mentioning CF status in a job interview

I just got offered an interview for a job I really, really want.

The position will require a fair amount of travel. I would love to volunteer the information that I don't have children, as I think the fact that I am not tied to being home every night could be very appealing to my prospective employer. In fact, I'd probably want to throw in that I have no intention of ever having kids, just so that they don't jump to the conclusion that I'm probably planning on breeding soon (I'm a women nearing the end of her reproductive years).

BUT, I'm wondering if this could backfire. Given the organization in question, I'm suspecting that the people there are progressive enough to be open-minded about someone choosing not to have kids. But I could be wrong... and this is not exactly the kind of occasion where I want to screw things up for myself. Did I mention, I really want this job?

Does anyone have any advice? Would it be a better idea to try to market my childfreedom, or not mention it (for fear of alienating a possible BNP interviewer)?

Wow, sounds great -- !

Good point though, about whether or not to bring up the fact you're CF.

Personally, when I interview people, I don't like to hear any reference at all to ideological beliefs, membership of fringe/radical organisations, or anything that makes them seem like outsiders. Bringing up something like that at interview stage indicates that the candidate is possibly a bit hysterical about their own personal views. Remember that employers want an easy atmosphere -- they want harmony, not conflict, between their staff. So saying anything that could be a source of future staff arguments now -- and that includes the beliefs surrounding the rightness/wrongness of CF, CF lifestyles, breeders, fambly-centric lifestyles, etc -- will count against you.

I love it when candidates tell me they have unusual hobbies like skydiving or showing prize-winning Irish Setters. But lots of candidates try to say they do things for certain charities... to be frank they think the word 'charity' is a magic word that makes everyone believe they are saints, but it doesn't always work in their favour as far as I'm concerned. If the charities they mention are all kiddie-centric stuff, or anti-choice stuff, or anything too political, radical, foolish or just plain wrong in my view, then I'm very unlikely to take the interview any further. I also object to this new thing where a person joins one of those programmes and raises 'charity funds' so they can travel longhaul to an exotic part of the globe and 'do good deeds' like help build a school in the middle of Namibia or preserve wildlife in Chile, etc -- these are nothing more than 6-month long freebee holidays with a bit of volunteering in between smoking joints and shagging the other freebee holidayers who are also pretending they're doing this for 'charidee'. I've had hundreds of interviewees gleefully chopsing-on about how they 'did charidee' in Botswana, then Tanzania, then India, then Thailand -- and I'm nodding and smiling and mentally scratching their name off my list with a big fat red marker because they are con artists. The trips were at someone else's expense and they were all about collecting an impressive photograph album, NOT about the people/animals they were pretending to 'help'.

I digress!

What would really impress the interviewer would be your overt enthusiasm to travel anytime, anywhere. Saying firmly and happily that you have 100 percent availability -- even if there are abrupt changes to travel plans, even if sudden big presentations emerge or longstanding plans to attend something are cancelled at the last moment -- you 'have the freedom and flexibility to respond immediately without any problems whatsoever'. That makes it crystal clear what your current situation is. It'd be a good idea to signal that this will be your same situation in future, too -- if you phrase your responses in such a way that it's clear your availability is 100 percent now and forever.

Good luck!

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Amethyst, thanks a ton for your detailed response. You make some really good points, and given that you've been on the other side of the table for so many interviews, your opinion carries some serious weight.

I definitely never would have actually used the word "childfree" to describe myself, since I think the term could be inflammatory, but you've convinced me that it's probably best not even to offer that I have no children. I'll do my best to emphasize how flexible I am with regard to travel, but resist mentioning that I'm not a parent.

(PS I agree with you about the interpretation of those trips to exotic locations for doing charity work, tee hee!)

oddly enough, in a massively childed world, I think in some cases it does help- in addition to travel they know you won't have any surprises- soccer games, etc.

I agree with Amethyst in not coming right out and saying you're childfree, just that you are willing and enthusiastic about the position, and not at all bothered by traveling on very short notice.

