Another encouragement to breed

I read this one on this website here:

http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/08/kids_are_worth.html


Here is the article:

vrbcik
November 12, 2007 04:53 AM

Reading this from Eastern Europe (Prague).

I have been to the U.S., and I am writing this as an expectant father. I have always thought that the costs for raising a child are very high here, too.

But my wife is a very practical woman, and I see there are many ways to raise your child. I think the U.S. is a country where people take others' opinions too seriously. You can arrange your child's free time activities very cheaply. It's more necessary to have time for them. You can take your child out in nature--hiking, sports--and not necessarily to play football and ice hockey, but rather biking and swimming, which need no special trainers or special courses.

As for culture: I didn't go to any concerts as a I child, and I did not miss them at all. You can go to any small club for live music. You can buy "last minute" theater tickets for 25% the price. You do not have to arrange birthday parties for 20 children. My wife has arranged her birthday party for 40 people very cheaply--$180 (and we have food prices almost the same as in the U.S.).

I would like to know, how is it possible that middle class (or lower middle class) Hispanics can afford to have so many children? I think it's their more practical way of thinking. I think children should know that nothing is free, and money has some value. If they know this, they can surely understand that the parents cannot support them in further study. I was earning money for myself when studying for my bachelor's and master's--I didn't take any money from my parents.

For college and further education costs, I must tell you that I would not pay $150,000 a year for education. If you send your child to Prague, he or she can study at three universities with a master's and all costs covered. We have counted, and the monthly cost here is not more than $500.

I think the conclusion is that your child is not your master. You can raise your child to be modest in his or her thinking. You can raise a good man with the ability to go to college even without going to private schools. You do not always have to buy him or her the latest cloths. It's always your choice. You shouldn't take others' opinions as rules for your behavior and raising your children.

This idiot is high on breeder weed. While he can sit here and tell me that he can raise a child on little money, I know that it takes even less money to raise a child in Mexico and even less in a poor African country. Slovak republic is a communist nuclear dump and his sorry ass is proud of it. Did he ever think how his shit hole got this way? It's breeding, of course. If I was the kid living in those countries, I would really hate my parents for bringing me to life. Our, American, lifestyle is a result of a civilization. Our consumption would not be a problem if we only did not breed so much!

Now, Hispanic families are a different story. Many came here illegally and enjoy damaging the quality of life USA has to offer. They do so by means of theft, crime, drugs and wage depression. They need anchor kids. They need those kids to collect welfare and suck us, hard working Americans, out of money. There are exceptions to this rule, but it does not include single Hispanic mothers at the welfare office.

BTW, I am tired of unsupported comments coming out of Socialist camp countries. Those places have no access to good life or freedom. That communist and socialist support is great for John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, but not any good for the American well being. I am glad there is a Slovak republic to keep idiots like that in there. We sure do not need them in civilized, freedom respecting world.

Just an observation:

Norwegians have as high of a quality of life as Americans do. They pay much higher taxes so that everyone has health care, retirement benefits, disability benefits, welfare benefits, and a year off (with pay) after the birth of a child. Their universities are subsidized, much of their electricicy is hydroelectric, they have working public transit systems, and they have more than two viable political parties.

You dont *have* to do everything like America does in order to have a functioning society with a high quality of life. Being fiscally conservative and socially liberal does not condemn a country to poverty. It solves some problems and creates others.

But just like America, Norway's generous benefits are now under attack by immigrants seeking an easier path to riches. While most Norwegians I met when I lived there were happy to work and pay taxes, knowing that everyone gets something out of the system eventually, and are culturally conditioned not to abuse the privilege, the newcomers see it differently. They conceal income so they don't pay taxes on it, they smuggle in food and alcohol from cheaper countries (which they sell at their little shops) so they don't have to pay import taxes, they have gajillions of children, and then simultaneously claim benefits intended for the poor or disabled.

Norway is now having to fight back. One way they are fighting back is by requiring every immigrant to take Norwegian language and culture classes as a condition of residence. They are rejecting applications from religious fundamentalists who teach that the liberal culture of Scandinavia is "evil". They are doing more auditing of social services and those who receive them.

America needs to do some of the same, I think. We are definitely being drained. The war is draining us. Medicaid is draining us. Child tax credits and child care deductions for middle class families are draining us. We could do so much more for *everyone* if only we weren't wasting it in silly ways. I'm with you, there.

I just don't believe a Western lifestyle is necessary for happiness. Psychological studies have proved that if you have the necessities of life, and are free from illness, and have a social network, you will basically be happy most of the time. That means you can be happy while being relatively poor and disadvantaged. You can be happy in Prague.

