#1483: *Discrimination* against moos???

I had to stop reading after this, or else I might gack on the keyboard:

*Why the stress? At her work, if Renee is late more than six times, she's in danger of losing her job.*

Will someone PLEASE tell me HOW this is *discrimination*? I would think that this being late policy applies to ALL workers, childed or not. My feeling is that if they let Renee be late, but not CF workers, wouldn't that be discrimination against the CF?

Catdaddy's workplace is such that they really don't have designated start/stop times. He can show up at 10AM and work until 7PM, and he's fine. But this applies to ALL, childed or not. The nature of his work (he is an electrical engineer) does not require exact hours. As long as everyone puts in at least 40 hours a week, it's fine.

But obviously, this is NOT the policy at Renee's workplace. I didn't see anything about what she does for a living, but could it be that her workplace has a legitimate NEED for people to be there at certain times? It sure sounds to me that she is asking for special favors just because she chose to breed. And that is WRONG!

When you give special favors to breeders, you are discrimating against the CF. But I guess we just don't count, to some people.

She sounds like one of those lazy spoiled ass moos who was spoiled rotten as a kid and now she can't hand the responsibilities of life. IT'S CALL GROW UP! Also, if kids are such a hassle, BE LIKE US CHILDFREE AND NOT HAVE ANY! duh.

At my work (btw, there is no work right this second) I come in whenever its convienant to me, but if I'm repeatedly late, its comes out of my pay. So I make sure I'm on time. It's not hard to get your lazy ass out of bed to make SURE you get to work ON TIME, no matter the cercumstance. I've had it where I would have to drive 14 miles every single time, so I had to wake up early, and it was NO PROBLEM.

I agree with you, Catmommy9. Again this is the attitude of the Entiltment minded breeders. It's always "me,me,me,me,me" with the breeders.

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lab mom

This part kind of jumped out at me:

"By no means do we live, or want to live, extravagantly: We just want two cars, two kids and a vacation here and there," says Renee."

There are a lot of people who would like those things, especially the vacations. Why does this woman make it sound like she is more deserving of such things because she never learned how birth control works? Idiot breeders choose to spawn and then they bitch and whine about how haaaaaard it is. I could see if they were forced to have kids, but they brought their misery upon themselves, knowing in full what they'd have to deal with. If life is so hard, then why the fuck do they want another kid? They could make their lives a hell of a lot more bearable by getting rid of the kid they have now.

Someone posted this somewhere before, although I guess not here. As another poster there pointed out, why the heck is the husband sleeping instead of taking care of HIS kids?

"At 5:45, with her young son, Wade, and husband, Alan, still sleeping, Renee drags herself out of bed and sleepwalks to the shower."

Guess what, Renee! I get up at 5:45 a.m. too, and I have to do that because I must be on the road no later than 7 a.m. to get to work on time - because I'm required to be in the office between certain hours during the day, and because my income is needed for my family, which consists of two adults and two cats.

When I read "Like many American mothers, Renee needs her income to help provide for her family," I thought - why is only MOTHERS who need the income? Why can't the article just say, "Like many American WOMEN..."?

Oh, that's right - women who aren't mothers don't count most of the time!

As for this comment:

"By no means do we live, or want to live, extravagantly: We just want two cars, two kids and a vacation here and there," says Renee."

Well, my DH and I have two cars - although they're lower-priced compact cars that we plan to keep for years. Mine is an eight-year-old Toyota Corolla; his is a seven-year-old Mercury Tracer, and we don't plan on replacing them until we've driven them each for 100,000 miles.

We can afford "a vacation here and there," but that is because we have chosen to NOT have children and NOT have the expenses of children. And our vacations are not that expensive. We haven't been able to afford travel outside of the U.S. since we married nine years ago, and this year, we can't afford to fly anyplace because we're trying to pay off a home improvement loan. So our vacation will consist of driving to someplace within Texas, or to a neighboring state.

I agree with Cambion - why is it that only PARUNTS seem to whine and complain about not being able to afford certain things and feel that they are entitled to certain things without making the sacrifices to have them?

My DH and I have accepted the fact that we will probably never have as much income as some of our friends from college who are doctors and lawyers, and so will never have some of the material things that they have - because DH and I both chose to work in lower-paying fields.

Our reward is not having to work much more than 40 hours a week, and having plenty of time to spend with each other. And we've chosen to go without some things, such as nicer cars and more expensive vacations, to have money to fix up our house, since having a nice home is a priority for us.

If we had the expense of children, we'd probably have to not take vacations at all and not spend as much on the house unless we were in higher-paying jobs, since the children would have to be a priority.

That's the problem with many parunts that I see - they want children, but they're not willing to cut out certain things to afford them.

