My inner Disney geek is stunned speechless

I just saw a parent arguing that there's no possible way to discipline a child at Disney so you might as well let them do what they want...except for sacrificing his own vacation by taking the kid out of the park, which he thinks he shouldn't have to do. Talk about actually saying the quiet part out loud..."I'm enjoying myself, so I don't care if my brat is terrorizing everyone around me. I'm getting what I want and that's what counts."

We wouldn't call them breeders if they would just be PARENTS instead....

These kids are going to grow up with no discipline, no life skills and no social skills. They'll be perma-basement dwellers.
And, if for no other reasons than these-parents need to give their kids the skills required to be self-sufficient and to live on their own. That is part of parenting. Most of what is taught is by the parents, not the schools.

Sure, letting the brat run the show might work short-term so the money spent on the vacation isn't thrown down the toilet. But doing that sets a precedent - that the kid can act like a shit anywhere without consequence.

Also, who says you can't discipline a brat at Disney? Spank them, refuse to let them play any games to win toys (do they have those at Disney? I've never been there), no stuff from the gift shop, doesn't get to meet any of the characters, threaten to tell Santa they're being bad and won't get presents (might work, might not), there are options. Packing up and leaving the park for the day can be a last resort, but it should always remain an option if the child is being particularly bratty. When bad behavior is ignored or rewarded, it's a guarantee that it will continue.

The whole "I'm enjoying myself, fuck everyone else" attitude is something breeders do everywhere, not just Disney World/Land. Consider the number of breeders who go out to eat and pretend like they're a childless couple on the town while totally ignoring their kids as they cartwheel across the restaurant, bother other diners and barf on the floor. Or people who bring their loaves to a movie and let it shriek for the entire film because they paid to be there and everyone else can just get fucked.

Sometimes being a parent means needing to leave fun activities early to deal with your goddamn kids. The parents who won't do that because they don't want their good time compromised are just as bratty as their kids.

of course there's the temptation to let the bastard run off .. and let it resolve itself

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

One parent I read about somewhere told her misbehaving kids they were going on a fun trip but they'd miss out if they fought in the car. What the kids didn't know was there was no trip planned, and it was a teaching moment planned by the parent. When the kids started quarreling the parent turned the car around and made them sit in their rooms all day letting them think about the fun they were 'missing out' on.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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Cambion
Also, who says you can't discipline a brat at Disney? Spank them, refuse to let them play any games to win toys (do they have those at Disney? I've never been there), no stuff from the gift shop, doesn't get to meet any of the characters, threaten to tell Santa they're being bad and won't get presents (might work, might not), there are options. Packing up and leaving the park for the day can be a last resort, but it should always remain an option if the child is being particularly bratty. When bad behavior is ignored or rewarded, it's a guarantee that it will continue.

The whole "I'm enjoying myself, fuck everyone else" attitude is something breeders do everywhere, not just Disney World/Land.

ABSOLUTELY agree with you that it happens everywhere. The post I saw just happened to be about Disney. His argument was spanking would get him accused of child abuse (which...probably), but the other options should all be fair game imo. His entire argument against ANY of it was "why should I have to miss out on anything in order to be a parent to the child I chose to have."

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craftyzits
One parent I read about somewhere told her misbehaving kids they were going on a fun trip but they'd miss out if they fought in the car. What the kids didn't know was there was no trip planned, and it was a teaching moment planned by the parent. When the kids started quarreling the parent turned the car around and made them sit in their rooms all day letting them think about the fun they were 'missing out' on.

Not a bad approach when you know for a fact your brats won't behave.

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kittehpeoples

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craftyzits
One parent I read about somewhere told her misbehaving kids they were going on a fun trip but they'd miss out if they fought in the car. What the kids didn't know was there was no trip planned, and it was a teaching moment planned by the parent. When the kids started quarreling the parent turned the car around and made them sit in their rooms all day letting them think about the fun they were 'missing out' on.

Not a bad approach when you know for a fact your brats won't behave.

Wish more parents did this.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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kittehpeoples
ABSOLUTELY agree with you that it happens everywhere. The post I saw just happened to be about Disney. His argument was spanking would get him accused of child abuse (which...probably), but the other options should all be fair game imo. His entire argument against ANY of it was "why should I have to miss out on anything in order to be a parent to the child I chose to have."

People accusing him of abuse shouldn't stop him from disciplining his kids. It seems like anymore, telling a child "no" constitutes abuse. Honestly, what would happen if he spanked his horrid brat in public? Let's say someone called the police on him for child abuse. Would they even show up? Would they do anything when he says he smacked his kid's ass for misbehaving? They'd probably laugh if someone called them and said a guy hit his kid. Would security even do anything? Like I'm sure some other park guests will look at him sideways for whacking his kid on the ass, but I doubt anyone would do anything about it aside from maybe verbal harassment.

A good alternative to spanking is pinching. When the kid acts like a little bastard, give him a hard pinch on the arm. It's much more subtle than a full-on hand against the ass, but it'll still hurt enough to discourage whatever bullshit the brat is doing. Repeat until the behavior stops.

Parents need to learn that having a child means you DO have to miss out on a lot of things. Whether it's being unable to find a sitter or having to leave a wedding/dinner/party/etc. early because their kid won't stop being a shit, the freedom to enjoy yourself when going out is an adulthood perk you lose when you breed. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. Plenty of breeders feel that when they are in a public place full of tons of other people, their responsibilites as parents are suspended and they can have fun while everyone else minds their kids for them.