Any good interviewer will be able to read between the lines and see that you will take the responsibilities of the job seriously, and not be a problematic whiner and excuse maker.

Best of luck--be sure to let us know if you are extended an offer.

I think Amethyst's plan is the right one, as well. Before I found a teaching job I worked at a state park as a receptionist in one of the buildings. My boss's office was near my desk and I could often hear him talking on the phone and discussing things with othe employees. I remember once he was discussing the hiring of a manager for one of the other buildings with someone on the phone. The choice must have been between a CF person and a famblee man. He was telling the person on the phone that even though the other person had more experience, the guy with the famblee should be hired because he had kids to feed. After that, I've always thought keeping my status quiet was for the best.

BratBgone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember once he
> was discussing the hiring of a manager for one of
> the other buildings with someone on the phone. The
> choice must have been between a CF person and a
> famblee man. He was telling the person on the
> phone that even though the other person had more
> experience, the guy with the famblee should be
> hired because he had kids to feed. After that,
> I've always thought keeping my status quiet was
> for the best.

BratBgone, difference between 2 things: Family man or CF is,

Family man - You could hire him because he have to feed his kids, but sometimes he might have to take some time off work because of kids issue.

CF - That is more beneficial, this person might like always work longer to get the job done and less worrys about personal life. Even so CF can be more committed to a job.

But again this reminds me of this topic:
http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,34463,page=1

If you are on the interview panel interviewing the person. This is up to you to decide who gets appointed.

You're right, Gigabyte, but this man was a big old breeder himself and couldn't see the advantages of hiring the CF person.

"Before I found a teaching job I worked at a state park as a receptionist in one of the buildings. My boss's office was near my desk and I could often hear him talking on the phone and discussing things with othe employees. I remember once he was discussing the hiring of a manager for one of the other buildings with someone on the phone. The choice must have been between a CF person and a famblee man. He was telling the person on the phone that even though the other person had more experience, the guy with the famblee should be hired because he had kids to feed."

Shit like that really pisses me the Hell off. I can't stand it when employers act like "fambilee men" will work harder because they have keedz. I've found it's often the opposite, and if this yutz was talking about his familee status in his interview and your boss hired him because of it, I hope he got burned big-time and Dud skipped out at every opportunity.

Your ex-boss was a dumbass. You should always hire the best person for the job. The boss should be in it for the money, not to run a charity organization. (It's one thing to hire someone who has less experience but a better attitude and who is train-able---it's quite another thing to hire someone based on whether his/her gonads worked.)

If anything, when I was single, I was MORE likely to work harder because I didn't have a spouse and another income, plus I realize the brutal truth---there is little safety net for single people in this world. Crank out an illegitimate brat or two, and Social Services is lining up to provide you with free housing, WIC, food stamps and the like. It's so wrong.

Amethyst gives some very good advice on this matter and I agree. I'd also like to add some of my own opinion and experience(s) to the mix. REGARDLESS of what you may think or how the interviewer projects himself, resist the urge to release ANY personal information because it has a way of coming back to bite you on the ass, even IF you get the job. For instance, who would have thought that EVERYBODY wouldn't think that volunteering with a Christian organization to help build schools in the terd world wouldn't be respected and possibly idolized by all? I am another one who not only would that not impress me, I would draw the same conclusions as Amethyst.

I think of an interviewee like I would if I was making suggestions to someone who was trying to sell their house. That is:Remove as much of your personality from the home as possible. While collectors might be impressed with your expensive Oriental rugs and pottery, a potential buyer may have bad memories of a visit to Asia or see your collection as dust catchers and wonder if you have any dust mites underneath. While Fido and Fluffy may be close to your heart, a potential buyer may be completely grossed out by animals living in the home and turned off by it. The same goes for unnecessary knic knacks set about, walls painted red, clunky or extreme furniture and accessories, etc.....The best and fastest way to sell a house, and yourself, is make it look as neutral and inviting to as many potential buyers as possible. People like to view an interviewee, as well as a potential house, as a blank canvas which they can make into their own. Make yourself appear neutral, uncluttered, and unbiased. Answer a question WITH a question, be as vague as possible with answers to questions which are designed for you to reveal prejudices or strong opinions. Concentrate more on the job in question, rather than yourself. PLEASE save all of your "suggestions" about how to change things to yourself, until AFTER you get the job. Many make the mistake of soliciting unwanted advice on how to run the business where they are applying and are marked off the list before the interview even gets underway.