When I was a child, my family did without a lot of things because we only had my father's income. We had no vacations except car trips to visit relatives and occasionally camping, using a relative's borrowed camper. We didn't eat out very much. Mom made many of our clothes, and she refused to buy my sisters and me designer jeans (big in the 1980s) - we had to earn them ourselves with money from our part-time jobs.

The payoff for going without these things was my mother being at home with us. She didn't go back to work until I was in high school, and that was to help pay for my college education. And, of course, I never remember my parents whining about all the things we couldn't afford - because it was their choice to have three children and their choice to have my mother quit working.

Why can't more parunts accept that their CHOICE to have children is going to cut into their income, and so they will have do without certain things?

I saw the article when I got home from work this morning at 1am. I also did not read the entire thing. Almost any job I worked, moos got preferential treatment when it came to being off on weekends and not having to work late. The moos felt they had the right to leave early in this small med call center. When I brought this up to the owner's wife, nothing was done! These b*tches leaving early on a Friday night put extreme pressure on me since, as a senior operator, I had a heavier call load while monitoring a station with sensitive information that had to be handled in a quick manner. Quality suffered when this happened. After I left, one operator got fired for taking a break and leaving her station. Mind you all, she was a single woman with no kids. If it has been a moo, nothing would have happened. That is why I quit that job.

Cry me a river!!!! WAAAAAH! Well Renee, I'm up at 5:15 and in work by 7. I have no loaves because I was smart about my life choices but every weekday morning from 5:15 until 6:30, I accomplish the following: shower and dress, feed the dogs and cats, scoop 8 litter boxes, take pooches out to the bathroom, spend some time with SO.

And I was wondering the same thing, why wasn't her husband up and partaking in the festivities? If he works night shift then that's one thing.

Discrimination my ass. They use this word because it is handy. Whenever the lazy, entitlement-minded moos don't want to play by the rules everyone else has to, they're discriminated against.

Right now the smallest violin in the world is playing for all the martyrs.

Cry me a river, too. My dh gets up at 6:00 every single morning without fail. He is never late. My husband does NOT whine nor complain as neither do I. REAL parents do not care because they are to busy doing the actual job without complaining and without fail. Maybe she ought to teach her kids to wake themselves up, so they'll grow up to the mature, responsible adults instead of leetches. The damn nerve of some people.

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lab mom

What drivel. Yesterday I left my house at 4am and got home by 10:20pm. I have to be on time to the farms I go to because they are on a tight schedule. Some places milk around the clock, so if I'm late, it can screw everything up. And yes I would get canned for it too,deserved of course. Breeders are the biggest complainers. No one stuffed that kid in your uterus!

If anyone is discriminated against, it's the CF! Fucking whiny bitches.

When my Mom was dying of cancer, I had to take my vacation time to take her to the hospital or stay home with her when I needed to. If I came in late or left early, I made up for it later. Two days after she died, I went in to work (on a Sunday) to clean up my desk because I would be gone all week for the funeral (and, well, to grieve, dammit!). And I'm actually grateful it happened just before Xmas, since I was able to use those holidays.

I'm still REALLY bitter about all that. You can bet your arse that if Mom had been a sick sprog instead, they wouldn't have made me do any of this.

To a breeder, a dieing relative is nothing, how sad. I'm sorry to hear about you loosing your mother.

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lab mom

That's awful, Medusa. I'm sure your mom was grateful to have a daughter like you taking care of her. Think about it this way. Once these entitlement-minded moos get sick or old, where will their kids be? Not helping to take care of them, I bet. Natural justice isn't always kind.

You just gotta love this statement made my one of the pro-moos: "A different kind of society could easily afford women the opportunity to be mothers and have careers (e.g., Scandinavia). Governments in other countries have successfully implemented family-friendly policies. What about 30-hour work weeks, for example? It could be done."

Scandinavia, yes. Beautiful place. The thought of people over there being taxed at 70% (am I correct on this?) so moos can have their speshul lifestyle just must make her tingle with delight.

Thanks, WaterLily and Nour. I have since quit that job, for obvious reasons. What pisses me off the most is that I was at work when I got the call from the hospital that it was almost over. So, by the time I got there, she was dead. Those bastards cheated me out of the last few moments of my mother's life. I will NEVER forgive them for that.

Medusa: I just wanted to say how terrible and unfair it was that they still made you be at work as much as possible while your mother was terminally ill. Moos can get away with this - their kid has as much as a cough and they're out the door, with anyone's guess as to if/when they'll be back that week. Pisses me off. What turds.

Medusa, I'm so sorry that happened to you. That really sucks. I hope the place you worked where they treated you badly goes belly-up and all the breeders there find themselves unemployed and with rotten sickly kids. There's nothing like justice.

At the medical call center, a woman's father died. She wanted to take more than just the couple of days because her mother was having a very hard time. The owner's wife, a real "c" word, called this employee telling her to come back NOW so her husband did not have to work her overnight shift for more than two days. Yet, this bint -- the onwer's wife -- said NOTHING about all of the moos who would leave early or call out 30 minutes before their shifts.

