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i have not the words
Posted by mercurior
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i have not the words January 30, 2008 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 4,402 |
http://yanyb.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/round-one/
this may not seem like cf related its about fat acceptance mostly, but reading it i find something thats disturbing.
i understand abortions if you dont want kids etc.. but there is a group of women who would abort if the kid was genetically predisposed to being fat.
the 2nd one down. (it says one in 10 parents would abort a child if they knew it had a genetic tendency to be fat).
that sort of selection of child does the cf or people who really need abortions no good at all it trivialises the procedure. when parents would say things like that. and i am sure some will use that as an excuse to ban it, "See these people they just want to get rid so they can have the perfect family no fat etc so why not ban them all because we know they are shallow people and if 10% do it then there must be more people thinking the same.. "
what do you think?
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
this may not seem like cf related its about fat acceptance mostly, but reading it i find something thats disturbing.
i understand abortions if you dont want kids etc.. but there is a group of women who would abort if the kid was genetically predisposed to being fat.
the 2nd one down. (it says one in 10 parents would abort a child if they knew it had a genetic tendency to be fat).
that sort of selection of child does the cf or people who really need abortions no good at all it trivialises the procedure. when parents would say things like that. and i am sure some will use that as an excuse to ban it, "See these people they just want to get rid so they can have the perfect family no fat etc so why not ban them all because we know they are shallow people and if 10% do it then there must be more people thinking the same.. "
what do you think?
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
Non-PoliticallyCorrect
Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 |
Great... all we need is some lefty to claim this is "eugenics" (which it pretty much is... selective breeding/abortion in order to improve the genetic quality of the next generation), which might lead to more restrictions on abortion.
The problem with eugenics is that its very name has been tarnished by being associated with Hitler's plan for an Ayrian race, just like nuclear power's name has been muddied by Chernobyl. Any mention of supporting eugenics is met with instant comparisons to Hitler, the haulocaust, etc, thus stifling any argument or debate. The fact is that neither technology is inherently good or bad, it just depends how it is applied and what safeguards are in place to prevent misuse.
I will agree that aborting a baby because it might be genetically predisposed to obesity might be a bit extreme, but would you say the same thing about someone aborting a baby because it might have a high chance of cystic fibrosis or downs syndrome or some other disability? Its a very fuzzy line between "acceptable" and "extreme", and its this line that will be defined in the near future, methinks. Who defines it will probably be more important.
The problem with eugenics is that its very name has been tarnished by being associated with Hitler's plan for an Ayrian race, just like nuclear power's name has been muddied by Chernobyl. Any mention of supporting eugenics is met with instant comparisons to Hitler, the haulocaust, etc, thus stifling any argument or debate. The fact is that neither technology is inherently good or bad, it just depends how it is applied and what safeguards are in place to prevent misuse.
I will agree that aborting a baby because it might be genetically predisposed to obesity might be a bit extreme, but would you say the same thing about someone aborting a baby because it might have a high chance of cystic fibrosis or downs syndrome or some other disability? Its a very fuzzy line between "acceptable" and "extreme", and its this line that will be defined in the near future, methinks. Who defines it will probably be more important.
Anonymous User
Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 |
I guess where does the designerism stop. I think the process of selecting out defective genes would not take overnight as the whole population is riddled with deleterious genes of varying degrees and of different sorts.
They might be able to select out obesity genes but overlook a breast cancer genes.
Only well-off people can afford this level of designerism.
Stupids and poor don't seem to give a damn about anything they inflict on a child. All you need to do is watch a few episodes of Judge Judy (and others) on how little care and thought is given to sprogging by a certain trailer trash level of society. They do not care who they breed with and usually they pick the biggest piece of scum they can find in order to be serviced. (of course it is somewhat amusing to watch the reactions when they start suffering the consequences of picking scum as 'moo' or 'duh'.) Probably it is because they are scum themselves and like seeks like.
They might be able to select out obesity genes but overlook a breast cancer genes.
Only well-off people can afford this level of designerism.
