Medicaid for illegals' babies

I'm with you on that one DHP!!!

This has been a sore point with me for a long time. Why on Earth do so many people think we owe these criminals anything?! I have absolutely no sympathy for them, or their children. They come over here, take jobs that Americans WILL do, but cannot take, because they've depressed the wages so much. They pay no income tax, yet demand every perk in the book, and if it isn't in that book, well, they just find some idiot to lobby for their "rights." What rights? Oh, the right to bleed us taxpayers dry? The right to insist that everyone learn Spanish, to preserve their "culture?" Or, how about the right to send all that money home to Mexico, Guatamala, etc., while we pick up the tab for their entire existence? I'm sick to death of hearing about how they only want a better life. I see no evidence of that, because they are hell- bent on bringing their problems with them. They do nothing to improve their lives once they're here, they expect us to do that for them.

I am tired of the politically correct crowd labeling these illegal immigrants as "undocumented workers". Are they next going to call a person who is a burglar in someone's house or robber an "uninvited guest" who should be allowed to stay on? I am also tired of the "Press #1 for English".

Where I had a condo in the SF Bay Area, values went way down when owners of other condos actually rented to these illegals where there were as many as 10 people to a two-bedroom/one-bathroom unit. I spoke to the homeowners association but was told that the laws actually protected these people because a landlord could not evict based on the number of people in the rental.

I had to take the bus around for about a month or so when a car loaded with illegals hit my car. Of course, the driver was uninsured. Taking the bus was not the problem. It was being accosted on the street by these male illegals who thought I was some "hot mamacita" who appreciated sexual remarks. I stopped using the pool during the summer and didn't even like walking to the cluster of mail boxes.

WOW, Catmommy...that sucks!

I would have thought a city like San Francisco, that regulates everything and anything, would have very strict rental compliance laws. I am surprised the city fire marshal would allow that kind of occupancy. In LA, the regs are very strictly enforced, almost to the point of distraction.

When I lived in the condo in Westwood, our HOA would not permit rentals to any more than 1.5 parties per bedroom. Kept out the serial breeders and heavily punished the homeowners if they tried.

I am also sick of the political correctness, but in California you can't say boo.

Today, when talking to one of my contacts in the advertising industry, he told me that some shitbrained moo bitched about those corny GEICO caveman commercials because "hate and discrimination should not be trivialized". I don't think the stupid cunt knew it was satirical. These perpetually traumatized and offended people need a good swift kick in the ass and a lifetime prescription for antidepressants. I wish the dumb fucks would just get the fuck over it!

Illegals wouldn't be here if it weren't for corporations recruiting, and hiring, them in order to increase their almighty profits another couple percentage points.

If people want to come to the U.S. honestly, learn English and take the proper steps for a green card or citizenship, I have no problem with that. But no, they should NOT be allowed to come here and then sponge off of US.

Dragon-Holding-Pearl, you mentioned the *for English, press 1* thing on so many phone menus. This pandering to those who want to live here but can't be arsed to learn the language pisses me off, too. I mean, even if I were to go on vacation in a country where English is not the national language, I'd at least make an attempt to learn the native language...even if I just bought a phrase book or something.

One of the good things that came from the last administration here in Massachusetts is doing away with bi-lingual education in the public schools. I saw it as a waste of taxpayer dollars, as they were teaching in Spanish FOREVER, not just as a transitional thing. I can see ESL classes, for both kids and parents who are new to this country, but this endless pandering to them when they won't learn English is bullshit.

My great-grandparents were immigrants from Norway back in the early 20th century. There was no welfare back then. They came here, learned English (even though they still spoke Norwegian at home to each other), and found jobs...Nana even started her own business, an antique shop in NYC. They also didn't breed like rabbits...they just had one child, my paternal grandmother.

If people like them could make do on their own, why the fuck can't these lazy-assed immigrants do so now?

It would be great if we could just get rid of the welfare state entirely - that would remove any incentive for people to come here and sponge. Including our homegrown deadbeats.

I think we should completely privatize education and let the parents decide whether they want to send their kids to bilingual schools or English-only.

