He made me so mad

My husband is always talking about he lives life his way and others should to, and that nobody should ever apologize for how they choose to live their life. He also constantly talks abjout how he does not care what people think.
Well a co- worker of his invited us on a ride this weekend. They are older than us and have kids that are adults.
Well they ask if when we are having kids, my husabnd never said anything, he took the political way out by answering without really answering.
I chimed in and said, we are not planning on having children. They asked why, I said that we discussed it and feel that kids are not the life path we want to take.
They looked as if I just announced something totally appalling.
I was so mad at him, he can't have the balls to just say it, because he actually does care what people think.
I discussed it with him and , he did admit that he was a hypocrite and should step up and be honest about our life choices.
It was as if he was ashamed and was not even aware of it.
I had better never hear him preach at me, about living life my way, I am not the one who was spineless and could not be honest about wanting to be child free.

Maybe he didn't want to get the third degree at work, so he stayed quiet?

Regardless, one should never be ashamed of their lifetyle choices, no matter what those choices are. By being afraid to say anything, that is giving the hint that you think/know your choice is bad. I understand the anxiety that may come along with admitting to certain choices that are looked down on, but the more ashamed anyone is in general about their choices in life, the more people will demonize anything that isn't the traditional American famblee with 2.3 kids and a white-picket fence, while Wifey does houework in heels and pearls.

Your DH needs a slap with a clue-by-four. And yes, he is being a hypocrite.

Maybe he didn't want to get the third degree at work, so he stayed quiet?

Regardless, one should never be ashamed of their lifetyle choices, no matter what those choices are. By being afraid to say anything, that is giving the hint that you think/know your choice is bad. I understand the anxiety that may come along with admitting to certain choices that are looked down on, but the more ashamed anyone is in general about their choices in life, the more people will demonize anything that isn't the traditional American famblee with 2.3 kids and a white-picket fence, while Wifey does houework in heels and pearls.

Your DH needs a slap with a clue-by-four. And yes, he is being a hypocrite.


I really don't think they would have given him the third degree,especially since he is the boss. The people asking were people who work under him.
I was just upset that he couldn't be honest about it.
I will never hide my choice to be child free, I will tell anyone with pride that I am child free.
I am proud of my choice and at ease with it.
I sure hope he isn't going through that wanting a baby stage, because we are going to have so issues if he is.

Hi Annie,

Be proud for standing up for what you believe in. Personally for me, I avoid getting into debates with stubborned-ass people. You know the type I mean, no matter how much you reason and state that having kids is a choice, not a requirement, they can't see past their own narcissistic, "my way is the only way" thinking without passing some type of fucked up judgment.

I hope your husband was thinking along those lines and not secretly wanting a kid.

My take is that a lot of things people ask are really none of their business, and I don't owe anyone answers just for their own personal entertainment purposes. Depending on the company I'm in, I'm not always highly vocal about my choice to breed, not because I'm ashamed of that choice (I'm actually very proud of it), but selfishly, because I know that I can suffer discrimination down the line, and I don't want to give others that power. I mean, some people can become offended, like your lifestyle choice was determined strictly to make them feel bad. Sometimes it's better just to be discreet, because in the long run, you're simply in a better power position that way. Of course there are times when it's best to make sure people know you don't want to breed (like if they continually pelt you with assumptions that one day you will, and it starts to get tiring for you.) But each case deserves its own consideration. I wasn't there, but I don't know that I would have reacted the same way you did to what your husband did.

oops! I mean my choice NOT to breed. Haha.

Not to belittle your umbrage with your husband, but I can't help thinking that when it comes to the question of breeding, men are not under as much pressure to come up with an explanation as to why they don't want kids. It's almost as though there's this unspoken axiom "I'm a guy. I can barely take care of myself", so if he sounds like he's leaning toward no kids, people are less likely to press (I'm sure the men reading this will chime in to correct me on this, but this has been my observation).

What do you think would have happened if you hadn't chimed in when you did? I'll bet you ANYTHING both sets of eyes would have landed squarely on you to come up with an explanation. Good GODDESS. A woman who doesn't want to be a breeding vessel...

