Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian
Posted by screaming sausage
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Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 28, 2015 |
As someone who may be about to start the Essure journey (albeit at 33) I found this rant from a CF 29-year-old interesting and utterly depressing at the same time- and it's refreshing to see a CF person being given a platform, of course!
Full article here:
Why can’t I get sterilised in my 20s?
Some great comments below the line but also plenty of bingos in there, naturally
Quote
We’re fortunate to live in a country [the UK] where women’s healthcare is mostly progressive and fair, where abortions can be obtained and contraceptives are free. But ask the NHS for a sterilisation in your 20s, and every door is slammed in your face. I should know: I’ve asked four times in the last three years and been refused every time.
The first time I asked for a permanent end to my fertility I was 26. I was recently out of a long relationship where we both agreed on a child-free life and back on the dating scene. Explaining my child-free stance to stranger after stranger was wearing, but made me think harder about why I’d made my choice. As I repeatedly explained, I’ve probably put more thought into my decision not to have children than many people put into their decision to have them.
The condescension came thick and fast: you’re too young, you’ll change your mind, who’ll look after you in your old age, how can any woman not want children, how can you be so selfish? Even people who only seemed interested in casual dating would instantly lose interest when I mentioned my disinclination to reproduce – one man walked away in the middle of a three-minute speed-dating session because I didn’t want to be a mother. Clearly, other people felt as strongly about my decision as I did.
Unfortunately, so did the first GP I spoke to. He trotted out all the usual comments (to strong opposition), followed by telling me he couldn’t “in good conscience†make a permanent decision when I was still “so youngâ€. Having hoped for at least an in-depth discussion before being rejected, I was disappointed but not surprised. Resigned to another year of side-effects on the pill, I asked the GP to put a comment in my medical notes so I could build a stronger case later.
For the record, the reason I don’t want children is both simple and complex. I just don’t want them. I never have.
Full article here:
Why can’t I get sterilised in my 20s?
Some great comments below the line but also plenty of bingos in there, naturally
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 28, 2015 |
Good god the comments on her page are so all over the place, bunch of whishy-washy breeders trying to have a moooo about being nearly 30 is childlike so long as you haven't bred, but being mid twenty's with muliti brats is the height of intellectual opinion, so you can be 16 and knocked up, and your suddenly smarter and more worldly than a 30yr old, my god! if only I knew that when my mum was telling me I didn't know anything about being a responsible adult in my preggo free teens, I could a taught her a thing or two if only I got knocked up
z
On a less morbid view, at least some real child free people are on there, pointing out some good tricks like lieing about having bred just to get their operations done young, interesting tip, so if you say hey I tried, now I don't want to anymore, their okay with that :BS but saying, hey I never wanted to try and don't want to start now, that's instant denial, go back 3 spaces and don't collect personal happines
zOn a less morbid view, at least some real child free people are on there, pointing out some good tricks like lieing about having bred just to get their operations done young, interesting tip, so if you say hey I tried, now I don't want to anymore, their okay with that :BS but saying, hey I never wanted to try and don't want to start now, that's instant denial, go back 3 spaces and don't collect personal happines
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 28, 2015 |
Good GAWD the comments! 
eyes2
I always call my Mom on Wednesday eve's because she goes out to play Bingo and I want to see if she won.
She didn't - but WE SURE DID!
And on the age biz here / 29 is 'too young'. You know what I find funny? Is that at 29 you're too young, but at 30 - as a woman - you're OLD.
Oh and another funny thing is - it's just recently that women started reproducing in the late 20s and 30s. Look at all the people on there saying that 'you'll change your mind' / the bio clock will begin to strike between 30 and 35!
100 or so years ago Cows were blasting loaves out at 14, 15, and were likely Grand Mothers at 30. Oh but now all of a sudden 30 is the Magic Moo Age. Because - a) Everybody KNOWS that! Just let me tell you about the 2 or 3 women I know that make it so! b) Science.
