arguing with an asshole about statutory rape

I'm arguing with an asshole on another message board about statutory rape. He thinks that kids are capable of deciding whether they want to be sexually active with older men. I say there should definitely be an age limit, say 16 or so, and that sex with much older men can be damaging to young girls in many different ways. Does anybody have links to studies to that effect?

Is this fellow a member of NAMBLA?

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

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Feh
Is this fellow a member of NAMBLA?

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like a NAMBLA member to me.

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H ousehold
I ncome
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R etirement

Hmm, maybe.
I told him that obviously I could understand the attraction on some level, but that girls below a certain age aren't capable of making decisions like that. Also, I know from firsthand experience how manipuative the older guys can be with inexperienced young girls, though I didn't mention that in the conversation. It's not a fair matchup, to say the least.

He was basically, "well that's her problem then. We shouldn't limit the pedo's freedom and rights." In short, it seems the guy has no concern for others.

You may very well be dealing with a card carrying member of NAMBLA.
From what I've seen (and listened to outside opinions) a lot of what is going on seems to be gearing adult access to children sexually.
The youngsters are being sexualized at earlier and earlier ages (usually thanks to their brainless moos and duhs), courts seem to be backing off more and more on adults with 16 years olds, 14 year olds (the age is going down), and the input from the American Psychological Association which came out with some report that the effects of childhood molestation is overstated. They only backed away (did NOT abandon the idea at all, they are too arrogant for that) after a huge uproar: this was several years ago. I think even Congress voted virtually unanimously to censor the organization. (Only one hold out which was some limo liberal democrat or something, I don;t remember who exactly.)
Personally, I think the day is coming when someone can molest your child and you will not be able to do a thing about it. And I'm talking about 10 year old kids..

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

Mmmm...if they're too young to sign a legally binding contract, an adult shouldn't be having sex with them. It's not just older men, younger girls...there's a lot of older men, younger boys...and well...we all know about the issues of female teachers/students. The only "attraction" I see is that it might be pretty attractive to have someone to do with what you wish at your whim.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

i cant find any studies lawyer, doesnt mean they arent out there, all i can find is second hand stories that mention the studies in passing. no names or dates.

in the UK, you are legally an adult at 16, you cant vote till 18, you can get married at 16, but cant drink til 18,

Now in todays world, it seems that young girls in particular are growing up too fast, for example in some countries its legal according to their laws, but not in your home country, which law should be followed. its a difficult question.

at 18 i would regularly drink, if i went to america at that time i wouldnt be able too, and vice versa. which law takes precedence. the law in the country you are in, shouldnt it be.

different cultures, have different laws, rightly or wrongly, it depends on the culture, the sociological background of that area. i dont know.

i have seen 15 year old girls go after older men, to get a kid, older men have more money, young girl is set for life..

i have seen young boys go after older women, for the experience and the sense of being taught. can it affect them, possibly. it depends on the maturity of the person involved. not just physical maturity, but the whole social/mental maturity

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

as you can see even the states have different laws when it comes to age of consent.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I think that with the exception of children having sex with one another, that an adult (someone over 21) who engages in sexual activity with a minor under the age of 18 should be prosecuted for statutory rape. Of course there are gray areas such as the numerous cases of a 15 y/o dating a 19 y/o for 2 years and her not turning 18 before he reaches 21, and the ones where 16-17 y/o girls lie about their ages, etc.........that need to be taken into consideration, among other exceptions. However, in this day and age where girls/boys don't skip school altogether to work the famblee farm, get maried at 16, pop out a famblee, and then die at 35, there are FEW and RARE reasons why a 22 y/o should have any interest in a 16 y/o kyd, for instance. The cases of a 25 y/o and a 12 y/o are pretty cut and dried though and I do NOT believe that there is a preteen alive who has reached the level of maturity necessary to give consent to sexual relations with an adult.

As much as these "age challenged" NAMBLA people don't want to admit it, THEY (the adults) are always the ones who are seeking out and creating relationships with minors while in a guardianship, coach, or teacher capacity, or are otherwise in a position of authority over the child. Then, with premeditation they form sexual relationships with the children after having achieved an emotional bond with them. I think that this is worse than a peeping Tom perve who fondles kyds that he grabs off the streets. I have NEVER heard a molested child say that HE thought about or sought out the sexual relationship with the adult in advance, but rather he expresses an emotional bond with the perv and wants to take up for him.her and defend him/her. Therefore, he/she doesn't yet have the level of emotional maturity necessary to comprehend what actually happened and can NOT "consent" to shit with an adult, IMHO.

in the UK 21 year olds and 16s theres no problem, thats a cultural difference, here its looked on as being a little dodgy, but its legal. at 16 in the UK you are an adult, so legally 16 year olds can sleep with 40 year olds.. its not against the law. maybe its morally dubious,

in a lot of cases theres a 4 year limit, see this is a grey area in itself. is there an answer i dont know..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Yeah, I'm not sure what the age limit should be, but maybe 16 should be legal. I really believe there is a point, however, where the kid is just too young.