Stupids and poor don't seem to give a damn about anything they inflict on a child. All you need to do is watch a few episodes of Judge Judy (and others) on how little care and thought is given to sprogging by a certain trailer trash level of society. They do not care who they breed with and usually they pick the biggest piece of scum they can find in order to be serviced. (of course it is somewhat amusing to watch the reactions when they start suffering the consequences of picking scum as 'moo' or 'duh'.) Probably it is because they are scum themselves and like seeks like.
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Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,073 |
Non-PoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> I will agree that aborting a baby because it might
> be genetically predisposed to obesity might be a
> bit extreme, but would you say the same thing
> about someone aborting a baby because it might
> have a high chance of cystic fibrosis or downs
> syndrome or some other disability? Its a very
> fuzzy line between "acceptable" and "extreme", and
> its this line that will be defined in the near
> future, methinks. Who defines it will probably be
> more important.
I know this sounds crazy, but it is possible for a fat person to live a decent, pain free, productive and relatively healthy life. And may indeed live for quite a few years on their own without any need for additional care by their parents or others..which leads me to the conclusion that simply being fat is not in any way equal to cystic fibrosis or downs syndrome, and that the "fuzzy line" some might see between a disabling condition and being larger than the norm isn't quite so fuzzy after all.
I don't think this is a eugenics issue anyway. It's a breeder issue, and the fact that breeders in general see children as either fashion accessories or something to live vicariously through. If you're having a kid because "everyone else is doing it" and "they're so cute to dress up and carry around" you are having a kid for fashion's sake. If you were mildly unpopular in school, as a breeder you suddenly have the chance to encourage your child to strive to be popular, allowing you as the breeder access to the parents of the popular children and making you one of the "cool kids" as a result. Or better yet, a breeder will try to be their kid's best friend, and allow it all sorts of leeway in the behavior department (possibly even facilitating the purchase of alcohol and leaving the house so the child can have parties in it, raising it's status and by default your own) with the hopes that they'll be allowed a brief interaction with the world of the "cool kids", and possibly even befriend them, making you as the breeder a "cool kid" yourself.
If you have a fat kid, none of this will ever come to pass because fat kids are unfashionable and generally not popular, no matter how many beer parties they're able to throw while their breeders are away. It has nothing to do with income level, the rich can be just as evil to their children but have the benefits of being able to keep it behind closed doors. Breeders do not have children for any reason beyond their own desires or needs, they're definitely not trying to improve society or the gene pool.
"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me
------------------------------------------------------
> I will agree that aborting a baby because it might
> be genetically predisposed to obesity might be a
> bit extreme, but would you say the same thing
> about someone aborting a baby because it might
> have a high chance of cystic fibrosis or downs
> syndrome or some other disability? Its a very
> fuzzy line between "acceptable" and "extreme", and
> its this line that will be defined in the near
> future, methinks. Who defines it will probably be
> more important.
I know this sounds crazy, but it is possible for a fat person to live a decent, pain free, productive and relatively healthy life. And may indeed live for quite a few years on their own without any need for additional care by their parents or others..which leads me to the conclusion that simply being fat is not in any way equal to cystic fibrosis or downs syndrome, and that the "fuzzy line" some might see between a disabling condition and being larger than the norm isn't quite so fuzzy after all.
I don't think this is a eugenics issue anyway. It's a breeder issue, and the fact that breeders in general see children as either fashion accessories or something to live vicariously through. If you're having a kid because "everyone else is doing it" and "they're so cute to dress up and carry around" you are having a kid for fashion's sake. If you were mildly unpopular in school, as a breeder you suddenly have the chance to encourage your child to strive to be popular, allowing you as the breeder access to the parents of the popular children and making you one of the "cool kids" as a result. Or better yet, a breeder will try to be their kid's best friend, and allow it all sorts of leeway in the behavior department (possibly even facilitating the purchase of alcohol and leaving the house so the child can have parties in it, raising it's status and by default your own) with the hopes that they'll be allowed a brief interaction with the world of the "cool kids", and possibly even befriend them, making you as the breeder a "cool kid" yourself.
