Take a look at this...

http://antimisandry.com/exponential_population_decline_modern_nations_cultural_trends_must_modified-t3407.html?s=e42c6dbf4bdd6fb2bd9890cb87d2fbf8&

Seems like they think everything is coming to a end.

Population decline would be a BEAUTIFUL thing!

I have to say, I browsed that site, and sadly it is the mirror image of radical feminism...and they obviously don't see the decline in female fertility as being a "good thing".

Most humans don't see population decline as a good thing, because they are humans and feel they are the most important beings on earth. Of course. Barring any (un)foreseen circumstances, simple population decline due to low birth rates won't result in the extinction of the human race, but a better quality of life for the remaining humans. However, from how I read it, it just seems they're worried about the decline in the WHITE population, as usual.

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most humans don't see population decline as a
> good thing, because they are humans and feel they
> are the most important beings on earth. Of
> course. Barring any (un)foreseen circumstances,
> simple population decline due to low birth rates
> won't result in the extinction of the human race,
> but a better quality of life for the remaining
> humans. However, from how I read it, it just
> seems they're worried about the decline in the
> WHITE population, as usual.


I realize most humans don't see population decline as a I good thing, and I myself am inclined to feel a bit...uneasy...about the prospect of a significantly lower or perhaps nonexistent human population. However, I realize that feeling isn't necessarily a rational one. And, as you pointed out, quality is much more important than quantity.

Instead of becoming hysterical over the prospect of a smaller population ("There won't be anyone to care for the elderly!" "The economy is going to collapse!"), we should be using our human ingenuity to figure out ways to tweak our social support systems so that they can run smoothly and efficiently (or at least as efficiently as they run currently!) with a smaller population. But hey, why go through all that trouble? It's so much easier to pressure/guilt/bribe people in to breeding!

Thanks for pointing out the racist undertones, I was so blown away by the sexism that I didn't event notice the racism!

Human population decline? Good, for the sake of the other species that inhabit the earth, bring it on! Ok, I don't want us to become extinct but a bloody good 75% passive reduction will do a lot of good.

As for that forum, God, it's sexist.

As for this: "Depopulation. The same event that befell Sparta. It seems that wherever women neglect their duties to hearth and home, disaster soon follows. And when disaster strikes, women's rights are soon lost in the confusion." - oh fuck off and kiss my liberated childfree ass!

Really? They used Sparta as an example? I'm sorry, but wasn't the main focus of Spartan society the creation of more warriors? Maybe the problem with Sparta was that they were unable or unwilling to diversify their societal focus. Maybe what we need to learn from Sparta is that we need to teach ALL people in the society that they have value, as opposed to teaching people the only valuable ones are breeders and their children.

Part of a society's concerns should be for the future, but there won't be a future for society if it doesn't organize itself in a way that has meaning in the present. It's just another thing that pisses me off about breeders, sure children are the future, but what about creating a decent present to build off of? You can't build anything lasting on an unstable and weak base.

Oh and by the way, Sparta may be gone, but there's still assloads of people wandering around...again, they just worry about the survival of Gawd's Chrystian White Amurika.

Allow me to play devil's advocate in response to the earlier comment "it just seems they're worried about the decline in the WHITE population, as usual". See, here's the thing: Europe and America, and to a lesser extent Australia, are going to be facing some major demographic changes over the next few decades. The "native" white population* has achieved its lowest birth rate ever, and at the same time has thrown open the immigration floodgates to mostly third-worlders whose birth rates are many times higher. With this high birth rate there are also the aspects of their culture that are incompatible with that of the host country, also given the fact that the false doctrine of multiculturalism almost discourages newcomers from assimilating. What we'll be seeing in those areas is the "minority races" possibly becoming the majority. This doesn't bode well for anyone involved.

With the exception of a handful of east Asian countries (most notably Japan and Singapore), the only countries in the world that have their shit together are the "white" countries. Fine, call me a racist or supremecist or whatever. I don't think its about race, I think its more about culture.

Look at all the countries around the world - the entire African continent is a disaster zone. The colonial powers did some nasty things when they were there, I'll admit that, but they also set up governments and some semblance of an infrastructure necessary to run a country. But when these countries gained independance, they just reverted back to their tribalistic bullshit but still somehow manage to blame "the legacy of white rule" on the current situation (eg, Zimbabwe). The blacks have far more to worry about what other blacks will do to them than what the white man did.

If it wasn't for energy reserves, NO majority muslim country would have anything going for it. Even then, the islamic superiority complex (to cut it short: muslims are perfect people, everyone else will go to hell) instilled into every muslim by the Qur'an, leaves them with a corrupt and lazy attitude. The Arabs, blessed with massive oil reserves, still rely mostly on foreign labour to build the country and actually make it happen. I read somewhere that in Bahrain or one of the smaller Gulf states, 60% of the population was foreign workers (who are generally treated like shit, including fellow muslims from Bangladesh and Pakistan, etc). Other muslim nations such as Malaysia and Indonesia rely mostly on the economic productivity of the non-muslim population (mostly Chinese).

