#1605 - Childfree responsibility

>>I think that every person who is truly child free needs to have a talk with their siblings about guardianship. A great many parents just assume that their siblings would want their children in the event of their untimely demise. This could ruin both the child free person?s (or couples) lives as well as the child?s.<<

Guest, I disagree with you on this one.

DH and I have six nieces and nephews between us, and we'll have another nephew this weekend after my sister has her C-section. And we expect to have at least one more niece or nephew, since DH's brother and his wife want to have a second child in the next few years.

We love our nieces and nephews, and if something happened to our siblings, we would not object to becoming guardians for our nieces and nephews.

My older sister has an almost 25-year-old married daughter and a 15-year-old son, and she designated her daughter to be the guardian of her son when her daughter turned 21. But my younger sister has 7-year-old twins, a 3-year-old daughter and, as I said, a newborn as of this weekend. And DH's brother and his wife have one almost 2-year-old son.

I know that it would be difficult to take care of these children, but DH and I are willing to do it if necessary. Family - meaning extended family, not just DH's and my family-of-two - is very important to us, and we're willing to do our part in taking care of our nieces and nephews.

DH reminds me that when we're elderly in about 35 years, our nieces and nephews may be the ones looking after us. He jokes about it, but he's probably right, so I feel a responsibility to build good relationships with our nieces and nephews. And if being willing to take care of them means we're not "truly childfree," then so be it! I've also been told that I'm not "truly childfree" because I don't hate children, because I'm a Christian with somewhat conservative views, etc.

>>It might be easier for young people to have these discussions before their siblings have children<<

That wasn't possible in our case. All of our nieces and nephews except for the 3-year-old and almost 2-year-old were born before DH and I decided to not have any children of our own. In fact, we decided that being a great aunt and a great uncle was enough for us.

Also remember that you CAN'T be forced to take in any kids if YOU don't sign something agreeing to it.

I think it is up to the parents, and NOT the CF to bring up guardianship. It is the job of the PARENTS to appoint a guardian, and make sure that said guardian agrees to it. Go to an attorney and sign papers to that effect.

The CF person can ALWAYS say NO, which means that the parents have to find someone else. It is irresponsible of a parent to just ASSume that Auntie Catmommy will take in Bratleigh, just because Uncle Catdaddy has a high-paying job.

And if a CF does agree to be a guardian, and signs the papers for it, they MUST follow through. Never sign papers thinking, "oh, it'll never happen, so I don't have to worry." You never know. It just might.

Sure, if you want to take in nieces and nephews, then that's fine.

My sister and I already had a discussion about this. She said she didn't think we'd want to take over parenting her daughter. I said she was right. She's actually a good kid (the kind who sits still in restaurants, eats politely, and uses her indoor voice) but I'd hate to have to RAISE her. You people understand, I'm sure.

CF VTer, I understand COMPLETELY!

I don't care how good a kid is...part of the reasons we have for not wanting to be parents involve having to deal with other parents, many of whom are of the breeder variety. As a CF couple, we can choose to avoid breeders whenever possible. But as parents, we could not raise a child in a vacuum...the kid is gonna go to school, have friends, and the parents of said friends might well be asshole breeders.

I would never want to have a kid, even a good kid, come home and start wanting Lunchables/a cell phone/Britney Spears slutwear/or whatever other shit that other kids have...just because her friend Bratleigh Breederson has it. I don't want to deal with the peer pressure shit.

I'd probably be considered an Evil Chyuld Abuser as it is, because we don't have cable TV, and don't really have the desire to get it.

But the big reason is that I just don't want to change our lifestyle.

I think of all of the reasons we have to be CF, and also of the fact that Catdaddy went to a lot of trouble to get snipped. If we feel that way about having our own, why on earth would we want to raise someone else's kids. no matter how good and well behaved they might be?

luckily my brother is sort of childfree, long term ill and doesnt seem to be looking for a woman, so never gonna happen, we are the last.. my aunts and uncles there are many of them, so its all sorted.

faust has no siblings, no relations with kids..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

My sister & I have had this discussion, too. If anything were to ever happen to her & BIL, then DH & I would take the kids. All of BIL's siblings have families of their own, but none of them are very responsible parents. The kids (ages 14,10,9) want to stay with us as opposed to their other aunts & uncles.
I never wanted any kids of my own, but I feel I have an obligation to these ones if anything were to happen to their parents.