Just look at the Breeding Populace - they're non sensical MORONS!
eyes2I always call my Mom on Wednesday eve's because she goes out to play Bingo and I want to see if she won.
She didn't - but WE SURE DID!
And on the age biz here / 29 is 'too young'. You know what I find funny? Is that at 29 you're too young, but at 30 - as a woman - you're OLD.
Oh and another funny thing is - it's just recently that women started reproducing in the late 20s and 30s. Look at all the people on there saying that 'you'll change your mind' / the bio clock will begin to strike between 30 and 35!
100 or so years ago Cows were blasting loaves out at 14, 15, and were likely Grand Mothers at 30. Oh but now all of a sudden 30 is the Magic Moo Age. Because - a) Everybody KNOWS that! Just let me tell you about the 2 or 3 women I know that make it so! b) Science.
Just look at the Breeding Populace - they're non sensical MORONS!
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 29, 2015 |
Since I don't want to start a new thread and this one is related, I have a bit of a CF victory from my visit to the gynecologist today. I asked about permanent sterilization and I wasn't bingoed, she just simply asked why I was seeking a permanent option. I was just asked some questions of my general health and how I dealt with anesthesia. Then she outlined three options: tubal ligation, Essure, and an IUD. After the checkup, she gave me some literature on Essure and the IUD and said that we'll go over it more when I return in a month.
So, finances willing, I could be sterilized with no hesitation! I've already exhausted my deductible and most of my out-of-pocket maximum with a surgery earlier in the month, so it might be relatively inexpensive. So fingers crossed.
------------------------------------------------------------
"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock
"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin
"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.
"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment
"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion
Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan
So, finances willing, I could be sterilized with no hesitation! I've already exhausted my deductible and most of my out-of-pocket maximum with a surgery earlier in the month, so it might be relatively inexpensive. So fingers crossed.
------------------------------------------------------------
"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock
"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin
"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.
"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment
"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion
Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 29, 2015 |
Checking for typos on the above - I thought of something else, kind of the opposite end and more sinister ~
Propaganda encouraging teen girls to breed. Such as the "Teen Mom" and "16 and pregnant" TV shows.
And before this, back in my child hood - Madonna's song "Papa Don't Preach".
The encouragement of the young and ill equipped to breed. Sickening. And IMO Madonna only got famous because she agreed to disseminate Propaganda. Why else did she? She was never really that great.
And who else at that time was making songs about being a young, unmarried, single parent? What a bizarre song. Thing of it - most songs are 'love songs'. Or, for some of the 'heavier' of the 'heavy metal' - they are songs about kicking ass or cars. That's pretty obscure too. 95% of mainstream music is love songs.
How many Young, Single Moo, songs - have you heard before? Or since?
IMO Madonna agreed to play ball with the Propagandists which is how and why she got famous. Ditto for Huey Lewis. It's hip to be square? Dafuq? Even as a little kid I remember hearing these songs and thinking they were weird. And trying to push some agenda. His name alone might've been an attempt to 'cover over' or distract people from the name of Black Panther Huey Newton. Give people a different association. Who in the hell writes a song with lyrics about 'watching what you eat'? And these things became mainstream "hits"? PROPAGANDA.
I think that was about the time that I began to question things. That's what I was doing as a Tween. Not fucking. Despite all the Propaganda I saw around me. And for the hold out 30 somethings there were TV shows like "30 something" (BARF), and Comfort Foods, and Nesting, and Famblee Values spewed from Saint Ronnie and his slag wife.
Huey Lewis did a song for her anti drug campaign, too.eyes2
I decided to go for the drugs, not sex
/ end tangent. Is relevant because I think Propaganda is still coloring Doc's sterilization opinions today. The middle aged Docs grew up when I did. Same age range. They were exposed to the same Propaganda about Famblee Values and Bio Clocks. Goes for the UK and Ronnie's pal Iron Lady Thatcher too - they got the same shit at the same time.
