Homeless vs. just being a vagrant.

Since it's not "nice" or politically correct to say anything negative ever about homeless people with most folks, I figured Bratfree was just the place for me to share this little thought of mine I've been having. I think there's a huge difference between homeless people and vagrants, but we're supposed to refer to them all as "homeless." When I hear "homeless," I think of a truly unfortunate person who has had something happen to them which was out of their control and caused them to be without a home, at least for now. Someone fleeing an abusive relationship, someone who's survived a natural disaster which destroyed their house, someone who had so many medical bills to pay that they couldn't keep up with their mortgage or rent and lost their home. I also put severely mentally ill people who've somehow fallen through the cracks and don't receive the medical care they need to manage their conditions and be functional in this category. I have sympathy for people in these situations.

Vagrants are a different kind of person altogether. Vagrants usually aren't interested in becoming re-homed, or becoming productive, working people, because it would mean they'd have a physical address and thus a paper trail on them. Vagrants often have some kind of criminal past, have serious substance addictions, or all of the above. These type of people usually aren't able to adhere to the requirements of any job, because they can't be arsed to show up to a place, on time, every day, and stay the whole day.

Working in fast food in the past, I've had to deal with many of them who attempted to hold on to the job just long enough for one paycheck and then quit. It was always funny to me because they were practically begging my boss for a job because they "really wanted to work." They never lasted more than 2 weeks. They would come in later drunk off their ass or clearly on something like meth to collect their one paycheck. eyes2 They couldn't hack a job simple enough for a monkey to do for longer than a week or two, and I remember my boss from that job having tons of problems with these people being late, or losing their temper, or even showing up clearly impaired by substances, really early on in their employment (I remember one girl showed up to her first DAY and it was clear to everyone there that she was on something). They lack the ability to function within any kind of structure. I also had the thought that a lot of them probably want to remain "homeless" because if you have a bunch of outstanding warrants, or are a sex offender, a physical address might mean the police can come get you for those warrants, or that you'll have to register on the sex offender registry so your neighbors will know what you did. So these people remain vagrants. I have zero sympathy for them. The only time I have sympathy is when they breed, since their unfortunate offspring didn't ask to be born to such a person, and the likelihood that the cycle will just continue is high. My sympathy is limited to the innocents they create, not the horrible people who created them.

I've been harassed by some of these vagrants for money, or have been cat-called by them. When I said I didn't have any money I've been told, "fuck you," called a bitch and a cunt, and all sorts of things, simply because I wouldn't "help" them. I have zero sympathy, and the amount of fucks I give for these vagrants is also zero. They have a gross sense of entitlement and act like the world owes them something. They are nothing more than bipedal parasites in my eyes.

They also do the manipulation routine. Many of them try and play the PTSD veteran gig pulling a Stolen Valor fraud.

The classic one tried on m was a dude who said he was a homeless drunk becasue of his Vietnam experience. Problem was his ID showed he was born in 1975. That math was easy to do. Dumbass.

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“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

Of course, why should anyone have sympathy for a con artist. These parasites are "homeless" by choice as a lifestyle.

I think people who have genuinely fallen on hard times are the ones who won't sit on their asses outside a store rattling their cup at people and/or getting belligerent when no one gives them anything. Those are the vagrants. People who truly want to be helped will do everything they can to dig themselves out of the hole they're in by doing their best to keep a job, saving money, NOT begging random strangers for shit, and if someone gives them free food, they take it.

People who are voluntarily homeless, on the other hand, only want MONEY for booze and drugs (usually) and will bitch at you if you were to, say, bring them a burger instead of just giving them the money. They won't stay in homeless shelters or do anything at all to better their situation and will not look for a job. If they go to jail...hey, that's three hots and a cot for Gawd knows how long. In more recent years, panhandlers have become much more aggressive too. Entitled assholes who seem to feel that you HAVE to give them money for doing abso-fucking-lutely nothing. I remember some asshole in Pittsburgh decided to park himself outside a CVS downtown and open the door for people going in and leaving, and he expected those people to give him money! For holding the fucking door! He bitched at me when I refused to give him anything. I guess he assumed that since I went in a store and came out with a bag, I must have a wallet full of cash just for him.

I bet some of them aren't even homeless; for all I know, some of them might be perfectly normal middle-class people with cars and homes...they just put on ratty sweatpants and a holey jacket and beg for money a couple days a week. Then they climb into their SUV with the day's booty.

Even if they have no home to go back to, I bet a lot of them make more sticking their hands out for freebies than most people make doing actual work. My heart goes out to someone who is genuinely homeless and having difficulties getting back on their feet, but I have zero sympathy for these cockbags that get bitchy with you when you refuse to just hand over money. I refuse to contribute to some lazy urchin's booze fund, so unfortunately I have to paint all homeless people with the same brush and possibly refuse to help someone truly in need to prevent money from going toward someone's bottle of vodka.

The ONLY kind of person I will give money to on the street if I have any are the ones who actually do something, like people playing music. There was always this guy in downtown da-burgh playing his saxophone and I would toss any change I had in his basket. He played well (and took requests sometimes) and he was actually putting forth effort to earn money.

