I think I've been wasting my time in college

I'm not trying to steal attention away from MWR, I promise. I also didn't want to thread-jack.

I had a pretty harsh realization today...I finally realized that while I can draw well and have decent design skills, I am completely lacking in creativity. Most artists can tell you that a crappy design can be saved by a creative idea, but beautiful design can't always make up for a lame idea. Often when I have class with certain instructors (ones who I know will challenge me), I find I spend a long time thinking up ideas that I personally think are amazing and wonderfully creative...and then when I get a critique from my instructor, I find out my ideas are mediocre at best.

I just feel like I've had the rug ripped out from underneath me. Why the hell has it taken me three years to realize this? Have I really wasted the last three years of my life pursuing a career field in which I will never actually be successful? I want to be that artist that makes beautiful and creative designs that people remember, but I just don't think I ever will be since I lack a key component all successful artists have.

A better question is this...how the hell have I managed to do so well in art school when I'm not creative? I have a 3.5 GPA, I'm in the National Technical Honor Society and I'm a semester away from graduation; the dropout rate during the first year is incredible here. Have I managed to get by on just drawing skills and not good ideas? I feel like I haven't achieved anything because I just seem to not have that creative drive other students have. I've seen incredible student work that utilizes amazing ideas and design, and it makes me feel like I don't belong here because I say to myself, "I could never think of something that great".

Part of me want to just drop out because this realization has just made me incredibly ill, and I feel like I'm wasting my time here. I've dreamed of being an artist my whole life and now I feel like my dream has just been totally shattered. But I also feel like I need to graduate so I can bring the last three years of trying to an appropriate close (and because I will never hear the end of it from my mother if I drop out now). I just don't know what to do...I don't even know if I want to get my master's anymore. All this time I have been so confident in myself and my abilities, and now I just don't see myself being the artist I always wanted to be. I can't learn to be creative if I'm not to begin with.

those that can do, those that cant teach, those that cant do that become critics.

take no notice of them.

there is nothing wrong with what you do. what you are. the super creatives burn out, a few years of work then nothing. you will be able to keep doing it.

does the art you do make you happy, thats the only thing you need care about.

some teachers use that as a goad to push you into doing things. its wrong.

so does it make you happy. if yes then keep doing it. ignore everyone else. i bet picasso was told he was rubbish, didnt have any creativity. and what do teachers know. if they really knew their stuff they would be doing it not teaching it.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

"....Often when I have class with certain instructors (ones who I know will challenge me), I find I spend a long time thinking up ideas that I personally think are amazing and wonderfully creative...and then when I get a critique from my instructor, I find out my ideas are mediocre at best...."



Maybe your ideas are creative, but the particular instructors who you find challenging are prone to judge more harshly. It could also be that you are trying too hard to think up ideas that are amazing, when it's more likely that the first one(s) that came to you with ease were probably better. Judging another person's artistic creativity is also a very subjective thing, but since you have made it this far and have an excellent record and impressive accomplishments and grades, I think it would be HIGHLY unlikely if you were not a creative artist. Like you mentioned, the drop out rate early on is high and you are almost at the finish line. After the pressure is off to graduate you will probably be amazed at how suddenly you will become even more creative. Maybe it's kind of like writer's block when ideas flow through a creative writer's mind one right after the other, UNTIL he has a paper due in ten days. Then, he may sit and stare at a blank screen for DAYS on end. I think that you ought to finish out the last semester and worry about your creativity after you have had a break for a while. JMO

you answered your own question, you are talented, more talented than most, you have a higher score than almost anyone, so take no notice.

school is not real life, its teaching you how to do things, you just need to find your path, once you have that qualification. the pressure of school of other things, once you have that over you will be able to do great things i know this.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Cambion,
My first 4 year degree was a Bachelors of Fine Art in Photography. I also am not creative, but there was a nitch for me because I was more of a technical person. In my case it was Medical photography. You know, all those medical books need photos of all kinds of gory things. So, I made it work for me. Is there a more technical area you can look into? It sounds like your competent in that. I'd hate for you to have to go right to teaching, because many of the instructors that I had were the artsy fartsy kind and fell into the category of those who can't, teach. There are always a few instructors that don't fall into that category tho, I think, but so many do.

