Some advice from men to a soon to be dad

So we are sitting at the table chit chatting after Christmas dinner. My cousin and his wife are expecting their first baby in about 2 months.
The men at the table start giving advice to my cousin, saying things like you will learn to love to fish, hunt, hike, cut wood, and work more once the kid gets here, because it is going to be miserable in that house and you will want to run far away from the bitching , moaning, complaining, and whining.
They were also saying things like, the nice wife is gone and the bitch will take over, you will be told what to do., who to associate with, what to wear, what to eat, and when you can sleep. My uncle suggested that my cousin do as he did and build a small cabin in the deer woods,not for hunting but for napping and getting away from the monster of a wife.
I did not hear one positive comment from the married with kids about the whole experience. The women of course, had a whole other story, they were in the other room talking about baby crap,so I stayed with the men to talk about anything but breeder crap.

Amazing that not one man was happy as a breeder, but was very happy as a non-breeder.
Doesn't take a genius to figure out which option will keep you sane and happy.

T wo
H ousehold
I ncome
N o
K ids
E arly
R etirement

Their advice is coming a bit late--were they telling him this all along and he wouldn't listen, or did they just not mention it until now?

They have joked about it , since he decided to get married, but they were serious this time. I think they want him to be as miserable as they were.

T wo
H ousehold
I ncome
N o
K ids
E arly
R etirement

I am sorry that your cousin has this coming to him. At this point and time, he is better off finding something to keep him busy in his off work time. I am almost certain he was oopsed and had no say so in this. I do not know of very many men who really wanted to be fathers. The ones that did, only did so because they felt they had to and had no mind or will of their own.

Many life choices are not actually choices. Both men and women "conform" to the rule and norm of society. We may think we can deviate from it, but we really do not, not that much, anyways. Our society is very harsh or people who do not conform. I hope it will change someday and life will become a life that we live the way we want to live it, not the way our society tells us to live it.

It really makes me wonder if the women in the other room were being honest to the preggo or just offering the usual propaganda about how wonderful and perfect her life will be once the baybee is born.

The biggest moan that I overheard from new moomies and from what I actually remember of my own mother experiencing at age 27 with their 3rd kid as a new baybee, was that the men seem to disappear when the baybee wakes up and re-appear after it is in bed. Many of them are great at playing with it (while it's happy, clean, changed and being cute) but for only 30 or so minutes at a time. They don't mind putting it to bed, UNLESS it starts wailing. I personally know two men with school age kyds who have NEVER, not once, changed a diaper or given a bath to ANY of their kyds, NOR do they take them to the doctor (I doubt if they know the kyds' doctors' names either) to or from school/daycare, or make it anything to eat besides handing it a cookie or cracker or shoving a prepared bottle in it's piehole. Men do NOT want to fool with baybees and kyds and they resent the hell out of it that their wife won't have sex anymore because she's tired from the baybee, and that she bitches, complains and moans, but they won't lift a finger to help her so she WILL feel like it. I see it as a real catch 22 and a CURSE to both, but especially for the men. It seems like they always learn too late that they were perhaps really CF all along.

On that aboverubies fundie women website, it has tons of info on there about "good marriages", and it speaks of forgiveness for husbands' affairs (one of which had one with the wife's friend who came over to help while she was on her back with preggo complications) because after the kyds are grown he will come to realize that this is his famblee, and he will be home to stay. YEAH, once he's sowed his oats and is drawing social security, sheesh!. VERY FEW men are interested in this bullshit and it pisses women off so they start playing martyr moo, which only makes the men pull further away. My own father went on NUMEROUS fishing and hunting trips for 2-3 days at the time, went "out with the boys" many nights and didn't get home until we were in bed, he slept until after we were fed and left for school and worked until we went to bed most nights, and for a time when we were ages 9,4, and 1, he up and took a traveling salesman's job with his company and would be gone for WEEKS at the time, which upset my mother tremendously. Oddly enough though, when my youngest sister was out of the house, which would have put him at about age 50 or so , he suddenly stopped going on most every single out of town or weekend trip. I asked him why once and he said it was because his eyesight was getting bad. YEAH RIGHT.

I don't understand why people keep lying and saying, "It's different when it's your own", or "It's all worth it", or "It will be different when the baybee gets here", when the truth is that after the moocows deliver, reality sets in, and the ongoing lavish attention wanes, they are absolutely devastated. The men are mostly wishing that they had gotten snipped and probably suffer from guilt that they are NOT happy, like "everybody else" and like people say that they should be. It's basically a HUGE pile of shit and if breeders would be honest about it to childless young people, then we would likely see an increase in the CF population, almost overnight.

men use the humour to make points, he didnt take heed..

its a form of self protection, incase people hear and assume the worst and rip into the other men.

techie is right..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

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annie35
who to associate with, what to wear, what to eat, and when you can sleep...