I think, and i stress to say *I* think this. That men would never talk about that subject, because it doesnt affect them. Men never ask other men do you want kids, or not often. Perhaps, his workplace is a breederific place, we have all worked there, And if they knew he was cf, or leaning towards it, it would affect the work place dynamic.

Sometimes the best thing to do is say nothing. Its not my way.. but i understand it.

Men have been programmed, by society that women have all the rights. so we go along with them mostly. Annie you never said what sex was the co worker, male or female, or a couple. It seems to *ME* that women are the ones more concerned with breeding rights, than men. (there are exceptions but i dont count those).

i personally would have shouted from the rooftops my reasons, its my way,

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

It was a man who asked and then the women chimed in.

Two issues:

1. They looked as if I just announced something totally appalling. These people are idiots. I hate people like this. Deciding to live without children is not a character defect. It's called making choices. Not having kyds is a perfectly acceptable choice.

2. I don't think things sound all that bleak with respect to your husband. It sounds like he : 1. listened to you; 2. examined his actions and 3. saw incongruity between what his thoughts and actions. He admitted your observations were correct.

I'm going to step over the line and give you assvice, but if you are nursing a grudge over JUST THIS ONE INCIDENT, that sounds a little bit irrational to me. I don't know what else your husband could have done.

However, your lingering anger may be from other examples, like you don't believe he has your back with respect to this decision or you believe he's waivering. I can certainly understand that.

In my own life, my response varies and much of the time it's based on the rudeness of the questions.

I personally believe asking a casual acquaintence or an office mate if they have kids as part of conversation is okay. (The purpose of conversation is to find common ground.) Asking someone if they would like to have kids someday is borderline, IMO. I definitely think it's rude to ask someone WHY they don't have kids or WHEN they are having kids. To me, it's akin to asking about someone's sex life and it's none of their goddamn business.

I've had the conversation with people whom I consider to be friends, but I'd never have that conversation with casual acquaintences or professional acquaintences.

I know when it comes to work, I usually don't volunteer personal information about myself. It doesn't mean I'm not CF. I'm hardcore CF; articulated when I was 9 and I've been sterilized.

But at work I usually say I don't have kids and leave it at that. Why? I don't owe these people an explanation and I don't want to go through the mental effort. It's none of their business anyway.

You guys aren't going to believe this story that I've wanted to tell. I've been in a new position for a couple of months. One of my co-workers used to work in the same dept as my husband. I guess, because I don't talk about kids, she said this to me the other day.

Moo: "I guess your kids are grown?"

Bell: "No, Mr. Bell and I are newlyweds. We don't have children."

Moo: "How is it possible that you don't have kids?"

I shit you not, that's what she said.

I said, as if I were explaining something to a slow chyyyyld:

Bell: "I was divorced, no kids and Mr. Bell was NMNK."

And then I smiled and changed the subject.

Let 'em wonder. And let them see that I am not at all rattled nor am I letting them into my business. I'd rather they see me as cool, calm and collected.

So there's my story and that's why I don't entertain nosy questions. Ann, I wanted to present this because I am definitely secure in my decision, but that's not the reason I don't tell.

However, I would say that if I were meeting people in a social situation, as your husband was, I would probably have been a little more forthcoming. But maybe he knew those people could be klutzes about it. (But why go out with people if you think they are going to be close-minded assholes?)

This topic has gray areas.

Asking an aquaintance "WHY" they don't want children is like asking an aquaintance WHY he/she got a divorce. It's a pretty fucking rude.

That is so true, MP. Maybe I'll use this line on someone who's divorced when I get this question, to be a real bitch. heh heh

Bellflower wrote:
**Let 'em wonder. And let them see that I am not at all rattled nor am I letting them into my business. I'd rather they see me as cool, calm and collected.

So there's my story and that's why I don't entertain nosy questions. Ann, I wanted to present this because I am definitely secure in my decision, but that's not the reason I don't tell.

However, I would say that if I were meeting people in a social situation, as your husband was, I would probably have been a little more forthcoming. But maybe he knew those people could be klutzes about it. (But why go out with people if you think they are going to be close-minded assholes?)

