italy is jsut as bad (coma woman puts italian gov in crisis)

Italy faces constitutional crisis over coma womanMichael Day in Rome The Observer, Sunday 8 February 2009 Article history
Car accident victim Eluana Englaro, who has been in a coma for 16 years, poses in an undated family photo in Lecco. Photograph: Reuters

The Italian government has been plunged into a constitutional crisis over the fate of a 38-year-old woman who has been in a coma for the past 17 years. Eluana Englaro was left in a vegetative state after a car crash in 1992. After a decade-long court battle, doctors reduced her nutrition on Friday in preparation for removing her feeding tubes, which her father claims would be in accordance with her wishes.

But in an extraordinary turn of events, the country's prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, after consultation with the Vatican, has issued an emergency decree stating that food and water cannot be suspended for any patient depending upon them, reversing the earlier court ruling. On issuing the emergency decree, Berlusconi declared: "This is murder. I would be failing to rescue her. I'm not a Pontius Pilate."

Justifying his campaign to save Englaro's life, the prime minister added that, physically at least, she was "in the condition to have babies", a remark described by La Stampa newspaper as "shocking". Giorgio Napolitano, Italy's president, has refused to sign the decree, but if it is ratified by the Italian parliament doctors may be obliged to resume the feeding of Eluana early this week.

But, in a moving interview with the Observer, Eluana's father Beppino said last week that the doctors were carrying out his daughter's wishes by allowing her to die. "If she couldn't be what she was (before the accident in 1992) then she would not have wanted to live".

The case has deeply divided Italian society and raised concerns over the influence of the Vatican. Yesterday Pope Benedict indirectly referred to Englaro in a message delivered to mark the World Day of the Sick, stating that society had a duty to defend "the absolute and supreme dignity of every human being" even when "weak and shrouded in the mystery of suffering". But even some of Berlusconi's political allies, including the president of the lower house of parliament, Gianfranco Fini, have stated that the supreme court ruling should be obeyed and Englaro should be allowed to die.

Opposition leader Walter Veltroni, of the centre-left Democratic party, said the government should leave the Englaro family in peace and warned that Berlusconi's intervention "could cause a very dangerous constitutional crisis". Last night demonstrations in support of Eluana's right to die and the supreme court ruling were taking place across Italy.

Meanwhile, doctors are continuing to act according to the original supreme court ruling. On Friday morning in the La Quiete clinic in Udine, northern Italy, they began reducing the amount of food in Eluana Englaro's feeding tube, according to a precise medical protocol that will see nutrition gradually replaced with sedative and anti-convulsant medication. Experts say that within four to five days her condition may have deteriorated to an irreversible extent, though it might be two weeks or more before her heart stops. The process means the Englaro family and their doctors are now in a race against time as they try to end Eluana's life before the Berlusconi government and its backers in the Vatican halt the process.

Beppino, 67, was last night in the family home in Lecco, 30 miles north of Milan, caring for his wife and Eluana's mother, Saturna, who is gravely ill with cancer. After a long, agonising fight to allow his daughter to die, he described the government's last-ditch attempts as "a grotesque attack on my family".

Prior to issuing the decree, Berlusconi was involved in frantic telephone exchanges with the Vatican head of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who implored the prime minister to prevent Eluana's death. The cardinal reportedly told Berlusconi: "We have to stop this crime against humanity."

Doctors have confirmed that, after 17 years and with such catastrophic brain damage, Eluana will never regain consciousness or awareness. The anaesthetist caring for her, Professor Antonio de Monte, said: "Eluana died 17 years ago."

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

This is a shame, the poor girl cannot even die in peace. In my case, I fortunately have a last will and testament stating that all politicians, priests et al. can go and fuck themselves in case something similar happens to me in the future. I will do with my life whatever I want and I will not burden anyone. :cool

i want priests just so i can come back and mess with them LOL.. yes i saw god, and boy was i surprised..he was.... LOL

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

The poor girl just passed away. At least politicians will not use her any more. Requiescat in pace

I'm glad she was given dignity with a peaceful death. It is good for the parents as well, after 17 awful years of hoping she might some day recover...now they have some peace as well, sad as it is. I'm glad it did not devolve into another Terry Schaivo type of spectacle.

I wonder why they waited 7 years to try and get them to let her die? I absolutely do not understand these people who think it's "God's will" to drag a dead person out of a grisly car wreck and drug them, intubate them, perform CPR and other medically induced reviving efforts, wheel them into emergency surgery, saw their skulls open and remove clots/tissue and repair bleeds, and pump them full of transfusions, antibiotics, and anti-convulsants. THEN, when it is becomes a medical certainty that they will NEVER regain consciousness or recover in any meaningful way from the injuries sustained in the accident, that it would be AGAINST "God's will" to let them die, again. This bullshit about her being in "the condition to have babies" is BY FAR one of the most uneducated, stupid, ridiculous, ludicrous, unfounded, and outright LIE that I do believe that I have ever had the opportunity to hear or read that a political leader had to say, ever.



