1905 Barney Frank

What exactly does your rant against Barney Frank have to do with children or the childfree? This is a CHILDFREE rant board, not a general rant board.

And why do you say Barney Frank is a "pervert"? Do you think all gay men are perverts just because they are gay?

At least Barney Frank did not molest children or teenagers like Mark Foley did. And THAT is the difference! So don't try to spin this like it's a liberal vs. conservative issue, because it's not.

Ah, I was wondering when the Republican "talking points" were going to come out about this issue. So I take it that "Smear the Queer" is the strategy? How lovely.

Don't neo-cons ever get dizzy from all that spinning?

Drink the koolaid!
Mmmm! Mindless-ey!

I think Frank didn't get in as much trouble because prostitution is the purest form of capitalism, and all capitalistic endeavors are good. No one was making money off Foley, and Foley was making no money for no one. Bad Foley.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Allowing a prostitution business, (gay or straight) to be run out of your house IS perverted! Therefore, he (Barney Frank) is a pervert. Slam dunk.

Oh good lord, do we have another troll on our hands?

Boogie Man Wrote:
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> Allowing a prostitution business, (gay or
> straight) to be run out of your house IS
> perverted! Therefore, he (Barney Frank) is a
> pervert. Slam dunk.

It may be illegal or unethical, but it would not fall under the dictionary definition of "perverted".

Gays in Congress, while not exactly a dime a dozen these days, are also not the anomaly they once were. And it really wasn’t that long ago (1987, to be exact) when Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank -- outspoken, pugnacious, a true party Democrat through and through -- came out to his colleagues, to his constituents, to the world.
It was a moment in American gay history unlike any other.

And you would have thought that it would have been the one big moment for Congressman Frank.

But other moments followed -- and they weren’t always always quite so positive.

In 1989, Frank was enmeshed in a scandal devised by Steve Gobie, a male prostitute he’d hired. Gobie claimed to have run an escort service from the Congressman’s (taxpayer paid) apartment, and charged Frank as its ringmaster.

From Wikipedia.org - see the last paragraph

Perversion is a term and concept describing those types of human behavior that are perceived to be a deviation from what is considerd to be orthodox or normal. It was originally defined as a "deviation from the original meaning or doctrine", literally a "turning aside" from the norm. The term pervert is a person in a state of perversion, though this term, referring to a person instead of a behavior, is generally used in a derogatory sense. Perversion, or perverse behavior, differs from deviant behavior, which describes a recognized violation of social rules or norms (though the two terms can apply to the same behavior).

Before the 20th century, the term usually meant religious perversion, i.e., changing one's religion to an erroneous one. In that sense, who was considered a pervert always depended on one's point of view. In the present day, the term most often refers to "sexual perversions", more neutrally called paraphilias, many of which can contribute to sex crimes. The term, in a general sense, is most often applied to the more abnormal or disturbed types of sexual behavior, mainly those involving compulsion and coercion. Used casually, the term can be meant to simply describe someone who is seen as having "dirty", "unnatural" or ambiguous thoughts. Still, the definition and usage of the concept can vary by such variables as time, person, religion, and culture; and what some would describe as perversion, others might say is simply a variant form of human sexuality.

Homosexuality was once considered to be a perversion in many cultures, and indeed still is in some; it is nevertheless widely seen in the western world today as a natural sexual variation.

Well, Wikipedia isn't a real encyclopedia or dictionary and I can only hope you don't use it as your main source of information.

Prostitution is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS wherein one person arranges with another person to perform services for items of value. Prostitution in and of itself does not fit under the definition of perversion, unless you find the act of trading things of value for services rendered a perversion. Maybe you're a communist, I don't know.

Under their prostitutional contract, people may indeed agree to do things that are " a deviation from what is considerd to be orthodox or normal." But again, the simple act of trading goods for services does not fit.

1. A woman and a man are dating. The woman states she will not "put out" until marrage, the man agrees to that and eventually buys her a ring. While most people agree this is normal, and even preferred, behavior, in the strictest sense, it is prostitution. Once she gets the wedding ring, purchased by another, on her finger then they will engage in sexual relations.

2. A woman and a man meet on the street. The man offers the woman money to engage in the missionary sexual position. She accepts, and the act is performed. They go their seperate ways.

The only real difference in these two scenarios is that in one, the people probably have known eachother for several days, and may indeed be together for several months, if not years. In the second, the people probably have just met, and may never meet again. In both cases, however, something of value is traded for a sexual service.

I am under the impression that most people consider prostitution the "oldest profession in the book" and accept it's existence. While in it's specifics (sex for money) it may not be considered "normal" in terms of employment, it is indeed a perfectly normal institution, and about as far from perversion as I can possibly imagine.

And another thing...
It is entirely prossible for a person to run a prostitution scheme out of a home they live in with out their housemates finding out. It can be called many things, unattended teens, slutty relatives or even a professional escort service. It doesn't always mean the place with red lamp shades, tacky furnature and a parade of whores and johns 24-7. Under the strictest sense of the word, someone's sister offering boys blow jobs in the basement if they stop by with some beers has turned that home in to a "house of prostitution". A person managing the schedules of out-call escorts can very easly run a service in a home without the other occupants knowing.

Feh Wrote:
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> Well, Wikipedia isn't a real encyclopedia or
> dictionary and I can only hope you don't use it as
> your main source of information.
>
I don't. However, I didn't feel like opening up my Webster's and typing the whole thing out. I figured Wikipedia would do in a pinch.

Besides, I was making the exact same point you were, so I'm not sure why you're attacking me. I don't consider prostitution or homosexuality to be perversions either.

Feh Wrote:
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> 1. A woman and a man are dating. The woman states
> she will not "put out" until marrage, the man
> agrees to that and eventually buys her a ring.
> While most people agree this is normal, and even
> preferred, behavior, in the strictest sense, it is
> prostitution. Once she gets the wedding ring,
> purchased by another, on her finger then they will
> engage in sexual relations.

That is the oldest form of prostitution. At least, streetwalkers and "escorts" are more honest about their intentions...

D'oh. I got the arguements and people confused because I wasn't reading carefully....
Nevermind,
Emily Litella

and I wasn't even drunk.
:kill

So...what you're saying is that it was very possible that Hassett didn't know about Foley, and Barney Frank may not have known about his roommate. Is that what you want me to believe? My mother told me I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Boy are you gullible.

I said nothing about Hastert, Foley or Frank. However, I am quite confident that Hastert did know about Foley because he was told numerous times by several individuals.
What I did say is that it is entirely possible for people to not actually know the entirety of what is going on in their own homes, and to give some pretty solid examples of ways prostitution can occur in a home, or how a home could house a prostitution ring without all occupants knowing.

I don't care what you believe, but did your mother know everything you did in her home? Highly doubtful. I know for a fact that my mother doesn't know everything I did in her home.

Keep in mind that even though most of these senators keep apartments in DC, they also spend a great deal of time at their primary residences in their home states. It's entirely possible that Barney Frank spent very little time in his DC apartment (hence the roommate) and may have had no idea what was going on there. The roommate probably had advance notice of when Frank would be in town and would be able to easily hide any evidence. Just a theory anyway.