Sibyl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just an observation:
>
> Norwegians have as high of a quality of life as
> Americans do. They pay much higher taxes so that
> everyone has health care, retirement benefits,
> disability benefits, welfare benefits, and a year
> off (with pay) after the birth of a child. Their
> universities are subsidized, much of their
> electricicy is hydroelectric, they have working
> public transit systems, and they have more than
> two viable political parties.

You would have to pay more taxes to support many more parties. Anything that a government runs is not usually ran very efficiently. If you pay for for 1 year maternity leave, you are paying for 2, where the next one goes into governmental bureaucracy. Norway's few doors' down neighbors, the Soviets, had the same great idea. Yep, there are in the same hole that Norway is going to be in later down the road. I respect people of Norway and their education levels but a government, regardless who's it is, is a big drain. It will cost Norway it's future!


> You dont *have* to do everything like America does
> in order to have a functioning society with a high
> quality of life. Being fiscally conservative and
> socially liberal does not condemn a country to
> poverty. It solves some problems and creates
> others.

Getting government involved creates more problems than it solves. Money WILL be wasted. It will go unmonitored. It will be stolen by politicians and crooks alike. They will have all the riches, drive expensive cars, live in huge houses, while they will tell you to live small and consume very little. Just have kids so the guys at the top can have a cozy, comfortable future while your kids are killing themselves paying taxes.

> But just like America, Norway's generous benefits
> are now under attack by immigrants seeking an
> easier path to riches.
And just like the USA government, the Norway is there and happy to foolishly and willingly give away the stuff that people of Norway have earned. How does that feel? Feeling all "Socially Liberal" yet?
> While most Norwegians I
> met when I lived there were happy to work and pay
> taxes, knowing that everyone gets something out of
> the system eventually, and are culturally
> conditioned not to abuse the privilege, the
> newcomers see it differently.

And government lets them come, abuse the country and shut their own citizens up if they dare to speak up.

> They conceal income
> so they don't pay taxes on it, they smuggle in
> food and alcohol from cheaper countries
Here in USA, we smuggle cheap labor and Chinese goods along with cheap expertise from India. Does not leave much for people, does it?

> (which they sell at their little shops) so they don't
> have to pay import taxes, they have gajillions of
> children, and then simultaneously claim benefits
> intended for the poor or disabled.

Because Norway's government is just as irresponsible as any other government. People of Norway will pay higher taxes, they will turn around and give it all away to crooks (I meant immigrants) that could give a rats ass about anybody but themselves.

> Norway is now having to fight back.

If this fight is anything like a "fight" against illegal immigration in USA, I tell ya, it is not much of a fight, it is rather a giveaway of our souls.

> One way they are fighting back is by requiring every immigrant
> to take Norwegian language and culture classes as
> a condition of residence. They are rejecting
> applications from religious fundamentalists who
> teach that the liberal culture of Scandinavia is
> "evil". They are doing more auditing of social
> services and those who receive them.
>
> America needs to do some of the same, I think. We
> are definitely being drained. The war is draining
> us. Medicaid is draining us. Child tax credits
> and child care deductions for middle class
> families are draining us. We could do so much
> more for *everyone* if only we weren't wasting it
> in silly ways.
We could encourage breeding, for example. Hey, Norway does it, why not us? I do not like the Norway's 30% sales tax, did you?

> I'm with you, there.

That's debatable.
>
> I just don't believe a Western lifestyle is
> necessary for happiness.
(Nor do the famous dictators, communists and Muslim extremists.)

> Psychological studies have proved that if you have the necessities of
> life,

(if they let you live)

> and are free from illness

(if not, they WILL have work for you in Siberia)

> and have a social
> network,

(plenty of that among al Qaeda and Hamas)

> you will basically be happy most of the
> time. That means you can be happy while being
> relatively poor and disadvantaged. You can be
> happy in Prague.

Yes, Fidel Castro, yes. That is the exact policy of the famous and mighty Fidel, Stalin, Lenin, Chauchesku, Mao ZeDong - all these guys felt that humans did not need anything. They kept their people poor enough to prevent uprising. People did not "need anything" in those leaders' countries. Heck, you were lucky to be alive!

I was so mad at this guy from Prague, I just had to comment.

vrbcik
November 12, 2007 04:53 AM

Reading this from Eastern Europe (Prague).

I have been to the U.S., and I am writing this as an expectant father. I have always thought that the costs for raising a child are very high here, too.

No shit, we at least attempt to take care of the kids we got. Unlike Prague, our kids do not run around barefoot and actually do wear underwear on a beach. You know what I mean.