So, look into other areas and see if there is something like that available.
PS

I absolutely will not teach...I don't feel comfortable being the center of attention, plus I would not be comfortable being in charge of educating others. I have already decided on that. Personally I prefer illustration, which is what I do for my regular client all the time. That's actually what program I wanted to pursue an MFA in - there's a school near my hometown that offers a master's in illustration, but I just worry I will waste my time there. The class I was in today that felt like a kick in the balls was advanced illustration too. I don't by any means want to be coddled and told everything I do looks great - I want to learn what I'm doing wrong. The only thing is I don't know if it's things I can actually fix.

Kim, sometimes it is kind of like writer's block. I drive myself mad trying to think of something, staring at my sketchbook endlessly, and then near either the end of class or a deadline, I might come up with something really neat. I did that today...I sat and stared into space for what felt like ages and when there was 45 minutes left in class, I drew up 10 thumbnails one right after the other without putting a whole lot of thought into them.

I do like my artwork usually, but I don't want to be known as the girl who has lame ideas. I'm seriously wondering if I even needed to go to college or if I could have just improved my skills on my own.

theres several tricks i do when i am blocked. i doodle. i draw weird creatures, with one eye or 5, you are trying to force yourself.

you need to distract your brain from work. going to college is never a waste. you have learned other things havent you.

i write stories, you have seen them, i write poems, take what they teach, learn from it but go your own way.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

My sister is a portrait photographer. She works in one of the specialized divisions of Lifetouch, the highest selling and most artistic division. She often thinks that she's a mediocre photographer, and she's totally wrong about her own talent. She's far too self-critical of her work. She's won several awards from corporate, been promoted a few times, made people cry from the sheer beauty of the portrait and she still doesn't think she's any good.

You're your own worst critic. Every good artist is. Don't sweat it, just finish your degree and find something in your field that you really enjoy. Or take college as a learning experience and find something outside your education that you like. Education is never, ever a waste.

Cambion, I think you should definitely finish the semester and graduate. Some of what you might be feeling right now is the pressure that school coursework and projects can put on a person over time. Right now, you've been with the same classmates and the same instructors for almost four years now, and in a competitive situation, that's a long time together. As you've already mentioned, some of your instructors might be pushing you hard because they do think you've got what it takes to be successful. After you graduate, you can then reflect on what you were feeling in your final semester, and the career implications of what that might mean for you long-term, but please, hang in there. What's good about your situation is that you already have picked up some commissioned work and have an idea of what's expected of someone working in the field. If you decide to go to graduate school or not is another issue for another time, but once you've completed your undergrad degree, you can put it on your resume forever--and, that in itself, shows to any prospective employer that you finish what you start.

Consider going into a specialty that's more about skill and less about creativity. A "craft" rather than an "art' so to speak.

I have a college degree in art, and although it may sound harsh, the reality is that if you don't have the creative skills to keep turning out new original work day after day after day, your self esteem will get lower and lower and lower. I'm not criticizing anyone else who has responded, because I know they want to reassure you of your talent, but you know that you don't have it, it's good you're facing that reality now.

Jewelry making, stained glass, textiles, website design... one of these things may be for you- still allowing you to use your design skills without requiring constant creativity. If you're designing a ring and you can come up with just ONE good design (and many aspects of the form are a given), you can make the finished product 100 times and sell each as "original" work. I doubt that painting the exact same picture 100 times would be as well received.

Cambion,

I am a graphic designer myself.

Having been in art classes and the like before I can tell you, without a doubt, that the instructors you are working with make it their mission in life to be critical and make you feel like crap. Believe me, nothing you do will ever be good enough to please another artist. But that does NOT mean you are no good! Art and design are EXTREMELY subjective. Judging by your stellar GPA you HAVE to be doing something right, so please don't despair. You wouldn't be getting such great grades if you were beyond hope.

One of my graphic design professors at school (who NEVER liked my work,by the way), told us a story once: One of HER instructors at art school would have the class do an assignment. After a week, when the assignment was due, he would have them hang their work up on the blackboard. He would then come into the room, RIP ALL THE ARTWORK DOWN AND STOMP ON IT. No lie. This is what she and her classmates had to put up with. Like I said, these people are compelled to be extremely critical.