Southern Asian countries like Pakistan and India are basically just over populated shit holes. Effects of overpopulation on the environment and quality of life don't need any further elaboration on this forum.

And yeah, I have travelled to a lot of these places and seen all this for myself. I have visited friends who live there (or used to) and have heard their take on things.

So, basically, in my opinion, we have a lot of cultures that are conducive to producing what I bluntly call "shit hole countries". Once you start importing such cultures (by way of unchecked immigration) especially when the groups supporting those cultures have irresponsible birth rates (made all the easier by the western governments subsidising all sorts of baby and family related bullshit that wasn't available in their own countries), we have a recipe for disaster. Just remember - these people left their home countries because the culture there produced an less-desirable environment than what they could find in the west. Do they really think things wouldn't be different if their cultural group became the majority in their new country?

The problem can't be solved by "more white people having babies" - that's just stupid breeder logic. The only way the problem can be solved is for EVERYONE to have restrictions placed on them, and for governments to stop giving out incentives to have more children to "combat the ageing population". Ageing bullshit. Yeah, the Boomer demographic is over represented, but it won't last forever. Eventually they will die out and things will balance out (or will they, depends how many 3rd worlders we let in and how many of those families popped out five or more kids, all courtsey of our tax payers).

(* yes, in the case of Australia and America I am aware of the irony of referring to the "native whites" as the ones being invaded. Europe, however, has no excuse for what they have allowed their leaders to do to their countries, especially France, Britain and Holland - all in the name of multiculturalism and alleviating some "white guilt").

There is very serious concern in some quarters about the growing Muslim population in Europe because of the huge difference in cultures and what it would mean for freedoms if Muslims became politically more powerful—let alone the majority of the population. Just look at the prior history of Muslim invasions of Europe in the Dark and Middle Ages to get an idea of what a takeover of Europe would entail. It's not just a case of "whites" not wanting darker-skinned people to immigrate; there's more to the whole issue. A large change in society, from allowing fecund groups who don't respect liberty and traditions to enter, would imperil every citizen regardless of color.

I agree with everything Non-PoliticallyCorrect says, including his solution, which boils down to limiting immigration. That's something every country in Europe and North America needs to do for its own security anyway. And as NPC says, breeding is not a solution. In fact, as the Middle East starts to have oil supply problems, having more children in countries dependent on imported oil will become part of the problem. A decision in Europe or the US to have children is a decision to inflict damage on national security by increasing consumption of imported resources, including oil. But I preach to the choir here.

Its muslims more than anyone else who are changing the future political and demographic landscape (for the worse) in the west, and it isn't due to any technological or ideological innovations, but just the fact that they are outbreeding everyone else by a huge margin.

More than any other migrant group, muslims make the most noise and the most demands and the most complaints when things don't go their way. They make the least effort in fitting in with the "infidel culture" of their new country. Why move then? (Oh, thats right, your home country is a shit hole because of the culture you refuse to give up... too bad YOU can't see the link!)

Instead of trying to fit in and assimilate and embrace the culture of their new homes, they bring over the religious and cultural bullshit and scream 'racism' the first instance someone suggests they try to fit in.

There is tension (and sometimes war) with pretty much every other religion that has to share a country with muslims (some notable examples: Sudan, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia, India, Britain... need I go on?)

Check out these sites for more info:
http://www.jihadwatch.com
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

I've got nothing to do with these sites, but I make them part of my daily news reading. The mainstream media is just too chicken shit to call it like it is, lest they get sued by CAIR or some other muslim interest group because their reporting the truth puts islam/muslims in a bad light and is thus racist or "islamophobic".

I know my postings aren't strictly related to childfree topics, but it is something I feely very strongly about as it is an issue that that affects us all.

Non-PoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its muslims more than anyone else who are changing
> the future political and demographic landscape
> (for the worse) in the west, and it isn't due to
> any technological or ideological innovations, but
> just the fact that they are outbreeding everyone
> else by a huge margin.
>
> More than any other migrant group, muslims make
> the most noise and the most demands and the most
> complaints when things don't go their way. They
> make the least effort in fitting in with the
> "infidel culture" of their new country. Why move
> then? (Oh, thats right, your home country is a
> shit hole because of the culture you refuse to
> give up... too bad YOU can't see the link!)
>
> Instead of trying to fit in and assimilate and
> embrace the culture of their new homes, they bring
> over the religious and cultural bullshit and
> scream 'racism' the first instance someone
> suggests they try to fit in.

You can change "Muslims" to "Latin Americans" and get another true statement.

The Latino/Hispanic birthrate is much higher than average. In California (and other places), the majority of births are anchor babies to illegal Maria Mamacitas.

