Entry: 2259 No sex

It's actually quite common for women to loose interest in sex after marriage. This has to do with the fact taht they have achieved thier goal of security. Ask some older people arround you and you will see this is frequently true. This is yet another reason that men should never agree to marry. There is nothing in it for us. Before asking her ask yourself, "why am I doing this?" and "what can I get in a marriage taht I can't from a girlfriend?" Women say they will never change and we want to believe it. When you ask around you will hear the same story over and over again. What's wrong with just having a girlfriend? They tend to try much harder when they know you can leave at any time. A secure women is a mans worst nightmare. Keeping them insecure will keep you happy. Which intern will most likely keep her happy and interested. Women will never admit this works but believe me it's true. Don't waste your life being married to someone who only wants the minimum amount of sex. If you feel you have to get married wait as long as you can and have as many relationships as you can. As with anything else in life with experience comes wisdom.

Maybe the reason women lose (that's LOSE, not "loose") interest in sex after marriage is that men become really boring and annoying after you marry them. If you're just dating someone and live in your own place, going on a date is something fun - a special event. You put on makeup, perfume and wear a cute hairstyle and something that flatters the waistline. Sleepovers are fun too, especially because afterwards the guy LEAVES and you get the place back to yourself again. He can go to his job, his responsibilities, the mundane details of his life (which you are not a part of) and come back when he has something interesting to say again.

Who wants some guy around all the time, using up the hot water and leaving towels all over the floor? Why take a relationship to the "next level" where you have to see his whiney, irritating side and learn all about his flaws? Sure he has them, but so what? Why have him around when he's being an ass? If you don't get stuck living with the guy or being married to him, it will matter a lot less. When you have terrific chemistry with someone and they light you up, keep it the way it is - something you look forward to. When you feel like you just can't get enough of someone, don't GET enough of them. Don't make it boring and commonplace.

Women don't lose interest in sex after marriage because they're a bunch of money-grubbing whores who don't feel like they have to put out once they sign on the dotted line. What is this, 1950? For chrissake. They lose interest in sex after marriage because that's what marriage does to people! When you have someone around all the time, leaving butt dents in your couch, then it becomes WORK to try and cling to that last shred of sexual attraction you once felt for them. Keep your own place and see the guy once or twice a week. It'll stay fun that way.

And P.S. - Guest, you think you're such a player but you just sound like a dick.

I never said "all" women are "money grubbing whores" but it has been my experience that a great many are. I have been in enough relationships and had enough marriage discussions to know there is nothing in it for me. Most of my unhappy or divorced friends would agree. I have heard them say thinkgs like "It's cheaper to keep her" and "divorce is so expensive because it's worth it". If you actually have the conversations women will say things about "love" and "commitment". Why does that mean I have to sign a legal document giving up half my stuff if it doesn't work out? Will I still get sex for all that money? I think not. I would feel more "love" and "commitment" from a girlfriend who could leave at any time but choses to stay. Personally I am about the farthest thing from a "player". I am terrified about getting "oopsed" by a woman. I have seen it happen to too many close friends. I hate kids and would go to great lenghts to avoid them. I got my operation many years ago, so it is unlikely that I could ever father a child. That won't stop a woman from putting my name on a birth certificate. I would be forced to legally prove I am not the father. The US has some crazy laws. I would take "solo sex" over sex with a woman I did not completely trust. It's just not worth the trouble.

Well I don't disagree with a single thing you've said about marriage, but your comments about "keeping women insecure" and "making them try harder" made you sound like someone who doesn't treat women all that great to begin with. I don't see marriage as being a wonderful deal for women that comes at the expense of men. A woman can lose half of her assets in a marriage just as easily as a man can. And women don't go into marriage thinking about how they can't wait to lose interest in sex. Most of the time they probably already feel love and commitment for the guy and don't realize how marriage will ruin it. The Advice Goddess always has something useful to say on the subject:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2005/12/holding_on_for.html

http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2006/09/groping_for_mor_1.html

Oh please...I am so tired of women claiming how men are such "dicks" when they are honest about these situations. I am female so it is not a case of another man automatically sticking up for another man!