As for immigrants learning English, I guess I don't really care whether they do or not. It's no skin of my nose if they don't - it only makes life harder for them not to learn it. I've been to Europe and was impressed by how many people speak several languages. Granted in Europe you don't have to drive very far to get to a country where people speak another language, but jeez, here in the U.S. we hear someone speak Spanish and think the sky is falling. Take a walk around NYC some time and try and count how many different languages you hear being spoken. I see it as a COOL thing.

but its when you force everyone else to change to learn your language..

i live in the UK, and for a 900 mile long, 400 miles wide at the widest point, we have... irish (gaelic) scottish (another version of gaelic) welsh, cornish, plus dialects that are nearly languages themselves, plus we have indian, thai, lao, german, french, italian, polish, etc etc.. each woth their own language, but if the welsh forces everyone to press 1 for english, and has everything changed for the minority..

then isnt that wrong. i have no problem in people coming to the UK, so long as they know we have our own rules, own laws, that as an immigrant they have to obey, and one of the things its best to do is learn the language.

too much of the seperatist idealogy, i only speak whatever, i dont need to speak this language, causes all the divisions we see in the immigrant groups.

they see that they dont have to respect the country they are in, they dont have to obey the rules of civilised behaviour, as they are somehow "better" than others.

what would happen if we all went to mexico and made them change all the lables to english,(or american), or make them change the phone system to make english the prefered language.. they would be in uproar.

but thats the whole point one rule for one and one for the others, it should be integration, look at the chinese immigrants the norwegians, the germans,and laoations they all integrated without the preferential treatment the mexicans got, integrate, dont segregate.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

What I don't like is when people, of any stripe, move to an area and then freak out when the "values" or "morals" of that area don't match the "values" or "morals" of the area they've moved from. I'm not moving to the bible belt or the middle east, simply because I completely and utterly disagree with having religion shoved up my ass, or having to follow the laws of a religion I do not subscribe to. A few months ago, I recall seeing a bit on the Daily Show with a x-tian fundie who was expressing horror at the displays in the windows in the sex shops in his San Fransisco neighborhood, which has been predominantly gay, and very adult, for the past 30 years at least. I recall hearing this summer about how the Netherlands had made a special video to help "introduce" certian groups, like muslims, to their society. Once these lucky folks had gained admittance, and I think citizenship, they would freak out and try to change things when they discovered people enjoying the full freedoms that society has to offer. Seriously, WTF? I got some sad news for you sunshine, but if you think everyone is going to be grateful when you come stomping in with your holy texts, chidren and messed up personal issues with the human body, you are sorely mistaken.

What I don't like is when people, usually white people, are born and raised in the FREE land and they don't seem to want to share it with anyone else. America is supposedly the land of the free--so why can't people come here and be free? People are so much against immigration, but I ask them, "How'd you get here? Are you 100% Native American?" No! Their ancestors immigrated here years ago. If America gets rid of welfare, the only people who come over here are the ones who work. I personally believe that immigrants are creating more jobs than they're taking...for one person, such as an immigrant, you need food service, housing, clothes, much more. As for taxes, why does anyone pay them? If anyone's seen the movie "America: Freedom to Fascism", you know what I'm talking about. There is absolutely NO law that says you have to pay your income taxes. Many people have gone to court trials for not paying, and when they ask the IRS or the judge to show them the law, they step around this and can't. Many non tax-payers have won these trials. So back to the immigrants...what about sales tax? Do they get around paying for goods and the tax that's added? No, if they refused to pay sales tax, there's no way they could live. Sales tax is on almost everything. Immigrants don't pay income tax because they work under the table, however, like I said they have to pay sales tax, and every other tax, and unlike Americans, they don't get the money back at the end of the year. They don't get social security or any benefits related to working. We do. If you were the owner of a company would you pay the immigrant $7.00 an hour or a white man $13.00 an hour? Why does the government get to decide who you can and cannot hire? Why can't Mexico tell Americans that we aren't allowed over there, also? I wish they would, it might make Americans realize what exactly is going on.

