Treatment for infertility = unethical? What do the rest of you think?

In the wake of Octomom's saga in California, I'd like to see the ethical debate expand to cover all treatments to correct infertility.

In December 2007 we discussed here the comments an academic in Australia made. He said that it made no sense for some countries to encourage childbearing with tax incentives and government giveaways as others such as China saw a need to limit reproduction by coercion. He called for Australia to quit subsidizing reproduction, citing the population pressures worldwide and saying that Oz needed to look at the larger picture. That goes double for medical treatment for the infertile or to help those such as Octomom to have even more children. In the meantime, children languish in foster care and orphanages worldwide.

With 6.7 billion people in the world and the serious questions that result about resource depletion, loss of wildlife habitat, and pollution, I submit that medical intervention to correct infertility is unethical.

What say the rest of you?

Amen. Totally unethical imo.

This whole species has gone into lala-land.

I do not think there is any reprieve for the breeder mentality, period.

Even if a plague comes along and wipes out 90%, then the breeder mentaility will REALLY be with us... (of course, it helped set up the scenario in the first place.)

I could say more, but I totally concur.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

It is absolutely unethical!

There are so many unwanted children-in the US and abroad. If someone truly wants to have a child, they should adopt one of the children tossed aside by their birth parents. It is alarming how many infertile couples will spend huge amounts of money, etc. to have "a child of their own." Please. Those thousands of dollars in treatments could have been used to feed a village. We as a society need to stop thinking of our wants & take a look around us.

Oh, but I'm the selfish one for not bringing another human into this world. I forgot.

In my perfect world. there would be NO fertility assistance for anyone or for any reason either indirectly or directly which would include of course IVF, drugs, sterilization reversals, hormone shots for fertility purposes, donated eggs/sperm for implantation artficially by ANY method, surrogate mothers, etc........In addition, I don't think that extaordinary measures should be taken to bring otherwise terminally ill, missing brains, two headed, attached at the tops of the heads, horrific and uncorrectable birth defects, etc..........baybees to full term either. I also think that after two live births it should be mandatory sterilization ACROSS THE BOARD regardless of race, religion, gender,income, etc....... with no exceptions. If they have twins or triplets the first time then they are done making baybees. If they are on welfare, regardless of how many kyds they currently have, MANDATORY sterilization. I think that it should be this way until there are ZERO children in foster care or orphanages anywhere in the world. If they truly only want a child to love, then there are already plenty who are awaiting adoption. :fmbl



This business of sparing no expense to create "one of their own" is the epitome of a selfish me me me society. I find it amusing that THE most selfish people in the world, people who want SELF replicants and no other baybee will suffice unless he shares their precious DNA, can even begin to just waltz past the unwanted kiddie in the window and call the CF selfish. It truly blows my mind that they can't see just how deeply selfish that they really are, but I suppose that they are SO selfish that they must believe that they are incapable of BEING selfish and feel that they are beyond reproach.

I have always felt that nature's "failure" to provide offspring was intentional.

i beleive in nature knows best.

if it deems this genetic code is wrong thats why infertility is made (its also a loop back to sustainability more infertiles means less population in the next gen. so it should be a self repairing sytem. unfortunatly people assume if we can do things we should)

diseases that cause infertility much have been needed by nature to stop overbreeding. look at locusts, look at lemmings.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

It's unethical from the standpoint that we have better things to do, as a society, to improve the lives of those who are already here than to piss away all that money and time and effort making new beings for people who are unsuitable for having them.

I can't believe we have a society where individuals who are physically unfit to reproduce -- but who waaaaant to -- cheerfully march right past those people sitting in wheelchairs and lying in gurneys and beds, dying of horrible diseases or suffering from unfathomable chronic conditions. If I believed in hell then I'd want them to be the first to rot in it.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

I think it's unethical on EVERY level there could possibly be. Financial being the main one.

Many of you know I am NOT a religious person by any stretch of the imaignation, but it chaps my ass when the fundies bleat on about "GAWD's will" and all that holy horseshit yet turn around and use fertility drugs.

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Amethyst
It's unethical from the standpoint that we have better things to do, as a society, to improve the lives of those who are already here than to piss away all that money and time and effort making new beings for people who are unsuitable for having them.