If you have a fat kid, none of this will ever come to pass because fat kids are unfashionable and generally not popular, no matter how many beer parties they're able to throw while their breeders are away. It has nothing to do with income level, the rich can be just as evil to their children but have the benefits of being able to keep it behind closed doors. Breeders do not have children for any reason beyond their own desires or needs, they're definitely not trying to improve society or the gene pool.
"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me
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Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,897 |
Why worry about looks so much?
How about these qualities instead:
1. are you a good person who does good things for others
2. do you obey the law
3. are you kind to animals
4. are you an upstanding, hard working, tax paying citizen
5. do you respect the earth and other living things
Sorry but I'd rather spend time with the most revolting-looking human with all these good qualities over a beautiful person with an ugly inside anyday.
And if breeders are so worried about the offspring they will produce, then they should err to the side of the conservative and NOT BREED. Why roll the dice?
How about these qualities instead:
1. are you a good person who does good things for others
2. do you obey the law
3. are you kind to animals
4. are you an upstanding, hard working, tax paying citizen
5. do you respect the earth and other living things
Sorry but I'd rather spend time with the most revolting-looking human with all these good qualities over a beautiful person with an ugly inside anyday.
And if breeders are so worried about the offspring they will produce, then they should err to the side of the conservative and NOT BREED. Why roll the dice?
Anonymous User
Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 |
I also stand by my assertion that so much stupid breeding is allowed because it will give those who want to limit reproduction the ammunition to put limits and restrictions on sprogging.
Look at it logically. Stupid sprogging costs taxpayers increasing amounts of money as the number of stupids breeding increases. Due to the pathologies and dysfunctionalism this type of sprogging causes (abuse, drugs, psychopathic kids, acting out kids, and as I pointed out earlier in another post, these stupids pick bottom of the barrel scum as 'duh' or 'moo' etc) more money is demanded from taxpayers to pay for all of this. Throw in the increasing entitlements these stupids demand (breakfast, lunch, dinner, day care at school for the teen whores, free day care so the welfare parasites can screw another welfare baby into existence...) ..Add in the money we are paying out for retirees, disabled, and illegal brood sows, eventually the taxpayer is going to yell 'uncle'. That is when government will step in and state that breeding will be controlled, everyone has to sign over their 'rights', since everyone has to be treated equally, ...see? If you look at a lot of things going on in this type of light, maybe it is a conspiracy...
Look at it logically. Stupid sprogging costs taxpayers increasing amounts of money as the number of stupids breeding increases. Due to the pathologies and dysfunctionalism this type of sprogging causes (abuse, drugs, psychopathic kids, acting out kids, and as I pointed out earlier in another post, these stupids pick bottom of the barrel scum as 'duh' or 'moo' etc) more money is demanded from taxpayers to pay for all of this. Throw in the increasing entitlements these stupids demand (breakfast, lunch, dinner, day care at school for the teen whores, free day care so the welfare parasites can screw another welfare baby into existence...) ..Add in the money we are paying out for retirees, disabled, and illegal brood sows, eventually the taxpayer is going to yell 'uncle'. That is when government will step in and state that breeding will be controlled, everyone has to sign over their 'rights', since everyone has to be treated equally, ...see? If you look at a lot of things going on in this type of light, maybe it is a conspiracy...
k-man
Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 |
Mercurior and I share the "large" problem. I've been morbidly obese all my life, but have been a productive member of society and for now take care of my mother full-time (as I took care of her and my beloved stepfather before he passed away in November). Two years ago I was the employee of the quarter at the correctional facility where I worked until I left to take care of them. Also, I am a stickler for personal cleanliness and hygiene.
I agree with everything that's been said on this thread so far. There is a real risk of people wanting just-so, perfect babies and children. There is also an appalling dislike of and discrimination against those with weight problems in society. I was obese back in the 1970s as a child long before it became common, in part because my natural father was and still is huge. For many years he was over 400 pounds. Nonetheless, he felt free to abuse me physically and call me endearing names such as "fat boy" during my childhood, and today I have little to do with his sorry ass. Nonetheless, that was excellent preparation for the discrimination I have experienced since then, including not getting jobs and promotions.