Oh, and the reason my instructor never liked my work: It was never because I wasn't any good (I was a practically all "A" student like you). It was just because my work was never like HER work...I worked in a very different style than she did, and it simply didn't appeal to her. So, again, we're talking about major subjectivity here.

Don't give up!!!

Your self-knowledge and honesty will serve you well in the long run. I used to write art reviews for a magazine and the sheer number of "professional" artists around town who turned out poor work was simply staggering. I mean, not even TECHNICALLY good work, much less that extra "sparkle" of brilliance. You are already way ahead of the type of artist who writes pure-D shite in their overblown artist's statement while churning out....crap. So I commend you on that.

HOWEVER. 1. Please do finish your degree--no one will ever be able to take that achievement away from you. 2. I LOVE mercurior's advice. So few people even have the opportunity to work in a field they enjoy. If you like it, ignore the naysayers. If you enjoy your work and the process, even if you don't think it's as good as others' work, keep at it. Just like the medical photographer above, if you follow your love, something will come along to you which you might not even be able to guess right now. Good luck to you--you're in the home stretch now.

What everybody else said and a "YOU GO, GIRL!" Hey, at least you had the guts to go to art school and you're doing great. Now stop it with the self doubt and finish what you started! In the words of my favorite Ren, "You can doooo eeet, mahn!"

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. I feel a little better about this whole thing...I just hope I can get out of this funk soon so I can regain the microscopic bit of confidence I had in myself before. :chug

There's honestly lots of stuff I'd like to do with my degree...I've been trained in many areas during my stay here, and I'd love to do things like photo retouching, life drawing, illustration, Flash design, web design, or t-shirt design. I just really want that one good idea so I can take it and just fly with it. I look up to artists like Jhonen Vasquez, Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird and Scott Rasoomair...guys who all are famous for their own comic cartoon creations. I would love to be like that, although I know it's a one in a billion chance that I'd be in any way famous from comic books.

Hopefully I can get out of my funk soon...midterms are coming up in about a week and I don't want to be depressed with looming deadlines.

so you have learned lots of art skills, i would kill to be able to draw.

i have the ideas and imagination, but i cannot get past that line that says brain, hand do what brain wants. i find it hard to do anything getting it out of my brain.

look at scott addam, and dilbert, simple art. yet he is famous, (and since he is cf as well)..

these comic artists, i bet they were told the same as you, i am my own worst critic too, i have deleted so many stories and poems, because they werent good enough. but others have read them and thought they were wonderful.

you probably are scared about the exams, and that does bring out a lot of self doubt. you know you have the support of us all on this board to do whatever you wish.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I'm with the others when they say don't give up.

I got an honors degree in Art (cum laude), and yes along the way they knock you down constantly. All I can say to that is: get used to it. I've seen so many good art students leave the field out of discouragement. Know what? Think of that as 'thinning the herd'. Those students were never committed to the discipline if they leave it so easily. Stick with it and you'll see what I mean over the course of time.

Here are some tips that could help. I don't know your body of work, so please don't take it personally. It's more the kind of thing you learn in your post-grad years, but personally I think it ought to be Day One stuff because it does relate to originality which is hard to capture. Most art students, if I'm honest, are grossly unoriginal whilst they are developing their craft and their eye. But then they come to the stage -- sounds like you're there now -- when they are ready. They wake up and want to put their craft to work for them in an original fashion.

Tips.

1) Never produce anything that has already been done a million times before. (see 'trite' below)

2) What are you communicating in each piece? What is it saying? It has a voice -- can you hear it? Is the voice interesting and meaningful? Or is it boring, irrelevant, annoying, weak, or -- worst of all -- silent?

3) Develop taste. I mean really, really, good taste. Everyone likes to think they have good taste, but by definition most people do not. Depending on whether you live country or city, you're going to have to reach outside your environment in some way to achieve this. Buy edgy magazines like The Face, Creative Review or Wallpaper. Read them cover to cover and read them again. Read 'The Art of Looking Sideways'. Get books on contemporary artists like Carsten Holler, Paul McCarthy, Rachel Whiteread, Sam Taylor-Wood, Frank Gehry, Banksy even. See what the artists are doing today. Then go back and get books on older 20th C artists like Dine, Hockney, Johns, Frank, Close, Reilly, Dwiggins, etc. Read 'em and know 'em. Then go back and get books on movements -- Googie, Modernism, Brutalism, Bauhaus, Deco/Nouveau, etc. See how it all fits together. Some of these things will seriously grab you, some will not. But you need to know them through and through.