Along with the "I'm going to enjoy myself no matter what, fuck everyone else" attitude is the "if I have to suffer my child's behavior, so does everyone else" attitude. Because they seem to think the rest of the world somehow had a say in them reproducing, and so we all deserve to deal with their ill-behaved sprogs. Oh, but we can't discipline or tell the offending brats off. We just have to shut up and deal with it, and if anyone expresses annoyance with this shit, parents will spew bingoes like a sprinkler: you're a child hater, you were a child once too, s/he's just a child and doesn't know better, you must not have kids so you don't know what it's like, you'll understand when you have kids, and so on.

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Cambion
Parents need to learn that having a child means you DO have to miss out on a lot of things. Whether it's being unable to find a sitter or having to leave a wedding/dinner/party/etc. early because their kid won't stop being a shit, the freedom to enjoy yourself when going out is an adulthood perk you lose when you breed. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. Plenty of breeders feel that when they are in a public place full of tons of other people, their responsibilites as parents are suspended and they can have fun while everyone else minds their kids for them.

Along with the "I'm going to enjoy myself no matter what, fuck everyone else" attitude is the "if I have to suffer my child's behavior, so does everyone else" attitude. Because they seem to think the rest of the world somehow had a say in them reproducing, and so we all deserve to deal with their ill-behaved sprogs. Oh, but we can't discipline or tell the offending brats off. We just have to shut up and deal with it, and if anyone expresses annoyance with this shit, parents will spew bingoes like a sprinkler: you're a child hater, you were a child once too, s/he's just a child and doesn't know better, you must not have kids so you don't know what it's like, you'll understand when you have kids, and so on.

YES. So much breeder bullshit stems from this misguided idea that their lives shouldn't have to change at all now that they have decided to raise other human beings. That is not how it should work. Brat is misbehaving in public and you don't want to hit your child for whatever reason? Then you need to find a way to deal with it, and if that means leaving wherever you are, then that's what you do. His excuse that "there's nothing I can threaten them with" is pathetic. I'm guessing his kids are absolute terrors in restaurants, too, with him using the exact same excuse, when the solution is you take their misbehaving asses home if that's the only discipline you think is open to you.

I also think you're right that parents thrive on shared misery. They can't handle the choices they made, so the rest of the world needs to deal with it, too.

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People accusing him of abuse shouldn't stop him from disciplining his kids. It seems like anymore, telling a child "no" constitutes abuse. Honestly, what would happen if he spanked his horrid brat in public? Let's say someone called the police on him for child abuse. Would they even show up? Would they do anything when he says he smacked his kid's ass for misbehaving? They'd probably laugh if someone called them and said a guy hit his kid. Would security even do anything? Like I'm sure some other park guests will look at him sideways for whacking his kid on the ass, but I doubt anyone would do anything about it aside from maybe verbal harassment.

I dunno. I think this is a somewhat risky move because so many people have cell phones now. Let's say you whack your kid on the butt and someone takes a video of it. Disney is so woke now that if someone like this happened at Disney, I could see Disney making an example out of the offender to make it seem as if Disney Cares about The Children^TM, as opposed to just caring about extracting money from the parunts.

In a similar vein, I once had an argument with someone at work about eating produce at the grocery store. I had observed someone eating cherries at the grocery store when they didn't buy them. Just standing there eating them. I said, it's basically shoplifting. My co-worker said something lame like, well, before I buy something, I want to know how it tastes, and saw nothing wrong with sampling. (Found the thief!)

You probably won't get in trouble, but you never know when a store is fed up and decides to make an example of you.  

But more to the point, most of the time an effective parent won't need to spank his/her child in public because they are enforcing consequences at home and all it takes is the Death Glare, or the "wait until we get home" for the kid to snap back into line. (And yeah, maybe they do need to remove the kid a time or two to let the kid know he/she means business.)

You know the parents who are mouthing these platitudes are not discipling their kids. Parunts are always whining about the mean childfree and mean people who don't understand^TM how haaaaaard it is to raise brats. Look, I understand it's a shitty job, but so many in the parent population don't even try to discipline their brats, and it shows.

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bell_flower
But more to the point, most of the time an effective parent won't need to spank his/her child in public because they are enforcing consequences at home and all it takes is the Death Glare, or the "wait until we get home" for the kid to snap back into line. (And yeah, maybe they do need to remove the kid a time or two to let the kid know he/she means business.)

You know the parents who are mouthing these platitudes are not discipling their kids. Parunts are always whining about the mean childfree and mean people who don't understandTM how haaaaaard it is to raise brats. Look, I understand it's a shitty job, but so many in the parent population don't even try to discipline their brats, and it shows.

That's true too, but the issue is a lot of ill-behaved kids don't suffer consequences at home. If proper parenting exists in a child's life, then yes, sometimes all it takes for a kid to shape their ass up in public is to get a glare, hear their parents call them by their full name, or start counting to three. But between widespread permissive/gentle parenting and every damn child allegedly having autism, I think parents are too afraid or lazy to use actual discipline. The kid is used to running the show at home, so when the useless parents try to wrangle them during a public meltdown, they can't because the child has no reason to stop.

And yes, I agree with the second part of what you said too. Parents moan about how hard it is to raise kids, but I think a good chunk of that difficulty stems from them not enforcing boundaries, punishments and/or consequences when their kids misbehave. I know getting on your kid's ass 24/7 sucks and is exhausting, but it will ideally pay off when the kid gets older and understands there are some things they can do and some things they can't do because that's how life works. Plus it's going to be a LOOOOOOOT harder to deal with a hormonal asshole of a teenager who has been gently disciplined their whole life compared to dealing with a three-year-old because there is still time to fix the younger kid. A teenager will have far more ingrained behaviors.

If a parent refuses to spank, take away privlieges or verbally reprimand a child during a public tantrum, then removing them from the situation (or refusing to go to a desired destination) is the best option. Yes it might ruin the parents' day, but that's a sacrifice they signed up to make as needed when they went bareback.