Sorry for the rant. I just believe that all people--and all beings, are equal. I also believe everyone should have the same rights. I'm not picking on one person here, I'm picking on America as a whole. If we'd clean up our system, we'd be able to be the free country for all people like we used to be.

yes all people should be equal, its when one group gets preferential treatment over any others, thats wrong..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Quote

What I don't like is when people, usually white people, are born and raised in the FREE land and they don't seem to want to share it with anyone else. America is supposedly the land of the free--so why can't people come here and be free?

Because we don't want the US to turn into Calcutta. Because it's not fair that so many people wait years to emigrate, while others climb over a fence. Because America is not rich enough to support the entire world. Because we have the right to enforce our laws.

Check out Mexico's draconian anti-immigrant laws sometime. Foreigners aren't allowed to work, own property or use social services.

TimsGirl139 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I don't like is when people, usually white
> people, are born and raised in the FREE land and
> they don't seem to want to share it with anyone
> else. America is supposedly the land of the
> free--so why can't people come here and be free?

If you are willing to pay for all of the immigrants and their babies in the Land of the Free, be my guest. It does cost to live in a "free land". You are paying the cost for these babies to be born here and for illegals to have their benefits.

As for employers hiring illegals for less pay than an American, I doubt you or anyone in your family would be so gleeful if you were standing in the unemployment line if both of you lost your jobs to cheap labour from illegals.

Please don't use the "white issue" to play a racist card. Immigration laws are also very strict in Jamaica, the Dominican Republic, and certain African nations.

Well, didn't mean to make anyone that mad. However, there is something called competition. If you don't like that idea, it's not good to be living in America. And as for me "standing in the unemployment line", that's fine, it really is. Because many people are in that situation, not only because of the "illegals", and guess what? I CAN FIND ANOTHER JOB. I don't have to look for the same job and get stuck in a situation where I'm not working at all. Too many lazy Americans do this. You can always find another job, and work yourself back up.

And I'd love to pay for other people to live here. We do anyway, and it's only right for other people to come here and live "freely". I believe in equal rights enough to agree, yes, sure, I'll "pay for the illegals". I also believe the immigrants should get benefits. I believe they should pay some things into our system, yes, but they should also get benefits.

I'm not being racist by saying white people are doing this. Because a) they are, I personally have never heard an African American complaining and b) I am white and I'm fed up with my race, and c) aren't we the ones being racist? Calling Mexicans "illegals"?

Is it good to enforce bad laws? If you had been living in the 1930s, would you be willing to hand a Jewish person over to the Nazis knowing they would die?

Again, I did not mean to make anyone pissed off...however, I do believe in my morals. As I said earlier, in my last post, I believe in equal rights, too, and we as Americans are not giving Mexicans equal rights. We need to set up our system better to be able to accept Mexicans into our society. And all of that (excuse me) CRAP about them HAVING to learn our "culture"...first of all, when we visit other countries, we don't have to learn their culture. They still have to know how to speak English in many tourist spots in other countries so WE are welcome! What makes us so special? I understand when an American moves to another country, then we learn their culture...because we LIVE there. If we'd let the Mexican people come over, they could learn our culture by living here...freely...as the founding fathers intended.

It is absolutely amazing that you support illegal immigration, TimsGirl139. I guess it is also acceptable if someone broke into your home, refused to leave, and was labeled an "uninvited guest". Most of us can find other jobs but it is not our place to hand our country to those who do not want to obey our laws and refuse to learn the language.

It is your choice to believe in what you want and to hold your morals by supporting illegal behaviour. It is a free country...especially those looking for handouts and wanting to support those who come over here expecting the Land of the Free to take care of their "anchor" babies. Do you also support rampant breeding from the illegals? Personally, I am tired of my taxes paying for services for illegal immigrants and I support the fence being built.

African-Americans have also complained about this issue as well so it is not just a "white issue".

If you love these illegals so much, please...by all means...move into one of their neighbourhoods. I doubt you would like it much. Kindness does not mean allowing others to take advantage. The Jewish people being killed by the Nazis are far different than Mexicans or Central Americans sneaking into the US for financial gain.

Anyway, enough out of me...