Stay COMPLETELY away from ANYTHING regarding religion, politics, race, sex (and orientation) etc..........If your interviewer is a black woman, for instance, don't automatically assume that she "..had it rough coming up during the times of segregation and having to deal with whitey etc........"She may be the boss' daughter, lived the life of a princess, and her daddy might be a "whitey" and she may be SICK of being stereotyped. Never assume anything. Don't appear so gung-ho or over zealous that the boss thinks that you are in competition for his/her position, even if that's the case. I have found that some well placed and thoughtful questions about the company will get the interviewer talking and even though you may have actually said very little, they will end the interview feeling you were just wonderful!

People, especially interviewers, like to talk about themselves, their accomplishments, and their company. Be the ONE interviewee that day who didn't drone on and on and on and on about himself and you may be considered the best for the job and they will have no real idea why they picked you over the others. Also, for God's sake dress conservatively, cover up tattoos, leave the nose ring out, skip the heavy eye liner and blue sparkly eye shadow, the 6 inch spiked heels and heavy perfumes. There will always be time for you to show your individuality after you get the job, are aware of what THEY consider "appropriate" dress, and they get to know you and your abilities. I have had people drop in for an interview on their way home from working out at the gym in exercise clothing, sweaty,and their hair slicked back in a pony tail. SO not cool. I have also had them come in wearing shorts and tank tops like they were on vacation, and dressed like they were on their way to a Salsa dance competition. I have ALSO had women bring baybees and toddlers with them on interviews which is unforgiveable.

In direct answer to your question, do NOT mention CF status or any other thing of a controversial or personal nature. If your interviewer is a closet fundie, you just SO didn't get the job.

I agree with what has been said here. The only thing you want to be careful of is that you do not set yourself up to be a "pushover". Make it clear you are very able and willing to travel but just leave it at that. *Why* are able to be that way isn't really relevant.

I think the CF status thing is kind of a wild card. Let's face it... advantages of having a CF employee may include that individual being able/more willing to work longer hours, odd hours, and ability to travel on shorter notice or for longer periods. In addition, if the company offers insurance for dependents, it's cheaper to hire a CF. However, I could also see an employer considering it a disadvantage to the firm in that a CF is less tethered (to a family) and therefore more likely to leave the employment situ for whatever reason. If I'm CF and I am supporting only myself, and not a bunch of keedz, then if I perceive I'm being mistreated at work, it's a little bit easier for me to jump ship and look for a better situation. I'm not quite as saddled down with expenses, so I'm not as likely to put up with a lot of bullshit at work. And also keep in mind the fact that a lot of employers are probably also famblee people. They may look with suspicion at someone who has chosen not to be a parent (after all, "something must be wrong with them", right?) And then of course, as has already been mentioned, employers may just feel that the childed are more deserving of employment because they need the money more.

These are all the things that had been crossing my mind as I contemplated whether or not to volunteer that I had no children. Given everything, I'm more and more convinced it's best to keep hush (as much as it kills me!)

Reply Quote

kidlesskim, thanks for those additional tips from someone who (it sounds like) had seen it all. I have done a limited amount of interviewing job candidates myself, and everything you say sounds right on target from my own meager experience in that realm. If you think about it, it's really a shame that we have to conceal who we really are when on the job market. But I guess that's just the way it is, and if you don't play along, you lose. At this point, I'm just grateful I made it past the first, and tallest, hurdle: that of being offered an interview.

All good stuff Kym, and yes not to forget your point that it's important to dress and look *exactly* the part when you're interviewed.

