy any shot at a second date / second lay.

I'm not saying your advice is wrong - I rinsed a few in my early 20s before I got smart and banned myself from having sex with religious girls. And there were a couple times I SHOULD have rinsed, just to be on the safe side, but didn't. And either got lucky they didn't swab / stick.

But it's not realistically going to happen on a wide scale. Too many potentially hurt feelings, with the potential to ruin future lays, for guys to do it every single time.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
I guess it's just me, but when I was young, single and having protected sex, I never would've thought to look in the garbage to see if they'd rinsed out the condoms before tossing. It just wouldn't have occurred to me to look. My husband has had a vasectomy, so those things were never a problem for us in the first place.

I guess it could be by happenstance, that a woman would put something in the garbage afterwards and see the rinsed condom in the trash bin, but I'm thinking that it wouldn't be all too common for a woman to do that, unless she was wanting to use the sperm for impregnation in the first place.

It's sad to think that people have to be so cautious nowadays of these situations. I feel really bad for the guy who this happened to. I'll bet he wished he rinsed that bad boy out well instead of just leaving it in the trash the way it was. Bitch deserves what she gets after doing that to him.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
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childfreeadvocate
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yurble

Men in this situation of restricted access to sterilization should take the step of rinsing out the condom down the sink before discarding it, or of taking it with them to dispose of elsewhere. But of course it's hard to predict that someone would be that desperate and horrible, because presumably if you are that suspicious of someone, you don't have sex with them.

Imagine you slept with a guy for the first time, he runs into the bathroom 3 seconds after he finishes, instead of enjoying the afterglow, and when you go the bathroom to clean up yourself, you notice the condom has been thourougly rinsed.

Some childfree women wouldn't get offended. But a lot would. And the average women would be PISSED. This action would NOT make her feel romantic, would NOT inspire trust, and might instantly destroy any shot at a second date / second lay.

I'm not saying your advice is wrong - I rinsed a few in my early 20s before I got smart and banned myself from having sex with religious girls. And there were a couple times I SHOULD have rinsed, just to be on the safe side, but didn't. And either got lucky they didn't swab / stick.

But it's not realistically going to happen on a wide scale. Too many potentially hurt feelings, with the potential to ruin future lays, for guys to do it every single time.

Personally, I think it's a good sign when someone shows interest in their sexual health and reproductive freedom. People should be talking about what contraceptive method(s) will be used, what will happen if there is an accident, and what measures they've taken to ensure they have an accurate picture of their STI status - all before having sex. Maybe it's not romantic or erotic, but someone who both thinks about these things and considers them important enough to discuss goes up in my estimation.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
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yurble
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childfreeadvocate
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yurble

Men in this situation of restricted access to sterilization should take the step of rinsing out the condom down the sink before discarding it, or of taking it with them to dispose of elsewhere. But of course it's hard to predict that someone would be that desperate and horrible, because presumably if you are that suspicious of someone, you don't have sex with them.

Imagine you slept with a guy for the first time, he runs into the bathroom 3 seconds after he finishes, instead of enjoying the afterglow, and when you go the bathroom to clean up yourself, you notice the condom has been thourougly rinsed.

Some childfree women wouldn't get offended. But a lot would. And the average women would be PISSED. This action would NOT make her feel romantic, would NOT inspire trust, and might instantly destroy any shot at a second date / second lay.

I'm not saying your advice is wrong - I rinsed a few in my early 20s before I got smart and banned myself from having sex with religious girls. And there were a couple times I SHOULD have rinsed, just to be on the safe side, but didn't. And either got lucky they didn't swab / stick.

But it's not realistically going to happen on a wide scale. Too many potentially hurt feelings, with the potential to ruin future lays, for guys to do it every single time.

Personally, I think it's a good sign when someone shows interest in their sexual health and reproductive freedom. People should be talking about what contraceptive method(s) will be used, what will happen if there is an accident, and what measures they've taken to ensure they have an accurate picture of their STI status - all before having sex. Maybe it's not romantic or erotic, but someone who both thinks about these things and considers them important enough to discuss goes up in my estimation.