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=/SpecialReports/archive/200608/SPE20060821a.html

**(CNSNews.com) - The chief law enforcement officers of several Texas counties along the southern U.S. border warn that Arabic-speaking individuals are learning Spanish and integrating into Mexican culture before paying smugglers to sneak them into the United States. The Texas Sheriffs' Border Coalition believes those individuals are likely terrorists and that drug cartels and some members of the Mexican military are helping them get across the border.
**

now.. tims are you unemployed, have you been treated as scum because you cant find a job, when other groups in this case mexicans (in the uk its chinese mostly).. and they will work for less, employers wont hire the regular people, businesses are there to make money.

immigrants who take the time to learn and respect the country they are great people, part of that respect is learning the language, giving to the country.

there are a lot of illegals who dont respect the laws , culture of the country they move too. should there be a complete open door policy, NO why you ask, well if illegals are allowed then criminals will come with them.

its all about respect, people who come and expect a free hand out like with medicaid for illegals then thats taking the bread out of the legal residents of the country. the more illegals get the more they want and the more they take from YOU. YOU become worse off, you become 2nd class in your own country.

if they did all the immigration rules and become an american citizen, then they arent mexicans.. why should america or the UK, have to look after everyone else over their own people. and it isnt racist. and a visit is different to living there, if i was going to france i wouldnt expect them to all learn english and bow down to me, same with china, same with every other culture, if you want to live there permanently then you must obey the rules of that place, and you must show respect by learning the language

now as to handing over people to the nazis, if you were jewish.. well in the 1930's they didnt really know what was going on, they first kicked them out, then only later did they send men and women and children to the death camps. how do i know, my aunt was in germany she was jewish, and her father got her out and her brother, then went back for the rest of his family, and his wife gave him up to the nazi's she wanted stuff for herself. so she told the nazis, and they all ended up in dachau and auschwitz and everyone died. but the 2 he got out.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I am totally with you, Mercurior.

It always amazes me -- even though it shouldn't -- when people like TimsGirl and someone I used to know on a job says that it is acceptable to pay illegals $3-7 hourly rather than pay an American a decent wage to do the same job. I do doubt that TimsGirl or the fellow I had the misfortune of working with would be happy to see their wages lowered to the same pay if "competition" got bad enough where our own people had to accept less. This has happened...maybe not on such a grand scale. It is always okay when someone else is taking sh*t wages. Why shouldn't our own people be paid a proper wage? It is not as if the cost of living is going down.

Where I had my condo in the SF Bay Area many moons ago, I found out after my ex-husband and I got the place how many owners rented to illegals. The night parties were horrible with the people downstairs breaking beer bottles in the streets. When my then-husband asked for the noise to stop since he went to work early in the a.m., he was told by our illustrious neighbours how this is how life is lived in Tijuana. My former spouse is from Argentina. He and his family came over here LEGALLY when he was eight. The family members all learned the language of the land and respected the laws so my dislike towards ILLEGAL immigrants has nothing to do with race.

I got to love those with "morals" who applaud those illegals breaking the laws of our country and then wanting to pay for all of these people. Many European nations are also tired of the immgration issue. A lot of Europeans are having to deal with Muslim illegals...and some legal immigrants who come to those countries demanding that their host country is to change for their religion. "Uncovered" women are attacked and journalists are threatened if anything is published that question this behaviour.

Mercurior, you are also right about visiting vs. livng in another country. I have visited other countries. In most tourist areas, some English is spoken due to economics. However, I never expected that MY language is to be spoken because I am there visiting. Often, I had to adjust how I speak so I could be understood or tried to learn some phrases. Those little books are helpful.

Speaking of Muslims and Arabs, a lot of them are coming in through Mexico...

Americans are not the only people against illegal immigration.

Canadians pay very high taxes for a national health care system as well as other benefits. Canada is very pro-immigration yet people coming over have to wait just as in the United States. I worked with a woman - a single mother - who loved Toronto and had an idealized vision of living in Canada. She met a man on a job who had a US green card but kept his Canadian citizenship. The fellow had come over here when he married an American woman but that marriage went bust.

Long story short, Boyfriend wanted to return to Canada due to a health condition feeling that he would get better medical care in his own country. Woman went with him thinking she was an automatic shoo-in for citizenship due to the "companion clause" since they lived together for a year and paid bills together...true meaning is that she supported HIM and wasted an inheritance from her parent on this @ss.