When I interview designers, I want to see "Mister Clerkenwell 2008" walk in (little London joke there, heh heh) -- trendy specs, carefully-mussed-up hairdo, an expensive tailored shirt made to look quite worn, no tie, skinny jeans, and shoes that I haven't seen a thousand times before. When I interview communications strategy executives, I want to see 'agency chic' -- sharp trouser suit, tasteful accessories with just a nod to what's 'in' at the moment. If I were to interview a waitress, I'd want to see her in nice trousers and blouse, hair tied back (as it would be if she were at work) with nice modest hairclips, small tasteful 'button' earrings, very little makeup, and no more than one ring on each hand. Perfect.

I don't care whether or not interviewees feel their mode of dress is "them", bullshit to that, it's not all about them. I want staff looking credible. I want them looking like they actually spent a moment thinking about what the job itself would require from them.

Harsh but fair I hope!!

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

But oh my god -- that phrase -- it's like fingernails scraping slowly and loudly along the blackboard:

"Children to feed! Children to feed! He has chiiiildren to feeeeeeed!"

*puke*

I get an image in my head of horrible, tearful red-faced brats, eyes scrunched up and nasty wet little mouths open, screaming and crying. And it just makes me angry.

When the fuck was the last time ANYONE went hungry in your country or mine? Oh and I'm not counting the mentally-disturbed. No, how realistic is that shit-yer-pants-panicky phrase "children to feeeed!" Bah.

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

I have heard that a good way for a single person to establish that they don't have kids in a more-or-less neutral way is to mention, when you get to salary/benefits discussion, that you only would require a health package for an individual.

I'm 27 and have been job-hunting for a while, and I'm afraid that my age will cause potential employers to suspect that I might be eager to sail off on maternity leave, only to jump ship entirely when the leave is over.

Thanks for this post, Wallflower. If anyone has any other ideas along these lines, I would love to hear them!

I forgot to mention a few, possibly more. If you are above average attractive then dress down and don't accentuate your looks. This goes double if you have a big bust. I would suggest a minimizer (Playtex sells these) or sports bra and a tailored shirt. If you appear "busty" and even wear a "normal" v-neck shirt or form fitting wear regardless of how nice or expensive that shows anything which hints at cleavage, the women will think you're slutty and the men will see (or hear) nothing else about you.

I do not know about other states, but in California you cannot ask about childbearing or marriage status in an interview. There are many oblique ways to discern this information, like asking about greatest accomplishments or hobbies. You can always count on a breeder to start the verbal diarrhea about Snotley's this and Shitford's that. You will also hear about all of the other brat-related crap once a breeder starts amplifying their answers. If the candidate brings it up himself/herself, you cannot ask any direct questions but they will almost always volunteer information that is mostly irrelevant or immaterial.

I would be very careful about bringing up your childfree status until you get to know people on the job. If you are still within your probationary period and are not unionized, you can be let go for any reason with an "at-will" employer. Once you do get to know people, then perhaps it might be okay. The problem is that the breeders will automatically bring up every stupid bingo on the planet or find a reason to resent you. Please be careful.

seconding others, I think Amethyst's advice is right on the money; emphasize your flexibility and how the company can count on you in a pinch; the beneficial results of your CFness but not the CFness itself. Good luck!

"People, especially interviewers, like to talk about themselves, their accomplishments, and their company. Be the ONE interviewee that day who didn't drone on and on and on and on about himself and you may be considered the best for the job and they will have no real idea why they picked you over the others."

Agreed. It's all about appropriateness. If you first meet a person, you don't lay all your cards on the table. Your interview will not be a "bonding experience" etc.

One thing I always asked when I interviewed was, can you give a brief summary of your professional life so far? This is a "square one" question, but you wouldn't believe how people eliminate themselves at the first question. If someone rambles on for 10 minutes, they could be a boor or subject to grandiosity or not able to listen to other people. Or they could be desperate to sell themselves.

You want someone who can LISTEN. The interviewer said "SHORT," so that means you give a 3 minute summary of where you've been, not a 10-15 minute speech of how fly you are. But believe me, people do this. How embarrassing.