Me too. But young people are insecure, and care more about getting laid at ages 15-25 than thinking about the long term. Furthermore, most people believe in some sort of higher power, and are influenced by their own breeder parents morals, regardless of how religious those parents may or may not be. If you factor all those things together, it's really no wonder half or more people have a kid before age 26, and more than half of those subsequent marriages / relationships fail.

My own parents aren't traditionally religious, but knowingly watched me date girls they knew were poor and stupid enough to have a kid if they accidentally got pregnant, and only warned me outright on one of them. Their attitude seemed to be "if he fucks up his life its on him". It was only by watching others' mistakes, and adjusting my behavior accordingly over time, that I was able to escape a bad ending along the lines of trashcan-fished-man.

Now my parents shower my brother and sister-in-law with 10x the visits and financial support for making grandkids, while giving me the cold shoulder for making something of myself besides a Duh. They say they aren't offended I'm not carrying on their genetic make up but....their actions over the last decade say quite the opposite.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
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mumofsixbirds
I guess it's just me, but when I was young, single and having protected sex, I never would've thought to look in the garbage to see if they'd rinsed out the condoms before tossing. It just wouldn't have occurred to me to look. My husband has had a vasectomy, so those things were never a problem for us in the first place.

I guess it could be by happenstance, that a woman would put something in the garbage afterwards and see the rinsed condom in the trash bin, but I'm thinking that it wouldn't be all too common for a woman to do that, unless she was wanting to use the sperm for impregnation in the first place.

It's sad to think that people have to be so cautious nowadays of these situations. I feel really bad for the guy who this happened to. I'll bet he wished he rinsed that bad boy out well instead of just leaving it in the trash the way it was. Bitch deserves what she gets after doing that to him.

Me either. I was just happy to not see the condom at all afterwards and bask in the afterglow. Never thought to see if it were rinsed but then again I was about as child free as imaginable and wouldn't have cared if it were rinsed.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 24, 2018
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childfreeadvocate
I'm not saying your advice is wrong - I rinsed a few in my early 20s before I got smart and banned myself from having sex with religious girls. And there were a couple times I SHOULD have rinsed, just to be on the safe side, but didn't. And either got lucky they didn't swab / stick.

But it's not realistically going to happen on a wide scale. Too many potentially hurt feelings, with the potential to ruin future lays, for guys to do it every single time.

Have you known men who have been swab/stick oopsed childfreeadvocate? This post on Reddit is the first time I've heard of this happening other than urban legends/rumors is why I ask. Also as a child free woman I'd never have any motivation to think of doing this or other oopsing tactics.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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mumofsixbirds
I guess it's just me, but when I was young, single and having protected sex, I never would've thought to look in the garbage to see if they'd rinsed out the condoms before tossing. It just wouldn't have occurred to me to look. My husband has had a vasectomy, so those things were never a problem for us in the first place.

I guess it could be by happenstance, that a woman would put something in the garbage afterwards and see the rinsed condom in the trash bin, but I'm thinking that it wouldn't be all too common for a woman to do that, unless she was wanting to use the sperm for impregnation in the first place.

Thinking about it, I've never seen a condom in a garbage bin where I could tell if it had been rinsed or not. Even if you know the condom wasn't used it is hard to tell the difference between it and one that was. You'd have to be looking at it rather closely to see, and the only reason I can think of for doing that is if it had missed the garbage bin and was on the floor, or if one wanted it for nefarious purposes.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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freya
For cases of reproductive coercion the baby is either aborted or given up for adoption. If the mother is the one who did the coercion and demands to keep the baby then she is 100% responsible for the baby with no financial help from the father or taxpayers. Birth father is legally removed and so are any parental rights. This would make her think twice about carrying a baby to term..

How could you possibly prove that she fished the condom out of the trash? It would be a golden excuse for every deadbeat to weasel out of their obligations.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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freya
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childfreeadvocate
I'm not saying your advice is wrong - I rinsed a few in my early 20s before I got smart and banned myself from having sex with religious girls. And there were a couple times I SHOULD have rinsed, just to be on the safe side, but didn't. And either got lucky they didn't swab / stick.