I agree. IVF treatments are nothing less than just the most dramatic and selfish plastic surgery of all, IMO. Instead of a new nose, you get a new mini-me, when as others have said scores of children are adoptable, not to mention animals in shelters, not to mention hundreds of other ways to be a mentor to/volunteer for kids if you want to be around kids.

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clematis

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Amethyst
It's unethical from the standpoint that we have better things to do, as a society, to improve the lives of those who are already here than to piss away all that money and time and effort making new beings for people who are unsuitable for having them.

I agree. IVF treatments are nothing less than just the most dramatic and selfish plastic surgery of all, IMO. Instead of a new nose, you get a new mini-me, when as others have said scores of children are adoptable, not to mention animals in shelters, not to mention hundreds of other ways to be a mentor to/volunteer for kids if you want to be around kids.

This.
And well...NO ONE DIES FROM NOT MAKING A BABY.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Unethical and selfish as hell.

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I have always felt that nature's "failure" to provide offspring was intentional.

Me, too. Nature always knows best. Man is constantly battling nature...he has no chance of winning.

Here's turning things around. Imagine backstreet IVF clinics, once they're made illegal. Desperate cows who have no life and are hungry for the attention that only having a baby can bring... disguising themselves and disappearing round corners and thru alleyways... finding a certain door and knocking on it, an ugly old crone answers... and being placed on a greasy stained table with their legs hoisted into the air so that their tubes can be cleared with strange instruments ("stop crying, you want to be put into this situation don't you?!"), and then injected with some kind of random sperm ("quit complaining, it was fresh this morning I'll have you know!")... mwah-ha-ha-ha!

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Say what you will about Christian fundamentalists, but I have an old friend who is one and thoroughly believes if God wants her to have a child, it will happen the natural way or no way. She has one daughter and it was a difficult pregnancy. I'm pretty sure she and her husband haven't taken any precautions to prevent another pregnancy, but it's not happening. And she will not partake of fertility treatments to try to force it, either.

Amen to that. I don't like the idea of tinkering with nature. I also wouldn't be surprised if they eventually prove a link between fertility treatments and cancer. It's just not right.

No.

What IS needed is enough brains to REALIZE that there's too many of us, that there are lots of kids without families or homes, and that baybees are NOT meant to be cuddly, lovable TROPHIES to indulge in, to show off, or to feed the maternal ego. AND humbly accept these hard facts, too.

If not, stricter regulations should be added to turn away herds of hungry, airheaded moo-wannabes. (LIKE adoption, ironically!)

Too bad most people are pretty selfish and materialistic.

Unethical? Most definitely! I do think it had ought to be illegal. The planet is pushing 7 billion people. Who in their right mind would think more is a good idea? In this day and age, anyone who squirts out more kids is selfish to such a degree that I daresay they should be publicly humiliated and forced to have an abortion. Or be stoned. Take your pick.

Not only that, but if you have the money to piss away on fertility treatments, then I think you probably have the money to pay the exorbitant fees for adopting a child that already exists.

I also don't buy the constant excuses of, "I could never love a child that didn't come from me". It's nothing but pathetic attempt at some twisted sort of moral justification for their blatant selfishness and shallowness. Even if I did believe it, what does that really say about them, as people? I sure as hell don't want to see people like that raising kids.

You know, a large part of me condones eugenics. Sure, one can say, "where does it stop?" That's true. It can be taken too far. But that question can go both ways. Dammit all, look at the kinds of people we have breeding! Surely we shouldn't just stand idly by and let it happen?! It would really be for the good of the rest of us to put a stop to it. Every time I hear of or see someone going on about their "precious little miracle", my hackles get raised. Yeah, you just shat out another unnecessary human being to suck away money, air, space, food and other resources from the rest of us. Remind me again where the miracle is?

Yes because there is more chance a kid produced from fertility treatments will be unhealthy. How can you do that to a baybee?

Otherwise, I think if you can afford the treatments and you can afford to look after the kids without using tax payer's/other people's money then it's okay. (But this is rarely the case.)

I'm in the camp that believes if nature intended it to be so, it will be. Otherwise, don't fuck with Mother Nature. If you want a kyd that badly, then adopt one.

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- The human gene pool could use a little chlorine

For some insane reason, I love the idea of back alley IVF clinics.

One could scam make a lot of money that way.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me