Guest, I agree with you 100%. It's always better to discuss things like this and PLAN for them BEFORE they happen. If this is an issue in your family, it's better to tell your siblings the truth NOW so they can choose a guardian, perhaps another family member or a close family friend, who wholeheartedly says "yes" to the responsibility of raising someone else's children. In my family the issue was "Who will take care of Grandma when she can no longer live on her own?" Grandma is 98 now. She has three living children who are married, including my father. I am one of 13 grown grandchildren. Everyone always assumed that someone (not them) would take care of Grandma when she needed it. Bad assumption. When Grandma needed full-time care, my parents had their hands full taking care of my mother's elderly parents. I don't live anywhere near Grandma, and I wasn't about to quit my job, move back to Ohio and live in Grandma's house so that I could work full-time to pay for a day-time care giver and spend my evenings and weekends bathing her, feeding her and changing her diapers. One of her grandchildren moved in with her, but only because she changed her will to make him the beneficiary. He tricked her into signing for a large loan (secured by her house) that he said was for fixing her house. He didn't fix the house, he spent the money. He eventually left, and Grandma ended up living with my aunt and uncle. Note that NO ONE (including me) wanted to actually live with her and take care of her every single day. This has been a huge burden on my aunt and uncle. They are in their mid-seventies, not in good health and they cannot enjoy their "golden years" because they cannot leave Grandma alone. They cannot afford to pay for part-time care. My grandmother is miserable and isolated in their small, cramped house. She is mean and ungrateful, and I feel sorry for my aunt and uncle who have to live with her. I made a point of sitting down with my parents and discussing what we will do when one or both of them can no longer live independently.

This is a tough subject for me. I have 2 nephews, the sons of my only sibling, my little brother. While they still have 3 grandparents on both sides and 2 uncles on their mom's side, I would hate to be asked to ever care for them if something (Gods forbid) happened to lil bro and SIL. If it came down to them going to an orphanage, I'd take them, but if they have the chance to be cared for by other very capable family members, I would not fight to be the one to care for them.

Last summer, we were at a family gathering with SIL, BIL and their bratty spawn, ages 2 and 4. The 4-year-old little princess is a pretty little Shirley Temple lookalike and is very sharp, but she also has a real attitude and a bossy personality already.

DH was actually scolding her one day for misbehaving (because neither of her parents were paying attention, natch!) and she was getting really pissed at him because he wasn't letting her do what she wanted. She was getting all red in the face and ready to have a meltdown. LOL!

Later on that day, and I forget how this came up in the conversation, but someone said something to her, like "Who would take care of you if Mommy and Daddy were gone?" She immediately replied with DH's name!!! DH was just stunned! It was pretty fucking funny, considering DH is a real hard-ass around her.

It's weird how kids prefer the disciplinarians. My nephews said I was their favorite auntie, and I was like "WTF?" I've never taken one iota of shit from them, and they're always asking when I'm going to come over and play with them. The last time I babysat, they were grounded until they cleaned their rooms. I marched them upstairs, made them clean up, and told them if I had to come up there one more time, I was going to sit on the steps, and read the Bible to them until they finished. Not a peep. When Sis & BIL got home, they couldn't believe what they saw- a clean house.

This is one of those times when I'm glad to be an only child - no one will EVER dump their brats on me.

Amen Sister!
I am an only child as well, and unless my cousins breed and I'm the only living relative, I'll never have to worrry. Phew! Unfortunately, I am not particularly looking forward to dealing with my parents all on my lonesome, but I figure they put forth the effort to raise me up right, the least I can do is to respect their wishes and keep 'em out of the old folks home.

I'm not sure that taking in an elderly relative is always the best situation for the relative. My 98 year old Grandmother has been living with my aunt and uncle for at least 6 years now. They are in their 70's, in poor health and live in a tiny, cramped house. They didn't want to put Grandma in a nursing home, but I think she may have been happier if they had. Aunt and Uncle assumed they would only have to care for Grandma for a year or so, because she wasn't in good health. Six years have passed, and they have come to resent her. They feel cheated out of their golden years. They say it's just like taking care of a baby, except the baby doesn't grow up. Grandma has become mean, ungrateful, and she makes their lives miserable. She's miserable and isolated. At least in a nursing home or assisted living home she would have professional health care and lots of other people to socialize with.

