When is a look, A leer? When the parents want it to be

this story was found via drhelen.blogspot.com


Should "visual sexual aggression" be against the law?
Apparently, there are some politicians and police officers in Maine who think the answer is "yes" (thanks to Peregrine John for pointing this potential law out):

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080406/NEWS/804060343/-1/NEWS01

Those who peer at children in public could find themselves on the wrong side of the law in Maine soon.

A bill that passed the House last month aims to strengthen the crime of visual sexual aggression against children, according to state Rep. Dawn Hill, D-York.

Her involvement started when Ogunquit Police Lt. David Alexander was called to a local beach to deal with a man who appeared to be observing children entering the community bathrooms. Because the state statute prevents arrests for visual sexual aggression of a child in a public place, Alexander said he and his fellow officer could only ask the man to move along.

"There was no violation of law that we could enforce. There was nothing we could charge him with," Alexander said.

He attended a talk with Hill a week later and brought the case to her attention. Hill pledged to do what she could, Alexander said, and the result was a change through the Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee in the House, which made the law applicable in both private and public places....

Under the bill, if someone is arrested for viewing children in a public place, it would be a Class D felony if the child is between 12 to 14 years old and a Class C felony if the child is under 12, according to Alexander.

Hill said she believes the move was necessary to correct what she called a "loophole" in the state's criminal law statutes.


I have a lot of questions about such a law. What does peering actually mean? Does staring at a teen who looks 25 when one is at the beach count? Does staring at some kids like I did a few years ago because they looked like they were trying to get into some trouble count or am I excluded from the law because I am a woman? A Class C Felony is a serious charge, will people (mainly men, I assume) be put in jail for the simple act of staring? How do you know the person had the intent of "visual sexual aggression"? How does one determine if staring or peering is aggressive or not? One person's aggression is another's peaceful gaze. This law seems very vague and unfair. Does anyone in Maine care?

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Dawn Hill is a cunt of epic proportions and was probably molested as a child. She should be shot.

Just what we need. ANY excuse to give asshole parents any more reason to make problems for people.

scary isnt it. so if they know this law, and they see us looking at a badly behaved kid.. how do they know we arent using "visual sexual aggression", and not looking at them like they just crawled out from under a rock.. when the parents(or children) think we are.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Looking is not touching, and no amount of whining will make sane people believe otherwise. This does a disservice to all the people who have had to work VERY HARD for MANY YEARS to get the cops and courts to prosecute RAPE and MOLESTATION. Equating LOOKING with unwanted touching is completely wrong, and disrespectful of millions of actual abuse survivors. There was a group in my town a few years back trying to be able to equate verbal harassment with rape, and they were shot down pretty quickly by actual rape survivors.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> scary isnt it. so if they know this law, and they
> see us looking at a badly behaved kid.. how do
> they know we arent using "visual sexual
> aggression", and not looking at them like they
> just crawled out from under a rock.. when the
> parents(or children) think we are.

Well then I'd have to augment my stink eye with spitting or drink throwing.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

going deeper into it, the article made it out like that, it was more a form of stopping more pedophilic actions. but the article was confusing. dr helen has contacted the proposer to get the real information.

BUt i wouldnt be surprised if they tried to do it. it was a badly written story, (possibly)

from comment


As I read the bill, a person needs to expose his/her genitals in order to be guilty of a crime.

Here is the entire text of the bill:

Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:
Sec. 1. 17-A MRSA §256, sub-§1, ¶A, as amended by PL 2005, c. 655, §1, is further amended to read:

A. For the purpose of arousing or gratifying sexual desire or for the purpose of causing affront or alarm, the actor, having in fact attained 18 years of age , in a public or private place, exposes the actor's genitals to another person or causes the other person to expose that person's genitals to the actor and the other person, not the actor's spouse, has not in fact attained 14 years of age. Violation of this paragraph is a Class D crime;

Sec. 2. 17-A MRSA §256, sub-§1, ¶B, as amended by PL 2005, c. 655, §1, is further amended to read:

B. For the purpose of arousing or gratifying sexual desire, the actor, having in fact attained 18 years of age , in a public or private place, exposes the actor's genitals to another person or causes the other person to expose that person's genitals to the actor and the other person, not the actor's spouse, has not in fact attained 12 years of age. Violation of this paragraph is a Class C crime;


The only new language that the bill inserts is the "in a public or private place" wording, which you can see in the mark-up HTML version on the state legislature web site:

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerWeb/externalsiteframe.asp?ID=280027586&LD=2079&Type=1&SessionID=7

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Yeah, you dress bratleigh like a slut, and what do you expect?
Bratleigh wants to dress like a slut, you let her, and what do you expect?

I simply think people need to deal with jack-assholes that are just plain boors.

Dawn Hill should be ashamed of herself for such stupidity. And Lt. (yeah real tough guy, he must be real important) David Alexander should be fired for even bringing this to Hill's attention. You both are dumbasses!
Fuck both of you morons!!