Funny thing is that Boyfriend made Woman enter Canada ALONE by pushing her out of the U-Haul truck in Detroit telling her to take the subway into Toronto. He just pointed down the street and she was lucky to find the station. So, her passport gets stamped as a "tourist" while Boyfriend just drives in as a resident with all of the furniture.

Woman is in for a rude awakening when she realised she could only get a lower-paying job since most employers will not risk heavy fines by hiring illegals, which is what this white American was in Canada. The single moo also gets very offended when she cannot use Canada's universal health care system due to not having a social insurance number. She felt that Canada should bow to her and pay for her & one of the kids she brought with her.

Long story now comes to an end when she and Boyfriend decided to come back to the USA. By the way, Boyfriend refused to work in Canada even though call centers offered to hire him since that was his background for work in the States. He felt too good for those jobs and thought he was going to be a banker. So...back "home" they come with Woman's tail between her legs after Canada refused to support her. Boo-hoo to her...:bawl

This issue goes worldwide...

I gotta speak up for TimsGirl here - I'm totally on board. I'm less upset about illegals breaking the laws than I am upset that the laws are so draconian and stupid in the first place. (I say the same thing about our draconian, stupid drug laws. Thomas Jeffeson himself said that when laws are unjust, it is our civic duty to break them.)

I don't give a RIP if some high school dropout thinks he should be entitled to $13 an hour at a job a Mexican will do for $7. Native-born Americans have no excuse for not taking advantage of the opportunities they have by being born here. They get a taxpayer-provided education and learn English as their primary language.

The amount of money any job is "worth" depends on the supply and demand for the skills needed for that job. If you are a mouth-breathing dullard who has nothing but the skills required to stand in place and pick your nose, you have a lot of company. But there are only so many low-skilled jobs to go around, so you should expect your wages to reflect that. If you want to make more money, then suck it up and learn some skills that are in low supply and high demand.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/36222.html

A lot of high skilled jobs are no longer in demand because outsourcers are willing to the work for pennies on the dollar in other countries or some employers can use work visas to their advantage to bring in immigrants to do the work here for less. No one is asking for a high school drop-out with zero skills to be paid $13 an hour. I do believe most people want the "unjust" immigration laws to be broken so they can continue to get their cheap labour and products. When it hits them personally, then the attitude is different.

My former co-worker felt the immigration laws in Canada were not "just" and tried to break them. Look what happened to her! Many burglars may feel the laws are not "just" but it does not give them a right to break into my home and possibly take up residence as an uninvited guest. I, for one, am tired of my tax dollars going to pay for illegals to birth their "anchor" babies in this country as well as other burdens -- jobs, housing, crime, etc. Maybe I should break this "unjust" law and refuse to pay my taxes so that others who want the illegals to break our laws & expect us to pay for their babies can suck up and pay my share for them. Be my guest...

I don't think my taxes should be going to support ANYONE, whether they are here legally or not. That is a separate issue. I think the entire income tax should be abolished and replaced by the Fairtax, which is a retail sales tax and would be paid by everyone - including illegal immigrants, drug dealers, and anyone else who is avoiding payroll withholdings and being paid on a cash basis. If illegals are coming here and getting on welfare, all the more reason to get rid of welfare, in my view.

But statistically, the only people in America who experience wage deflation as a result of illegal immigration are high-school dropouts. Also (statistically) illegals are more likely to hold down jobs than American citizens. Immigrants, both legal and illegal, create a net contribution to GNP rather than a drain on our taxes.

Here's a few examples of why illegals make it harder and more expensive for everyone:

1. They have no health insurance, so that makes the wait longer, and more expensive for everyone at the ER. They use the ER like it's a clinic. Uninsured Americans go without- they'll get a huge bill if they go in for treatment. Illegals get it for free.

2. Illegals drive on our roads without paying any taxes to maintain them. They drive without any insurance, so we pay higher premiums. Try recovering damages from an illegal if they hit you.