4) Avoid trite. Avoid cliche. Avoid cute. Avoid dull. Avoid try-hard. These are all things which are visually irritating. Once you accomplish number 3 above, you'll genuinely know when something is trite, cliche, cute, dull, and try-hard. Generally, anything that has become popularised is quite silly looking and in poor taste -- avoid: Posters of Marilyn Monroe and James Dean. Anything Warhol because people don't get it that he was commenting on consumerism and factory-art. Anything 1950s. Anything with animals in it (generally) -- ie dogs playing poker and shooting pool. Anything on greeting cards. Anything passe. Anything manga or comic-book (they have their own masters and don't need any amateurs). Anything religious. Anything Elvis. Anything that's closely following old masters, particularly anything pre-raphaelite.

5) Don't forget your basic rules of design: negative/positive space, pattern, repetition, echo, balance/imbalance, theme, focus, foreground/background, structure and priorities -- and more, like surprise. Your composition must be great at all times.

Hope that helps. Good luck. It really can be done, believe me.

CAPTCHA: buyed

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

C - I PM'd you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thx. now resuming normal programming.

From the sound of your list, Amethyst, I think I've done an okay job of avoiding the trite stuff. I still make comics, but they are for personal satisfaction only (although I am doing a comic for a client currently :chug). One of my main influences is Patrick Nagel - I loved the simple color palette he uses and I often use flat colors in my vector pieces. I don't exactly copy his style, but I am influenced by it. Here's an example of mixing his style and mine:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii119/DarkCambion/fourpanels.jpg

Sadly, my best ideas are found either the day before a deadline or when it's 4 in the morning and I'm exhausted or I have one of my random bursts of energy and I'm hyper. I can't count how many 'flashes of genius' I've had at the ass-crack of dawn. I tend to bury my head in my instructor's copies of Communication Arts every week to find inspiration, from which I usually find five or six interesting artists to research. Some of the artists you mentioned I have never heard of, so I will definitely look into those.

Quote
Cambion
From the sound of your list, Amethyst, I think I've done an okay job of avoiding the trite stuff. I still make comics, but they are for personal satisfaction only (although I am doing a comic for a client currently :chug). One of my main influences is Patrick Nagel - I loved the simple color palette he uses and I often use flat colors in my vector pieces. I don't exactly copy his style, but I am influenced by it. Here's an example of mixing his style and mine:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii119/DarkCambion/fourpanels.jpg

Sadly, my best ideas are found either the day before a deadline or when it's 4 in the morning and I'm exhausted or I have one of my random bursts of energy and I'm hyper. I can't count how many 'flashes of genius' I've had at the ass-crack of dawn. I tend to bury my head in my instructor's copies of Communication Arts every week to find inspiration, from which I usually find five or six interesting artists to research. Some of the artists you mentioned I have never heard of, so I will definitely look into those.

Thomas Edison used to keep a cot in his office/lab so whenever he woke up or was up half the night with one of his suddenly genius ideas, he would be near his journals and lab to work on it. I swear I believe that's what motivated him to invent the lightbulb, just so he could see better at night to document or work on one of his several thousand other genius ideas.:bdid We will never know how many "non creative" ideas that classic artists, brilliant scientists, musical genius', and gifted writers had before, during, and after they created the timeless masterpieces that they are known for today. Don't forget the part about "creativity" being subjective either. There have been many Olympian Gold medalists who could have JUST as easily placed bronze had a different set of judges been on the panel the day that he performed. Many people thought that Bette Davis should have been Scarlette O'hara and she may have been if another director had been casting Gone with the Wind. One (or more) subjective opinion (s) doesn't make it a fact, necessarily.

I was shipped off to more, more, more college when I could've had started my cartooning career in my twenties.

Instead, I was stuck in school with a whole bunch of teensprogs while pushing 30, no thanks to my condescending parents and of course, my hearing impairment.

So my life is already ruined and I'm still trying to get back on the track a few years shy of 40.=P

i never thought i was smart enough to go to university, (plus financial concerns at that time), i wish i had gone then, but i couldnt go now, i know more about how the world really works, than so many of these young kids. i compromised i worked in a college.

get what you can while you can, education is never a waste. (a lot of the classmates will be a waste).