Recently, there was a Presidential debate en espanol. There's no need to assimilate when politicians and so many others pander to you.

There are countless advocacy non-profit organizations for both groups.

catmeow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Non-PoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Its muslims more than anyone else who are
> changing
> > the future political and demographic landscape
> > (for the worse) in the west, and it isn't due
> to
> > any technological or ideological innovations,
> but
> > just the fact that they are outbreeding
> everyone
> > else by a huge margin.
> >
> > More than any other migrant group, muslims make
> > the most noise and the most demands and the
> most
> > complaints when things don't go their way. They
> > make the least effort in fitting in with the
> > "infidel culture" of their new country. Why
> move
> > then? (Oh, thats right, your home country is a
> > shit hole because of the culture you refuse to
> > give up... too bad YOU can't see the link!)
> >
> > Instead of trying to fit in and assimilate and
> > embrace the culture of their new homes, they
> bring
> > over the religious and cultural bullshit and
> > scream 'racism' the first instance someone
> > suggests they try to fit in.
>
> You can change "Muslims" to "Latin Americans" and
> get another true statement.
>
> The Latino/Hispanic birthrate is much higher than
> average. In California (and other places), the
> majority of births are anchor babies to illegal
> Maria Mamacitas.
>
> Recently, there was a Presidential debate en
> espanol. There's no need to assimilate when
> politicians and so many others pander to you.
>
> There are countless advocacy non-profit
> organizations for both groups.

Exactly!!!! I do worry more about Muslim influence and terrorism but the Mexicans are doing their own brand with their own nasty government actually teaching their filthy people how to sneak into the US. Mexico never got over losing the war and feel that most of the States should go back to Mexican control. So...they want to come over here and turn our nation into a fucking banana republic third world country. Hispanics are a dumb fucking breed. They drop out of school at a higher rate than Blacks...and do nothing but breed. Read more about La Raza if you think I am being bitchier than usual -- http://www.nclr.org/

If we're dumb enough to have our only solutions be, "bomb them back to the stone age" and "have more white babies", we deserve what we get. Taking over a state and simply leaving the union seems like a better and better option.

You are so right, Feh. This discussion reminds me of Kipling's poem, "The White Man's Burden," written around the turn of the 20th century. He was a big believer in Anglo white folks bringing the benefits of civilization to the darker people around the world. Of course, we're still dealing with that mindset in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. :gun1

I know we're all supposed to be afraid of Muslims right now (and Hispanics, to a lesser extent), but the Christianist warrior types scare the poo out of me. Those Quiverfull people who want to encourage more sprogging say it's not a REAL family till there's six kyds! More little warriors for God...

"but the Christianist warrior types scare the poo out of me. Those Quiverfull people who want to encourage more sprogging say it's not a REAL family till there's six kyds! More little warriors for God.."
And they live HERE already, and in many instances have already been installed - I mean, elected - into positions where they're able to force their wacky, pro-natalist beliefs on the rest of us. I mean, really, why do you think all these xtian pharmacists suddenly feel it's going to now be acceptable to deny people prescribed medications simply because of their "beliefs"? Or for school boards to say that "evolution is merely a theory, thusly we should also teach a made up book as science"? Or why in many states it's nearly impossible to receive an abortion, simply due to a lack of doctors willing to put their lives on the line to provide a medical procedure to women who request it?

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is very serious concern in some quarters
> about the growing Muslim population in Europe
> because of the huge difference in cultures and
> what it would mean for freedoms if Muslims became
> politically more powerful—let alone the majority
> of the population. Just look at the prior history
> of Muslim invasions of Europe in the Dark and
> Middle Ages to get an idea of what a takeover of
> Europe would entail. It's not just a case of
> "whites" not wanting darker-skinned people to
> immigrate; there's more to the whole issue. A
> large change in society, from allowing fecund
> groups who don't respect liberty and traditions to
> enter, would imperil every citizen regardless of
> color.

I agree. I work with some people who are from England and this is, indeed, a VERY serious concern. These co-workers keep close tabs on what is happening in their homeland and they are starting to become alarmed. One is thinking of moving his parents from London to the US particularly for this reason. We do NOT want these animals to have any political power whatsoever.

Unfortunately, they keep creeping into the US, they breed and their numbers increase. Next they start running for positions of real power. And if their population keeps increasing, they will eventually get voted into those positions. Give it 50 years and everyone in the US will be wearing burkahs. The American people won't wake up until it's too late.

Please don't blast me over this as I am merely stating some facts that I've come across through conversations with various people, this does not make me FOR or AGAINST this type of stuff. This is the basis of what the KKK and other white supremacist groups try to get out there to make people aware of what is happening in this country. They are not so much focused on the same race groups they have been in the past but are more focusing on the influx of the muslims and the other "terrorist" types before they've completely taken over this country. Some call this hate, but it could just possibly be that they don't hate what is in front of them but rather they love what is behind them.