...and then when I show a glimmer of independent thought, you strap me down, you inject me with drugs... You call it a TREATMENT! Well, I might be surrounded by insanity, but I am not INSANE!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

Nothing ruins a marriage faster than brats and the arguments they create. The endless whines from either party that feels neglected and so forth gets tedious and distracting.

No thanks. I married Fujiko for her, not to produce any brats.

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kidlesskim
I don't understand why people keep lying and saying, "It's different when it's your own", or "It's all worth it", or "It will be different when the baybee gets here", when the truth is that after the moocows deliver, reality sets in, and the ongoing lavish attention wanes, they are absolutely devastated. The men are mostly wishing that they had gotten snipped and probably suffer from guilt that they are NOT happy, like "everybody else" and like people say that they should be. It's basically a HUGE pile of shit and if breeders would be honest about it to childless young people, then we would likely see an increase in the CF population, almost overnight.

Breeder people have no balls to say that they made a mistake. It could be because they would hate their lives, and be very jealous of others or they could have other reasons.
I have a co-worker who lost a ton of money in his 401k. He tries to keep his sanity by saying it was not so bad and that it will all get better. He does not have any other choice. Breeders do not have any other choice - not at all, they are in it until they die.

Someone wrote in another thread that they thought most men don't want children. I disagree based upon what I've experienced. I think most men want children so they can strut around, say their dick worked, carry on the family name (even if it's Smith) and generally be treated better by society. (In Breederific 'Merika, a man without children is often initially regarded as gay or impotent, etc.)

I think most men want THEIR WIVES to have children as a way to get the benefits and stick her with the cunt work. It has the added benefit of keeping her tractable. When you are stuck at home with kids or dependent on a man to be a wallet and faaaaaather, how much say do you really have? I hear stuff like this from my in-laws. My MIL and my SIL will start up with the, "in a marriage, it's never completely equal. It's more like 55-45." I stayed silent but I thought, sheesh, I guess this is how Breeder women live. My husband wouldn't dare not consult me about a major decision because he knows I don't need him. I am with him because we both want to be here, and, quite simply, if he treated me poorly, I would leave.

Men at the party talk out of both sides of their mouths. At the party, they wanted to rib the dude and tell him his life was going to suck. But if you asked most of these men if they were happy to have chee-ill-drun, I would bet they would say yes and bingo you into next week.

This thread made me think of this guy that DH knows on-line. My DH posts on a sports-related webpage. One day the Dude launched into a long, whiny tirade that went like this: TTC is really fun because you get sex all the time. Once the woman gets knocked up, you'll never get sex again because of the pregnasty sickness, the demands of pregnasty on a woman's body, the squalling loaf, the breast feeding, the post partum recovery, etc. But when they were discussing current events and some article that said women in Iraq and Afghanistan don't have reproductive freedom and access to contraception and abortion, he went all, "It's that damn 'liberal media' and those evil Feminazis who want to push abortion on demand to all of these countries and degrade their moral fiber." (And the article was just talking about birth control!)

If you asked this Dude whether women should have access to birth control and be able to limit their family size or choose not to have them at all, the mere thought of it would make him angry. It never occurs to someone like this that women should have the OPTION to not breed. It's just their lot in life. So, even if having kids makes his wife (and him) miserable, it would never occur to him not to breed.

most of the men of my acquaintence, and thats a lot i went to an all boys catholic school, i still see a lot of them, mostly the ones a year younger, and most of those about 50 i know personally, dont want kids, they just dont tell their wives/girlfriends because there is the same pressure to breed put upon men by women..

"I disagree based upon what I've experienced. I think most WOmen want children so they can strut around, say their Uterus worked, carry on the family name (even if it's Smith) and generally be treated better by society. (In Breederific 'Merika, a WOman without children is often initially regarded as gay or impotent, etc.)"

see it works the same way around, a lot has been said about women being pressured into breeding by society, ITS exactly the same for men. talk to a man privately, and he will tell you. talk to a woman privately and she will tell you.


"So, even if having kids makes her husband (and her) miserable, it would never occur to her not to breed." why is it different because they are men. Why is it different because they are different?


cant both sexes think the same thing, feel under ths same pressure, lie to fit in with societal ideals. (case in point gay men who marry and have a kid only to later leave because they realise the truth about themselves?)

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I wish my husband could find some of these men to tell him about how much they hate being a father. He's a fencesitter - as was I when I met him. He knows that I have decided that I do not want children. We've had discussions on it; how it would totally destroy our sleep-all-day lifestyles, how we wouldn't have the time or money to do the things that we like to do, etc. It doesn't help that so many of his friends our age are starting to have kids, and all they do is talk about how great being a father is. Of course, this is always while the MOTHER is off changing the diaper, or the MOTHER is doing the feeding, or the MOTHER is putting the fussy baby down to sleep.

I know he works with men that are older than we are, and that over the past year several of them have been going through divorces. I can only hope that his discussions with the guys at his work are less "lollipops and rainbows" and more about the realities of fatherhood.

they are out there, but just like women pretending to want kids as we all know there are ones out there, its exactly the same for men.

he really needs to talk honestly to some of his male friends, ask them truly what they feel, and it wont get back to their wives. thats always a fear, that it will make their lives a hell if the woman finds out.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Bell and LoveToLurk, how about showing those fence-sitters the column by Ann Landers where she asked her readers back in the 1970s the question, "If you could do it over again, would you have kids?" and was shocked at the 70% of responses where the answer was "NO!" Yes, it was unscientific, but I do not doubt the intensity of the replies.

I should also add that it was my search for this survey which led me to the link below which then led me to finding this board a few months ago.

http://www.happilychildfree.com/ann.htm

It is a pretty long column, so I won't paste its entire contents here. Category Two in her 4 categories seems to be the most relevant to the fence-sitters described in this thread but the other 3 categories should not be dismissed or lessened in any way.

"cant both sexes think the same thing, feel under ths same pressure, lie to fit in with societal ideals"

I wasn't saying they could not. I was just talking about my own experience with men. I should have phrased it as "most men I've ever met" felt that way about kids. I met very many baby-rabid men when I was dating. If you know 50 guys who don't want them, I think that's great.

What isn't so great is how society pressures both genders to breed. I was born in the 60's, and I still remember that sinking feeling of dread when I was a kid myself and I contemplated my future. I knew I didn't want children from the age of about 9 on, but I didn't think there was a way to get away with not having them. I knew I was heterosexual and I would like to find a life partner, but I was aurrounded by the "BREED BREED BREED" message.

I feel bad for younger women and men today. Our baybee-obsessed society seems to be getting worse each day.

I'm thankful I've had a hysterectomy and I'll never have to worry about a birth control failure.

i have the opposite experience when it comes to women, most women especially here where having a child means easy life paid for by the government, there is a significant amount of men my age and my brothers age 47 who have never had or wanted them.. there were some who have kids, but they too were pressured so while they didnt want them they assumed it was what men did..

of course i do know some who have kids, lots of kids.. but it seems to be a rarity at least in st helens and surrounding areas.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

One night a few years ago my sister (with two kyds) and her husband and I were up late playing poker and drinking. The subject of parenting came up. They BOTH admitted that if they knew what they now know before having had kyds and could change it, then they would NOT have ever had any children. Of course that was immediately followed up with the typical, "...but we LOVE our children and wouldn't trade them for the wooorrrrllllllllld.........." comments that we hear so often. I attribute this to their falling prey to societal expectations and their naive' belief in the fairy tale famblee. My sister was most definately the aggressor here and hubby followed her wishes although he NEVER expressed anything other than he never wanted kyds, UP UNTIL they started "TTC", then he was all rainbows and puppy dogs. Other than the backward fundie types who take the word "famblee" a little further than the average person, like half their famblee could be killed and they could still single handedly fill up an entire football stadium with immediate famblee members, I woud venture to say that MOST parents would NOT have kyds again if they could take a ride in the proverbial time machine.

i worked with a guy who would say to me all the time about how he wishes he never had kids, but he would never say that around the other men that had kids.then you have my brother who wanted kids but had a nervous breakdown every time his wife was pregnant, because he was worried that they couldnt afford it.i felt like saying to him well what the fuck did you think was going to happen you are both unskilled on average wages.

Bellflower, I totally agree with you.
There are plenty of men who want kids, even if they don't want to actually care for or interact with those kids. It shows the dick works, it shows they "own" someone, blah blah blah. Basically, it's just AlphaMale bullshit...kind of like the Moofemale bullshit. If you don't sprog, you aren't a true male/female whatever. It's not about raising children, it's not about the future, it's about attention whoring, one-upping everyone else and "fitting in". Mouth breather SAHDuh aquaintance is a perfect example, stays at home with the kids while their mother works but, as soon as she gets home he's got to run off with the boys to play rock music. He doesn't actually do anything with the kids except keep them from eating cleaning products and hurting themselves, no reading, no potty training, nothing. Fucker doesn't even clean, but I guess that's the life of a SAH anyone. Then he gets to band practice and whines and cries about how HAAAAARD it is out of one side of his face, while using "Thog dick work" type reasoning to try to pressure my husband in to sprogging, because it's what men do...UGH!

We are fortunate enough to know more people, of both genders, who would rather do other things with their time than raise children and are strong and smart enough to then follow through (with not having children). Or maybe it's just that when I realize someone wants/has kids, I avoid them as much as possible.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

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Feh
Bellflower, I totally agree with you.
There are plenty of men who want kids, even if they don't want to actually care for or interact with those kids. It shows the dick works, it shows they "own" someone, blah blah blah. Basically, it's just AlphaMale bullshit...kind of like the Moofemale bullshit. If you don't sprog, you aren't a true male/female whatever. It's not about raising children, it's not about the future, it's about attention whoring, one-upping everyone else and "fitting in". Mouth breather SAHDuh aquaintance is a perfect example, stays at home with the kids while their mother works but, as soon as she gets home he's got to run off with the boys to play rock music. He doesn't actually do anything with the kids except keep them from eating cleaning products and hurting themselves, no reading, no potty training, nothing. Fucker doesn't even clean, but I guess that's the life of a SAH anyone. Then he gets to band practice and whines and cries about how HAAAAARD it is out of one side of his face, while using "Thog dick work" type reasoning to try to pressure my husband in to sprogging, because it's what men do...UGH!

We are fortunate enough to know more people, of both genders, who would rather do other things with their time than raise children and are strong and smart enough to then follow through (with not having children). Or maybe it's just that when I realize someone wants/has kids, I avoid them as much as possible.

I personally have not met many men who wanted kids. In fact, I have few friends whose marriages have ended because kid issue came up. I cannot doubt that there are men who want to sprog, I can see it happening. Many men who are controlling and abusive or have low self esteem, want to have their wife sprog because they want to "put a stake in the ground".

Now, I have yet to meet a true CF woman. I am not saying they are not there, it's just most CF women I met were breeders, they just did not show it right away. I guess CF people are just hard to come by, many breeders try to hook up with CF because we do not have child support payments.

"Now, I have yet to meet a true CF woman. I am not saying they are not there, it's just most CF women I met were breeders, they just did not show it right away...."



That is SO true and so widely accepted as fact by breeder men also. That made me be very wary of showing any tenderness, affection toward a chyld, stereotypical feminine characteristics, or in ANY way coming across like the image that most breeder males have in their heads as being "motherly" or "maternal". If a CF woman allows those feelings and characteristics to show during the "dating phase", then it is an open invitation to a breeder male to bingo her to death, "SEE, you would make a great mother, kids LOVE you!", ". I heard that bingo so much that I had coined a pretty good comeback for it while on the dating scene in between marriages. It was, "I never said that I didn't think that I would make a great mother or that kids didn't like me. I KNOW that I would make a great mother and I know that kids love me. I simply DO NOT want to have any "of my own", NOR do I want to share the responsibility to raise anyone else's kids on any regular or full time basis either, EVER".

In retrospect, I should have revised the comeback to read, "......NOR do I want to marry anyone who even HAS a kid from a prior relationship as I want NO PART full OR part time, in raising anyone else's chyld.". Otherwise, childed men will use it (the openess to "part time") as a loophole that their chyld ONLY "visits" 3 days a month, a month in the Summer and a week during the holidays. They will FURTHER lie and say that other than the monthly check they send their wives, that they have NO CONTACT with her, which is a HUGE pile of shit. They will DUMP their kid off on you DAY AND NIGHT if you let them AS will the bio mother, they STILL costs lots extra and they will rape YOUR pocketbook to get it after a time, while the bio parents just go on as if life is dandy and act (and say) that all that you do and give should be a "JOY", since their child is so fucking special. If you had a personality like mine and you hold in anger, GOD help them when the volcano finally erupts, which is exactly what happened in my case.

I have never known of ANY bio father who didn't pawn his kyd off on his new wife CF or not , ever. They KNOW that if you buck the system, then they have a "child card", which is why they so desparately want you to have "one of their own",so you will be stuck, trapped, and FORCED into turning your whole life into one big shithole of a daycare center, ATM, and taxi driver. NO THANKS.

I dunno, my wife is a true CF. She was on the fence/leaning CF when we met 15 years ago, but now she has baby anti-rabies or whatever you'd call it. I was always CF, and the older I get, the more entrenched I get in that regard. I got snipped about a year ago, to prove it. Wife gave full support and encouragement.

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Some advice from men to a soon to be dad

Fake your own death, move to the South Pacific?:spin

I think a lot of the men who really want kids are the religious types. They can't be out done by the other DUH's at church, of course, so they have to spawn so they can show of their precious little tard. Plus, there's all that brats are a gift from god crap, so they feel entitled to their gift (even though they want nothing to do with it beyond conception). I see a lot of this thinking here in the South, and especially in the Bible Belt. I have yet to find a guy I'd want to date because they all want me to spawn their shitty hellion. :scr


Kaye