This is what I am PO'd about!

Nour Wrote:
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> Why is it that many of these threads becomes men
> vs. women. It seems like you to tend to make it
> out that way a lot Merc. Men who plop down those
> swimsuit calendars and Playboy are NOT
> enlightened. They are conditioned to think with
> their cocks even more than they actually do.

I used to side with Merc more -- issues such as women demanding huge divorce settlements if they had not contributed to the household, lying about contraception to trap a man, and using their gender or being a mother to do very little at work while the rest (male & female) picked up the slack -- until every-damned-thing had to be men vs. women with him and all be damned if the woman's side was taken. There are a lot of jackass males as well as many total ass-pain women such as Paris Hilton who just cried for her "get out of jail" ticket...while men could not do the same.

As for the Swimsuit Calenders, the issue is often how men will openly gawk at another woman in FRONT of their wife or significant other. It is disrespectful. I wonder how a guy would feel if the gal he was with went on about how great another fellow's ass or bulge in his pants looked when the same man will make comments about another woman's tits or their past sexcapades to their mates. How about some discretion when ogling and not feeling they have to be "so honest" about the past sexual relationships. It is one thing to be honest about the basics due to STDs but bragging about the "past" is uncool. Women behaving the same way would also be wrong.

amethusos it seems to me that you were the instigator of males v females. You cannot see viewpoints of anyone apart from your own.


Are you saying that it is OK for women to buy these seductive calendars and magazines and not the men.

I don't like them personally but why are you targetting the men yet again.

Are you saying these women who pose for these calendars and smutty magazines are OK to do that.

You need to look at your own viewpoint before commenting on others.

Second thoughts!

If the same comments were aimed at women there would be an outcry that a male had dared to say ***** which is understandable, but as soon as the opposite occurs ie. male defending another male that is deemed to be misogeny. Come Come now amethusos/ Nour you cannot have it both ways.

Can you not see that you are guilty of attacking any males that dare to disagree with your narrowminded views.

All you let yourselves see was "male contradicting females" which is not what it was at all, it was someone defending another person against your misandry view.

Based on my comment, it cannot be assumed that I attack any male who disagrees with me. Nor do I have a problem with a male defending a male. I understand that Merc is a big defender of men's rights. That's fine by me. They need defenders of their points of view. Men have their own set of pressures to deal with in being childfree. Me calling him out on tending to make a lot of CF threads male vs. female does not make me narrow minded. This tendency of quite a few threads becoming about how men are beaten down by women is very wearing and distracting.

Like Feh has put it various ways when threads tend to go this way (take a look back at some of the threads) a lot of men are assholes and a lot of women are assholes. They are pressured by society in different ways; sometimes in the same ways. My only question was WHY do threads have to get pulled down to this "battle of the sexes" business. It seems pointless to me. Like Am, I agree with you, Merc, about a lot of things.

Additionally, I don't care if men buy these calendars and nudie mags. I don't have negative opinions of women in them. This stuff doesn't bother me. I didn't like the whole idea that, well, men are somehow "better" or "enlightended about their sexual needs" because they can buy this stuff without feeling shame. So fucking what? Men experience shame in other ways, right?

And because I question why discussions tend to go down to male vs. female, that means I am a misandrist? RIIGHT...
::sarcasm::

Sorry Mour I thought you were agreeing with amethusos.

I don't come a lot but every time she starts this male/female argument off.

There are always two sides to a story but it tends to get focussed on the female side at the expense of the chaps and it simply is not good enough.

No wonder so many man are dismissive of women if these types of comments keep getting bandied around the internet like this.

You may not know that I work with Family Department at the office which involved family disputes etc., and I have seen the very worst in both sexes but I am afraid that it is the women who are the most malicious and conniving its not nice to see.

So when someone comes to the defence of a group of people who cannot defend themselves for them to be targetted and told they personally are the problem it is totally out of order and unfair to any group.

Not everyone has the strength of will to overcome their upbringing or their society as a whole, it takes a lot of soul searching, self awareness, exposure to alternate ideas, a willingness experience things outside your comfort zone and the distinct possibility of being alienated from the very society which created you. It's really not as simple as "be free motherfuckers". It's not about women v. men, but more about individuals v. society. Society tells both genders to fit in their roles, and people who stray from those roles are often demonized or stigmatized. The easiest way to control people is to punish them for not acting "normal".

