"Meeting New Men As a Single Mother" (article)

http://www.womanknows.com/dating/news/238/
(entire article)



Meeting New Men As a Single Mother

Jane was 39; she had a 7-year-old son. She prepared for a singles event very carefully: she lost weight, colored her hair; in a word, she tried to look more attractive. Then, having met some potential new love interests, Jane chose one of them. She tried to talk to him three or four times, but in vain. “The upshot”, she said with a deep sigh, “is that I asked the event’s organizer to show me his questionnaire and I found out that he prefers women without children.”
( First, I have to wonder why she was just now losing weight, fixing her hair, etc......JUST in the nick of time to try and snag a man. While I enjoy looking nice for my husband, I do the regular maintenance on ME for myself. Secondly, it's kind of obvious that if she wasn't aware of his CF'ness or his preference for a CF woman, then he wouldn't have been aware of her childed status either beforehand UNLESS she made it known IMMEDIATELY by running off at the mouth incessantly about kiddie crap like skool, soccer games, how cute this or that is that Jr. does, etc.......She literally bored the poor man to death is the likely reason he wasn't interested. She probably also went on and on about her recent diet and gave details about how much better her stretch marks blend in with her c-section scar, now that she has lost weight)


'Take your time. Think about how your new man can blend in with your life.
Don’t lose the “feeling of balance.” Put your needs and your children’s needs first.
Don’t overstep your bounds. Don’t burden your children with all the details about the changes in your private life.'
( Not bad advice necessarily, but no where does it mention the new MAN's needs. It's all about THEIR needs and the kyds' needs, without a thought in the world to how HE might feel or what needs that HE might need to have met. THIS is why they are'nt still with the last baybee daddy. These women don't care about the sperm donor's needs, NOR do they give a damn about the new man who will likely be paying the bills)



"At the same time, many single mothers feel very confident about meeting new men because they don’t have to prove to anybody that they can get married. They have already fulfilled themselves as mothers...."
( It has NEVER crossed my mind, not as a young never married woman or ever, that I had to "prove" to anyone that I could get married. What century do these women live in? ANYONE can get married, even the mentally retarded. Getting married is easy, it's staying married and/or staying happy that's often difficult. As for this business of they are already "fulfilled" as mothers, I have no inkling as to how that must feel. I am glad that I don't suffer from any "empty womb" syndrome because that must be awful to equate your ability to self replicate to your own personal worth.)


"Some women want to remarry and have a child with their new husband, but there are also women who openly enjoy their independence after an unhappy marriage."
( I buy that some women enjoy independence after a bad marriage for a time, but ALL (OR 99%) of childed women who remary want a child IMMEDIATELY with their new husband. I just sat here and thought for a few minutes, and other than some women I have known who had grown children when they remarried and were likely in or through menopause, I do not know ANY childed woman who has remarried and not IMMEDIATELY started working on "one of their own", NOT ONE)


"... some men don’t want to be involved with another man’s child. “Men are enamored of me,” says Mandy, the manager of a building company, “until I tell them that I have a son. As a rule, their interest instantly disappears; but if they still ask me out, most likely it’s because of their civility.”
( Possibly they are being civil OR they think that you are an easy lay. Actually, even though men often marry women who have prior kyds as they generally have prior kyds as well, I have never known ANY man who actively desires raising, paying for, or dealing with another man's child OR who wants to deal with the prior baybee daddy(s) himself. I do not personally know any childLESS or childfree men who have married a woman with kyds either. It's nearly always a man who has been oopsed in the past or who is divorced with kyds, or who otherwise has a kyd(s) hanging over his head who marries women with kyds. Kidless men have the luxury of being able to pick over the cows who have already calved, even IF they want a "litter of their own" one day.


Some stats:

More than half of single women remarry; (the operative word being RE-,marry. I wonder what the stats are for NEVER married "single moms"?)
The more children a single mother has, the less her chance of remarrying (about 2 million single women have one child; 1 million – 2 children; a half million – 3 or more children) (THIS sounds logical)
75% of second marriages happen after living together.