Guest, you are NOT a "dick" even though some women do not like hearing what is often the truth! I often feel that having a girlfriend/boyfriend is better than making it "legal". A secure woman is often a man's worst nightmare. Once a woman has that wedding band and security, she often says how she can now get "fat". Yeah, I did indeed hear that one from many attractive women shortly after the wedding in the church. Many of the wives also feel that sex can be withheld once they get what they want: security via marriage.

I will be going through a divorce but my hit is only on the mental level as I have nothing material for my soon-to-be ex-husband to take from me. I was the earner as I stood up to the plate and worked the massive overtime when "he" got sick and before he got approved for disability. Then...he wanted to go to school and get his college degree after that while I was still in this fog over taking on what felt the entire world on my shoulders. I was taken for granted in so many ways and got so little in return. I will not rehash it all as I am often tired of talking about it like one feels with a car accident.

However, I will say I am glad I have nothing this man can take half from me...or all of it. As Guest states, signing the legal document of marriage basically screws up most men's lives even though I, as a female, got a raw deal. Many men stay married regardless of lack of sex or even affection because they know how "freedom" will actually cost them more and keep them enslaved to a woman via child support or cunt support aka spousal support/alimony. As a female, I also do not see the point of getting married again. Living together makes far more sense.

I do hate to say it but a girlfriend is often MUCH nicer to a fellow than a wife. A woman will work harder to keep the relationship going well because she knows the man can just...leave. Yes, women can lose her assets in the marriage as Pirate Jo states which, again, makes me glad I did not have any holdings in both names. However, it is usually the male who comes out of divorce court screwed as judges, lawyers, AND women believe that a woman is to be paid like a whore for her time as a man's wife.

now imagine it if it was the other way round,

**Maybe the reason men lose (that's LOSE, not "loose") interest in sex after marriage is that women become really boring and annoying after you marry them. If you're just dating someone and live in your own place, going on a date is something fun - a special event. Sleepovers are fun too, especially because afterwards the woman LEAVES and you get the place back to yourself again. She can go to his job, her responsibilities, the mundane details of her life (which you are not a part of) and come back when she has something interesting to say again. **

is that sexist, yes or no.

for a lot of "modern" women use the idea that they get everything, as the only reason to marry and have children.

and pirate jo, when has a woman ever lost half her assets, i know of men earning afair bit of money, they get divorced and then man has to work 2 or 3 jobs to pay the money the courts say the woman needs. and this is FAR more if there is achild involved.

a true relationship is about equal shares, male and female, i know a few women who just want to catch that rich man, just to get hold of his money. i can give you the names and addresses of 3 of these women.

and your saying that women dont play games with men, rubbish, so what if a man is using generally whats known as womens tricks to be treated the same.

dont men deserve equal treatment, if a woman bullies and insults a man by calling him a dick, why cant a man call a woman a user, another term for these almighty women are prostitutes, they sell their ovaries and wombs to get what they want, which is financial stability. is it any wonder when you hear of women oopsing men, women using turkey basters, that men have decided in general women arent worth it.

since you brought up the advice goddess site, where is the advice god.

its the attitude of modern women and modern mothers, that men are considered worthless.

no fault divorces, benefit women, more so if there is a child involved. You may lose (note spelling) your sex drive, but thats no reason to punish someone else for it. from what i remember a relationship contains 2 people, not just one, TWO, now if any man or woman, denies the other PARTNER, human contact, human touch, then that will lead to straying, by either party. but since the world is now so focused on the legal side of womens rights in regards to divorces, do you really blame men for stacking the deck in their favour, because they know they will get screwed.

i have seen men kill themselves due to the unfair pressures put upon them by the courts, i have seen these men get blamed for abusing their children, no wonder men are more and more saying sod this to women, to all women, childfree and non. its not worth the time and effort anymore, if we always lose, and when people lose all the time, then they cease to play the game.

dont just blame men about how they feel about modern women, blame the women as well

(now i will get flamed for this, i have not insulted people specifically, but there are parallels with breeders and the "modern" women, there are always exceptions, to everything.)

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

This happens the other way around, too - there are plenty of women married to men who won't have sex with them and either the woman has an affair or leaves.

Being a married woman ain't all roses, folks.