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

You should definitely finish your degree. After that, you can go for a master's degree in any field, or you can get graduate certificates in continuing ed in any field, or you can go get another bachelor's degree in anything and you only have to take the required courses for that major. If you let your undergrad program get old without graduating and you want to go back later, courses sometimes expire or won't transfer if too much time has passed. Also (not that it matters much in this economy and job-market), many jobs just require that you have a degree in SOMETHING because it's a way of proving that you are able to start something and finish it over a substantial period of time (that you are not a "quitter").

If you want to invest in training that you will DEFINITELY have job security, nursing is the way to go. However, it's not for everyone of course.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

Thanks for the example -- yes you've definitely got the skill going on, which is very good news and it means you've got a future in the field.

Do you get a sense that you need to 'bust out', though? To be a bit less careful and studied -- not so much thinking and planning -- and a bit more impulsive? The word most critics and scholars use is 'immediacy', which is referring to being 'of the moment'. Something with a lot of immediacy has a lot of visual energy which is evident in the strokes, the expressions, the postures and compositions. Immediacy is attention-grabbing -- it looks like the thing is going to bounce off the page or screen and jump up and down slapping you. It's the apparent energy that attracts the eye, rivets the attention and makes people take notice. Immediacy needs to be succinct, though. A really good example of immediate illustration would be if you googled the official site for UK street artist Banksy. He's fun and he's funny. He employs stencils, freehand drawings, lettering and xerox transfers to get his ideas across. He's a master of the craft. And it's all about his original ideas -- everything has a meaning, a purpose, and all of his elements have a 'job to do'.

www.gestalten.com is also a great resource. Have a dig through and compare what's on there with where you are now and where you want to be. Each artist shown there has his/her style, but the one thing they all have in common is the original ideas they have pursued with their craft. They chose interesting moments to capture, or fascinating combinations of things, or really trippy ideas.

I think what I'm getting at is don't try to think-through originality. Thinking-through originality is what is making it elusive. Get a hold of inspirational design magazines and books (go European, it's a lot less predictable than American design) -- ingest your material, let simmer for a few days, a few weeks, a few months, and the ideas will begin to spark!

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Amethyst,

Honestly,yes, I do feel like I want to bust out of my shell. A lot of my best works were the result of being impulsive...that image I linked to actually was just me screwing around with Illustrator, hence all the random background objects (which I am a big fan of trippy backgrounds, as opposed to realistic ones). I was working on another image for my project that was more contrived that I was having a difficult time with, but I got really far into the screw-around project and realized it was looking great in terms of design and color, so I tossed out the first project and decided to work on my "for fun" idea. I still think it's my best piece so far.

I want to really learn to be more impulsive, break the rules a little more and apply that to my art. My problem is I always think way too much when it comes to deadlines, and sometimes even when I'm drawing for fun. I still haven't learned that I have never come up with great ideas when straining my brain. Usually being tired or hyper allows me to be more impulsive, which is why my best ideas arrive at four in the morning or in the midst of a sugar high, or even when I'm just not even thinking about whatever project I have to do. I wish I could control this sometimes

When it comes right down to it, all college really does is prepare you to deal with difficult people. My mother used to tell me that I wouldn't have to deal with jackasses once I got a job with a real education. Specifically, it went like this:

I waited until I was four years out of high school before going back to college full-time. In the mean-time, I worked in retail, primarily as a custom picture-framer. When I would bitch to my mother about something that happened at work, she would say in a really condescending tone of voice, "WELL. At THAT level, what do you expect?" Implying that if I went to COLLEGE, I would only have to deal with other EDUCATED people, who would not be so insecure as to undermine my DIGNITY.

Lo and behold, I finally finished college, during which time (and subsequently) I discovered something even more formidable than the flunky-jackass-on-a-power-trip: the educated-insecure-ego-maniac.

So you see, it's the same shit everywhere, but with that piece of paper, you have more options available to you. (I was going to say "choices" instead of "options", but the C-word is being used in a not-so-positive way on another thread).

I think that the instructors that are bringing you down are probably jaded and burnt-out but keep doing what they do because of the easy paycheck.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu