1764 middle-aged mothers

“It is no business of doctors to tell people when to have their children."

Excuse me??? Oh, yes it IS! It's a doctor's job to give you health advice, even if it's advice you don't like or don't want to hear.

What's next? Is some fucking idiot going to say "It's “It is no business of doctors to tell people what not to smoke or what to eat"?

I am not a big fan of the medical profession but I am in 100% agreement, CFScorpio. People just love to say how the doctor cannot tell them not to have those baybees late in life or give any other health advice...but the same patients want to sue the doc for millions when something goes wrong. A lot of gynecologists no longer do obstetrics because the malpratice insurance is outrageous. Moos love to sue when Baybee is not born perfectly do their OWN neglect.

Allow me to set the record straight on one thing. Doctors should NOT be in the business of telling you that you cannot do something. That is essentially a breach of medical ethics. They CAN tell you they: advise against something; will not provide the service(s) you request and refer you to another physician; OR end your physician:patient relationship with them as provided by law. Those are the proper and ethical things to do.

For example, I had an HIV+ patient at the clinical AIDS stage. He refused to take his medication and I could not force him to take them. I advised him that he should take his medications and he refused. Thus, I terminated my patient:physician relationship with him by sending a registered letter to his address as required by state law and referred him to another physician who would treat him.

There are certain things that physicians should and should not do, and living the life of the patient for them is not on the 'should' list.

Man, don't get me started! Having worked in 3 NICUs (two in military hospitals, one in a civilian hospital), I saw first-hand what can happen when older women roll the dice and take their chances having a baby over age 35. What blew my mind was the number of multiples that were the result of fertility treatments. It aggravated me to no end that TRICARE covers fertility treatments, but you can't get an abortion in a military hospital (thanks Reagan--NOT!). Having seen the result of an illegal abortion while I was stationed overseas, it only galvanized my pro-choice stance. Not to mention the fact that I've seen too many brave men and women missing arms & legs (you name the part, I've seen it blown off) who CAN lead productive lives with physical therapy and a good prosthesis and we're spending $$ so a military dependent female can have a baby over age 36. To be fair though, at least TRICARE does cover contraceptives (except for condoms & foam) as well as sterilization procedures (which I'm looking into).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not also true that the risks of pre-ecclampsia and ecclampsia are much higher for teens and women over 35 than it is for other women?

I agree that it's a doctor's job to give the best medical advice for the sake of their patients' health, but a doctor cannot tell someone what to do or that they need to do something. I've never heard a doctor say "Women can't have kids after they hit 35", but I've heard many advise against it. Obviously childbirth after 35 is possible because of the dumbass who came up with IVF, but as I've said before, just because something is possible doesn't mean it should be done. Why, oh why, can't fertility drugs just be illegal?

yes cambion your right, the dr can advise, and say more medical as it says in the article, plus the symptoms of downs etc.. and other malfunctions, all increase due to age, at least someone is saying, look its not always right to have a kid after 35, due to medical reasons,

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Old women wanting to become mothers, and they call us childfree selfish.

Having a kid in late life can cause a mulitude of problems.

---

lab mom

For the love of Goddess, these middle-aged wannabreed bags are the most selfish, hypocritical and deluded cunts!

I personally know two women older than me (early forties) who just had to have that goldensprog. The first was a nurse practitioner who was one of my mentors in nursing school. For years, they tried to have kids and then she told me she had accepted her sterility as "God's will" (she is a strong Catholic). Then her husband found some article about that Italian fertility clinic and off to Rome they go to get her knocked up. She ends up repuggo with a single brat. Brat is born with no health problems, but my friend ends up with gestational diabetes that turns into Type II diabetes, early onset heart failure and kidney problems. Now she is nearly and invalid and the brat is ADHD with behavioral problems and a filthy mouth. She coddled the brat and would not allow the husband to discipline him. Finally, duhddie had enough and spanked the brat's ass and shipped him off to a boarding school. Their marriage is tenuous, at best. Once dad becomes too old to discipline the brat, I am sure he will turn criminal and things will get even more out of hand. I hate to be around the brat, and I always want to backhand him every time I see him. If it were not for my love for her, I would probably have cut the friendship off. Of course, she rejects the idea that maybe God's way of telling her that she should not have had children was to give her a complete brat. I fear for her.

The second is a woman that I know from work. She is single, but when her dad died she went through this major depressive episode with regrets about not giving him a grandbrat. Some idiot therapist convinced her that her childfree status had contributed to her father's depression and death. The fucking quack needs to lose her license for that shit, but I digress. So to help her with her depression, she ends up sperm-infected after sleeping with a succession of guys. She shits out a brat with multiple, congenital heart, lung and other organ defects prematurely. Brat is in the neonatal ICU for months and months, and this nearly causes her to declare bankruptcy. She gets the brat home and proceeds to be the worst of the self-righteous moos we all hate. She is now completely breeder-whacko and buys into all of the psychobabble crap. She lost her job because her performance went downhill and sucked her 401K and savings dry. Her house will be in foreclosure shortly, but she had that almighty but defective goldensprog and now she's up the creek financially and career-wise.

You know, I've noticed something that happens with a disturbing frequency. People who seem relatively child free, or at least fence sitters, end up "changing their minds" after a parent dies. My mother, who was in her late 40's at the time, was dating a signifigantly younger man, and they actually seemed quite happy together. I thought he was kind of a dumbass, but he was kind and generous with her and never seemed to care about kids whatsoever. Then his father died, and within a month he decided he couldn't date her any longer because he needed to be a dad, and obviously she wouldn't be facilitating. The break up was crummy, because he didn't want to stop being friends and partying so he strung her along until he found an acceptable womb and then dropped her like a hot potato without so much as a "how'd ya do?". Less than a year after the "offical" break up, he'd gotten married and his wife was pregnant. I know it had alot to do with his father's death because after it happened, my Mom was talking to me about his desire to have kids, and that she wasn't going there again.

I wonder what the deal with that is...

Hello everyone. I am new.
I am not going to insult anyone by calling myself "childfree". I'm a fencesitter, but am enjoying immensely the comments on this board. It seems most here are highly intelligent, judging by the correct spelling and proper grammar. It's a nice change of pace.

A little about me: I am 35 and married to a wonderful man for a little over a year. He is 31.

Lately, I have been getting a little anxious about my age and the decision whether to have kids or not. We are not set up at all for a child, living in a one bedroom apartment, and don't feel we are financially ready either. We're trying to use our heads. I will say this much...If we do get it together and decide to spawn and find out later that the child will be grossly malformed due to my old eggs, I will terminate in a heartbeat.

I never realzied there was such a large community of committed child-free people and I think it's terrific. THere are way too many people and just not enough resources. I also don't agree with having kids and having others (taxpayers) support them.

I have an APW friend (Annoying Pregnant Woman) that is driving me nuts right now, and I'll probably tell all kinds of stories about her. She is due in December and has NOTHING done! Of course she's not working and the marriage has always been stressed. Twice she has come to our place saying she wants a divorce. Great behavior from a "fundie" that she is. Then again, she's only 22 and lost an ovary last year, so now she thinks if she doesn't spawn, she'll never have the chance. She had an abortion when she was very young because her parents were breeders and partying drug users. But she uses that term "I'm pro-life for myself but pro-choice for others" WTF? No. YOU'RE PRO-CHOICE. She just doesn't want to say it in front of her minister or church friends. Hypocrite.

I can't wait for her to whine and cry to me about how harrrrdd it is to raise a child one only one income (plus whatever gubmit bennies she's getting). I'm just going to tell her "God will provide".

If she thinks she's getting some huge stroller from me for her shower, she can forget it. Onesies, bottles and bibs. God can provide the rest.

All I know is I listen to these old moos pre child cry and moan how they don't have kyds, and then they cry and moan how hard it is after a slew of fertility treatments, the pregnancy and then the sprog.

I try to be reasonably polite, but after a lot of the griping, I say, but this is what you wanted and went thru a lot to get there. You should be happy.

They laff it off and just say well, it's hard, and then I'll say but you knew that, and if you didn't you should have investigated the matter more thoroughly, and you should believe how hard it is b/c all the other moos complain about but I think you thought you were better than them.

then they say you just don't know until you have them and I say yes you do, you just didn't want to believe it or you and your giant ego thought you were better.

You would think they would stop griping to me, but they are so self centered and blown over about the PITA of parunthood they just keep complainnig away anyway.

But most of all, you would think the experience of their years would smarten them up or at least toughen them up, but the kyd thing makes everyone so emotional they can't think straight or rationally, no matter what the age.

god, it sucks to be a moo.

Welcome to the board! Fence sitter or not, at the very least you are thinking before making a decision, which is a heck of a lot more than most breeders have done. Remember that having a child is a life changing AND life long decision with no real breaks or vacations...EVER. Also remember that you do not necissicarily have to make a baby, there's lots of kids all over the world who could use a home with loving parents. And...there are lots of opportunities to work with children without having to have them around 24-7.

Thanks for the warm welcome, Feh.

I laugh when I see your handle. DH likes to use that term all the time. We are quite the cynical, sarcastic type.

I don't know if we'd ever adopt, as the decision to be childless right now is mainly financial.

Weird thing, a few months ago, my boss, who is this very quiet accountant, who doesn't really ask me my personal life and doesn't care (we're very diverse, me and he. Absolute total opposites in a lot of ways), gives me this 4 page long printed manifesto that he received in his email. He hands it to me saying "Here. You're a liberal hippy tree hugger, so this should really piss you off". It was basically a long screed about how the European birthrate is declining and being taken over by Sharia muslims.

I read it and said to my boss,"So, you're giving me and DH the go-head to breed for love of country? Um, last I checked, I barely have the money for food for us, let alone childcare."

His response was "That's what government programs are for".

And he calls ME the liberal tree hugger? I'd die before I stooped so low as to get on "programs".

I can just imagine how long I'd have my job if I started to call in when the babysitter couldn't make it.

Welcome to the Board NotQuiteSure! Oh for the love of the Gods, if you fall off that fence, be smart and fall on our side.

"Lately, I have been getting a little anxious about my age and the decision whether to have kids or not. We are not set up at all for a child, living in a one bedroom apartment, and don't feel we are financially ready either. We're trying to use our heads."

From your comments, it sounds like you are trying to use your head and be smart about the decision. Saying these same comments to breeders, though, will only get you a backlash of nasty comments where they'll take to calling you selfish and all sorts of other unsavory things.

Think of all the things you will have to give up if you have a child. Money, time, a close relationship with your husband, peace and quiet, freedom, possibly your physical health. I have tons of friends with kids. I never see or hear from them and when I do, they are unhappy. And these aren't poor, single welfare moos. These are women who have careers or have hubbies with good jobs, nice homes, cars, good families, etc. Each one of them has told me in confidence that if they had the choice to do over again, they wouldn't do it. Their marriages have gone downhill and they are unhappy. And several of my friends had a child because of the exact reason you stated: anxious about their age. And do you really want to deal with the daily grind of diapers, crying, fits, mess, noise, having to watch the kid every waking moment so he/she does not get into something? Then the juvenille years, adolescent, teens, etc. What a headache.

The only thing that I would probably miss with not having children, would be teaching them to fish. I learned so much from my dear dad when we were on the boat together.

I do solemnly swear, though, if I fall on the wrong side of the CF fence, that I will NEVER EVER EVER do Mother's Day. Ever.

welcome not quite sure, gets ready to push you over to our side.. dont go to the dark side

it does seem that you are a thinker, most breeders dont think with anything else but their reproductive organs, there are many reasons not to have kids. theres a few sites that explain the reasons, to and not to have kids..

these are the religious nuts reasons

http://www.aboverubies.org/articles/101.html


this is one of the cf 101 reasons NOT to have kids

http://www.thecfcouple.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=guestrant&action=display&thread=1142033616

this is cambions 101 reasons NOT

http://www.freewebs.com/rockincf2/reasonstonothavekids.htm

but if you want to teach kids to fish, you can always become a mentor.



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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

NotQuiteSure Wrote:
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> The only thing that I would probably miss with not
> having children, would be teaching them to fish. I
> learned so much from my dear dad when we were on
> the boat together.

Best of luck with your decision! If you do decide not to have children, you might consider mentoring a child in the Big brothers/Big sisters program and teaching that child to fish.

To be honest, I don't want to get involved with any BB/BS stuff. The red tape of getting approved is too much for me. If only they made prospective breeders go through background checks...sigh.

The birth of a baby is the ultimate fulfillment of love between a husband and wife. Each child is an unbreakable bond between a father and mother.

Where do these Moomies reside? Mayberry?

Jeebus Christ on a cracker!1 Have these lame-brains never heard of deadbeat dads??

"The birth of a baby is the ultimate fulfillment of love between a husband and wife. Each child is an unbreakable bond between a father and mother."

Give me a break. I should print that out and show it to my best friend, whose husband threw her out when she was pregnant with their second child.

NotQuiteSure Wrote:
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Welcome Notsure!! Well,even if you do reproduce, don't forget how awesome CF people are!! I love some of the comments on here,they are insane!! Plus the people are very kind (to each other)
I had a "friend"(who I cut off after she hooked up with her DH, breeder brained from the get go) who oops said husband with their second child. He threw the test at her and yelled "congradulations" to her! I think he even left her for awhile too. And her and I were like Thelma and Louise I swear! Whata do? Welcome again!



> Give me a break. I should print that out and show
> it to my best friend, whose husband threw her out
> when she was pregnant with their second child.

Hello Sharon! Yes, people here are for the most part very civil, even when it comes to trolls.

There's a very, very sad story about my best friend.

I have been friends with her since she and I were in college and both of us were doing data entry in an "electronic sweatshop". We couldn't be more opposite-I the eclectic party gal and she the girly-girl with the matching sweater and earrings. We joked about the reason we got along so well being that we had completely different taste in men, so we never fought over a guy.

She met her husband while she was working in an HR dept at a local company, and he was junior legal counsel. He is a little older than her. Well, it was a fairly quick engagement, maybe 2 years from dating to the altar. I didn't get to see her much after that for a while.