But it's not realistically going to happen on a wide scale. Too many potentially hurt feelings, with the potential to ruin future lays, for guys to do it every single time.

Have you known men who have been swab/stick oopsed childfreeadvocate? This post on Reddit is the first time I've heard of this happening other than urban legends/rumors is why I ask. Also as a child free woman I'd never have any motivation to think of doing this or other oopsing tactics.

Not personally. But I've definitely heard of this happening LONG before this story came out. Every men's college / pro athletics coach in the country teachers their athletes not to trust a woman alone with their condoms - used or unused.

I know when any childfree woman who vehemently stated she never wanted kids said to me "I've got condoms" my answer was always "I've got my own, thanks but no thanks"

Hurt feelings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18 years of child support for a kid you never wanted.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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JoJo
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freya
For cases of reproductive coercion the baby is either aborted or given up for adoption. If the mother is the one who did the coercion and demands to keep the baby then she is 100% responsible for the baby with no financial help from the father or taxpayers. Birth father is legally removed and so are any parental rights. This would make her think twice about carrying a baby to term..

How could you possibly prove that she fished the condom out of the trash? It would be a golden excuse for every deadbeat to weasel out of their obligations.

Can't.. That's why she'll get away with it. Unless he got snipped and she fucked another guy behind his back and he's waiting til the delivery room to tell her - like one guy actually did in another story posted to this page.

Fact is, if you're a man, even one married to a women under 45, who hasn't had a tubal, even for 15 years - it's better never to leave her alone with her sperm. Ever.

Sounds sexist as hell, but....it's the only guaranteed way to prevent this from happening, and risk becoming a "deadbeat" - right?
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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yurble
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mumofsixbirds
I guess it's just me, but when I was young, single and having protected sex, I never would've thought to look in the garbage to see if they'd rinsed out the condoms before tossing. It just wouldn't have occurred to me to look. My husband has had a vasectomy, so those things were never a problem for us in the first place.

I guess it could be by happenstance, that a woman would put something in the garbage afterwards and see the rinsed condom in the trash bin, but I'm thinking that it wouldn't be all too common for a woman to do that, unless she was wanting to use the sperm for impregnation in the first place.

Thinking about it, I've never seen a condom in a garbage bin where I could tell if it had been rinsed or not. Even if you know the condom wasn't used it is hard to tell the difference between it and one that was. You'd have to be looking at it rather closely to see, and the only reason I can think of for doing that is if it had missed the garbage bin and was on the floor, or if one wanted it for nefarious purposes.

I'm in a 7 year relationship with a woman who notices EVERYTHING, every single time, and I can't put anything past her, ever, no matter how big or small, ever. Which can be annoying, if I weren't so impressed with it.

She would notice for sure, and I'd have to have a conversation about it. I highly doubt it would be grounds for termination, or even an argument, but she WOULD notice, and WOULD say something.

Fortunately for me she's been fixed, by an accredited doctor, I've seen the paperwork, and verified the source, so this ^^^ scenario is a non issue, personally.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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childfreeadvocate
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yurble
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mumofsixbirds
I guess it's just me, but when I was young, single and having protected sex, I never would've thought to look in the garbage to see if they'd rinsed out the condoms before tossing. It just wouldn't have occurred to me to look. My husband has had a vasectomy, so those things were never a problem for us in the first place.

I guess it could be by happenstance, that a woman would put something in the garbage afterwards and see the rinsed condom in the trash bin, but I'm thinking that it wouldn't be all too common for a woman to do that, unless she was wanting to use the sperm for impregnation in the first place.

Thinking about it, I've never seen a condom in a garbage bin where I could tell if it had been rinsed or not. Even if you know the condom wasn't used it is hard to tell the difference between it and one that was. You'd have to be looking at it rather closely to see, and the only reason I can think of for doing that is if it had missed the garbage bin and was on the floor, or if one wanted it for nefarious purposes.

