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Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article

Posted by Cambion 
Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 17, 2024
I'm all for equality in general, regardless of size, but I think some obese patients don't get that when doctors refuse to perform a procedure on them due to their weight, they're not just being mean. They are concerned about the risks and complications that will accompany the procedure simply because the patient is fat. Not only on the patient's behalf, but on the doctor's behalf. If an obese patient screeches to have something done and the doctor agrees to it and the procedure goes south, the patient will sue, claiming the doctor should have warned them about the risks associated with obesity and done more to discourage them.

However, breeding is not, nor has it ever been, medically necessary. Fat people get denied essential medical treatments all the time because their weight poses too much of a risk, especially in regard to surgery. It's certainly not impossible to breed and be obese, but pignasty is very hard on the body when the woman is a healthy weight. It's much, much harder on a body that is already being stressed by loads of extra weight. I can see why a decent doctor may not want a patient to throw money down the toilet for IVF when there's a good chance it will fail on the basis of their weight alone. Not to mention the risk of pregnancy complications increases with obesity, including delivery issues. I can only imagine how much harder it is to perform a C-section (especially an emergency one) when there's 70+ extra pounds of fat to dig through just to reach the uterus.

I'm also guessing these women are not told that if they lose even a little weight, that alone can potentially improve their chances of conceiving naturally and/or becoming eligible for fertility treatment? I can't speak for other hospitals, but the one I go to will not suggest weight loss to obese patients for any health issue unless they specifically inquire about it. Like my doctor never told me weight loss would cure my pre-hypertension - she just wanted to put me on pills. I lost 20 pounds and my blood pressure went down to normal range.

This article makes it sound like doctors are just picking on the poor fatties. Though if you think about it, an unscrupulous doctor could make bank off these obese suckers. Obesity can increase not only the risk of infertility, but of miscarriage and stillbirth. So when a size 30 wannabreeder rolls in wanting help getting pregnant, she will probably come back and try again in the very likely event the first attempt fails. Wannabreeders are desperate too and even if they're flat fucking broke, they will find ways to scrounge up the thousands of dollars to do IVF again and again.

Also, I have never once even heard of clinics refusing to do fertility treatments on obese patients. Is this a common thing? My buddy's sister-in-law got herself up the duff last year via IVF and she's easily 350 pounds.

Plus, there is always a good chance that the patient's bad habits that got them so big in the first place will trickle down to their child, resulting in a fat child. I recall a story from the nursing sub-Reddit (I think) about a very fat woman who had just given birth and the baby was born with diabetes (or some other blood sugar-related condition) from Moo's terrible eating habits throughout her pregnancy. Both were still in the hospital and Moo then proceeded to fill the newborn's bottle with strawberry and chocolate milk mixed together, then used a safety pin to make the hole in the nipple huge so the kid could suck it all down faster. It was not the first time she had done it and the kid absolutely blasted through the milk like his life depended on it. Then I think the Duh attempted to assault the nurse for taking the kid away from the Moo. If someone can't or won't take care of their own health, they sure as hell can't take care of their child's.

I don't want to act like large people are less deserving of the same things slim people have access to, but I also don't think it's discrimination to deny someone an elective medical procedure on the basis that their weight will make it difficult or even dangerous. I'd wager that a fertility specialist would also send an anorexic patient packing for the same reason: their weight would make pregnancy too risky.



https://www.salon.com/2024/01/07/restricting-obese-women-from-ivf-is-discriminatory_partner/



Quote

In the U.S., nearly 100,000 babies were born through assisted reproductive technology, such as in vitro fertilization, in 2021, and as people postpone parenthood to older ages, such technologies are growing in demand.

IVF has the potential to realize the dreams of many would-be parents, but thousands of women of reproductive age in the U.S. may face barriers to accessing treatment — sometimes, even before setting foot in a fertility clinic.

These women all have something in common: They have a body mass index that categorizes them as obese or severely obese. BMI is calculated via a formula that takes height and weight into account, with BMIs between 18.5 and 25 considered to be a “healthy weight.” Most clinics in the U.S. exclude women with a high BMI from accessing IVF because of concerns that the procedure may be too medically risky, and that IVF treatment will be less effective in higher weight individuals. The cut-offs are not consistent across clinics but broadly can be between 35 and 45. And such guidelines are not unique to the U.S.: Around the world, BMI restrictions limit women’s access to IVF treatment.

Despite the widespread exclusion, critics have argued that these restrictions are not medically or ethically justified.

First, we must acknowledge that IVF can be challenging for everyone, and less than half of embryo transfers result in a live birth — a success rate that lowers dramatically with age. Yes, IVF success is lower for higher weight women, but it doesn’t have a substantially different success rate. Analysis of a quarter million IVF cycles in North America found that live birth rates in women categorized as normal weight (BMI between 18.5 and 25) were 31.4 percent, compared with live birth rates of 26.3 percent for women classified with class 2 obesity (BMI between 35 and 40).