Notice too - how the stubborn resistance to Propaganda has the Right now looking to OUTLAW birth control. Notice also the promotion of adoption (over abortion.) - We're sliding back into the 50s. How soon before "Homes for Unwed Mothers" start popping up again?
Jack Nicholson just popped into my head. Many, back in the day, who kept the kids - their parents raised them as "siblings" to the birth mother. Aileen Wuornos. I'm sure there are plenty more ~
Or the kids were given to another family member, a childless Aunt and Uncle, or maybe to a family friend. Thank Jah you weren't CF in those days either - because you might have had a child that you did not want - foisted upon you. You might've been coerced to take it in.
Not sure, but I think that was fairly common also.
Propaganda encouraging teen girls to breed. Such as the "Teen Mom" and "16 and pregnant" TV shows.
And before this, back in my child hood - Madonna's song "Papa Don't Preach".
The encouragement of the young and ill equipped to breed. Sickening. And IMO Madonna only got famous because she agreed to disseminate Propaganda. Why else did she? She was never really that great.
And who else at that time was making songs about being a young, unmarried, single parent? What a bizarre song. Thing of it - most songs are 'love songs'. Or, for some of the 'heavier' of the 'heavy metal' - they are songs about kicking ass or cars. That's pretty obscure too. 95% of mainstream music is love songs.
How many Young, Single Moo, songs - have you heard before? Or since?
IMO Madonna agreed to play ball with the Propagandists which is how and why she got famous. Ditto for Huey Lewis. It's hip to be square? Dafuq? Even as a little kid I remember hearing these songs and thinking they were weird. And trying to push some agenda. His name alone might've been an attempt to 'cover over' or distract people from the name of Black Panther Huey Newton. Give people a different association. Who in the hell writes a song with lyrics about 'watching what you eat'? And these things became mainstream "hits"? PROPAGANDA.
I think that was about the time that I began to question things. That's what I was doing as a Tween. Not fucking. Despite all the Propaganda I saw around me. And for the hold out 30 somethings there were TV shows like "30 something" (BARF), and Comfort Foods, and Nesting, and Famblee Values spewed from Saint Ronnie and his slag wife.
Huey Lewis did a song for her anti drug campaign, too.
eyes2I decided to go for the drugs, not sex
/ end tangent. Is relevant because I think Propaganda is still coloring Doc's sterilization opinions today. The middle aged Docs grew up when I did. Same age range. They were exposed to the same Propaganda about Famblee Values and Bio Clocks. Goes for the UK and Ronnie's pal Iron Lady Thatcher too - they got the same shit at the same time.
Notice too - how the stubborn resistance to Propaganda has the Right now looking to OUTLAW birth control. Notice also the promotion of adoption (over abortion.) - We're sliding back into the 50s. How soon before "Homes for Unwed Mothers" start popping up again?
Jack Nicholson just popped into my head. Many, back in the day, who kept the kids - their parents raised them as "siblings" to the birth mother. Aileen Wuornos. I'm sure there are plenty more ~
Or the kids were given to another family member, a childless Aunt and Uncle, or maybe to a family friend. Thank Jah you weren't CF in those days either - because you might have had a child that you did not want - foisted upon you. You might've been coerced to take it in.
Not sure, but I think that was fairly common also.
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 30, 2015 |
Quote
paragon schnitzophonic
So, finances willing, I could be sterilized with no hesitation! I've already exhausted my deductible and most of my out-of-pocket maximum with a surgery earlier in the month, so it might be relatively inexpensive. So fingers crossed.
Good luck! Keep us posted. :beer
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 30, 2015 |
Though the thread has been hijacked over the teen puberty issue, I'd like to chime in about it too.
On some men's and conservative (i.e., right wing nutjob) sites, a toxic little meme has appeared often over the last several years that age of consent and statutory rape laws are "unfair" because girls were supposedly being routinely married at age 13–15 100–200 years ago. Every time I see this, I do my best to demolish it. The men posting this garbage seem to have fantasies of having been able to marry and bang a 14–year-old girl had they only lived in 1900 instead of 2015. In other words, these guys have secret pedo fantasies.