Hatred of the overweight and obese seems to be the last such acceptable today. But some people need a clue: if someone is morbidly obese as opposed to simply a bit overweight, there is something more going on with that person than simply "not exercising willpower" and "gorging on food all the time". Physical, genetic, psychological, and emotional factors are involved that society needs to deal with in a much more positive way for these people. Unfortunately, the idea of abortions to prevent fat kids simply encourages more hatred and discrimination against people who have a physical condition that, frankly, is no one else's fucking business.
I agree with everything that's been said on this thread so far. There is a real risk of people wanting just-so, perfect babies and children. There is also an appalling dislike of and discrimination against those with weight problems in society. I was obese back in the 1970s as a child long before it became common, in part because my natural father was and still is huge. For many years he was over 400 pounds. Nonetheless, he felt free to abuse me physically and call me endearing names such as "fat boy" during my childhood, and today I have little to do with his sorry ass. Nonetheless, that was excellent preparation for the discrimination I have experienced since then, including not getting jobs and promotions.
Hatred of the overweight and obese seems to be the last such acceptable today. But some people need a clue: if someone is morbidly obese as opposed to simply a bit overweight, there is something more going on with that person than simply "not exercising willpower" and "gorging on food all the time". Physical, genetic, psychological, and emotional factors are involved that society needs to deal with in a much more positive way for these people. Unfortunately, the idea of abortions to prevent fat kids simply encourages more hatred and discrimination against people who have a physical condition that, frankly, is no one else's fucking business.
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Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 4,402 |
and it has a negative effect on abortion and the sense of why you need them.
i am healthy apart from constant sore throats and 2 broken ankles (slipped in some mud and crack healed wrong due to medical negligence)..
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
i am healthy apart from constant sore throats and 2 broken ankles (slipped in some mud and crack healed wrong due to medical negligence)..
*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii
Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.â€
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
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Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 2,348 |
Anonymous User
Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 |
Banshee, 'Gattaca' was my first thought as well. It's been several years since I saw that movie, but if I'm remembering correctly, being just the slightest bit out of the norm, for instance being left handed, was seen as defective. Oops, there goes half my family.
On the one hand, I can't really see a problem with eliminating diseases that significantly impair a person's quality of life. Not only diseases like MS and cystic fibrosis, but more extreme and rare conditions that turn a person's life into a freak sideshow or caricature of what life is supposed to be.
On the other hand, I'm cynical enough about human nature to know that while it might have started out 'for the good of humanity' it will eventually turn into 'Gattaca' or 'Brave New World' with people being bred for 'perfection' or into certain castes and jobs.
Too bad we can't screen for megalomania, willfull stupidty or the desire to chew with one's mouth open. *snark*
On the one hand, I can't really see a problem with eliminating diseases that significantly impair a person's quality of life. Not only diseases like MS and cystic fibrosis, but more extreme and rare conditions that turn a person's life into a freak sideshow or caricature of what life is supposed to be.
On the other hand, I'm cynical enough about human nature to know that while it might have started out 'for the good of humanity' it will eventually turn into 'Gattaca' or 'Brave New World' with people being bred for 'perfection' or into certain castes and jobs.
Too bad we can't screen for megalomania, willfull stupidty or the desire to chew with one's mouth open. *snark*
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Re: i have not the words January 30, 2008 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 3,454 |
k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mercurior and I share the "large" problem. I've
> been morbidly obese all my life, but have been a
> productive member of society and for now take care
> of my mother full-time (as I took care of her and
> my beloved stepfather before he passed away in
> November). Two years ago I was the employee of
> the quarter at the correctional facility where I
> worked until I left to take care of them. Also, I
> am a stickler for personal cleanliness and
> hygiene.
>
> I agree with everything that's been said on this
> thread so far. There is a real risk of people
> wanting just-so, perfect babies and children.