Believe it or not, some women actually work! Full- time, even! Then we get to come home and do all of the housework, cooking, laundry, bill paying, and what does the "wonderful" man do? Lies around in his underpants, watching TV, whining about how he's due some affection. Well, let me go on the record and say that he didn't earn any affection. Most married men can't even rinse off a plate, and put it in the dishwasher. That's "wimmin's work."

Maybe if a lot of men realized that their shit does indeed, stink, they'd get more lovin'. Maybe if more men thought with their heads, instead of their dicks, then their wives would be a lot more responsive. Perhaps if more men did their share of the work, then they wouldn't have to beg for it. It goes both ways, people. Just because a man likes to fuck, doesn't give him any right to make demands, when he has no energy for anything else. It's give and take, not gimme gimme gimme, as so many husbands seem to believe.

Also, I despise those "money grubbing whores" as much as anyone else. But it isn't always the woman who thinks they're entitled to everything. Plenty of men are as bad, or worse.

Why do you allow such behavior sprogless? Was your husband always like this? Why do you do all the work? You can always just stop doing anything or leave. You always have a choice. You always need to look long and hard at yourself and say "How did I get into this situation?"

Personally I believe any time sex is used as a bargaining tool the relationship is doomed. Why would anyone stay with someone who used sex as currency? He might might be hapier getting a maid and a whore. You might be better off alone or with someone else if he is just a burden.

I don't mean to pick on you sprogelss but I have many friends in the same position as you and I feel strongly about it. I have seen first hand the pain that situations like yours cause both parties. People are not dogs. Sex should not be a treat given as a reward for doing tricks.

In the end you can only be treated how you allow yourself to be treated. If I had a girlfriend who (even in jest) said "I'll do (insert sexual favor) if you do (non sexual favor)" I would say "how about you leave now." Trading purely sexual favors can be a lot of harmless fun though. On the other hand if I wasn't being equal in all aspects of the relationship I would not blame her for leaving.

yes vlm and sprogless, it does happen the other way around, but the men see it predominantly one way, and women see the other side, we arent wrong, but there has to be proportion, if men do it, women do it, to just say one side only cheats on the opposite partner, that is wrong.

i say will say again, is it any better if a woman does or doesnt do it,

**"Maybe if a lot of WOmen realized that their shit does indeed, stink, they'd get more lovin'. Maybe if more WOmen thought with their heads, instead of their dpussies, then their husbands would be a lot more responsive. Perhaps if more women did their share of the work, then they wouldn't have to beg for it. It goes both ways, people. Just because a WOman likes to fuck, doesn't give her any right to make demands, when she has no energy for anything else. It's give and take, not gimme gimme gimme, as so many wives seem to believe. "

the trick is to reverse your thinking for a bit, and see if you think if a woman did it, or it would be better/worse than if a man did it.

there are bad people of both sexes, we agree to that, but we only see it when it happens to the opposite sex of who we are.

is it better for a woman to sit at home and do nothing, and the man go out and work, and then is expected to clean up and cook for her. or if the man sits home and does nothing, and expects her to cook and clean. or is it unfair to both sexes. we are not saying that a man is automatically innocent of bad behaviour, and the reverse is true, not all women are innocent of bad behaviour.

but there is a minority of men and women, who say poor poor me, my partner doesnt understand me, when they really are to blame. its the same mentality that breeders have, what can i get out of it, whether its financial security, the lack of human contact between partners after you have got what you wanted, lack of realising a relationship is a partnership (equal but each bringing different strengths and weaknesses, which usually cancels out), any one male or female who take for granted the other partner, has only themselves to blame, if these people stray, and cheat, and maybe catch a std. (even with using a condom you can catch some std's).

the guest can see the male view, as can i, as we are male, women can see the female view, does that mean one is better than the other, NO, just different. and thats the whole point, when one group says well men are always to blame, thats equally as sexist as when onw group says women are always to blame.

guest has put his views, i have put mine, to balance the anti male feelings on this world of today, its all about BALANCE, know that men are not women, and women are not men, but realise there are other views possible.

to just see one view, and beleiving that completely, without seeing a possible opposite view, leads to people with ideas that all men are just defective women, or that all women should be bare foot and pregnant.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

as an addendum, yes this is a article about children, but, it has the same sort of idea that guest and myself have been stating. a true relationship is once again a partnership, and as soon as any one partner takes advantage of the other, whether they are male or female. that is a bad marriage,


http://thebritgirl.com/2007/04/05/men-want-more-family-time-but-will-they-get-it/

this links to a Article in the guardian here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0,,2048647,00.html

Men are increasingly yearning for a better work-life balance and want their partners to share the role of breadwinner so they can spend more time with their children, according to a survey published today.