Furthermore, although research has shown a slightly higher risk of minor complications during IVF egg-retrieval, serious complications were uncommon in women with a high BMI, according to one 2019 study. (So they had to reach back five years for one single study to back up their claims, while ignoring the many many more studies proving obesity is correlated with a higher risk of pregnancy complications?)

Whether elevated risks justify outright denial of treatment is a pertinent question. Philosophers and ethicists have urged us to think about it another way: Pregnancy is a stressful, risky, and taxing bodily process for women of all weights. There is always the possibility that things could go wrong, and denying the opportunity for pregnancy based on an imprecise proxy for health is simply unfair because it systematically removes the reproductive choices of an entire group of people. (Yes, but a body that is already under the stress of obesity is going to have an even harder time with the stressful state of pregnancy.)

A multitude of social, structural, and medical factors demonstrate that BMI limits are discriminatory. In a 2022 article, obstetrician-gynecologist Breonna Slocum and colleagues discuss how women from racially and socially marginalized communities are more likely to meet the criteria for obesity and by default be excluded from IVF. BMI is now being criticized as an inappropriate measure for people of color as it was developed using data primarily collected from previous generations of non-Hispanic White populations.

BMI restrictions also do not often consider the impact of health conditions affecting weight such as polycystic ovary syndrome, or PCOS. Women with PCOS are likely to struggle with both fertility and losing weight. And we should question why systems regulate women’s bodies so much without much thought for the male partner or sperm donor. When researching IVF clinic policies, I noticed a striking absence of restrictions regarding male characteristics such as weight, age, and lifestyle, even though IVF outcomes are negatively influenced by sperm DNA damage.

In reality, women try desperately to lose weight in order to qualify for treatment. And if women can improve their health through weight loss, shouldn’t they at least try? Weight loss before fertility treatment may not be helpful or even possible for most women. Most IVF clinics also have age limits, and egg reserves that get depleted over time mean weight loss could simply take too long to be worth it. (Gee it's a shame there's not a place with thousands of unwanted children who need homes where desperate wanna-breeders could find a new family member for roughly the same cost as a few rounds of IVF....)

A recent review of clinical controlled trials found that weight loss achieved through structured dieting and exercise programs prior to IVF did not appear to improve live birth rates. The authors conclude that it is difficult to even assess these interventions as many people regain weight quickly. This “yo-yo dieting” stresses the cardiometabolic system and can increase the risk for diabetes, leading to worse health in the long term. (Structured dieting and exercise programs is not the same thing as yo-yo dieting. If the person sticks to their weight loss regimen, there will be no yo-yo effect.)

Quick-fix weight-loss medications also need to be carefully investigated before being offered as an option to women. Richard Legro, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Penn State College of Medicine, led a randomized trial on lifestyle interventions before IVF. In an interview, he told me that new weight-loss drugs such as retatrutide have potential to help women lose weight, but these medications can be more expensive than fertility treatment itself, and companies are cautious about potential risks to the developing fetus.

Why, despite the lack of medical evidence, do BMI limits on IVF persist, and why are clinics so reluctant to allow women in larger bodies to access IVF?

Health care decision-making is as much a messy social practice as it is a cold cost-benefit analysis. Research on health care rationing has found that emotional intuition can influence whether a patient receives treatment or not. Practitioner and policymaker decision-making can be based on irrational judgments as much as objective evidence because we all hold underlying morals, values, and feelings about what is right.

There is also tension between those who view obesity as a medical problem and others who understand “fatness” to be a socially constructed identity. While there is a dominant narrative in medicine that obesity is a lifestyle disease, critics argue that our ideas of health are shaped not only by medical evidence but also by our cultural preference for thinness. Western societies tend to hold the view that obesity is an unhealthy personal choice and a moral failing. As a result, negative attitudes and beliefs about body size can affect health care decision-making.

Experimental studies on weight prejudice have found that powerful negative feelings for people in larger bodies can affect their treatment in everyday life, and research has shown that weight bias persists in medical settings. These so-called moral emotions may shape how we interpret the evidence in front of us. We need to question whether it is fair to make people jump through hoops of social approval just to access the same fertility care as everyone else.

Policies do not explicitly acknowledge the cultural discourses shaping our views. And as BMI restrictions differ by geographical area and clinic — even within the same country — there is a blurry, subjective line between those deemed too outside the norm and those who are just acceptably thin enough to receive treatment.

The women seeking fertility care who fall victim to these arbitrary boundaries are being silenced by systems that do not consider a patient’s autonomy, their ability to lose weight healthily, or their personal risk profile. This needs to change. In 2021, the American Society for Reproductive Medicine Practice Committee recommended that a process of shared decision-making should guide larger patients’ access to IVF treatment. Currently, clinics give too much weight to shaky evidence and snap one-sided judgments.
Re: Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 18, 2024
ever watch my 600 lb life?? not all of those asshats have kids but the abuse these kids suffer because their fatty parent(s) are incapable of helping themselves???

as general rule I despise arrogant mouthy kids... but there was one kid on that series,. his name was Nikko... and for the one time in my life I was rooting him on as he tormented his narcissistic fatty mootard

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
Re: Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 19, 2024
I guess this was only a matter of time.