But my wife is a very practical woman,

There is nothing practical about you or your breeder minded ideology. She may not be that practical after all, what is she doing with you, anyways?

and I see there are many ways to raise your child. I think the U.S. is a country where people take others' opinions too seriously.

I cannot take anything you say too seriously

You can arrange your child's free time activities very cheaply.

There is not much of a choice you got, pal. Average pay in Prague is no more than $400 per month. You ain't got much left after paying $400/month for a 500 sq. foot flat in a Soviet era high rise.

It's more necessary to have time for them.

So they do not join a local gang and you do not have to pay out a ransom fee they charge.

You can take your child out in nature--hiking, sports--and not necessarily to play football and ice hockey, but rather biking and swimming, which need no special trainers or special courses.

Because in your country, if any of major gang leaders discovers you got any money, you will be haunted down and tortured by them until you pay up. If you do not, they will rape your wife and torture your child in front of you.

As for culture: I didn't go to any concerts as a I child, and I did not miss them at all.

If you were a child, it was too dangerous to walk the streets with gang ridden neighborhoods. You were risking your life, your parent's sanity and your girlfriend's pussy. Of course you did not go to no freaking concerts. The concert you could get could be the one of you screaming!

You can go to any small club for live music. You can buy "last minute" theater tickets for 25% the price. You do not have to arrange birthday parties for 20 children. My wife has arranged her birthday party for 40 people very cheaply--$180 (and we have food prices almost the same as in the U.S.).

I am surprised you had any money left after paying your rent and buying expensive food. $180 is cheap if you are a gang leader and you make others pay.

I would like to know, how is it possible that middle class (or lower middle class) Hispanics can afford to have so many children?

Pretty damn simple. We, Americans, pay for it though our taxes.

I think it's their more practical way of thinking.

Of course, who would not want free money. Wouldn't you take free cash if we paid for it? I bet my tax dollars you would!

I think children should know that nothing is free, and money has some value.

They know who's paying for it. It's those low lives who speak English!

If they know this, they can surely understand that the parents cannot support them in further study.

It is why the taxpayers support the further study.

I was earning money for myself when studying for my bachelor's and master's--I didn't take any money from my parents.

Neither do they. All money goes back to the home country via Money Gram and Western Union. Our tax dollars at their best.

For college and further education costs, I must tell you that I would not pay $150,000 a year for education.

You would not have a choice. Without it, jobs are not really open to you. Drain, caused by illegals, is costing everyone money.

If you send your child to Prague, he or she can study at three universities with a master's and all costs covered. We have counted, and the monthly cost here is not more than $500.

If you earn $400 a month, that your figure is very large. Need money? Let's go to America! I will feel very sad for America if the standard of life ever gets down as low as it is in Prague. It is exactly what we are trying to prevent. Cutting support off to breeders is a good start.

Sorry, I thought we were having a friendly exchange of ideas. Your vitriol does not leave much room to do much other than fight or walk away.

I shall do both.

Norway has no national debt. They have a surplus fund worth billions. I think that is one reason why they are an attractive target for moochers. They are very rich.

I believe the sales tax was 24% on non-food items. It did not bother me terribly. I don't have grandiose needs. I could go to a hospital or a doctor when I needed to, and I did not have to own a car to get around. I understood that it cost me, but I appreciated that it was a social pact I was happy to contribute to.

I see private control as having as much inherent corruption and waste as government control. After all, our government is technically ruled by the people, whereas a private venture is ruled by the few. Government is not the enemy. Private industry is not the enemy. The enemy is human nature. It ruins all idealism, including libertarian idealism.

Good day to you.

Sibyl, I appreciate all the comments you got. I may not agree with everything, but I fully respect what you have to say.

I too have traveled the world for a little while. In fact, longer than I wanted too. I've seen filthy rich liberals and dirt poor bible thumpers. I've seen it the other way around too. I did not get much enjoyment from restrictive laws of Europe and most of all, I did not like paying their "sales taxes" after they took 50% or so of my income. Maybe they did it because I was am American.

I did not appreciate "Firearm Tax" in certain countries, I did not appreciate government mandated physical exams in Sweden.

Of course, I would like to say that bathrooms in Europe do not stink, but the holes in the floor made for shitting (Italy) give it away.

I love America, and I have a very hard time seeing it change. I loved it that when I worked 15 years ago, I had the best medical care in the world, right here in the USA. I think we went in the wrong direction here. It was worth it to work for a global company 15 years ago. Today, it's not so.

I am glad you had a good experience in Norway. I did too. For the most part. On the same hand, I saw how little average people asked for and how much the government employees have demanded. It made me sick. They were the same people who preached cleaned air that owned private jets. It is not looking good over there, Sibyl. At least I do not think so.