I'm in a 7 year relationship with a woman who notices EVERYTHING, every single time, and I can't put anything past her, ever, no matter how big or small, ever. Which can be annoying, if I weren't so impressed with it.

She would notice for sure, and I'd have to have a conversation about it. I highly doubt it would be grounds for termination, or even an argument, but she WOULD notice, and WOULD say something.

Fortunately for me she's been fixed, by an accredited doctor, I've seen the paperwork, and verified the source, so this ^^^ scenario is a non issue, personally.

Ookie dokie.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 25, 2018
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skyeyes
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childfreeadvocate
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freya

Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. .

Tabasco Sauce ^^^^. Nothing seriously damaging, but she'll get what she deserves if she sticks it up there.

YEOW!

BROUUUUHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

I'd love to see a guy deliberately dose it with tabasco and leave it lying around.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children
and I defy anyone to prove me wrong:

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

If I want to hear the pitter-patter of little feet I'll put shoes on my pets.

Mankind and its needs (wants) are like unto a black hole. It devours all available resources and it never is full: it merely grows larger and demands more.

Definition of 'wealthy': Anyone who makes more/has more than you do.

Someone pointed out that I'm a realist. And all along I thought I was just a pessimist crossed with a cynic.

Entitlement, thy name is mooooooooooooooo

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.
Add to this that, many of those who refuse or are unable to prove they are
citizens, will receive free insurance paid for by those who are.""

I am confused enough already. I do not need outside help.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 27, 2018
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twocents
Quote
skyeyes
Quote
childfreeadvocate
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freya

Men wash out a condom after use in the sink, maybe even spill spermicide, cleaner on it or something like that. .

Tabasco Sauce ^^^^. Nothing seriously damaging, but she'll get what she deserves if she sticks it up there.

YEOW!

BROUUUUHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

I'd love to see a guy deliberately dose it with tabasco and leave it lying around.

I'm rather inclined to agree.

I can picture her running to the police/hospital and saying "I tried to take the sperm from his used condom to get pregnant, but he must have tampered with it because it burns!". Is it assault? Probably, but she'd have to admit she was purposely trying to trap him into having a child he didn't agree to, AFTER he purposely used protection so she wouldn't get pregnant.

This isn't like that asshole who put chili powder on his girlfriend's tampons as a "joke" - tampons are very definitely going somewhere intimate and it's hardly a choice to use them or not if you're menstruating (sanitary towels are humiliating and when I still had periods, they made me feel like I was wearing diapers, given the popularity or tampons I'm not the only woman who feels this way). To me, THAT is a much more credible definition of assault.

But maybe I'm just so desperate to see one of these wanna-breeds get some kind of comeuppance for deceptively bringing a kid into the world that wasn't wanted by the sperm donor, that I would willingly wish pain onto someone.
Re: Guy not allowed to get snipped, gets oopsed instead
October 29, 2018
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lurker-derp


I can picture her running to the police/hospital and saying "I tried to take the sperm from his used condom to get pregnant, but he must have tampered with it because it burns!". Is it assault? Probably, but she'd have to admit she was purposely trying to trap him into having a child he didn't agree to, AFTER he purposely used protection so she wouldn't get pregnant.

This isn't like that asshole who put chili powder on his girlfriend's tampons as a "joke" -

But maybe I'm just so desperate to see one of these wanna-breeds get some kind of comeuppance for deceptively bringing a kid into the world that wasn't wanted by the sperm donor, that I would willingly wish pain onto someone.

In our breeder baby-worshipping society, she'd be the victim, bank on it, and with the law of averages being what it is, this story WILL happen, maybe not specifically with tabasco, but some brand of hot sauce.

And it's not even close to the same thing as the chili powder in the tampons.

I don't wish any sort of long term pain on anyone, but a few hours as physical agony for trying to bring 18 years of child support and emotional and financial misery to someone who doesn't deserve it, is a very, very SMALL price to pay.

Any woman who says she'd rather pay $250,000.00 and deal with a mini me she never wanted in order to avoid a little tabasco down there is either insanely rich, or lying.
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