As an interviewer, especially if someone is meeting with clients, you want someone who can listen and give PERTINENT answers to questions. It's a skill. One of my favorite phrases is: Ask him the time of day, and he'll give you the history of the watch. You don't want to be like this. Confident people give a succinct answer and they move on. Don't be afraid of silence. After you have given an answer, smile and pause and look at the interviewer. They are asking the questions, not you. (If you have questions, you can wait and see if they give you a chance to ask questions. All good interviewers should do that at the wrap-up because they are selling themselves, too.)

I also agree that the "name an accomplishment you are proud of" is a good question. So many people don't have brains enough to figure out this accomplishment SHOULD be WORK-related. You are applying for a JOB. An inappropriate response would be, "I have a beautiful 36 month old girl." Well, lying on your back and getting fucked hardly requires any work. And frankly, for all you know your three year old is a future pole dancer or felon.

If someone can't think of an accomplishment, that could indicate low self-esteem and a person who needs constant assurance on the job. I always answer that I am proud of myself for working almost full time while I got my undergraduate degree.

Oh, and I agree about humor. STAY AWAY FROM HUMOR. The only "acceptable" kind of humor would be to add something at the end to the above and say, yes, and I was pretty tired of school after I finished. It took me 10 years to go to graduate school after that. (Because that highlights that I do have a master's degree and again, we are talking about a work accomplishment.)

Actually, when I worked in IT, I didn't mention my master's degree because it tends to work against you. People think you are an educated idiot and you can't write code.

If you come across as too eager for the traveling part of the job, it could well backfire.

I was once interviewing for a company, and before the interview, I was advised not to ask about the travel opportunities. It seems a lot of people were wanting the job just for that reason.

Also the interviewer could have inner biases that you don't know about. ITs best not to volunteer much information about your personal life. Just tell him that you have a lot of leeway in your schedule if he asks about it.

casseyrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you come across as too eager for the traveling
> part of the job, it could well backfire.
>

How true -- especially in the current economic climate, it's possible that travel has been axed from the budgets so you want to show interest in the day to day role and its opportunities and potential, not the travel bit.

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Being the Head of Human Resources at an agency, I can tell you first-hand that I want to know if the education, skill sets, and experience fit the job that we're looking to fill. I don't give a rip about someone's personal life. All I want to know is that you can and will get the job done without a hassle. This is why I not only check the references, but I ask the references (who are usually either previous supervisors or more than often friends of the candidate) for the names of 3 of the candidate's former co-workers and ask them a few questions. That and Google haved saved me and the agency I work for from hiring a few potential stinkers. Yes, it takes a while longer to hire, but since our agency is in the Federal government, it is hard as hell to fire someone unless they have murdered someone and got caught in the act. You would not believe the number of resumes I've received from candidates who put their full social security number on them (and also sending it via e-mail without encrypting it no less), their date of birth, and their marital and childed status. They are then taken out of the pile of potential candidates and sent written notice in the form of a "Thank You For Your Interest" that they were not selected. Reason why? Our agency classified information and if the candidate cannot protect their personal identifying information in a resume, how are we to trust them to protect classified information? For those who may say that is not fair, if the candidate wants the job that bad, they will take the time to read a Federal resume guide and proofread their resume to make sure that it fits the job they are applying for.

Quote

I do not know about other states, but in California you cannot ask about childbearing or marriage status in an interview. There are many oblique ways to discern this information, like asking about greatest accomplishments or hobbies. You can always count on a breeder to start the verbal diarrhea about Snotley's this and Shitford's that. You will also hear about all of the other brat-related crap once a breeder starts amplifying their answers. If the candidate brings it up himself/herself, you cannot ask any direct questions but they will almost always volunteer information that is mostly irrelevant or immaterial.

AAaahh... I'm in Cali and I didn't know this. I'm looking for another job and this information is great to know. Thanks to all of you guys for your wonderful knowlege in this area.