Aside from that, feel free to comment. We all have opinions, sometimes, they all stink.

Europe will be in civil war in a decade or two, anyway. The seemingly unrestricted immigration coupled with the immigrant's unwillingness to assimilate will reach a critical point where the native Europeans who have had enough of this multicultural politically correct bullshit shoved down their throats will simply say "Fuck it" and take to the streets. Most likely by this stage the next Hitler (ie, some radical right-wing anti-migrant politician) will come along and tell everyone what they want to hear, and will gain massive support from the natives.

Tensions will be high until a relatively small incident is blown out of proportion (eg, the trigger for the Paris riots in 2005), sparking an even bigger conflict that might degenerate into rampant ethnic cleansing.

It'll probably start in Holland or France, followed soon after by UK, Sweden, Germany, Italy and other countries infested by muslims (lets face it, its muslims who are currently the main provocateurs) and other migrants who refuse to give up the shitty culture that was the reason for their migration in the first place.

When all this starts, other nations, mostly in Asia and Africa with mixed muslim/non-muslim populations will experience a similar shit-storm as muslims start attacking non-muslims in "retaliation" for what is happening to their bretheren in Europe. It'll be a blood bath that would make the European ethnic cleansing look like a barfight.

While all this is going on in Europe, imagine what might occur in the southern United States, with its ongoing influx of illegals from Mexico. Also consider the fact that Americans have much greater access to weaponry than the Europeans do.

Fun times ahead.

I forgot that a nation's quality of life is always based on how it measures up to America. Must've been distracted by all of that flag-waving and fearmongering.

Ketchup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I forgot that a nation's quality of life is always
> based on how it measures up to America. Must've
> been distracted by all of that flag-waving and
> fearmongering.

Our quality of life is GREAT!! Make one mistake, like getting sick, and you get a nice quality of curb to sleep on, and only the highest quality of cardboard housing. Everything is GREAT in America, and it's the way of life everyone should aspire to! Constant growth IS sustainable. Ohhh...and did I mention the Freedom?

Corporations are GREAT too! They are the MOST EFFICIENT and PRODUCTIVE entities on the planet. There isn't ONE instance of a person in a corporation getting paid to do NOTHING of use, or even getting paid while still maintaining a high degree of incompetence. Everyone in a corporation is ACCOUNTABLE.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Techie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I too have traveled the world for a little while.
> In fact, longer than I wanted too. I've seen
> filthy rich liberals and dirt poor bible thumpers.
> I've seen it the other way around too. I did not
> get much enjoyment from restrictive laws of Europe
> and most of all, I did not like paying their
> "sales taxes" after they took 50% or so of my
> income. Maybe they did it because I was am
> American.

Ouch. I know if you set up a dual residence somewhere (half the year in Europe, half the year in America) you can get totally soaked when paying taxes. Norway and the US have an agreement where you don't have to pay taxes in one country if you live full-time in the other. But if you live in both places for enough of the year... oy.

Techie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, I would like to say that bathrooms in
> Europe do not stink, but the holes in the floor
> made for shitting (Italy) give it away.

Eww. It's like the rest stops I used to encounter when driving around the US.

Public bathrooms in Europe do leave much to be desired. They are often also completely absent. My favorites were the French "unisex" bathrooms, where I'd walk past lines of men peeing in urinals to get to a stall. I thought it was funny, but I can imagine the horror of the typical sex-segregated American upon encountering one of those!

Techie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love America, and I have a very hard time seeing
> it change. I loved it that when I worked 15 years
> ago, I had the best medical care in the world,
> right here in the USA. I think we went in the
> wrong direction here. It was worth it to work for
> a global company 15 years ago. Today, it's not
> so.

We're definitely going in some upsetting directions. Fifty years ago, the world population was approximately half what it is now. Companies can move all over the world, but people can't unless they're rich, oppressed, married, in a specific profession, or illegal. Legal immigrants largely add value to a local economy, probably because they are more likely to be well-educated and financially better off in order to be accepted. As for the undocumented immigrants, I don't know.

I don't know that immigration is half as big of a problem as breeding, anyway. Public assistance should require use of birth control.

Techie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aside from that, feel free to comment. We all
> have opinions, sometimes, they all stink.

Everywhere does have its little problems. Thanks for clarifying your intentions.

I lived in France for a while, too. They are not doing nearly as well as Norway. I think Norway benefits quite a lot from the European Union asylum laws: you must ask for asylum in the first EU country you enter. That means all the "border" countries of the EU are probably drowning in immigration applications.