The puberty age was much higher in the mid–19th Century, when it was at an average age of about 16.5. That means some girls turning 17 still hadn't hit menarche (first period, onset of puberty) yet. The age has been on a decline since for reasons not fully understood, but all the factors mentioned here such as better food, hormone use in meats, etc., seem to play some role.
The debutante age was 18, not 14 or before. Novels of the 19th Century give 18 as being the magic age when an upper-class girl was first considered eligible to marry, hence debutante balls to meet potential suitors at that age.
Church and family Bible records from the 18th Century until the first part of the 20th Century do not back up any notion that girls were marrying at 14. Instead the age when both genders actually married was pretty steady at 18–24. US Census data from the late 19th Century confirm this as well. In some areas in the western and Deep Southern US, a few girls married earlier, but they were exceptions, not the rule. And as mentioned, mostly they were marrying someone close to their own age, not a man 20–40 years older.
These men also fail to account for legal marriage ages in English–speaking countries. In my state (eastern US), the legal age to marry when the age of majority was 21 was—get this—18 with parental consent, 21 without. After the age of majority became 18 around 1970, the law was changed to allow marriage at 16 with parental consent, 18 without. A judge could order an exception for pregnant minors, but this seems to have been rare. In many jurisdictions, then, marrying before 18 would have been illegal.
Two well known cases involving music stars in the mid–20th Century muddied the waters. Loretta Lynn long claimed that she married when she was 13, just before her 14th birthday, but recently revealed she was actually 15. Rockabilly artist Jerry Lee Lewis married his first wife when he was 14, but his third marriage was to his 13–year-old cousin. Contrary to what the men's rights advocates would claim about such marriages being "common" at one time, Lewis was hounded out of Britain during a concert tour in the late 1950s when the news of his marriage to an underage cousin hit the media there, and his career here tanked for years as well. That should show that marrying at 14 was uncommon and frowned upon.
These are the same facts I present to men's and conservative forums when that stupid meme pops up. Usually I include links to some of the data, but I think my fellow Bratfree members are smart enough to confirm my comments on their own.
On some men's and conservative (i.e., right wing nutjob) sites, a toxic little meme has appeared often over the last several years that age of consent and statutory rape laws are "unfair" because girls were supposedly being routinely married at age 13–15 100–200 years ago. Every time I see this, I do my best to demolish it. The men posting this garbage seem to have fantasies of having been able to marry and bang a 14–year-old girl had they only lived in 1900 instead of 2015. In other words, these guys have secret pedo fantasies.
The puberty age was much higher in the mid–19th Century, when it was at an average age of about 16.5. That means some girls turning 17 still hadn't hit menarche (first period, onset of puberty) yet. The age has been on a decline since for reasons not fully understood, but all the factors mentioned here such as better food, hormone use in meats, etc., seem to play some role.
The debutante age was 18, not 14 or before. Novels of the 19th Century give 18 as being the magic age when an upper-class girl was first considered eligible to marry, hence debutante balls to meet potential suitors at that age.
Church and family Bible records from the 18th Century until the first part of the 20th Century do not back up any notion that girls were marrying at 14. Instead the age when both genders actually married was pretty steady at 18–24. US Census data from the late 19th Century confirm this as well. In some areas in the western and Deep Southern US, a few girls married earlier, but they were exceptions, not the rule. And as mentioned, mostly they were marrying someone close to their own age, not a man 20–40 years older.
These men also fail to account for legal marriage ages in English–speaking countries. In my state (eastern US), the legal age to marry when the age of majority was 21 was—get this—18 with parental consent, 21 without. After the age of majority became 18 around 1970, the law was changed to allow marriage at 16 with parental consent, 18 without. A judge could order an exception for pregnant minors, but this seems to have been rare. In many jurisdictions, then, marrying before 18 would have been illegal.
Two well known cases involving music stars in the mid–20th Century muddied the waters. Loretta Lynn long claimed that she married when she was 13, just before her 14th birthday, but recently revealed she was actually 15. Rockabilly artist Jerry Lee Lewis married his first wife when he was 14, but his third marriage was to his 13–year-old cousin. Contrary to what the men's rights advocates would claim about such marriages being "common" at one time, Lewis was hounded out of Britain during a concert tour in the late 1950s when the news of his marriage to an underage cousin hit the media there, and his career here tanked for years as well. That should show that marrying at 14 was uncommon and frowned upon.
These are the same facts I present to men's and conservative forums when that stupid meme pops up. Usually I include links to some of the data, but I think my fellow Bratfree members are smart enough to confirm my comments on their own.
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Re: Excellent sterilisation rant in the Guardian January 30, 2015 |
Age IS the point Kman - that's why Doc's routinely deny sterilization. For women and men. And, even if you're older - if you *haven't had kids* - they will routinely deny you too.
Eg. a 27 year old might get denied. But a 27 year old with 5 kids might get the OK.
Age as well as parental status factor into the Doc's decisions.
Another angle to this all that just came to me - YOUNG girls who are severely retarded and are in nursing home care. They are routinely sterilized at the onset of puberty because it's not a question of if they'll be raped - it's a foregone conclusion. Which is horrifying ~
And also women, including young women, attempting to cross borders - I am thinking of Mexicans trying to get into the US - they often try to get some kind of BC before attempting this - because they probably will be raped. I would guess it's the same anywhere.
Now on your thoughts here -
Yes, this really creeps me out too! And - such thinking is more common than you think. Otherwise that "To Catch a Predator" show would've never existed.
The lust for "young girls" seems to be very common. "Barely Legal" porn is huge. Look at your local CL personal ads - I've seen 50, 60 year old men looking for 18 year olds. And you know they'd take even younger if they could get it / they only say 18 because that's the law.
This whole subject intrigues me from the Psychological aspect - I do wonder WHY? It isn't Pedophilia either - because that's a lust for pre pubescent children. Teen girls with boobs, hips, and periods are not children, they're teens, or young adults. Adolescents. Pedophiles want pre pubescent children and in fact are not attracted to those who have matured.
So then we have to wonder - WHY do grown men want a young girl / woman like this? And it can't be just looks because plenty of older women look just fine such as Demi Moore, Jennifer Anniston, etc.
So WHAT is it? They must want someone young because they think they are "trainable". Naive. And in fact I've seen this exactly stated - I will look at some of these Conservative sites too, mostly the political or news ones, but you will see men bring up these topics too. And they will often state that they 'want one' that 'can be trained'. VOMIT. In a sim vein they often talk about "over seas women" who "aren't corrupted by Western ideas". Some go farther to say that if you want one of those - you best *move to that country* - so the woman does not get 'infected with' Western Feminazism.
It's got to be Ageism. And fear. They can't keep up with a peer - they want a younger person that they imagine will be easier to control. I've seen the same thing in the Gay (male) community - the guy's who want "Twinks" - that's not all about 'young and good looking' - a good part of it is control. Most of what I know of this is from reading online and the older guys say the same - you want the Twink because he'll fall for your BS.
And the same ageism is reflected in the medical establishment's refusal to sterilize young people - it's the *same thing* - these men (Medicine is still mostly men) - think the same thing - that the young girl (or guy) doesn't know her own mind. (It is, from what I've seen, mostly directed at young women though.)
What it all boils down to is really ageism.
And those looking for the super young - yes, they are predators. They're weak minded people looking to control someone. And the more controllable the better. And as you can see, from what you say of these MRA types - there sure is a great lot of interest in very young women. And it isn't Pedophilia because the qualifier on that is - the young person must be a pre pubescent child. No, they just like 'em young and it can't be just for looks. IMO what these people are looking for is someone inexperienced and naive.