Men who worship women solely based on their appearance, who can't show "weak" emotions, who believe that a woman's job is to make them cum and carry their children are just as retarded in their sexual and emotional development as the women who believe men are their caretakers, feeling sexual pleasure is bad, and their main mission in life is to make babies. In my estimation, both groups are equally worthy of pity (or scorn, depending on the mood).

Maybe it isn't solely about religion, but I believe religion plays a much more powerful force in the sexual directions society takes than any other factor. Businesses don't care who you're sticking it in or for what reason, as long as you're making them money. Government doesn't really care who you're sticking it in, as long as both parties are consenting and paying taxes. The only group I see who has a real vested interest in controlling people's sexual behaviors is religion because they've been the driving force behind nearly every "morals law" I can think of, and again, a populace who is totally focused on hiding their true selves and fitting in with the flock aren't going to be focusing on their leaders, or thinking about what the church is telling them.


And about this "in the case of religion, only the recent converts are so blind to the reality that you dont have to obey everything someone says." That is completely incorrect.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

giselle Wrote:
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> amethusos it seems to me that you were the
> instigator of males v females. You cannot see
> viewpoints of anyone apart from your own.

I am sorry you feel that way. Shame on me for having a voice. Perhaps, you want to volunteer to edit my posts?
>
> Are you saying that it is OK for women to buy
> these seductive calendars and magazines and not
> the men.

I never said that. I only mentioned the dynamics tend to be different when it comes to men and women buying sexually explicit material.
>
> I don't like them personally but why are you
> targetting the men yet again.

I am sorry for offending you by targeting those men as you see it. Is my opinion less than yours because you take a certain side? There are women who will get PO'd at another woman for daring not to defend a male. That is your choice, giselle.

> You need to look at your own viewpoint before
> commenting on others.

I definitely do. I suggest you do the same as you are also commenting on my viewpoint.

Nour Wrote:
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> Based on my comment, it cannot be assumed that I
> attack any male who disagrees with me. Nor do I
> have a problem with a male defending a male. I
> understand that Merc is a big defender of men's
> rights. That's fine by me. They need defenders of
> their points of view. Men have their own set of
> pressures to deal with in being childfree.

I also agree that defending men's rights is important. Too often in custody cases or other divorce issues, men get the shaft and are considered "guilty until proven innocent" in divorce court. Many women who did not contribute financially to the marriage or did not take care of any kids in that union are getting payouts from the ex-husband as if he is an ATM machine. Sad thing is a lot of childfree guys get shafted in divorce court as well because most men's groups are aimed towards non-custodial fathers. Go online for men's groups and they are all aimed for fathers with the exception of dating.

Nour Wrote:
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> And because I question why discussions tend to go
> down to male vs. female, that means I am a
> misandrist? RIIGHT...
> ::sarcasm::

That is always the case, right? Being outspoken never has made anyone popular. Glad I am not aiming for popularity or for just going along...

"Sad thing is a lot of childfree guys get shafted because most men's groups are aimed towards non-custodial fathers."

Even sadder, most childfree PEOPLE get shafted because most assistance groups are aimed at childed people. It's what happens to people in the minority. A pox on all their houses. From what I've seen any childed person, male or female, will use their children, or lack of, to play the martyr at the drop of a hat.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Giselle Wrote:
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> Sorry Mour I thought you were agreeing with
> amethusos.

*Gasp*...that would be so terrible now..wouldn't it??? Nour mustn't do that...

Feh Wrote:
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> "Sad thing is a lot of childfree guys get shafted
> because most men's groups are aimed towards
> non-custodial fathers."
>
> Even sadder, most childfree PEOPLE get shafted
> because most assistance groups are aimed at
> childed people. It's what happens to people in
> the minority. A pox on all their houses. From
> what I've seen any childed person, male or female,
> will use their children, or lack of, to play the
> martyr at the drop of a hat.