Here's a hundred times worse. We not only have that kind of vagrants, for example, once I saw a guy cleaning windshields and he had a cellphone on his waist and a wireless hands-free on his ear. But the worst kind are the ones that exploit the pity of the people. We have first the kind of breeders that put their loaves to beg for money while they don't do anything except for taking what their offspring recollects; also we have the famous "Marías", which are women of native descent, normally hailing from some poor town, and they are sometimes so ignorant that they don't even speak Spanish. These women are in a lot of traffic lights or any place where they can be and they ask for money while holding a baybee or a toadler on their arms. Sometimes they're theirs, and sometimes they "rent" them from someones, but most of the time the kids are drugged so they stay fast asleep the whole time.

I don't have pity, respect or anything good for that people.

My town has a number of small shopping plazas. To go to one and not see someone begging for money would be rare.

When I used to walk home, I went through a shopping street. Not one day could I walk through there without being asked for money. Some left me alone because they could see I was a high school student (school uniform), but otherwise, I'd be asked at least three times for change.

There's one woman in particular I remember. I couldn't predict her age, but she always looked and talked like she was higher than a kite. She actually startled me every time I saw her because of her appearance.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

I think there are good vagrants and bad vagrants.

Back when I was a traveling street waif, I had a friend who was an aging Yorkshire hippie.

He was an incredible drunk. But that was actually an improvement. He used to be a heroin addict.

And yet, despite that fact, he was the sweetest man who ever lived. Even when he got robbed of his booze money and had his guitar smashed (he made his coin by busking), we found him crying in the garden, rather than smashing heads over it.

He simply preferred to live that way -- kind of outside society. After the horror of heroin addiction, alcoholism was a step up for him. And he really didn't mind being subjected to the elements and scraping by with singing bad Nirvana to anyone who would listen. He knew he sucked, but he had a sense of humor about it, and he made people smile.

He wasn't the type to do the "work for a week" thing. He had chosen his path, and he was happy to leave mainstream society alone.

He was a great dude. I still wonder, sometimes, what happened to him.

Assholes are assholes. There are homeless assholes, and employed assholes, and all kinds of different assholes.

I'm not arguing that good vagrants may not be especially rare, but rather that they, like any other kind of person, can't be painted with a broad brush.

In my experience, whether you run into a good or a bad vagrant is largely dependent on how much of a "society" they have. The more of a society, the better they generally are, because they tend to rub elbows with other street people and performers, which helps kind of keep them in check.

I live in a rural area, so don't see any panhandlers. But, we have plenty of people who like to stand at Interstate exit ramps and such with pitiful cardboard signs begging money. I would always feel bad for them, but never had the financial resources to hand out, but would see others do it.

Seems I heard someone say in another thread that they knew of some people who had this going as a side-racket and were not down-on-their-luck transients.

This is just so horribly discouraging to me. Highly impacts my faith in mankind. Would make me second-guess someone on an exit ramp, and I don't like that feeling. I like to think of myself as a compassionate person always willing to help, and I don't like being put in a position of judging someone like this.

My general policy is that if I am in a country with a good social support net (example: most of the EU), I assume people are there by choice and refuse to give them money. I find it irritating that it exists at all because I pay high taxes to ensure that people aren't forced into homelessness, so I should get something for it, like not having to be hassled by aggressive beggars.

If I'm in a country which has some social provisions but not that much (example: the US), I will usually offer to buy people food. The number of times I've been turned down when offering food strongly suggests to me that my policy is a good one.

In countries where social support does not exist at all I tend to be more generous with money, also because the amounts that people want are generally relatively small to me - most countries without any social systems tend to be poor countries with low average wages. That's assuming it is safe, of course. In some places it just isn't safe to give anyone money or you'll be mobbed. I tend to be more sympathetic in these places even though I know there are false beggars there as well.

I've watched while no less than fifteen bums spent all day in the sun with a card board sign then go and buy beer. One old man wasn't homeless at all. I was dumb enough to feel sorry for one guy but my sympathy faded when I saw him there again only the second time he was obviously high. I will NEVER give money to a bum.

The "good vagrant" is not what I'm talking about at all, and very, very few of them exist anymore in my area. If someone wants to live a nomadic/homeless lifestyle on the fringe of society, that's fine by me, but don't act entitled to a portion of my paycheck or act shitty with me when I actually don't have cash on me, which is more often than not. I may look well put-together when I go out, but that doesn't make me affluent in any way. I donate cash and food to the local food bank every year, which supplies the soup kitchen and food pantry in my city. I feel as though I do my part to help in my area by doing so.

I have given money to street musicians in the past, because I like music, and I definitely have respect for someone who's trying to earn donations rather than just begging or demanding. I think they've moved on because of how rough it's gotten here with the majority of the vagrant population. Now I just see the cardboard sign beggars and the heckling, demanding panhandlers who curse out the people who don't "donate" to them. That's who dominates the vagrant population in my city. A few years ago, it was a different story.

My experience in Baltimore:

1. The exit ramp of 395 used to have a regular who stood with of those "Will Work for Food" cardboard signs. One day, as I was stuck in traffic, I saw another man come up to the first man, they chatted for a minute, then #1 handed the sign to #2. They looked like factory workers changing shifts.

2. I noticed Exit Ramp Man's jeans were ragged. On closer inspection, they were obviously cut with pinking shears.

3. Downtown B-More: There was a healthy young man in his 20's who used to hang out by the Federal Building rattling a cup. One day he was clad in a $500 leather jacket and $200 boots - far more expensive clothes than I could afford. His cup was empty and he looked disgruntled. The next day he was dressed in old overalls.

4. Shoeless Joe: Another downtown local mendicant who would stand outside barefoot. A piteous sight you say? He used to keep his shoes in an alleyway.

I wondered for years how to be able to tell the difference, back when I was more of a softie. I've never been rich by any means, but did want to help people who really needed it. That changed when I saw one of those "Homeless- Hungry" sign holders standing in front of a streetlamp, whose base was literally covered with donated food. The next day he was gone, but the food was left to rot. So now I don't give money to anyone, and just endure the nagging thought that I might be passing up someone who could actually be helped by it.

Another, previous, nail in that coffin was when I saw a guy running around with a pleading look and an empty gas can, begging for money to get gas "to get home". My friend, who was getting hit up, told him he had no money but would be happy to take him to the nearest gas station. The guy backed up like my friend was waving a knife at him, and staggered off to work his way up the line of cars at a bank drive-thru.

Classy.

Comical incident: Dh and I were eating at a local cafe; one of several along the street. This very clean, well-dressed fellow comes through and, at each table with customers, placed an American flag pin down and held up some card for them to read. I think it was about him being deaf and unable to find a job ... some such bullshit. Dh scowled and shook his head when the guy came to our table, the dude nodded affably and moved to the next. Some people did give him change or dollars, the dude would hold up the pin with a questioning look. I guess asking if they really wanted the pin. He was a good mime, gotta give him that.

The fellow was able to do his con among 6 or 7 customers before the manager caught sight of him. With no comment or sign of anger, he came up behind the guy, caught the back of his collar with one hand, the back of his belt with the other, and propelled him toward the door. Faux Deaf Dude made no protest or gesture, but obediently frog-marched out the door. Scattered applause met his actions. Several of us half-stood in our chairs to see what the panhandler did next. Without even a backward look, he merely strode down to the next cafe and went inside.

I have fallen for this as well. When I was a teenager some guy at the gas station gave me a sob story on how he was stranded because he left his wallet on the oil rig he was from and needed gas to get back. I gave him $40 dollars that I really didn't have to spare and watched as he drove away from the gas station. I have since made it my policy to only give food.
For example, I saw a guy in tattered clothes just sitting outside the local hellmart but far away from the doors. It looked like he was just resting so I went to McDonald's and bought him some food and when I gave it to him he gave me the biggest smile anyone had ever given me he was that grateful for the food. Never once asked for money, he just needed food.
Then you have the people I ran into the day before yesterday. Going to Target I see the man, woman and their loaf holding a sign saying "lost job, need money for rent" etc. I did my shopping and left and went to Burger King to pick them up some food. As I get back I can see them in their SUV with out of state tags, him on an iPhone working the GPS of the SUV. And the kicker? Target has a huge sign saying "Now Hiring" right outside its doors. Needless to say I went home with the food and gave it to family instead.
People are nervy but if we are careful we can actually find the ones that need help instead of the leeches

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kb0wzh
After I got out of the Army in 1984 I had trouble finding a job in California as they thought I was going to kill them (I was Infantry). Well, I finally found one that payed $9.75 and I got a part time job also. This was my second wife and I adopted her young kids in Indiana. Well, she also got a job at a doctors office (I put her through school) and that lasted a short time. She called her brother and I think she flew him out to Cal. And they got a U-Haul truck and took everything. She divorced me in Indiana and I was sued for child support! I was brought up the right way so I got an old Ford Maxi Van and built a place to live inside of it. I got rid of the part time job and added a full time job on top of my other full time job. All in all I got two hours sleep a day and drove about 100 miles between both jobs to pay for the $400 a month support for the two kids. So I was homeless for a while, but I did have work that I didn't quit or came to drunk or high. I now live in New Jersey and I see "homeless" panhandling and getting day jobs as well as selling drugs to get cash. They don't pay taxes, steal, get high and drunk. We have little kids in our area, and I fear for them. I talk to the cops here and they say they can't do much, although I seen a poorly done undercover sting that involved at least five officers that netted zip. Most of them don't want to maintain full time employment, heck I'm 60 and I will be getting one or two jobs in September, I have two Grandkids I need to see, and that costs money!


I worry for society now, we are going down the wrong path.

This is a board for CHILDFREE people! Go away please, before you are flamed!

I live in a very homeless-friendly area; they actually come here from out of state because they can get so many free services here. I work in a library so I see homeless of every description, from the truly mentally ill to the out-and-out bums who are just scamming the system.

I will say I have never seen so many panhandlers in my life as I saw in downtown Denver. They are aggressive, too.