A study commissioned by FHM magazine found seven out of 10 men say they reject the gender roles of their fathers' generation in favour of a 50/50 partnership, in which both they and their partner would go out to work, sharing childcare and housework.

However, while indicating that men believe they have made a dramatic shift in roles in the last 30 years - at the behest of women - the survey also suggests that men feel women have now changed their minds and want to go back to old roles.

Half of men with a baby or young children say their partner "now wants him to earn enough so she can be a full-time mother", while 38% say their partner wants them to earn enough to allow her to work part-time.

The magazine's male lifestyle survey 2007, which questioned 2,000 men around the UK with an average age of 30, offers fresh evidence of the turmoil taking place in many homes as couples attempt to grapple with changing gender roles and pressure to achieve both career fulfilment and a happy family life.

Another study, published yesterday by the government's digital information and advice service Directgov, found that almost a third of UK parents feel their greatest stress is not spending enough time with their children.

For those with children aged seven to nine, the proportion concerned that they cannot reconcile Britain's long hours working culture with family responsibilities rises to 40%, affecting both fathers and mothers equally

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> no fault divorces, benefit women, more so if there
> is a child involved. You may lose (note spelling)
> your sex drive, but thats no reason to punish
> someone else for it. from what i remember a
> relationship contains 2 people, not just one,
> TWO, now if any man or woman, denies the other
> PARTNER, human contact, human touch, then that
> will lead to straying, by either party. but since
> the world is now so focused on the legal side of
> womens rights in regards to divorces, do you
> really blame men for stacking the deck in their
> favour, because they know they will get screwed.
>
> i have seen men kill themselves due to the unfair
> pressures put upon them by the courts, i have
> seen these men get blamed for abusing their
> children, no wonder men are more and more saying
> sod this to women, to all women, childfree and
> non. its not worth the time and effort anymore,
> if we always lose, and when people lose all the
> time, then they cease to play the game.
>
> dont just blame men about how they feel about
> modern women, blame the women as well
>
> (now i will get flamed for this, i have not
> insulted people specifically, but there are
> parallels with breeders and the "modern" women,
> there are always exceptions, to everything.)

I have also known men who lost almost everything to "no-fault" divorce even when if they were childfree/childless. The courts almost always side with the women even if the wife is the one who just walked off...and with another guy. Mercurior, it is very common for a man to try to take his own life in these situations or snap by going after the ex-wife. I have no pity for the women who end up dead or injured after trying to financially rape a former spouse. Where I grew up, there is no pity for blackmailers or extortionists who get their "due". That is the cost of doing "business".

I do believe a man should take care of his children but the child support should be fair. $1600 a month for two kids cannot be justified. So what if the man makes a ton of money. The wife does not have the right to be supported in the fashion she was used to...and neither are the children. Basic needs are all that need to be covered. Women often use their own emotional shit to get more support out of the fathers. I worked with one bitch who took her ex back to court for more child support because he did not come to see the daughter as much as the woman wanted. The guy had to work for God's sake! Then, this cunt played so many games by having her young daughter call her boyfriend, "Dad", just to get back at the former husband. No wonder he did not come around...

I do believe we should go back to the older laws of where fault had to be found before any settlements are awarded. If a woman wants to file "no fault", she should not be awarded monetary gains. The person who leaves should get nothing. Most statistics show that it is women who file the most for divorce. A woman should not be paid for her time of being a man's wife. That is akin to prostitution. At least, streetwalkers are more honest about their intentions even though the "good women" love to label them as "bad" for selling sex when the same dames sell their pussies for that wedding band.