This topic has gray areas.**

I operate like Bell here. Around co-workers, I don't volunteer any information and do not entertain nosiness. This IS a grey area, but maybe your husband just didn't want to deal with their butting in and decided to take a more diplomatic approach.

guest Wrote:
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> My take is that a lot of things people ask are
> really none of their business, and I don't owe
> anyone answers just for their own personal
> entertainment purposes. Depending on the company
> I'm in, I'm not always highly vocal about my
> choice to breed, not because I'm ashamed of that
> choice (I'm actually very proud of it), but
> selfishly, because I know that I can suffer
> discrimination down the line, and I don't want to
> give others that power. I mean, some people can
> become offended, like your lifestyle choice was
> determined strictly to make them feel bad.
> Sometimes it's better just to be discreet, because
> in the long run, you're simply in a better power
> position that way. Of course there are times when
> it's best to make sure people know you don't want
> to breed (like if they continually pelt you with
> assumptions that one day you will, and it starts
> to get tiring for you.) But each case deserves its
> own consideration. I wasn't there, but I don't
> know that I would have reacted the same way you
> did to what your husband did.

My husband read me the riot act for reacting badly at a post-baptism party to the new dad asking me when I was going to have kids. Why do people think it's their business? Now he's mad at me for saying never. He knew how I felt about this when he proposed. Now I feel the marriage is in jeopardy if I don't cough up some maternal instinct. I'm 40! I'm supposed to have a mongoloid?

Rose Red, I am so sorry. Shame on your husband. You were up front with him from the beginning. It sounds like he was not so honest. Maybe he thought you'd "change your mind" or from your post it appears that your hubby had a change of heart. I have seen this: Everything's great, then your spouse's siblings and/or friends starts sprogging then the spouse gets all pissed off at the other because now they wants kyyds. RR, I doubt seriously you "acted badly" at all. You simply answered a very personal question honestly.
I wish I could give you a hug IRL.

Asking someone when they plan to sprog is rude. Rose Red, perhaps you could ask the new dad, "So, was the baby planned or an accident? Did your birth control fail?" Maybe that will get the message across.

At risk of sounding a little like Amethusos , I'll say your husband probably only thinks he wants kyds anyway. In the abstract, sprogging looks so cool to so many who don't really have a clue, or who just want to be able to brag that their organs work. And you'll be faced with pregnancy and the grunt work of raising the chyld should you give in. Don't give in.

k-man, you are so right. But Amethusos would have said "cunt work" not "grunt work"

k-man Wrote:
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> Asking someone when they plan to sprog is rude.
> Rose Red, perhaps you could ask the new dad, "So,
> was the baby planned or an accident? Did your
> birth control fail?" Maybe that will get the
> message across.

Yeah. I think at least 80 % of sprogs are "accidents", these days. Maybe more.

I can understand keeping quiet about being CF at work, though. First thing you know, you're a pariah and they're mobbing you.

Thank you so much. I am estatic to have found this place. It's not just me. I love you all already.

Oh, no, they had trouble conceiving. They spent three years and 10s of thousands to get her knocked up. I slipped this weekend and pointed out that maybe she isn't supposed to breed. Somebody get me some duct tape.

Sounds like a big ole trainwreck. I'm guessing the drama ain't over with these folks, RR.

Nour Wrote:
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> Sounds like a big ole trainwreck. I'm guessing the
> drama ain't over with these folks, RR.

terrible me is happy is cost them a fortune but really, if she's healthy and it took that long, maybe there is some sort of divine reason? THE BAYBEE LOOKS LIKE WOLFMAN JACK.

Welcome aboard, Rose. We are glad to have you here.

Is your husband upset because you mentioned personal matters (although you were the one who was asked, not vice versa) or is he upset because you don't want kids?

It sounds like your husband needs a big smack with the clue bat. There is nothing worse, IMHO, than an over-40 man with baby rabies especially because: 1. it's not his body being ruined; 2. most duds stay around for the Kodak moments and phone in the rest.