Between working for her husband in his eventual private practice, and having a little girl to raise, and be a good housewife, she and I never got to talk. In 8 years, I saw her once and chatted on the phone a handful of times, with her hanging up because he was coming home. I asked her if things were okay between them, and she always said yes, that he was just so busy with things and very type-A.

A couple of years ago, I was in a really low spot in my life. She and I reconnected, and I went to visit her in her new home. It was practically a palace! A McMansion all the way, but nicer than what I had and have going on. We spent some time together for one day and then she scurried me off because hubby would be home soon. I told her I'd be more than happy to help her out, as I'm well versed in the legal assistant field, and I could do a little laundry, spend time with her and her daughter...and she could get a well earned respite from the day in day out sloggery she was doing.

About six months after that, she tells me she's pregnant again. She doesn't sound thrilled at all. And again, I offer any help I can, but she declines. A couple months after that, she left me a message telling to call her husband about doing some work. I call him and find out she left him.

Long story short, he's a dick. She knew she was pregnant, but was afraid to tell him because he had started to turn abusive. She had had enough, and put some money from their large joint account into another account in her name, knowing that she would have all the credit cards snipped by him if it came down to her walking out. She got pregnant when her daughter was sick in the hospital, and he was "too busy" to give her relief from sitting with her so she could go home, take a shower, and take her b/c pills. When she got home from the hospital, he insisted she do her other wifely duty, KWIM?

He flipped when she eventually told him when she was pregnant. Shortly after this, she had a change of heart and came clean about the money. He flipped and threw her and their daughter, out of the house. Credit cards were snipped in about ten minutes, she said.

Now I work for him part time, and am friends with her still. I tell him when he's being an asshole and keep her informed of anything she might need to know. He's being obstinate about the divorce proceedings and I so want to kick him in the head for being so, as he blames everything on her, which isn't the truth, and he knows I know it.

Anyway, the point is, even when my friend's life looked so wonderful from the outside, I wouldn't trade my life for hers ever. I may not have a lot, but at least I have a DH that doesn't come home at 2 am reeking of Eternity.

FWIW, she is a PNB, but still drives a SMOOOV with all the DVDs and crap. But the kids are cute, even if her new son is the spitting image of the dick that helped create him. Her daughter was in my wedding, as was she, and she was very well behaved and a joy.

She is very supportive of my thoughts on remaining childless for the time being, and I can tell her if she's overdoing the soccer mom thing.

NotSure: He sounds like he was abusive to her during the marriage: I bet he was very controlling and emotionally abusive of her. Nice guy BTW!! That is cold-hearted to throw your daughter out too. People always have their actions boomarang back to them. You might not see it for a long time, but the way they have treated others will come back to haunt them.

He was and still is VERY controlling. She tells me he was always mentally abusive in varying degrees, but when it turned physical, she knew it was time to get out.

She said the worst thing he did to her was keeping her from her friends and even family. She was forced to alienate everyone close to her, and when she stood there at seven in the morning, with a seven year old and one on the way, that there was really nowhere she could go.

FWIW, he treats me very well, except for that time he regifted me a fruit basket for christmas. I told him all future gifts were to be in Cash!

He already has a new girlfriend and they bought a McMansion together. She is absolutely clueless to his real behavior, and he does everything in his power to keep her that way. For example:

I'm a huge parrothead. I managed to pay through the nose for four lawn tickets to a recent show. The plan was for I, DH, my friend and her boyfriend (but not live in, just steady dating) to go to the show in her SMOOOV. The extra room would come in handy for all the assorted crap one needs for a true margaritaville tailgate. I'm all excited and tell lawyer boy next time I see/work with him. I completely disclose the fact that I am going with his soon to be ex.

The next weekend, lawyer boy's girlfriend calls him to say that she and a bunch of her colleagues are going to the same show, getting VIP tix, and taking a limo to boot. She's a teacher. She can afford it (especially in my area, where all the teachers are prima donnas and are bleeding the elderly dry through property taxes).

A few months go by and the date draws near for serious fins to the left action. I mention to him the date, to make sure we don't have anything to get out, and he mentions that he would be out of the country anyway on a cruise with g/f. And then it hits me. He actually planned the trip so that g/f couldn't go to the concert, as there was a very slight possibility that she and soon-to-be ex could run into each other and tell tales and compare notes.

That is effed up.

Thanks for letting me rant on this. He ticks me off to no end, and acts very annoyed that he has to pay so much for child support. BTW, he never actually paid his wife/soon to be ex for any of the work she did for him, yet bitches about the money she took out of the account. I want to say something, but I'm walking a fine line in the situation as it is.

Docs tell people when a good time to stop having children, is because of health reasons, due to a woman's eggs getting old...

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lab mom