3. Pray that you don't lose your job. The first question out of an interviewers' mouth is "are you bilingual?"

4. One of the biggest reasons for dumbing- down our schools is due to the fact that so many kids do not speak English. Also, the class sizes are huge. 100% of this is caused by immigration. Every study done supports that. We pay for it.

5. They send huge amounts of tax- free earnings back to Mexico, etc., to support their families "back home." Yet WE support their families, here. They are eligible for every benefit the US has to offer.

I work hard for my measley paycheck. It makes me very angry that the take home pay for illegals is probably equal to, or MORE than mine. I get angry when I'm in line at the supermarket, and I see an illegal family with 5 or 6 kids under the age of 10, buying better quality food with their food stamps, than I could ever afford. And the knowledge that I'm paying for it really chaps my ass.

I may kick myself for even getting into this discussion...but here goes.

Being an American of northern European descent does give one a number of perks unavailable to blacks, Mexicans, and other "darker" folks. That's just a fact. If you are white, people probably will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are law-abiding and work for a living. If you're dark-skinned, you may not be so lucky. Interestingly, the majority of folks on welfare are white; so much for the lazy minority stereotype. Also, you will probably be better paid for doing similar work as your minority co-worker. And U.S. culture is largely set up by, and for, the majority who are white. Do you really want to trade places with an illegal immigrant, assuming you could?

Again the old bugaboo, taxation, creeps in. Nobody likes paying taxes, not even progressives. But I'd sure as hell rather pay taxes to help an illegal's kids get a decent start in life, rather than pay for the correctional system to put them in later. Maybe that's just me...check the Fourteenth Amendment, BTW. Anyone born in the U.S. is automatically a citizen. The kids, anyway, are not "illegals."

One last thought: my great-great grandfather was from Ireland, came to America around 1850. The Irish were NOT welcomed with open arms; they were the Mexicans of their time! Funny how "the more things change, the more they stay the same."

Sprogless, regarding your examples, #1 has already happened to me -- back in 1991. My car, while parked, hit by another car full of illegals. Unfortunately, the area where my then-husband and I lived was full of these people. I could not collect a penny. *I* got to pay the bill for the repairs. Gee...aren't we so lucky to have these people in our country?

Number #2 has happened to my boss, a Puerto Rican man who works very hard. His wife, who is also Puerto Rican, works hard. The baby got very sick with a high fever. The pediatrician's office was closed so off to the ER my boss went after work one night. He and the baby had to wait SIX hours. My boss told me how the waiting room was full of American drunks and illegals waiting for their free care while he had to pay a heavy deductable.

Number #3 is all over the place. Qualified Americans for even the better jobs are now being required to speak Spanish if they want to be hired. This is not only happening on the sh*t jobs that many members here think they will never have to work and snub their nose at due to education. Why should we learn another person's language in our own country? I have heard learning the language is a requirement to emigrate (or is it "immigrate") to Icelenad.

I have to go to work so I will leave #4 & #5 alone for now...

Wowie wow wow. I'd just have to say, how'd your family get here? Mine immigrated, probably illegally for the most part, spoke their native languages pretty much until my grandparent's generation. Hell, up until WWII, there were entire towns in my state where German or Norwegian was the 'official' language, and town documents reflect that. If you've ever visited a china town or little india, you will meet many, many people who speak mostly their native language, and seem to be doing just fine.

People come here for the opportunity to make money. Do you think they come to harvest our money trees OR do they actually WORK FOR AN AMERICAN EMPLOYER WHO PAYS THEM MONEY? More likely than not it's the employer, and that's why they come here... because people will pay them money to work. If EMPLOYERS didn't pay them money to work, they wouldn't be here. It's human nature to want to better your lot in life, and they are simply following their human nature in the easiest way possible. Why are all those guys hanging out in the parking lot at Home Depot? Because they know some suburban mook would much rather pay them $5 per hour to build a deck, than pay an american contractor twice as much for the same job. It's not that they're taking jobs americans won't do, they're taking wages americans won't take. American companies see this as a great thing because then they get to...(say it with me now)...INCREASE THEIR ALMIGHTY PROFIT MARGIN, and the CEO gets to buy a gold plated toilet for his stupid ass. Hell, if I knew I could go to Canada with 10 of my friends, pay like $50 a month for an apartment, and the rest is profit for me PLUS I'd get health care, I'd be there in a minute working for 7 bucks an hour. Follow the money guys, the immigrants are just taking advantage of the system where profit is all that matters. The only reason they're here working for cheap is because the corporation simply can not move to where they are and pay them even less. It simply wouldn't be profitable to send the dirty dishes to mexico to be washed for 60 cents an hour, and then ship the clean ones back here.

