Are CF Uniquely Poised to Survive the New Depression?

In light of the latest nosedive in our economy, with layoffs, banks going tits-up, and every other asshat getting foreclosed on a house they could not afford in the first place, it occurs to me:

I've just me and a pair of cats to support, and I am graduating law school this spring.

If the shit truly hit the fan, I could live on $24,000. I don't have a $1300/mo mortgage, a $500 car payment, and child daycare expenses.

I'll have finished three (BA, MBA, JD) degrees with slightly over $40,000 in student loan debt. I'll be moving to Arizona to rent space in a friend's house until I get on my feet. Yes, a 1200 mile trip, but no stopping every 200mi for McDonalds breaks and no need to seek out a motel with a pool to shut the little shitmops up.

With a law degree, I think I can find some sort of law clerk job (bankruptcy law comes to mind) until I get past the bar.

No need to feed some kid or clothe them (a bag of cat food costs $40 and lasts a month...)

Damn I am glad to be single and CF.

At least cartoonists did well during the 1930s.:/

I agree, as you may have seen in my "Declaration of Independence" thread. This market downturn has no real effect on me and my upcoming retirement. I have no debts, no kyds, (no pets), and a bundle of dividend-paying investments which have not been significantly affected by the recent downturn. My monthly expenses are about $1,750 a month and I can easily generate at least $21,000 a year in interest and dividends to cover that.

As I stated several times in that thread, being CF is by far the biggest reason I am able to retire at age 45 even with today's tumultuous market.

I wish you luck in your new life in Arizona. Bankruptcy law seems like a growing field, unfortunately.

If I learned ANYTHING from my father it was to NEVER 'put all of your eggs in one basket". That really stuck in my mind, possibly because he said it a great deal, but I think that's the reason that I will survive JUST FINE, regardless of what the market does. My husband thinks the same way, which is a bonus. This actually works in two directions;The multi talents/skills/job experiences we both have and where we place our money. I have funds in different types of accounts and investments in various sources. I even have some cash safely hidden because I have a fear of a bankruns and an unprecedented worldwide online crash of significant magnitude. I don't think any major collapse of our systems would be a very great shock, actually.

We are in the process of becoming as far removed from relying on public utilities as possible. We already have a water well, stream, pump, generator and tank resevoirs so we are'nt dependent on water from a county or city municipality. The next step is for some solar power which we are looking into within the next year or so. We have the trees, land, fireplaces, the wildlife and the garden. etc....so now we just mainly need the solar power. Short of a nuclear disaster of some sort, I anticipate being able to live self contained and completely self sufficient up on my little piece of this mountain within 5 years. I consider anything we have above the minimum that we need to be gravy. I think we have PLENTY of gravy, so there's always room to trim the fat, IF it came down to that. It PISSES ME OFF to see someone on a cell phone as they pay for groceries by swiping a welfare food debit card. These people don't know the meaning of "trimming the fat", and will be GREATLY affected by an economic collapse.

I know so many people who only know how to do one work related thing, so if they lost their job for whatever reason, they couldn't just start up a business or find another job very easily. I also know many people who live on credit cards and beyond their means while we live below ours. I would rather have the cash in my hand than spent on a toy like a boat or fancy car. I feel secure knowing that we both have the skills, education and experience to do several different types of income producing things, if we needed to do so. I realize too that the best laid plans can fail, but it's less likely than just sitting back, doing nothing, and let life run you rather than the other way around. People with a house full of kyds, who can only do one job or in the SAHM case, NO job, have no savings, live beyond their means, etc....... are going to get hit HARD and I doubt they will have any recourse but to move back in with mom and dad.

I would HATE to be those people, but it's their own damned faults. I do however, feel sorry for the over 60 group who only THOUGHT they would live out their golden years playing the doting grandmoo and grandpeepaw. Instead, Jr's coming back home at age 30, with a wife who never worked before, three stair step kyds in tow, and one on the way. To me, that would be a fate worse than death.

Because we are CF, DH was able to pay off the house. There's simply no way we can lose it. Also, both of our vehicles are paid for. So long as we can both keep our state jobs, we'll do fine.

Congratulations, Valkyrie! That is terrific! That is our goal as well.

Kidlesskim, I so admire (and envy!) your almost-off-the-grid self-reliance. That is great.

Yes, the CF will be in a great position not only to survive this downturn but buy a lot of bargain basement stocks and rock-bottom housing. If you have cash in hand to buy a house, you can call the shots at this point and probably through the end of 2009. Some fix-up houses in Detroit are going for a few thousand. In my city, a lot of nice little houses 800-1,000 sq. feet on city lots are going for 39,000-59,000.

Marzipan Wrote:
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>
> No need to feed some kid or clothe them (a bag of
> cat food costs $40 and lasts a month...)


W0W, your cats eat a lot, either that or that's some expensive cat food. I feed mine Hill's Rx c/d, it's $42 for a 20# bag, which lasts us a week and feeds like 25 cats.

Good luck in your new situation!

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I think the CF are in a better position than breeders as we have less expenditures - BUT - a lot of us have pets which are expensive but no where near as expensive as a shit-loaf.

We've got a diabetic cat and one who needs another kind of med twice a day. Because of the diabetic and some urinary tract problems, they need Hills Prescription food, which isn't cheap. Our dogs get the Wellness brand of food, a holistic food which again, is not cheap, but in the long run, will amount to a healthier pet with less vet bills. The cats get Fancy Feast also, which is a bit expensive, but out of all the canned foods, it's got the lowest carbs which is important for the diabetic.