If you could forcibly foist your brats upon someone when you die, can you imagine how many brats Bill and Melinda Gates would have?

Glad you can't be forced into it, despite all of the "suddenly you're a moomie/duhddie" movies.

Although I agree that this is a good conversation to have with your siblings, you still never know what could happen. When my brother died earlier this year (I'll save that story for another day), who would take care of his two young sons wasn't an issue. Each one lives with his mother.

However, since then, we've started to suspect his oldest son is being abused by someone. He lives with his pregnant (again) mother, 2 sisters, his mother's sister, her husband, and their 3 or 4 kids. Yeah, that's right...my nephew lives in a 3 bedroom house with 3 adults and 6 or 7 kids.

The scars we found on him are too numerous and some are too oddly shaped to just be the typical "boys being boys" scars. We hadn't seen him for 2 years (another story, another day) before my brother's death, so we're still getting to know him and gain his trust. If we find out he is being abused, there's no question that I will take him if my parents can't. My nephew's only family on his mother's side lives in that house, so that isn't an option.

At a family gathering years ago, before I knew I was childfree as opposed to childless, one fo my relatives asked me when I was going to have kids. My brother jumped in and said, "She won't have any kids. She likes to sleep too mcuh." He knew me so well...I do like my sleep. However, my love for my brother and his son, lead me to my decision. I don't know how good a parent I would be to my nephew, but I know he'd always be loved and cared for, he'd never be abused, and although he might watch a lot of TV & DVDs so his Aunt Cowgirl could get some R&R when she needed it, I would try my damndest to keep him from knowing that I never wanted to do it.

{{{SpaceCowgirl!}}} Please accept my condolences for the loss of your brother.

Although you would not be the ideal parent, you'd be a sure sight better than the situation that boy is in now. He could do a lot worse.

I hope your family can figure out exactly what is going on in that house, and soon. I don't much like kids, but I still hate to hear about them being abused. No child deserves such a life.

I hope it all works out for the best for you and your family.

Thanks for the condolences catmommy. Thankfully, my parents are both healthy and my Dad is retired. So, if my nephew does end up being taken away from his mother, it'd (hopefully) be a long time, if ever, before I had to take him. If I ever did, I would never play the role of martyr though since no matter what people say, having or raising a child is a CHOICE. And I know that I wouldn't be the best parent because I don't buy that Hollywood-fade-to-black- and-they-all-live-happily- ever-after-Stepmom-type BS. It just doesn't work that way.

My fellow CFers are some of the few who understand how you can love a sibling and/or their child, yet still not want to raise that child. So, I certainly don't judge those of us who say no, not ever. That's why I think it is a good idea to bring up the issue with your siblings whenever possible. That way, they can at least try to find someone else.

I would only take in my younger brother's son, my nephew. That's it!

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lab mom

SpaceCowGirl, I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother. Getting kids away from an abusive pahrunt is always a long, hard haul, no matter how much proof you have. Best wishes to you on this. I hope your little nephew is not being abused, though. Those scars last a lifetime.

Despite my dislike of children, I get real pissed when I hear someone abusing one.

we may not like kids, but i dont think any of us wants to see permanent damage to kids..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Medusa Wrote:
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> This is one of those times when I'm glad to be an
> only child - no one will EVER dump their brats on
> me.

I'm an only child too, but DH isn't.

I am also an "only", thank the gods. I have two stepbrothers who used to be cool but think they are so "yuppie" and high-end due to having a contracting firm. One stepbro and his wife are having a baby in September. I guess that is the due date. It is not as if I need to know 'cause I am not sending any presents or cards. I am too "low-class" and "working-class" so I have no worry about them asking me to be fill-in moo should something happen. Not that I would do it anyway.

Space Cowgirl, you are in my thoughts. Your situation is tough. You want a childfree life but may take in an abused relative. You do have a good heart to do this for the little guy. Years ago on a chaotic CF site (alt.support.childfree), a woman had to deal with this issue. Creeps over there called her names and made the insinuation that she was not truly a childfree person for taking in her young relative. How can people be so cruel? Would they prefer someone to be heartless enough to let another human suffer or starve? It would be different if the child was just plain bad.