Tell me about it. If a woman has these babies with multiple fathers, the state/county throws all sort of $$$ at her, free health care, food stamps, and often freebies for college education. Forget about any grants for school if there are no dependents. Charities are aimed towards the childed such as donating cars for single mothers. I worked with a single moo where a church gave her a car. As soon as she got what she wanted from the church, she no longer attended. I doubt the same church would have been so willing to give a car to a single and childfree woman OR man.

i agree there are an equal amount of idiots male and female out there. but as i said if you give the impression that all men all religions are to blame, for everything and that a man cant stand up and say men do get shafted. without being called on it. or that i dont know about women just because i am male, thats disingenuous to all men who do try to be enlightened.

blaming all men for the actions of a minority, is exactly like how it was pre feminist movement. i am only standing up for those who dont feel comfortable speaking about such a contentious topic.

wrong is wrong, no matter what group is involved, (thats why i have the disclaimer on the bottom of my posts). i try to give an equal balance if someone is anti woman i have and will fight for them, and use everything i am to defend them.. same with men, or muslims or anyone else. to give an equal balanced view. a lot of people assume if i defend one group from obvious sexism or racism i beleive everything they say.. i dont i defend their rights to live their lives according to their own morals, but only if that doesnt affect anyone else.

there are scum men and i call them on it, but there are also scum women and i call them. i dont prefer one group over another i want equality for all. to have a one sided argument and to have no one to put another view is a slippery slope to so much discrimination. so thats what i do. i know some really evil catholics, i know some who are the nearest things to saints. i know some really wonderful women, not family but good dear friends who i will do anything for because they are GOOD people, i know some women i wouldnt mind beating to death and feel no remorse. but as i keep saying there needed to be a balanced side. thats all i do. i am a true equalist. everyone is equal.

do you get my arguments. anti male is destroyed just as must as anti female. with me.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
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> there are scum men and i call them on it, but
> there are also scum women and i call them.

Anyone can look at any past posts/threads to see I have called out asshole women as well as sexist men.

i have no real axe to grind, i just want men and women to be treated the same, by either sex, i will fight for the people who find it hard to fight back, i may not agree with everything they say, but they dont deserve to be treated badly just because people have the idea that they do this or that.

not everyone is the same, and to use broad comments, its bad, i want everyone to know not all men are like that, not all roman catholics are like that, not all women are like that. that was my whole argument. for every religious freak who follows every word, theres at least a dozen who listen and say sod that.. and some people love blaming others for the lack of direction, and expect everything given to them. these are the ones we should be having a go at.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

"i try to give an equal balance if someone is anti woman i have and will fight for them, and use everything i am to defend them.. same with men, or muslims or anyone else. to give an equal balanced view. a lot of people assume if i defend one group from obvious sexism or racism i beleive everything they say.. "

While I appreciate your desire to fight for the positions of people who aren't on this board, or who don't post to it, I don't know why you would fight for someone's right to be anti-woman (or anti-whatever) if you don't actually believe that. And where does it stop? I mean, you've never argued for breeders. Playing devil's advocate is one thing, but arguing positions you have no belief seems false at best. One would assume they would be able to fight that fight themselves, and if they don't feel the need to be on this board fighting for their position, is it really our loss? I don't think so.

If one is too afraid to put forth their own opinions and beliefs here, in my opinion they must not hold them very strongly, or be proud enough to state them in an anonymous electronic forum. I mean, what's the worst that would happen? Someone would chew them out and they'd have the chance to defend themselves...THE HORROR! If that prospect keeps someone from posting their true opinions, sounds like it's their problem and not ours.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

it can be hard to not speak out, more so when there is a more anti male topic, in society mens voices are quiet because we worry it will affect everything else. they are afraid to speak up for themselves, society is telling men they should be seen and no heard, i have been seen and been heard. and thats what i do.

its not so much arguing from the opposite side, i try to give a balanced arguement to stop the discrimination, from broad based comments, as for me not being for family, i do say my cousins kids they are wonderful, sarah their mother is one of the nicest people around, she changed her hubbie by being there. he was a bad lad.. but he has become very nice and a good friend now. If all parents were like sarah and paul then i would say great i support parents. but they arent. they are the exceptions.

imagine being afraid of stating what you beleive, and no one tells you that hey its ok to say this. unless someone takes a stand, to show that people do speak out, and so it may give them the feeling they arent alone. which cant be bad. knowing your not alone in how you think.

i did say not many, theres German chancellor Angela Merkel , Golda Meir fought for Israel’s survival in the Yom Kippur War, Condoleezza Rice, Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, Benazir Bhutto, Indira Gandhi, Helen Clark, Mary McAleese. but not that many that can be seen as doing it by themselves, gandhi, bhutto, all have a male precursor. but you never hear about people wanting to be like these women, or at least they are not saying it.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein