Why are mind changers so stupid?

Like a young man gets a vasectomy and later changes his mind. If they're denied reversal, the doctor is sued! These people who change their minds after sterilizations are REALLY messing it up for REAL childfree individuals who are seeking sterilizations. Doctors are so hesitant to to perform vasectomies on young men, thanks to these mind changers!

Why are these mind changers so stupid!?

the never think of the consequences before their actions, you have to do some soul searching before you make the decision not just do it coz everyone else is

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Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

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CF West
Like a young man gets a vasectomy and later changes his mind. If they're denied reversal, the doctor is sued! These people who change their minds after sterilizations are REALLY messing it up for REAL childfree individuals who are seeking sterilizations. Doctors are so hesitant to to perform vasectomies on young men, thanks to these mind changers!

Why are these mind changers so stupid!?

Sorry, I gotta call "Stupid" on this one.

No one denies a vasectomy reversal. They just don't always work. The problem is not that the guys change their mind, it's that they don't take responsibility for the first decision to get the snip, and then the sue because the reversal didn't work.

Doctors are hesitant to perform a potentially irreversible surgery on someone statistically likely to change their mind about it later because society refuses to hold those men accountable for their earlier decision.

It's not the mind changing that's the problem, it's the passing the buck. It's the "it's not my fault I'm infertile, it's the doctor's fault for listening to me when I told him I wanted to be infertile."



The simple fact is that more young men interested in a vasectomy are going to end up middle-aged men interested in a vasectomy reversal than not. The tragedy is not that people change their minds. That's their inherent right. If I decide that starting tomorrow I want to be a fireman, I've got the right to shoot for that.

What I don't have is the right to blame someone else for my bad decisions.

There's no such thing as "mind changers", they were simply fence sitters or not ready for kyds at the time that they made the decision for sterilization, but were never really "CF". I don't think that they should have ANY grounds for a lawsuit, based on their voluntary infertility.

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kidlesskim
There's no such thing as "mind changers", they were simply fence sitters or not ready for kyds at the time that they made the decision for sterilization, but were never really "CF". I don't think that they should have ANY grounds for a lawsuit, based on their voluntary infertility.

It was their choice to begin with. If they really weren't childfree, they shouldn't have had the procedure.

Because they no longer have a mind...they changed it into something else, like turnips or something.

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Acme
Because they no longer have a mind...they changed it into something else, like turnips or something.

Maybe when they're married to a woman who wants kids, then they change. Men are weak is they change for a woman who wants him to change on this issue.

Yep, Stupid is what I'd call it to. I suspect women do this shit more than men, but I have nothing to back that up. I think that is probably why women have to jump through so many hoops to get their tubes tied, because of the high incidents of mind changing. It just shouldn't be allowed, don't they know this is a PERMANENT form of birth control, not designed to be reversed?? Dumbasses!

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PS
Yep, Stupid is what I'd call it to. I suspect women do this shit more than men, but I have nothing to back that up. I think that is probably why women have to jump through so many hoops to get their tubes tied, because of the high incidents of mind changing. It just shouldn't be allowed, don't they know this is a PERMANENT form of birth control, not designed to be reversed?? Dumbasses!

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

I really think anyone seeking sterilization should be made to sign a waiver stating that, in the event they change their mind, they will not pursue legal action against the doctor who did the surgery, any doctor who tries to reverse the surgery and fails, or the hospital. The ones who are likely to change their minds will raise a stink about such a waiver...those who know they want to be sterile forever won't (I don't think they would anyway).

I think it's put into a lot of guys' heads that, because vasectomies *can* be reversed, they are just a form of long-term, but temporary birth control. I don't see nearly as much information on vasectomy reversal failure rates as I do about the ability to have a vas reversed. And CF West is right...some guys might actually want to remain sterile, but their wives might want to have kids and some of these guys weaken under that pressure and get it reversed for her.

Regardless, it makes it painfully difficult for people who are serious about never having kids to get sterilized, and it should not be this hard to have a doctor perform the surgery. I seriously don't think people get refused for any other surgery nearly as much as those looking for a vasectomy or a tubal.

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Cambion
I seriously don't think people get refused for any other surgery nearly as much as those looking for a vasectomy or a tubal.

Well there's other surgeries that probably get more rejection, but the point is valid - you're FAR more likely to be rejected for the sterilization surgery than the reversal. I've never heard of anyone getting rejected for a reversal.

But things like gender re-assignment and the various stomach reduction surgeries have a pretty high rejection rate too.

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Konkurrent

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Cambion
I seriously don't think people get refused for any other surgery nearly as much as those looking for a vasectomy or a tubal.

Well there's other surgeries that probably get more rejection, but the point is valid - you're FAR more likely to be rejected for the sterilization surgery than the reversal. I've never heard of anyone getting rejected for a reversal.

But things like gender re-assignment and the various stomach reduction surgeries have a pretty high rejection rate too.

Many of us who asked for sterilization at a young ago (in my case, 22 or 23) are rejected by some grandfatherly old bastard who tells us we are too young to make that decision.

Yes, I know this.

But my point is that this has less to do with people who get sterilized and then later want it reversed and more to do with people who have kids assuming that everyone else in the would absolutely must be like them.

It isn't the people who change their minds that are the "bad guys" here, and it's completely unnecessary for anyone to vehemently demonize everyone who isn't staunchly CF. There are good parents out there.

I hate kids. Don't want to raise 'em, don't want to see 'em, don't want to smell 'em. But I'm not taking the crazy radical position of saying that there should be no children at all because that's stupid. And when someone comes here and spits venom of such an all-encompassing nature, I'm going to call them on it.

Here's the thing in a nutshell. If you want to have the right to be CF respected you have to respect the rights of people to not be CF. Kids or no kids is a choice. We can either be free to make that choice - either way - or not free and have one side or the other enforced. It's like religion. As nice as it would be to be able to prevent people from making what you think is the wrong choice, you can't do that without sacrificing the right to make your own choice.

And what this guy is missing is that we, necessarily, draw a clear and distinct line between the good and the bad members of society that choose to reproduce. A few of them are responsible, effective, and nurturing parents. Unfortunately many more are retarded, inattentive breeders.

As a result there's a wide distinction in the results - the offspring themselves. Children are not evil and they're not even bad for society. In fact this world would tear itself apart if we had no children. Some kids are raised well and don't greatly annoy those of us who don't want kids ourselves because they've been taught how to behave within public appropriately. The other brats are the ones we come here to complain about (along with their braying parents).




If this middle ground can't be found and used we're no better than the breeders on the moo boards.

The nice thing about this forum is that the gamut IS the standard- everything from "can do without them" to "fucking hate them." Screw the middle ground.

With all due disrespect, there can't BE a "gamut" without a "middle ground".

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I call "stupid".

Vasectomy is permanent a doctor will say this when a person seeks it. Tubals are permanent, and a person will be informed of this as well. Most people know the meaning of the word "permanent". Thusly, if a person gets a vasectomy or tubal, and then decides later on that they want that permanent procedure reversed, for whatever reason, and it doesn't work out, they should have NO GROUNDS for a law suit.

I think of it like a voluntary amputation, because it is. If I REALLY REALLY want my leg cut off right now, and manage to find a doctor to do it, I'm not going to have a leg to stand on if I want to have it reattached at a later date. Yes, that pun was intentional.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

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Feh
I call "stupid".

Vasectomy is permanent a doctor will say this when a person seeks it. Tubals are permanent, and a person will be informed of this as well. Most people know the meaning of the word "permanent". Thusly, if a person gets a vasectomy or tubal, and then decides later on that they want that permanent procedure reversed, for whatever reason, and it doesn't work out, they should have NO GROUNDS for a law suit.

I think of it like a voluntary amputation, because it is. If I REALLY REALLY want my leg cut off right now, and manage to find a doctor to do it, I'm not going to have a leg to stand on if I want to have it reattached at a later date. Yes, that pun was intentional.

I hope vasectomies are 100% effective for young men (20-24). At least people here understand.

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CF West
I hope vasectomies are 100% effective for young men (20-24). At least people here understand.

Vasectomies are not 100% effective for anyone except the cadavers medical students practice on. There is always a chance that it will either not work to begin with, or spontaneously reverse down the road. These chances aren't very high, but only a fool would consider a vasectomy a 100% guarantee of no kids down the road. 99.99999%, sure. But there's always the chance.

That's why part of the continuing care is to get yourself tested every so often.

Once you've had it done, and you've come back for your check-ups and they've verified you infertile, then yeah you can consider it essentially baby-proof. But the only way to never, ever, EVER initiate a pregnancy is to never have heterosexual sex. That's a major part of the reason that most people consider CF to be incompatible with Pro-Life. If you can't pull the trigger on an abortion you're not 100% committed to being CF unless you're abstinent (or exclusively homosexual).