"....For some reason, they think that young, divorced mothers are desperately looking for attention and love. They like to think that such a woman would be grateful to them, because they have chosen her and not a young, single, childless woman. That’s why, before entering into a serious new relationship, it’s better to be sure of his intentions"
( A lot of men think all of that for a reason; It's true. So, if the man wants a free place to stay, a reliable piece of ass, AND a "grateful" moomie who makes a big deal about the least little thing like his springing for a frozen pizza, and no strings attached, a single moocow.is a perfect target, but it's their own faults)

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kidlesskim



So, if the man wants a free place to stay, a reliable piece of ass, AND a "grateful" moomie who makes a big deal about the least little thing like his springing for a frozen pizza, and no strings attached, a single moocow.is a perfect target, but it's their own faults)

So true!! I have actually known men who specifically targeted single moos for that very reason - they see them as an easy lay.

I also remember a former co-irker single moo who hooked up with this guy and after knowing him for a month, allowed him to move in with her and her brat (who I suspect was kinda "spayshul" - but that's another story). She was in near-paroxysms of delight b/c the dude had bought Shitford a toy - you'd swear she'd been handed a million bucks.

I thought it was pathetic, but I felt kinda sorry for her in a way. How fucking desperate do you have to be to make such a big deal over something so trivial?

Sucks to be moo, is all I can say.

The whole article REEKS of what is wrong with single mothers. Your kid is NOT the center of anybody's universe except yours. Get over it.

Kim, I don't know if Jane rambled on and on about her kyd the way you speculate. However, it is likely Jane mentioned her kyd early in the conversation, even if it were just in passing. That would be a reasonable and responsible thing to do, because it is often a make-or-break trait for potential suitors. When I am the guy and I learn that a woman who appears interested in me say that, I get that "deflated" feeling, like hitting "TILT" on a pinball machine. My chance of pursuing anything with the woman are now ZERO, and I have to find a reasonably polite way of telling her that (and I do).

I did make a minor gaffe a few years ago (before I met my present LF) while I was chatting on line via a popular dating website. There was a problem with the website and I had recently re-entered the text which included the words, "You must have no children." Or so I thought. However, I had used a much older version of my profile I had stored elsewhere and that sentence was not included (not because it wasn't true, I was hesitant to state it outright years ago). So, while this woman and I were having a pleasant chat, I checked out her profile and learned she had a kid (she had not mentioned it in our chat, which was fine becasue she had not hidden the fact that she had a kid). Anyway, I did not want to "ruin" our chat by dropping this bombshell on her so I sent her an email the next day after our chat explaining my mistake (not including the "no kids" text in my profile) and why I did not tell her this during our chat (not ruin the chat). I also added back the crucial missing text to my profile.

She was actually fine with what I did and we wished each other well. However, she had to be thinking, "If only I had no kids, that man (me) and I might have been compatible. Damn!"

"....She tried to talk to him three or four times, but in vain. “




Deegee,

It was this sentence right here that made me think that she went on and on about the kyd. It doesn't make any sense that a single man would attend a single's mixer and nearly REFUSE to even carry on a conversation with new women in attendance, even if it was just casual and polite conversation. . By refusing to even converse with her it probably would have made him appear kinda "picky" and everyone knows how word spreads around a crowded room full of single (but looking for a man) women in no time flat when a potential sperm donor has an attitude about kyds. So, something drastic must have caused him to narrow his chances of finding a date by basically ignoring her and giving her the brush off. That's what made me conclude that she must have gone on and on. That, and I have seen moocows in action before. They truly believe that men will be impressed by their single moo-martrydom and interested in their spawn. I suppose though that he could have just been a staunch CF, but if he was then instead of putting that he "prefers" women without children on his profile, it seems that he would have said, "NO kyds". When you found out that woman you chatted with had a kyd, you were still polite to her and finished a conversation, as most decent and well bred people would.

It was either she went on and on (MY pick), he was a staunch CF who didn't want to give her the wrong impression, he was just a rude person, OR she was so FUGLY that he couldn't bear to look at her long enough to carry on a conversation.

"Put your needs and your children’s needs first."

and

“Men are enamored of me,” says Mandy, the manager of a building company, “until I tell them that I have a son. As a rule, their interest instantly disappears; but if they still ask me out, most likely it’s because of their civility.”

NO WONDER single moos have trouble finding men. Do they EVER think for a second about the reverse scenario? What if THEY were single and childless and looking for dates and kept coming across single duhds who whined "my kids come first" and expecting them to be completely enamored of some other woman's brats? How interested would they be in playing free babysitter and housekeeper? Hmmm...probably NOT AT ALL.