Keep it up and we'll all be arrested for just BREATHING on their pwecious spawn.

Would someone tell me how it is that these children now have more rights than adults? For God's sake, they can't even VOTE! The liberal soccer moms (who are probably going to vote for Obama) need to take care of their own kids. It's not my fault that both mom and dad work, and don't pay attention (or simply don't care) to what their kids are doing. The politicians and police have more important things to do than babysit and play parent. It is now assumed in American society that the word of a child now takes precedence over that of an adult. It is no wonder then that adults today will not interact with children anymore (sometimes not even their OWN kids). Anyone with any common sense believes that EVERYONE needs to be protected by the law. But it should be equal justice under the law. Leave law abiding adults alone. Especially men. Just get off our back and keep our constitutional rights intact; if our lawmakers won't, then the courts eventually will.

FYI, McPain says he wants to double the child tax credit, which I believe brings it up to $7000, per sprog.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

its bribery, who are the most voters, women with children.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Ummm..most voters are elderly....

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

in the UK, its mothers. the elderly are voting less, men are voting less, If elderly were the most voters where are the laws that benefits them. of course a lot of these have grandkids.

http://www.essex.ac.uk/ECPR/events/jointsessions/paperarchive/turin/ws22/Campbell.pdf

British election study suggested that a higher proportion of women under 45 voted for the Labour party than men under 45. Analysis of the 2001 election revealed an interesting development, the gender generation gap, where more young women than young men voted Labour, had reversed in the under 25s.

However, this was accompanied by a considerable drop in turnout amongst young
women, under 35, in relation to men. There are several possible explanations for this drop in 2001, one reported by the Fawcett society was that women are more turned off, than men, by the media portrayal of politics as a spectator sport. The other is that the young women who voted for New Labour in the 1997 general election felt that their expectations hadn’t been met. An alternative is that the factors that caused the dramatic decline in turnout at the 2001 election had a particularly profound effect on young women.

The first suggests that young women will be more likely to vote for the Labour party because it might be assessed as the party that will best represent their hypothesised preference for spending on social services. The second leads to the prediction that women might be less likely to vote than men in the specific
context of the 2001 general election.

in 1997 nearly 10% more women under 25 voted than men. The strength of this relationship is undermined by the validated turnout statistics.


**** i only go off what happens in the UK.

and here

http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/Facts/Elections/Womensvote2004.html

and here

http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/Facts/genderdiff.pdf
in 2004 22.9 milion women voted aged 25-44, 24.9 million voted 45-64
men 19.9 million men, and 22.6 million, same ages

this is why theres so many Pro child laws being enacted.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dawn Hill is a cunt of epic proportions and was
> probably molested as a child. She should be
> shot.
>
> Just what we need. ANY excuse to give asshole
> parents any more reason to make problems for
> people.

You are my hero. I don't look at children AT ALL in public b/c sometimes they will take it as an invite to garner attention.

I DO however have a Basilisk stare I reserve for the truly bad ones.

rose, try being a man and looking the death glare. if its bad being a woman, try being a man.. as everyone "knows" all men are pedophiles and perverts..

It sounds bad but i wouldnt even lift my finger to save a childs life. because i know if i tried my life would be ruined, not that i would do anything. just because i am a male.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rose, try being a man and looking the death glare.
> if its bad being a woman, try being a man.. as
> everyone "knows" all men are pedophiles and
> perverts..
>
> It sounds bad but i wouldnt even lift my finger to
> save a childs life. because i know if i tried my
> life would be ruined, not that i would do
> anything. just because i am a male.

I do understand that men don't go anywhere near children because of the whole pervert thing but it's so bad now that even if I see one get hurt I don't go near it for fear I'll get blamed. I feel so badly that even men who are concerned fathers can't extend help to someone in distress, even though I detest most children....

i dont like kids, i wouldnt want them hurt.. dont get me wrong. but i couldnt help even if i wanted too..

yes, luckily i avoid most kids..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Same here, though, I do smile smugly to myself when I see a sprog doing something incredibly stupid and getting injured for doing it. Hoping, of course, it will have learned a lesson.


mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i dont like kids, i wouldnt want them hurt.. dont
> get me wrong. but i couldnt help even if i wanted
> too..
>
> yes, luckily i avoid most kids..

You know, parents get upset if strangers look at the kids, but also get upset if strangers DON'T pay special attention to their kids. I read an article in a parenting magazine when I was sitting in the dr's office recently - this woman wrote an entire article about how upset she is, because when she takes her toddlers out somewhere, people just walk by and ignore them. She said its evidence of a "child hating" society, because people don't run up to her kids and ooh and aah over them. Perhaps people don't do this because they are simply afraid of being accused of pedophilia. Its as simple as that.

Rose Red Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are my hero. I don't look at children AT ALL
> in public b/c sometimes they will take it as an
> invite to garner attention.
>
> I DO however have a Basilisk stare I reserve for
> the truly bad ones.

I sneer at children in public, if only to keep from screaming obscenities, I can't help myself.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me