I do agree 100% with Guest who talks of how women use sex as a "treat" for husbands who do what they want and withhold intimacy as punishment. Yet, the same women wonder why their men will look elsewhere for sex with a woman who actually enjoys it and will not make the guy jump through impossible hoops for a little enjoyment. The others also mentioned how there are husbands who also withhold sex. I mentioned that as well. For a married person to resort to an affair, the duplicity is not easy due to the planning and making certain time habits are mostly kept to not get caught. A lot of guys would rather keep it at home.

Women learn so many manipulations about sexuality from those insipid books like "The Rules" and other books on how to get that man to the altar. The authors almost always say to play games when it comes to sex, meaning do not have sex too soon lest the man lose interest. If anyone loses interest in a person because s/he thinks less of someone who "does it" too soon is not worth the hassle. I am not into game playing. What is more galling about those books I have actually read when working an overnight job where NOTHING happened (found them in the breakroom) is how the female authors then offer advice for a woman who actually LIKES sex. Those women are told to work hard to withhold their passions so that man chases them more. Gag me! These damned things did keep me from falling asleep at my desk because I was so ticked off at such stupidity...

Those books are stupid, amethusos*. I have always hated games, too. So many females I've known over the years play such games. My mother used to tell me to play some of that manipulative crap. Ugh!!! Why bother playing stupid games? Just be who you are, and be the best person you can be for your spouse. Mercurior is right, a marriage is a partnership. When you truly love someone, selfishness, and manipulation do not even enter your mind.

It has been a couple of days since I checked the site, but I am enjoying all the comments posted here. Guest and mercurior point out ways in which women can be giant pains in the ass to be married to. The experiences of amethusos and sprogless (as well as my furious tirade on the subject) indicate men can be just as bad, and marriage isn't necessarily a picnic for women, either.

But I would like to get away from this men vs. women debate. A jerk is a jerk is a jerk, whether that jerk is male or female. What I'd really like to hear everyone's opinion on, is whether the institution of marriage itself is the problem.

Maybe a smart person would figure out the same things about marriage that we have already figured out about children. That just because it's common and expected, and people think they are failures if they don't do it, that maybe marriage just isn't that good for people.

Personal disclosure: I have always been childfree - I was one of those "early articulators." I have been dead-set against having children ever since I was a wee sprog myself. Without any rush to make use of my eggs before their "best if used by" date, there wasn't much of a rush to get married, either, although I figured it was probably something I'd wind up doing someday. Now I'm not so sure. I think that even a good relationship starts to become "work" when it is forced to endure the tests of marriage, so I wonder why anyone would want to do that to a good relationship in the first place. Of course not all relationships are good - or at least they don't always stay that way - so wouldn't it be better if the not-good ones were easy to get out of? Do you really want to be someone who stays together "for the sake of the marriage?" Shouldn't marriage exist for the benefit of the two people in it? And what IS the benefit?

Guest makes a good point as well, although I thought it sounded a bit sexist. He talked about women (and I would say men as well) being a bit too "secure" in the relationship. I don't know if he is talking about financial security or not - I think everyone should have his or her own money, regardless of gender. He might be referring to the tendency of people to take their partners for granted once they are locked into a legal agreement. Again, I think marriage is an equal-opportunity distributor of suffering, and it's not just women who start doing that.

But I don't want to get into the "who's worse - men or women" argument, because no one really knows, and anything posted on the subject will be purely anecdotal and probably reeking of stereotypes as well. I just think the original question underlines a more important issue that goes way beyond sex - it's whether marriage itself is really a useful institution anymore.

Those two articles from Amy Alkon that I linked reveal a lot of insights that I just can't ignore.

ok, i have always thought that too much pressure is put on marriage as a solution, luckily that pressure is fading, for good or for bad. people living together for example.

however the ideal idea of marriage isnt paperwork, it isnt legal rights, marriage is between 2 or more people, who want to be with each other. the fault lies in the legal necessities of marriage, you need to be married to make health decisions about your partner, you get tax breaks etc.. etc..

i am engaged, i am getting married hopefully by september, but in my heart and hers we are married already, we know each other, and understand the freedoms we both need, whether its an hour apart, or a day apart.

there is an idea that all married people should be together 100% of the time, when they are not at work. unfortunatly this breeds contempt, little tiny problems get exaggerated into major arguments.

marriage for love, and marriage for legal reasons are 2 completely different types of marriage.

a lot of lawyers love the idea of marriage break ups, a lot of organisations push for singledom. as they have a vested interest in it.

i have always thought that marriage should be a renewable licence, for 1, 2, 5, 10 , 15, 20 or forever, with written in instructions if there are children, or pets, or earnings.

but marriage is a good thing, but only if you realise, you are seperate people, and need time apart

me and rowan love each other totally, but because of legal reasons we have to get married, (she wants to be a british citizen) so we have to get all the paperwork sorted to get her here. people ask about marriage in regards to gays, i am all for them to be married, not a civil partnership a true marriage, marriage should be about love, and so what if they share the same sex, is their love any less valid as yours.. the problem is a lot of people, and organisations, put pressure on marriage, marriage is only valid for breeding purposes, thats the wrong sort of marriage, that kind is what can i get out of it, this idea of how can i benefit from it, is very common in a lot of marriages of today, no fault divorces, alimony, child support, they profit from the marriage, and they also profit if it fails.

no wonder there are more and more divorces today, than 20 years ago. the growth of the self centred people, can be linked to certain pro family(read pro single mother) organisations. yes the 80s was very consumerism based, but that was an easy decade, compared to the I want, the I need generation of today.

marriage should be about love, mutual respect, not what can i get out of it, i agree some men are jerks, and i in my experience as a man, have noticed there are far more female jerks out there, as they have fallen for the idea that they can have it all, which is exactly the same as the i need i want generation as we see today.

they are self absorbed, not really caring about others, only what they can get. this is the problem, men have less chance/opportunity to have this because as has been said the deck is stacked against them. so when men are saying sod this, i am going to be selfish, they get raked over the coals, when the opposite is frequently applauded, by press, by governments, by organisations.

marriage as an institution isnt bad, it isnt wrong, its the things you bring to that marriage can be the problem. and frequently is the problem.


(part of the problem of articles is they can be biased towards certain activities, you cannot know what its like to be a man, unless you speak to a man, just like you cannt know what its like to be a woman unless you speak to one, unfortunatly some articles are so one sided as to make the otherside seem to be money grubbing whores, or selfish pigs. dont just rely on one message, read from both sides. as men we can only say what we see as the problem, and as women you can only say what you see is the problem. luckily i am open minded enough to realise that not all women are like that, just like you should realise not all men are like that either.)

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Elizabeth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those books are stupid, amethusos*. I have always
> hated games, too. So many females I've known over
> the years play such games. My mother used to tell
> me to play some of that manipulative crap. Ugh!!!
> Why bother playing stupid games? Just be who you
> are, and be the best person you can be for your
> spouse. Mercurior is right, a marriage is a
> partnership. When you truly love someone,
> selfishness, and manipulation do not even enter
> your mind.

My mom is a very progressive and liberal person...but she also told me to "play hard to get" which I always thought was reprehensible. I know my mother loves me and just did not want me to get hurt emotionally by any man who used my feelings and kindness for his own selfish gains only to drop me when his interest waned. I preferred to take the risk rather than play those games. However, I learned to not to immediatelty wear my emotions on my sleeve as I got older. I did not play those "hard to get" games but was more prudent when it came to declaring any feelings beyond general "like" before knowing if the fellow was sincere. That is different than "The Rules" type games because withholding sex was not a part of it as I can separate sex from "love".

I wasn't talking about my own marriage. I was talking about the inequalities that I've seen in many relationships and marriages.

Guest, since you were so kind to tell me how you see things, I'll return the favor. No decent woman would want anything to do with you, which is probably why you believe what you do. It's pathetically apparent that you are one of those men that think you are entitled to "favors" that you wouldn't return. Equality? I'm believing that you don't know the meaning of the word. Men aren't entitled to sex anymore than women are entitled to spend all of a man's money. As I said the first time around, it's give and take. And, no, I don't think you're picking on me. You simply made an incorrect assumption. What a surprise...

amethusos* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
However, I learned to not to immediatelty
> wear my emotions on my sleeve as I got older. I
> did not play those "hard to get" games but was
> more prudent when it came to declaring any
> feelings beyond general "like" before knowing if
> the fellow was sincere.