People here know my story. Here it is in a nutshell: I was married in my middle 30's and had a tubal ligation before that. As I approached 40, my stupid husband, who was 3 years older started whining that he "felt so empty" etc. He told me he wanted a keed. His timing was really bad too....I was taking care of two terminally ill relatives.

Turned out, not only did he want a kid, he was cheating with a married woman who had fertility problems. He and she were having some kind of 'let's leave our uncaring spouses and have a baybee" fantasy.

He lied to me until the bitter end and when I discovered his affair, I kicked his ass to the curb and moved on. It was really rough because it was my second marriage, but there are worse things than being divorced twice/ Being married to a lying, cheating WannaBreed is but one of those things.

When I was in limbo, where he was whining about baybees but wouldn't tell me what was really going on, those were by far the hardest three months of my life. (He was really sneaky with his affair. I hired a detective and it still took 3 months to bust his ass.)

You didn't ask, but my recommendation is to cut your losses. When I got my own place the sense of relief was wonderful. No more tiptoeing around his moods, etc. No more whining. I firmly believe the kid issue is something you can't compromise on. Better to go your separate ways.

Your husband sounds like a selfish turd. Anyone who wants their partner to crank out a kid they don't want has serious problems.

As a postscript to my story, I found a wonderful NMNK man who dotes on me. My ex did not marry his whore, mostly because her husband found out about the affair and she went back to him.

Last I heard, even 3-4 years after we split up, my ex was whining to anyone who would listen that he didn't know why I left. He actually burst into tears in a public place when he was talking to one woman. Interestingly, when I went for a high clearance at work, and when a Government agent interviewed him, he did not lie this badly. He just told the investigator that we "fell out of love" and that I "didn't do anything wrong." The words of a guilty man, for sure.

Although I was hurt at the time, the dude did me a favor. I didn't have to listen to his whining, wishy-washy Wanna Breed ass. And let me tell you, his desire to have a kid was totally irrational. He would have been a disaster as a father: he had poor impulse/emotional control, and he was a drama queen, high maintenance kind of person.

And as far as your friends go, they probably have a shitty marriage and need a chyyyyld as a distraction. It seems like the couples who are the most desperate to have a baybee and endure all these medical procedures have the shittiest marriages. At least, that's been my experience IRL. The wives, particularly, are insecure. They know that a kid is the best way to hook into a man's wallet, or they just want a socially acceptable reason to drop out of the work force and suck off some mayn.

Rose Red, I agree with Bell_flower's advice to you—and I'm not one to advocate divorce lightly. Your husband is likely to give you more and more grief about sprogging, and this situation with the family members who want you to take vacation to see the baby, etc., is just the beginning. If you aren't already, you probably soon will be miserable with him. Life's too short.

Rose Red Wrote:
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>
> My husband read me the riot act for reacting badly
> at a post-baptism party to the new dad asking me
> when I was going to have kids. Why do people
> think it's their business? Now he's mad at me for
> saying never. He knew how I felt about this when
> he proposed. Now I feel the marriage is in
> jeopardy if I don't cough up some maternal
> instinct. I'm 40! I'm supposed to have a
> mongoloid?


Stand your ground Rose Red. You got all the winning cards. He cannot force you to sprog. Men do not birth kids. Their bodies will not suffer from it. They should not pressure a woman into it. Same goes for women - they should not pressure a men into fatherhood. It's a sad ending in a majority of cases.

Your hubby is probably lost. In some cases, parents ask themselves what would it be like to be CF. Some CF, sometimes, could ask the opposite. Usually CF will walk away vomiting, parents walk away with tons of regrets. Let him brew, most men I know will choose CF over breeding any day. Most fathers that I know are there against their wishes. They are only there because that was what it took for them to be with a woman. If they could be with a woman and stay CF, that girl can pretty much name her own price, and price has very high limits. Demand is high, the supply is low. He has a CF wife, that is very rare in today's market. The sooner your hubby catches on, the quicker he will be kissing your feet and the ground you walk on. If he messes up, he will be sorry. You will have the last laugh if he leaves and choses to breed. You will not be sorry, he will be.