Most illegals do pay taxes, and social security, because they work for corporate entities. It's the employers who fudge the records to reflect a false citizenship, and the taxes still get taken out of their checks.

I have no problems paying to help support society. People HAVE to, it's how society works. Ideally the people with the means pay to support those without the means, or who can not support themselves. Ideally everyone who earns money pays a certian amount of that money to provide services that EVERYONE uses. More likely than not, publically funded education is where YOU learned to read, write and do math. Publically funded roads are how YOU get from point A to point B. Public health, paid for by YOUR taxes, is what keeps epidemic plagues from sweeping through our communities every generation or so and killing off 70% of us. If you don't want to spend money on books, it's the public funding which allows us to have giant buildings full of books that people can borrow, read and return. It's public funding which allows you to go less than a couple miles to your polling place to vote.

There is plenty of money to go around, it's just a matter of distribution. If the 3% of the people who have 40% of the wealth only pay 10% of their income in taxes, versus the 80% of the people who have 50% of the wealth and pay 30% of their income in taxes, don'cha think that maybe, just maybe, there might be something wrong with that distribution system? Hmmm...seriously, it's not the people at the bottom who are the problem, they might be able to whine and complain and give you a hassle personally, but they don't have ANY POWER to make ANY CHANGES. The people at the top, who are schmoozing with the politicans, and paying them off, and NOT paying taxes, and moving their companies overseas, and paying their workers nothing, and cheaping out on materials are the ones who actually make the decisions that actually affect YOU.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

You all are so FAST with your typing. But about sprogless's points, since you were so kind to number them..
1. Um there are almost 50,000,000 uninsured, legal, americans who are also using the ER as their "clinic" of choice. That doesn't even count the millions upon millions of "insured" workers who can't afford their copays or who have crappy ass coverage. I was one of those uninsured for many years and to be honest, some days my employer provided insurance is all that keeps me working. I've never been to an emergency room where a several hour wait didn't happen, unless I was with someone who was on the verge of death, or in the midst of a psychotic episode. Keep in mind there are also millions of legal americans who drive every day without insurance, or drivers liscenses. Just because someone has come here "illegally" doesn't mean they're going to go around murdering, raping and abusing the system any more than being a natural born american keeps you from doing those things.

2. Illegals who are hired by businesses and are paid above board do pay taxes. It's the citizenship which is fudged by the employer to allow this. Illegals wouldn't come here if they didn't know that they'd get paid by an AMERICAN to do work.

3. Well, are you? Really, most of the world is billingual, if not tri or quadralingual. Most countries actually ENCOURAGE their citizens to know more than one language, because it makes communication easier. And, thanks to imperialism, the second language in most contries is english, which works to our benefit, or detriment depending on your view point. We get to go overseas and still act like ignorant rubes, because we know for sure that someone will know our language if we make enough noise.

4. Actually the biggest reason for dumbing down our schools is because of the "no child left behind" act which requires standardized testing. Kids are no longer taught to think, reason, or use their problem solving skills. They are taught to know the answers to the questions that are on that test. The second biggest reason is parents. They've acheived such a high level of economic success, the only real way they can hope for a "better life" for their kids is in the self-esteem and social areas. If a kid gets a failing grade, the teacher gets a frantic, threatening call to raise that grade or face the wrath of the administration. If a kid doesn't get on a team, the coach gets a call to put Snotley on the team because he feels bad he didn't make the cut. Tag is too competitive, and the risk of injury is too great. Kids feel bad if they fail, so let's not let teachers fail kids.

5.Again, how'd they get those earnings? An american paid them that money. There are millions of legal immigrants who do the exact same thing.


I am always amazed when people blame the immigrants for problems when they wouldn't be here if AMERICANS weren't hiring them.