That is so wise and true. I know this from experience too. If you declare your feelings too early, they take that as permission to walk all over you.

amethusos* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh please...I am so tired of women claiming how
> men are such "dicks" when they are honest about
> these situations.

Amen. Also a marriage should be 50/50. not 20/50. (or the like)
Having a husband(or in the man's case, a wife) they love and affection should be 100%. (Inlucing sex.)

This reminds me of the video game "Sim's." Where if your sim gets married, they have a relationship bar that shows how good a friend or lover they are. If they don't give their lover enough affection, the bar takes a nosedive. That is so true in real life. Even cuddling or giving a hug and kiss before heading off to work is sure to do wonders for a relationship. It's not hard. Who would want to be in a marriage and feel like they ar being neglected? This goes for both male and female. Marriage takes work, a regular non-married" fling doesn't. Because a fling doesn't take commitment, but a marriage does. I don't see anything "wrong" with being married, because I love it and NOT just because of a stupid thing called security. I'm a strong, independent person. I think of my husband as a good friend to whom I have sexual relations with and am VERY close with.

---

lab mom

Elizabeth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those books are stupid, amethusos*. I have always
> hated games, too. So many females I've known over
> the years play such games. My mother used to tell
> me to play some of that manipulative crap. Ugh!!!
> Why bother playing stupid games? Just be who you
> are, and be the best person you can be for your
> spouse. Mercurior is right, a marriage is a
> partnership. When you truly love someone,
> selfishness, and manipulation do not even enter
> your mind.


Amen. The playing games crap. I see SO many women do this! (I'm sure a small amount of men do it, too) I sure as hell don't. Why make yourself look like a bitch??? Honesty is key to a good marriage.

---

lab mom

I have to agree with Pirate Jo here, going round and round about "Who's worse, men or women?" is fruitless and (imho) stupid. We all have stories of assholes of both genders, so can't we just agree that assholes populate both genders in about the same proportions and discuss some other aspect of this, like the pros and cons of marriage?

Personally, if two people honestly love AND respect each other and want to combine their lives in a ceremony and with the related paperwork, I see no problems with it. Maybe I'm biased, because I'm about to get married, but I really don't see it as doing much to improve or ruin our relationship. We are eachother's best friends, who also persue interests (and sometimes vacations) on our own. We work hard to have equality in all work and monitary pursuits, but understand that we are two different people who make different salaries, and have different ideas of what needs to be done. We understand that talking is better than yelling, and that honesty is the best policy (which includes being able to say "I don't want to talk about this").

Maybe what really makes it work is that we both really enjoy lazing on the couch in our underware, and will do most anything to allow ourselves that delicous slack.

There is a special place in hell reserved for that cunt who wrote "The Rules". That stupid twat pulled so much of that shit out of her ass and too many gullible women bought her drivel as gospel. Combined with her smug attitude, I hope karma gives her one big steel-jawed bite on the ass.

CFBitchfromLA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a special place in hell reserved for that
> cunt who wrote "The Rules". That stupid twat
> pulled so much of that shit out of her ass and too
> many gullible women bought her drivel as gospel.
> Combined with her smug attitude, I hope karma
> gives her one big steel-jawed bite on the ass.

CFBfromLA, Karma did get one of the bitchy authors of "The Rules"!!! Her marriage ended in divorce! A woman cannot play games while dating to get commitment, an engagement ring, a wedding, and then expect she can suddenly "be herself". If a woman feels she must resort to playing such childish games in the beginning to keep someone's interest, it has to continue in marriage because to let our her True Self will cause the relationship to implode. What a person gives is what s/he gets!

The thing that killed me when I read the book out of sheer boredom at work was the advice to the "woman who actually likes sex" when the author wrote of how long to prolong the first sexual encounter to keep the man wondering and coming back! I have been accused of being "too fast" but I would rather be seen as "easy" and a man to show himself for being a sexist jerk rather than to play the "keep those legs shut/hard to get". I would rather live honestly than to be called "the good girl", which is such a fucking farce!

Hey all,

I realize that this thread is old.. but i have to say .. this idiot sounds much like the "great brain" behind "americanwomensuck.com" ... i.e. he hates western women and plans (???) to marry a mail-order-bride from Russian, Eastern Europe or Vietnam/China.

Pathetic.