The self-centered hypocrisy never ceases to amaze.

Cheese Louise, you said it so well. That's what I was thinking too.

Who in their right mind, man or woman, would want to enter an already strained (by virtue of there being only 1 parent to carry the burden of childrearing) relationship...only to be told he or she will be THIRD in line of importance?!

I dated a guy with a 12 year old years and years ago (not too bright; meh, it was a dumb choice of mine). I remember once there was a chance for us to go to--a large local antique show if I remember right--and I invited him. He said oh no, it was his weekend for the kid. Hm, I said well, would you consider maybe getting him a sitter for a few hours so we can see the show? OH NO NO NO you would have thought I'd have suggested heresy. I think he even said outright, "My kid comes first." OK, that's his choice--my choice after that was to skedaddle (good decision to counterbalance earlier dumb decision to even see this guy). Ain't worth it. I personally think that the 2 spouses/partners are equal members of the household and are the ones in charge, and the kids come second.

Kim,

I have not attended more than one or 2 singles event "mixers" in many years, since the early 1990s at best. I stopped going to them because the demographics kept getting worse and worse. That is, the male-female ratio (at least 4:1 male-to-female) and age distribution (women at least 10-15 years older than me, just a wee bit too much) became more and more unfavorable for me.

So, while I was going to these events, I was not as adamantly CF as I am today. While I was in 20s and going to these things in the 1980s, the women going to these things tended to be in their 20s and never married and no kids, just like me. Raising this issue in a casual first conversation I felt would be premature, and it could always come out if we began dating a few months. Most of the women I dated back then I did not date long enough to ever find this out, however. When it became an issue, I did not lie. Then the relaitionship usually ended pretty soon.

If I were to go to a singles event today, knowing how I feel today about kyds, I would not wear a banner around me which said, "no kyds" but if during casual conversation with a woman she mentioned she had kyds, I would try to quickly end the chat politely. I actually would tell her I did not want to date a woman who had kyds if she pressed me (i.e. kept after me throughout the mixer). If the word spread that I were too "picky" (see below) and most of the remaining women did not want to talk to me because ALL of them had kyds, then I would not consider that such a terrible outcome. Should I waste 10 minutes talking to each and every childed woman just to find that out, or be shunned by them without any conversations at all?

And, as you and many others have posted in this forum before, don't most single men (whether they want to have kyds at some point or are just CF) prefer to meet women who have no kyds? If so, then how would that make my telling a woman, perhaps more gently that this, "I am sorry, but there is no point in wasting each other's time because I do not wish to date a woman who has kyds" seem 'picky'? If we are right, then a single woman with kyds should be used to hearing this so it should come as no surprise to hear it from someone at a singles event. These single women with kyds should attend a "Parents Without Partners" event if they want to meet men who don't share this "majority" opinion instead of going to a more typical singles event then blame the men for dismissing them because they have kyds.

I don't know if there was a choice in the man's profile which was stronger than "prefers no women with kyds". Had there been one, he should have chosen it. However, a woman seeing that choice should be aware that she is already at a disadvantage to women with no kyds.

In my online incident, I only continued the conversation because I realized that I had left out the "You must have no children" in my profile. Had I actually included it, one of two things would have happened: (1) The woman would have seen it in my profile and never initiated the online chat with me, or (2) I would have cut off the online chat much sooner by (as gently as I possibly could) reminding her that in my profile I stated I did not want to date a woman who had kyds. I nearly did (2) but held off only because I did another check in my profile and I noticed that the key sentence was not present. Therefore, her actions were reasonable and I had to find a gentle way out of this self-made pickle later - a sincere apology for the mistake in my profile while at the same time NOT a mistake to continue chatting with her at the time.

Quote
clematis
Cheese Louise, you said it so well. That's what I was thinking too.

Who in their right mind, man or woman, would want to enter an already strained (by virtue of there being only 1 parent to carry the burden of childrearing) relationship...only to be told he or she will be THIRD in line of importance?!

I dated a guy with a 12 year old years and years ago (not too bright; meh, it was a dumb choice of mine). I remember once there was a chance for us to go to--a large local antique show if I remember right--and I invited him. He said oh no, it was his weekend for the kid. Hm, I said well, would you consider maybe getting him a sitter for a few hours so we can see the show? OH NO NO NO you would have thought I'd have suggested heresy. I think he even said outright, "My kid comes first." OK, that's his choice--my choice after that was to skedaddle (good decision to counterbalance earlier dumb decision to even see this guy). Ain't worth it. I personally think that the 2 spouses/partners are equal members of the household and are the ones in charge, and the kids come second.

They ALWAYS say that and it is NEVER true, not that I have witnessed. IF their kyd TRULY "came first" in their lives, then 9 times out of 10 they would have made sure that the man who was the sperm donor was a keeper and not a loser, If they had done what I just mentioned then they should have worked to keep their marriage together, and unless they are a widower/widow, IF their kyd truly "came first", then they wouldn't be a "single mom" in the first place. I realize there are special circumstances as I have heard the same excuses over and over and over, that I affectionately think of them as "single mom bingos", although single dads, SO CALLED (men are RARELY "on their own" when it comes to parenting) use them as well. These common excuses for their single parenthood include (but are not limted to) the following.

1)It was an unplanned pregnancy, he just took off when he found out (So, you have a kyd, why exactly? That is not a good excuse at all. I can't IMAGINE having casual sex without using birth control (even if I was a breeder) and of course there is always abortion and adoption. This excuse is especially lame and martry-like)
2)My wife/GF/hubby/BF got on drugs/alcohol really bad and I got custody (Often times this is sympathy inducing lie and if it is true, WHY did he knock her up or WHY did she let him knock her up? Alcoholism and drug addiction are'nt developed overnight, ya know?)
3)My husband/baybee daddy was abusive (They NEVER suddenly become that way after the kid is born, but were that way loooonnnggggg before. This is SO their own faults for not only staying, but for bringing an innocent kyd into the mix)


RARELY do divorced parents admit that they simply just couldn't get along anymore and rather than work out their problems and truly put the kid's needs first, they took the easy way out. These types of single parents are easy to spot because they are STILL "married" to their ex, although perhaps not legally. These two never fell out of love and it's plain for all to see. They were just too selfish to make their marriage work and Ironically, their problems getting along didn't usually.start until AFTER they had a kid. You know, the one who "always comes first". They SAY this a good bit, but their actions speak VOLUMES. My ex used to say that ALL of the time, "My DAUGHTER comes first", as he was walking out the door to go on another one of his weekend gambling trips, EVEN IF it may have been on one of his "weekends". He ALWAYS stuck me with her to "visit" as often as I would let him get away with it in the very beginning when she was 2-4 years of age. When a "single parent" says that, what they really mean is that is what they want you to think, and it also gives them an excuse to make you feel guilty if you want them to do something with you when it falls on their "visit". The fact is, that if it was something that THEY really wanted to do, wild horses couldn't keep them away.

This "my child comes first" is pure bullshit and is used to benefit the parent, NOT the child. In every single case I have ever personally witnessed at arm's length or with people who I have personally been involved, male and female parent alike, they all have said it but didn't back that statement up at all, in the least with their actions. I don't even know why they continue to bother saying it when it's blatantly obvious it's a great big lie. The truth is that THEY come first over YOUR needs, their CHILD'S needs, their FAMBLEE'S needs, their EMPLOYER'S/CO-WORKER'S needs, or anyone else's needs for that matter. This martyr known as a "single mom" or pretend "single dad" are among the most selfish breeds of people who have ever lived and I can't stand to be around any of them for any length of time. .

Deegee, I hear you about the 4:1 thing. As a female doing the online thing, it was about 12:1 men vs. women. It was not a traditional dating site. Another long story. All I can say is many of the fathers talk about their families coming first but they do not mean it if they were doing what they wanted to be doing. I was soooo picky and called on it many times. Hey, my time is very valuable and more so back then due to work schedule. I did not want to deal with a man with kids who said only his time frame would be when we could see each other. I dealt with that for a short time with a man who had grown stepkids and the step-grandkids. I deep-6'd that one ASAP. I did go with one childed man for a short time but got rid of him as I just felt he was a jerk and I was one, also, for going with him. I heard the women on the site were so very desperate for male attention and would go with anything. Not me...