> There is also an appalling dislike of and
> discrimination against those with weight problems
> in society. I was obese back in the 1970s as a
> child long before it became common, in part
> because my natural father was and still is huge.
> For many years he was over 400 pounds.
> Nonetheless, he felt free to abuse me physically
> and call me endearing names such as "fat boy"
> during my childhood, and today I have little to do
> with his sorry ass. Nonetheless, that was
> excellent preparation for the discrimination I
> have experienced since then, including not getting
> jobs and promotions.
>
> Hatred of the overweight and obese seems to be the
> last such acceptable today. But some people need
> a clue: if someone is morbidly obese as opposed to
> simply a bit overweight, there is something more
> going on with that person than simply "not
> exercising willpower" and "gorging on food all the
> time". Physical, genetic, psychological, and
> emotional factors are involved that society needs
> to deal with in a much more positive way for these
> people. Unfortunately, the idea of abortions to
> prevent fat kids simply encourages more hatred and
> discrimination against people who have a physical
> condition that, frankly, is no one else's fucking
> business.
I hear you there, k-man. While I am 190lbs and 6'4", you would think I would get treated different. Nope. I am a light hair, light eyes, fair skin caucasian male, and that, my friend, is politically incorrect.
I am completely unable to get government jobs and I will not be able to be anyone's boss because I "would represent a racist!" I cannot teach in a school because I am not married. I say good luck with being a straight, white male! It's not politically correct to be a white male nowdays!
Then, you got breeders who think that white and tall MUST breed. WTF?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mercurior and I share the "large" problem. I've
> been morbidly obese all my life, but have been a
> productive member of society and for now take care
> of my mother full-time (as I took care of her and
> my beloved stepfather before he passed away in
> November). Two years ago I was the employee of
> the quarter at the correctional facility where I
> worked until I left to take care of them. Also, I
> am a stickler for personal cleanliness and
> hygiene.
>
> I agree with everything that's been said on this
> thread so far. There is a real risk of people
> wanting just-so, perfect babies and children.
> There is also an appalling dislike of and
> discrimination against those with weight problems
> in society. I was obese back in the 1970s as a
> child long before it became common, in part
> because my natural father was and still is huge.
> For many years he was over 400 pounds.
> Nonetheless, he felt free to abuse me physically
> and call me endearing names such as "fat boy"
> during my childhood, and today I have little to do
> with his sorry ass. Nonetheless, that was
> excellent preparation for the discrimination I
> have experienced since then, including not getting
> jobs and promotions.
>
> Hatred of the overweight and obese seems to be the
> last such acceptable today. But some people need
> a clue: if someone is morbidly obese as opposed to
> simply a bit overweight, there is something more
> going on with that person than simply "not
> exercising willpower" and "gorging on food all the
> time". Physical, genetic, psychological, and
> emotional factors are involved that society needs
> to deal with in a much more positive way for these
> people. Unfortunately, the idea of abortions to
> prevent fat kids simply encourages more hatred and
> discrimination against people who have a physical
> condition that, frankly, is no one else's fucking
> business.
I hear you there, k-man. While I am 190lbs and 6'4", you would think I would get treated different. Nope. I am a light hair, light eyes, fair skin caucasian male, and that, my friend, is politically incorrect.
I am completely unable to get government jobs and I will not be able to be anyone's boss because I "would represent a racist!" I cannot teach in a school because I am not married. I say good luck with being a straight, white male! It's not politically correct to be a white male nowdays!
Then, you got breeders who think that white and tall MUST breed. WTF?
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Re: i have not the words January 31, 2008 | Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,073 |
"Then, you got breeders who think that white and tall MUST breed. WTF?"
Because they're BREEDERS who just want pretty SPAWN to SHOW OFF and get presents and kudos for. Breeders are not parents. Breeders are machines that make more breeders and rarely, through no effort of their own, a thinking human slips out.
"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me
Because they're BREEDERS who just want pretty SPAWN to SHOW OFF and get presents and kudos for. Breeders are not parents. Breeders are machines that make more breeders and rarely, through no effort of their own, a thinking human slips out.
"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me
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