Better not say this too loudly though, or the CF'ers will be getting extra taxes imposed upon us to take up the slack of the breeders. They'll give it some new trendy politically friendly name like the "Sympathy Tax" or some shit, and the fun, interesting definition of, "the ability for the Childfree to make the lives of those with more responsibility a little easier."

I thought the Cf were uniquely poised, but after talking to SIL and BIL and I have changed my mind.
See they are having the baby on taxpayer funds ( medicaid) neither of them have ever paid taxes of any type. He is an illegal and she has never had a job in her life. They also qualified for bond money to buy a home, food stamps, and help with utilities. They have no money saved so they won't lose any retirement funds and the government is handing them more and more help everyday.
I really don't think that they should get help buying a home, when they can't afford to pay for a baby.
Seems the government will bail out and help these types of people survive at the expense of us childfree. My local and state taxes have increased significantly, to help those breeders. So if we can manage to not have our money stolen from us by the government to help the breeders we might be in a better position.

Seems that those who work hard and make wise choices, always have to pay for those who don't.

KFLL, luckily rats are not a difficult lot to feed. I do feed them a mix of grains and fortified lab-blocks, along with supplementing their diets with fresh vegetables and fruit. I eat healthy and as such, so do they. Funny enough, sometimes when I'm caring for elderly ratties (especially ones with tooth problems), I like it when baby food goes on sale. I can buy several cans for a couple of dollars and this lasts me a while.
I got asked one time by the cashier, "Are these mashed carrots your baby's favorite?"
I of course replied: "No, but my rats certainly appreciate them."

I think hubby and I will do ok as long as there is no downsizing at his job. My job is pretty rock-solid - I'm in a position where I have no competition with anyone else and the company depends on me. It's a good place to be, especially in a time like this. Not that he isn't necessary at HIS job....but his company has fired people before and outsourced part of their IT department, of which he is a part. So there's a bit of uncertainty there.

However, we only have one credit card (with only a couple hundred dollars on it yet to pay off), both cars paid off, and we own our home.

But yeah, we'd all better complain how hard our lives are and how much we struggle lest we end up footing more of the bill for breeder irresponsibility.

Ugh, Annie35 - your story made me sick to my stomach. I am so sick of this kind of thing and it's become so very common.

Even though husband owns a construction company, we'll do fine. We've cut out the unnecessaries and can still go for drinks and sushi, and travel a little.

I wonder how the "private school" crowd is handling this.

Rose Red Wrote:
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> Even though husband owns a construction company,
> we'll do fine. We've cut out the unnecessaries
> and can still go for drinks and sushi, and travel
> a little.
>
> I wonder how the "private school" crowd is
> handling this.



I know 4 families who have had to stop sending little darlings to private school and send them to public school.
These same four families have also sold the SUV's, stopped eating out, and the moo's aren't shopping anymore.
They are all pissed off, bored, and it is starting to show in the marriage. I can tell the moo's blame the dads for not making enough money to sustain the lifestyle they have come to so dearly love.

annie35 Wrote:
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> Rose Red Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Even though husband owns a construction
> company,
> > we'll do fine. We've cut out the unnecessaries
> > and can still go for drinks and sushi, and
> travel
> > a little.
> >
> > I wonder how the "private school" crowd is
> > handling this.
>
>
>
> I know 4 families who have had to stop sending
> little darlings to private school and send them to
> public school.
> These same four families have also sold the SUV's,
> stopped eating out, and the moo's aren't shopping
> anymore.
> They are all pissed off, bored, and it is starting
> to show in the marriage. I can tell the moo's
> blame the dads for not making enough money to
> sustain the lifestyle they have come to so dearly
> love.

thank you for my smug moment of the day.

We have always lived well within our means, even way before this economic mess. Our only debt is our mortgage, and even that is quite small compared to most. When we bought our house, we refused to be suckered into the "well, you could actually qualify for THIS much house." We are able to pay cash for most things, including large purchases. If we use our ONE Visa card, we pay the balance off each and every month. We haven't paid a cent in interest on that account in the 8 years we've had it.

Of course, not having brats helps a TON.

I have always been very debt-averse and huge on personal financial responsibility. I panic when it comes to the really big purchases like cars and houses. This is why I have NO SYMPATHY for idiots who knowingly got in over their heads because they had to have the McMansion and are now losing their homes. I don't want to hear about bank "predatory lending practices" because if these morons were RESPONSIBLE, there would be no market for this shit that got us into this huge mess.

I overheard someone at work yesterday say sarcastically "I think I'll just stop paying my mortgage and have someone bail ME out."

Yup, those of us who have been responsible our whole lives now get to bail everyone else out.

the responsible people ALWAYS have to bail out the idiots,

When i bought my home, the mortgage broker wanted me to buy alot more house, he said i was approved for alot more, so why not use it?

He also kept trying to talk me out of my down payment (i had 30,000 down from my last home sale) he tried several times for me to have zero down,

but, i contriol my life, i knew what i could afford and stuck to it, why couldnt the rest of the fucken free world do the same thing?

its NOT that hard, do the math,

nokyds4me Wrote:
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> the responsible people ALWAYS have to bail out the
> idiots,
>
> When i bought my home, the mortgage broker wanted
> me to buy alot more house, he said i was
> approved for alot more, so why not use it?
>
> He also kept trying to talk me out of my down
> payment (i had 30,000 down from my last home sale)
> he tried several times for me to have zero down,
>
> but, i contriol my life, i knew what i could
> afford and stuck to it, why couldnt the rest of
> the fucken free world do the same thing?
>
> its NOT that hard, do the math,


The bank did the same to us. They tried to persuade us to buy a home that cost $150,000 more than we budgeted.
I left that bank and went to another, I am the customer I will tell you what I want and you help me get it, don't try to up sell me.