Medusa - my sympathies on the loss of your mother, and being treated badly by your former workplace.

I am lucky. My boss was very understanding about letting me take time off earlier this year when I received an unexpected phone call at work from my older sister - my 75-year-old mother had shattered her kneecap and had to have major surgery. She (and my father, who's 79) has been healthy up to this point, so knowing that she would be feeble for a while was a blow to me.

My boss knew I was upset, and told me to take as much time as I needed to be with my mom in the hospital and to help her and my father after she came home. I think he was understanding because he had to take time off himself a few years ago when his own father was dying.

My boss is also a big animal lover, and so when I had to take my cat to the vet several times last month after she had an emergency operation, he was understanding.

My being off to take care of my elderly mother and my cat didn't make me any less productive than my co-worker who has to take time off when her child is sick, and fortunately, the managers in my office know this. I wish all workplaces felt this way. If our society wants to be "family-friendly," then EVERYONE should be able to have a reasonable amount of time off from work to care of family members - whether the family member is a child, an aging parent, a sick sibling, or even a pet.

Lynn, who's grateful that her mom is walking again thanks to physical therapy

I agree. Family-Friendly should apply to EVERYONE, now shouldn't it? I mean, we are all families. Families of two - husbands and wives or families meaning our siblings, parents, nieces, nephews, etc. Pets are a big part of many people's families.

Or is family-friendly convenient to use only when it benefits a breeder with young brats?

Yep. "I have a family" means "I have brats."

Sounds like Sweden and Norway and Finland are extremely f*cked up.

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lab mom

Some other broodsow gets a hissy fit because her employer makes her follow the rules and now it's discrimination against moos. Fuck. That. Shit. What a bunch of lazy-assed entitlemoos.

The "Motherhood Manifesto" sounds more like some spoiled, whiny brat who needs a good spanking and a few weeks of working the graveyard shift.

Since most here are USA I'll just dive a little bit deeper into the European system.

I don't have the nrs for Norway and Finland but in Belgium we lose about 50% of our wages on taxes. Of course each time we buy something there is also a 21% tax on sales price added (called a tax on added value) and then there is the community tax of whatever town or city you are living in (mostly around 7% of your net but it varies from town to town). And of course the annual tax bill.

What do you get in general for these taxes:

pretty good educational system
pretty good health system (a visit to a doctor cost about 6 EURO), most medication is affordable, as is most surgery or hospital stay (altough additional insurance can help for the hospital/surgery). But if you get a long and serious health problem you're still screwed financially.
Free public libaries
unemployment benefits are unlimited in time which means you can get them for years and years and years (amount does drop with time).
If you do not qualify for unemployement benefits (meaning you have not worked for more than one year) you can get welfare money, the minimum is about 600 EURO.

Benefits for parents and parents only:
tax breaks
child support money
higher welfare depending on the amount of children you have
for mothers: 4 months of maternity leave (fathers get some time of ass well but I think it is only 2 weeks)
schools are pretty much free,
going to university costs about 500 EURO of entrance fee, add another 500 EURO for books, syllabus and that's it (we don't have dorms, you rent a room on the private market or share a house with a few other students, normal rate around 350 EURO/month for the room, small studio, 500 EURO for a not too fancy house)
Oh yes with the good healthcare system comes almost free in vitro fertilization programs, no max amount of tries (we do have a max age now, somewhere around 45) and it even is free for women who previously got 'fixed'.

Your work can also give you 5 to 10 days of social leave mostly not payed (we have as a general rule 20 days of payed leave) my work gives you 5 days payed social leave and 5 days not payed but you pretty much have to be a Moo to be able to use them because almost all other reasons are refused (baby is sick for the 5th time, use the social leave! girlfriend has cancer, sorry no social leave for you - real example, luckily not my girlfriend).

Government is also making plans for subsidizing day care centers with tax money.

Me personally, I am in good health and full time employed so I basically pay most of my taxes for the benefit of other people. I don' t mind the money going to people with serious illness and stuff like that. But I don't like sponsering parents (it's a choice you make, We the CF don't ask the government to give money for our hobbies like riding horses - also expensive ...) or the eternal lazy people who don't work for 5 years but still get 750 EURO a month unemployement money.

Unfortunately no choice on the paying of taxes yet .....

About being discriminated at work, same applies, the CF always get the weekend or late shifts. My boss openly said that the Xmass holidays and summer months were first for those with children and the CF got the left overs. After some time I was fed up with it, so when they wanted to unload some more bad shifts onto me I came up with a very effective answer: 'Yes I am single and have no children, but that also means that if I can't go to the shop nobody else will do it for me and I will have NO food!' The opening hours of shops are still pretty limited in Belgium (no 24/7 shops). I must say it worked like a charm.

Sorry to hear about that, CF-Europe.

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lab mom