And on the flip side - Docs consider the younger people - inexperienced and naive.
It's ageism.
And how funny / ironic is it too - that these people think that young people are too young to say NO - but they are old enough to say YES.
How fucked up is THAT? You're too young to be sterilized, but you're old enough to fuck some old goat and have his babies.
eyes2
Eg. a 27 year old might get denied. But a 27 year old with 5 kids might get the OK.
Age as well as parental status factor into the Doc's decisions.
Another angle to this all that just came to me - YOUNG girls who are severely retarded and are in nursing home care. They are routinely sterilized at the onset of puberty because it's not a question of if they'll be raped - it's a foregone conclusion. Which is horrifying ~
And also women, including young women, attempting to cross borders - I am thinking of Mexicans trying to get into the US - they often try to get some kind of BC before attempting this - because they probably will be raped. I would guess it's the same anywhere.
Now on your thoughts here -
Quote
On some men's and conservative (i.e., right wing nutjob) sites, a toxic little meme has appeared often over the last several years that age of consent and statutory rape laws are "unfair" because girls were supposedly being routinely married at age 13–15 100–200 years ago. Every time I see this, I do my best to demolish it. The men posting this garbage seem to have fantasies of having been able to marry and bang a 14–year-old girl had they only lived in 1900 instead of 2015. In other words, these guys have secret pedo fantasies.
Yes, this really creeps me out too! And - such thinking is more common than you think. Otherwise that "To Catch a Predator" show would've never existed.
The lust for "young girls" seems to be very common. "Barely Legal" porn is huge. Look at your local CL personal ads - I've seen 50, 60 year old men looking for 18 year olds. And you know they'd take even younger if they could get it / they only say 18 because that's the law.
This whole subject intrigues me from the Psychological aspect - I do wonder WHY? It isn't Pedophilia either - because that's a lust for pre pubescent children. Teen girls with boobs, hips, and periods are not children, they're teens, or young adults. Adolescents. Pedophiles want pre pubescent children and in fact are not attracted to those who have matured.
So then we have to wonder - WHY do grown men want a young girl / woman like this? And it can't be just looks because plenty of older women look just fine such as Demi Moore, Jennifer Anniston, etc.
So WHAT is it? They must want someone young because they think they are "trainable". Naive. And in fact I've seen this exactly stated - I will look at some of these Conservative sites too, mostly the political or news ones, but you will see men bring up these topics too. And they will often state that they 'want one' that 'can be trained'. VOMIT. In a sim vein they often talk about "over seas women" who "aren't corrupted by Western ideas". Some go farther to say that if you want one of those - you best *move to that country* - so the woman does not get 'infected with' Western Feminazism.
It's got to be Ageism. And fear. They can't keep up with a peer - they want a younger person that they imagine will be easier to control. I've seen the same thing in the Gay (male) community - the guy's who want "Twinks" - that's not all about 'young and good looking' - a good part of it is control. Most of what I know of this is from reading online and the older guys say the same - you want the Twink because he'll fall for your BS.
And the same ageism is reflected in the medical establishment's refusal to sterilize young people - it's the *same thing* - these men (Medicine is still mostly men) - think the same thing - that the young girl (or guy) doesn't know her own mind. (It is, from what I've seen, mostly directed at young women though.)
What it all boils down to is really ageism.
And those looking for the super young - yes, they are predators. They're weak minded people looking to control someone. And the more controllable the better. And as you can see, from what you say of these MRA types - there sure is a great lot of interest in very young women. And it isn't Pedophilia because the qualifier on that is - the young person must be a pre pubescent child. No, they just like 'em young and it can't be just for looks. IMO what these people are looking for is someone inexperienced and naive.
And on the flip side - Docs consider the younger people - inexperienced and naive.
It's ageism.
And how funny / ironic is it too - that these people think that young people are too young to say NO - but they are old enough to say YES.
How fucked up is THAT? You're too young to be sterilized, but you're old enough to fuck some old goat and have his babies.
eyes2Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.