I am willing to entertain that some people can be heavier than the weight charts decree with not so much adverse effects. But this is something that is done across the board for medical procedures. I know someone who is not very overweight, but her COLON CANCER surgery was delayed because her A1C was 11. She needed to get that under control first. She did, and everything turned out okay thankfully.

IVF is not a necessary medical procedure but providers are within their rights to decline certain people due to risk. And did you check out what the article read about the limits?

Quote

Most clinics in the U.S. exclude women with a high BMI from accessing IVF because of concerns that the procedure may be too medically risky, and that IVF treatment will be less effective in higher weight individuals. The cut-offs are not consistent across clinics but broadly can be between 35 and 45.

Right now my BMI is 26 and some change. I am very insulin resistant and I'm genetically fucked in those terms. (Strong diabetic family history.)

Due to my insulin resistance, I need to be on diabetic medicine to lose weight. My lovely insurance company stopped paying for it because they raised the A1C cutoff range. To qualify, one's A1C now has to be 6.5 and mine is 6.3. So I'm going to have to pay out of pocket for compounded meds. I have an appt. later this month.

My point being, I am paying out of pocket for my meds that I need for my health, so pardon me if I have zero sympathy for these cows whining about "fat discrimination" when they are doing an optional medical procedure.

And the IVF guidelines are ridiculously generous anyway. I used a BMI calculator and I calculated how much I would need to weigh to make a BMI of 35. I would need to weigh 65 pounds more than I do now and I would be miserable.

Carrying, birthing and raising a child are physically demanding. It would be horrible to do with a BMI of 35 and up.

Plus, there is so much information that indicates being fat and being T2D is genetic. Do these fatties really want to pass this on to their kids? Rhetorical question I know.....they want to pass that on and worse things because they feel entitled.

Cue the whining about how it's "elitist" to suggest people with health problems may not want to breed.

edited to correct BMI info.
Re: Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 19, 2024
These stupid cows need to be locked up for child abuse. I don't give a fuck if the brat isn't conceived yet.

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Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 19, 2024
Quote

I know someone who is not very overweight, but her COLON CANCER surgery was delayed because her A1C was 11. She needed to get that under control first. She did, and everything turned out okay thankfully.

Off topic but what's A1C got to do with colon cancer? It's a blood sugar test, I think? I'm glad your friend was able to get the care she needed, but why the fuck would cancer surgery be delayed over blood glucose? I'm no medical professional, but I'd like to think having one's cancer removed is a little more important than blood sugar. I didn't think that had any impact on surgery eligibility.



I also noticed the BMI refusal range. Mine is 39 I think (used to be 48 - it's a work in progress), but apparently I was not fat enough to have my insurance cover visits to my hospital's weight loss center! I was hoping to get professional guidance on why I wasn't losing weight anymore, but I was not obese enough. All I was able to do was see a nutritionist who told me to eat more. I wasn't even eligible for weight loss surgery because I had no comorbidities related to my weight (not that I wanted it, but I was told I was ineligible because my fat didn't make me sick yet). I have heard plenty about fat discrimination, but how in the fuck am I a size 16 and getting skinny discriminated? Man you must have to be faaaaaaaat to have insurance cover weight loss care.

I'm fortunate enough that I am metabolically healthy in spite of my gigantic ass - as in no diabetes, hypertension, fatty liver, insulin resistance, no issues caused by obesity. I know being fat in itself means I am unhealthy by default, but I have no complications (yet) from my weight.

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Plus, there is so much information that indicates being fat and being T2D is genetic. Do these fatties really want to pass this on to their kids? Rhetorical question I know.....they want to pass that on and worse things because they feel entitled.

There is one thing I'm sure is universal across the board for breeders and wanna-breeders regardless of weight, and that is a complete lack of fucks to give about what they could potentially pass on to their children as far as inherited conditions or genetic mutations. All they care about is getting their own personal Xerox copy to flaunt to everyone. Oh but when they child develops the same illnesses the parents have, they'll piss and moan about all the additional care the child needs like they didn't see it coming.

Can you imagine trying to wrangle a very large woman in labor in the ER? Depending on just how big she is, there might have to be special bariatric equipment wheeled in to support her. Additional staff may need to be called in to hold back various limbs and rolls so the doctor can have proper access to deliver the child. If the hospital has no bariatric equipment, it means shipping Moo off to a hospital that does have adequate facilities. That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

It's not that people with health issues - including obesity - don't deserve kids. It's that their kids don't deserve to be born with the same illnesses as their parents just because Mommy and Daddy wanted a roll in the hay.
Re: Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 20, 2024
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Off topic but what's A1C got to do with colon cancer?

It meant she was diabetic. I think it can interfere with healing and make you more prone to infection. It's pretty common in my area and I know people are being turned down for other procedures like knee replacement until they get their A1C under control and until they get under a specific BMI.

The knee seems like a circle jerk: can't exercise with a bad knee, can't get it fixed until you lose weight.
Re: Denying obese women IVF is discriminatory, says article
January 20, 2024
They're just ass covering, many doctors see patients only as dollar signs.

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Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
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