Since they want to make this into some sort of a religious statement, what about the part where someone is supposed to be married before they have sex and the fact that for their marriage to be recognized by The Catholic Church, that BOTH parties have to be physically able and consenting to consumate the marriage? I know that they won't recognize the marriages of impotent men EVEN IF they are permanently paralyzed from the neck down because they can't consumate the damned thing. How exactly would a woman who is in a persistent vegetative state go about saying her vows or giving consent to consumate her marriage, assuming she could be physically penetrated in her condiiton without killing her? Did he have any volunteers who were willing to serenade her lifeless body, marry her in the hospital room, pull her catheter aside and consumate away REPEATEDLY until she is knocked up? Then raise the kyd(s) alone without the benefit of marital companionship or having no mother for his children? Did he expect a man to marry her who has never even met her?



MY GOD that is incredible that a prime minister could say such a thing and it is NOT biblically correct NOR does it follow the tradition and rules set forth by The Catholic Church. WHAT AN IDIOT, I am glad that the poor women died before anything else could be done to allow her or her family's continued suffering. This prime minister needs to be bitch slapped for his stupidity if for no other reason.

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kidlesskim
How exactly would a woman who is in a persistent vegetative state go about saying her vows or giving consent to consumate her marriage, assuming she could be physically penetrated in her condiiton without killing her? Did he have any volunteers who were willing to serenade her lifeless body, marry her in the hospital room, pull her catheter aside and consumate away REPEATEDLY until she is knocked up?

Exactly, Kim! How the fuck could they even make such a disgusting statement? They're basically saying it would be OK to rape comatose women and use them as incubators.

I am glad the poor woman passed away and hope she is at peace. Yet for all intents and purposes, she died in 1992, and the plug should have been pulled then.

I can't believe that fucker Berlusconi made such an appalling statement Then again, scenarios like this one are bound to happen when there's not much separation between church and state.

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Medusa

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kidlesskim
How exactly would a woman who is in a persistent vegetative state go about saying her vows or giving consent to consumate her marriage, assuming she could be physically penetrated in her condiiton without killing her? Did he have any volunteers who were willing to serenade her lifeless body, marry her in the hospital room, pull her catheter aside and consumate away REPEATEDLY until she is knocked up?

Exactly, Kim! How the fuck could they even make such a disgusting statement? They're basically saying it would be OK to rape comatose women and use them as incubators.

Not only that, the stupid bastard hasn't even considered that a marriage can't take place in this case and be considered valid by The Catholic Church.




There are three basic requirements for a valid Catholic wedding:

The couple must be capable of being married—that is, they must be a woman and a man who are free of any impediment that would prevent marriage.

The couple must give their consent to be married—that is, by an act of their will they irrevocably give and accept one another in order to establish marriage (Canon 1057).

They must follow the canonical form for marriage—that is, they must be married according to the laws of the Church so that the Church and the wider community will be certain about the validity of their marriage.


Let's break down each of these points.

Impediments to marriage. First, both people must be capable of being married and free of any impediment (obstacle) that would prevent marriage. Some impediments to marriage include:

Age: Both persons need to be old enough to contract marriage according to the local civil laws. (The Church has a minimum age requirement as well; see canon 1083.)

Previous marriage: You cannot marry someone else if you are already married. This most common impediment to marriage is discussed more below.

Relatives: You cannot marry someone who is already your relative (canons 1091-1094).

Reason: Anyone who is incapable of understanding what marriage is and the responsibilities that come with it (because of mental impairment, for instance) cannot enter marriage (canon 1095).


Fear: No one can be forced into marriage, either directly or because of some "grave fear" (canon 1103).

This is not an exhaustive list, which is why it is up to your pastor to determine whether there are any impediments to your marriage, but it covers some common impediments.

Previous marriage is probably the most common impediment to marriage. The Church follows Christ's teaching that marriage is a covenant that cannot be dissolved, so it does not recognize divorce as "dissolving" the previous marriage. However, the Church has a legal process for determining whether the previous marriage was valid—that is, that the couple gave freely themselves to one another in a way that brought about a valid marriage between them. If the Church determines that the previous marriage was not valid, it is said to be annulled. An annulment removes the impediment to marriage.

Freely given consent. In order to enter a valid marriage, each person must freely choose to give his or her entire self to the other, and to accept the gift of the other, irrevocably (forever). Church law presumes that the words and actions of the couple during the wedding accurately reflect their intention to do this. Immediately before the couple consent to enter into marriage (by reciting the marriage vows), the assisting priest or deacon asks the couple three questions:

Have you come here freely and without reservation to give yourselves to each other in marriage?

Will you love and honor each other as husband and wife for the rest of your lives?


Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church? (Rite of Marriage #24)





..........among some other requirements that can't possibly be met by a comatose person. Just this part alone makes his statement about her being "in a condition to have babyees" an outright lie and COMPLETELY contradictory to the holy sacrament of marriage as defined by The Catholic Church. He must have been asleep during THAT Sunday school lesson. WHAT AN IDIOT, and a sick pervert as well if he thinks it's "ok" for a severely disabled and unconscious woman to be exploited or harmed in this manner. I SERIOUSLY doubt that God or anyone else would sanction some ridiculous bullshit like that. I can't believe that the prime minister didn't get any backlash from that statement because it is basically ANTI- Catholic.