I did find something saying 80% of all teen pregancies were via a guy at least in his 20s.

This guy's grody, but not shocking. Why do old guys always go after girls young enough to be their daughters?

NAMBLA...is that the North American Marlon Brando Look-alike Association:ds

Lolita Complex is very widespread in today's world.

There's stories of older Japanese men dating young schoolgirls and even paying them LOTS of money for SEX, too.

And little girls are being groomed like budding hookers in our culture today, too. That includes child beauty pageants, where overweight, aging moos live the "princess fantasy" through their poor prepubescent daughters.

Not only are sexually ideal girls getting younger and younger, but women considered "OVER the hill" are getting younger and younger, too. (For instance, we hardly see even a 20 year old heroine in today's Disney and anime shows.)

So much for living longer and better lives as well as the feminist movement in 1970s.

on a purely, genetic basis, ok, purely genetic basis, men can become fathers at older ages than women. now some have said that this has helped create a longer lived human species, the weaker young wont breed, so the older have a more beneficial genetic structure for producing long lived peoples. a form of non corrupted human, if you consider that there is less likely of STD's with younger partners, who have never or only had a very few partners, compared to the older who may have had more partners so the risk is higher. i can see the genetic benefits for being in an older male younger female relationship, culturally thats another matter.

(there are exceptions i know).

look at heinlein and his future history and lazarus long,and the howard families.

(banshee isnt being able to do that part of the feminist dogma, freedom to choose the life you want and the age which you want to do things, its off topic, i know just a thought i dont want it to go down that talk, i will talk about it in other places if you want.)

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

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mercurior
on a purely, genetic basis, ok, purely genetic basis, men can become fathers at older ages than women. now some have said that this has helped create a longer lived human species, the weaker young wont breed, so the older have a more beneficial genetic structure for producing long lived peoples. a form of non corrupted human, if you consider that there is less likely of STD's with younger partners, who have never or only had a very few partners, compared to the older who may have had more partners so the risk is higher. i can see the genetic benefits for being in an older male younger female relationship, culturally thats another matter.

(there are exceptions i know).

look at heinlein and his future history and lazarus long,and the howard families.

(banshee isnt being able to do that part of the feminist dogma, freedom to choose the life you want and the age which you want to do things, its off topic, i know just a thought i dont want it to go down that talk, i will talk about it in other places if you want.)

Hmm...sounds like men want women...to make good incubators for their perfect descendants.

And it also sounds like natural selection and that it has nothing to do with real love.:/

That's probably not true with most men anymore today, right?

(I'm sorry about going off-topic, BTW.)

Oh come on. Young girls are NOT attracted to old guys. Sorry but they just aren't. Some of the thicker teenagers can be talked into sex with men 15, 20, 25 years older than them, but they only do it because they lost the 'argument' and were outmanoeuvred by the guy who made them feel bad for not giving themselves up to him.

The statutory rape laws were put in place so that it ends all these stupid arguments that paedophiles try to make to excuse their brutish behaviour. "But I thought she was 18..." "But we love each other..." "But she likes older men..." "But she was wearing these short-shorts and so she was asking for it..." No no no no no. All these ifs ands and buts do not change the fact she's still in school and therefore NAFF (not available for fucking). Screw a minor and go to jail.

Admittedly, fumblings between a couple of teens of 16, 17, 18 (doesn't matter which one is what age) is not the same thing here. It's not only forgiveable but the standard way to start learning about sex.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

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Nikki
This guy's grody, but not shocking. Why do old guys always go after girls young enough to be their daughters?

I'm by no means an authority on the subject, but from my experience and observations most human sexual development stops after a certain point. If nothing else, we certainly have access to the previous versions.

Let's take me as an example. I started "noticing girls" around the usual age... middle school-ish. I would say that my sexual interest in the opposite sex fully developed over the course of a few years and by the time I was 16 I was about as horny as any young man ever could be. The girls that it was entirely natural and normal for me to be interested in pursuing (though wholly unarmed for such a task) were of the same age range.

Now we fast forward *_mumble* years and I still have a pretty clear recollection of who I was (a young idiot) and what I felt like (a horny idiot) at that age. So when I see a girl that, when viewed nostalgically through the perceptions of my youth, would have once been an appropriate target for lust, I am not wholly immune to that.

I am not, however, remotely interested in actually acting on that because I recognize it for what it is: a silly and completely inappropriate thing to attempt to move from the "if I were *_mumble* years younger and single" realm into reality.

As a rational adult I recognize that no matter how cute a girl it might be there's no actual connection. I'm using a backup copy of my psyche to see her in that kind of light, which is no basis for any real action.



The problem, near as I can see, comes when men stupidly try to reawaken that horny little teen within them in some misguided attempt to reconnect with their youth. I'd question the honesty of any man past thirty who said he'd never felt that tug. But the sane ones among us understand that's just as foolish as thinking we're ever going to be able to party like we did when we were young without paying for it the next day like we're old.

Chasing the young girl might make you feel young for awhile, but it won't really make you young. It's a pipe dream that, unfortunately, many men aren't mature enough even at a mature age to recognize.



As for why the girls do it... I imagine it's no different as to why it so easy for the Senior boy to date the Freshman girl. The older the guy you date the more it says you're mature and every bit as much a woman as the "grown up" women are.

Unfortunately along with that comes a lot of social pressure whether the older man wants or even tries to apply it. It doesn't matter if it's age, money, or what, whoever has the primary source of power in a relationship influences the other person whether they want to or not. That Senior can pretty much pick any Freshman they want, so the Freshman is acutely aware that if they don't keep making the Senior happy they'll lose them.



And that, in a nutshell, is why it's always wrong for a much older guy to date a young girl. It is absolutely impossible to tell whether she agrees to something because she actually agrees to it or because she thinks he wants her to agree to it. Neither he nor she can be expected to actually know the truth of her motives.

When I was in my teens and 20's, I always went for older guys, like my dad's age. The main reason that I enjoyed it was because I felt as if I had more in common with them as far as interests, awareness, and maturity. The second reason I liked dating older men was because they generally had more net disposable income and we could enjoy doing more things and going more places than the $1 matinee on Saturday afternoon. Also, by that age most men don't go out with their drinking buddies every other night and act like fools. They also made me feel more secure because they were buying houses instead of paying rent on dumps with 3 or 4 other guys, making investments instead of blowing their extra money at the beach, and appeared to be more stable and give a damn about their futures. The downside to much older men is that eventually they begin to take on a "father image" of sorts and start up the bullshit of trying to get the young woman to conform to their idea of "Mrs. Perfect", which I might add ALWAYS included plans for us to "have a famblee of our own". This was the case in my first marriage at age 19 to a 34 y/o man.


The truth is that no matter HOW mature HE was, or how mature that I thought that I was, I simply did NOT have the time on this earth to have "caught up" with him NOR was I anywhere near as mature as I had thought. Marrying an older, mature, secure older man does NOT make the one who marries him more mature, necessarily. Maturity is NOT transferrable. People who think that they are in love will overlook little things like maturity in their spouse in the beginning, whether it's immaturity OR more mature. However, regardless of presumed maturity levels, chronologically speaking, there is no way that an 18 or 19 y/o can be as mature as a 34 y/o (on average) as they simply have not lived as long or had as many life experiences, in general and in my personal experience. Of course, no one sees this UNTIL they are actually older and more mature, which by then it's too late usually to salvage an emotionally lop sided relationship. Hence the phrase, "Youth is wasted on the young". People always come up with these anecdotal love stories about being 35 and marrying a 17 y/o and living happily ever after, but I can't help but notice that these lasting relationships were generally formed in the 1950's and can't be compared to today, I don't believe.

A lot has to do with the chronological age itself, rather than the actual number of years separating them. For instance, a 49 y/o and a 34 y/o would have pretty good odds in comparison to a 17 y/o and a 32 y/o. IMHO.

i was just saying about the genetic, which does some programming of the mind, but we can override it most of the time.

love is just a way for them to make sure dna is passed to the next generation a monogamous marraige is one of the ways dna can preserve itself.

as can be seen in swans, and other animals, some are in polygamous groups, that works for them too.. so i can see why it happens, not excusing it, but just can see why it happens

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein