Pay people to have babies

Should We Pay People (More) To Reproduce?
In his interesting post, Doug Kmiec argues that the U.S. government should adopt French child-subsidy policies in order to encourage Americans to have more children. But unless within-family reproduction is good in itself—more on this in a moment—there is no reason to ape the French, whose motives are, as Kmiec notes, entirely based on demographic fears that do not exist in the United States. Thanks to immigration and the fecundity of recent arrivals, the U.S. population is already growing; why would we want it to grow more rapidly?

Doug thinks that we should use the tax system to compel ourselves to pay otherwise-unwilling others to produce offspring who will grow up and finance our retirement. Wouldn't it be easier if we just saved our own money for retirement or, if that is too hard, increase current Social Security taxes and future payouts? Why this complicated business of bringing into existence an entire generation of workers to serve as a vehicle for transferring our money from our current selves to our future selves?

To be sure, it's possible that we would all benefit if the American population grew. Whether we would is a very tricky question that I won't try to answer, but if so, a better way of populating the land is to admit migrants instead of creating otherwise-unwanted persons by subsidizing childbirth. Paying people to have more babies doesn't seem reasonable when there are so many millions clamoring to get in.

I can't help thinking that Doug's idea that being pro-family means being pro-reproduction reflects an instinctive effort to shore up a social conservative philosophy under assault by our rapidly changing mores. Suppose Americans come to approve of gay marriage and to treat it the same as heterosexual marriage. What becomes of "family values," once such a politically potent slogan? Republican Party strategists must be scratching their heads. If family values can no longer be against homosexuality, what are they against? Single people? Premarital sex? Here's a prediction: The family values debate of the future will pit gays and straights who think everyone should get married and have children against gays and straights who think that marriage is a stodgy bourgeois construct designed to channel the revolutionary energy of sexuality into diaper changing and carpool planning while the planet chokes on the greenhouse-gas emissions of the multiplying hordes.

I hate these breeder-pandering politicians and their piss-poor attempts at social engineering via the tax system.

Why doesn't that asshole move to a country where the taxes are a bazillion percent and breeding is subsidized? Get him the fuck out of the US!

Most population growth seems to come from people other than Caucasions. This gets racist but who is having the kiddies, how many of them do so at other peoples' expense, etc... I don't have figures on this..
However, I do understand that the black illegitimacy rate in washington d.c. is @ 84% (if I remember correctly). How many of these illegitimates end up with a mom on welfare permanently or semi-permanent, I have no idea.
The stats are in: a child born to an intact traditional family stands a better chance in life than one born to a single moo (or duh), no matter what the financial standing. Perhaps those born to rich singles might do somewhat better, but a balance is needed.

I think birth control should be put in every human consumption water supply in the world. This planet needs a break for a while.

I think the word 'racist' is way over-used.

Having said that, your statement is far from racist and, I believe, has merit. You can't argue stats. I may do some research if I have time to get the facts straight, but this is the reason I started that thread yesterday here regarding how many black CF'ers there were out there. I know in the county I grew up in the SE , there was an approximate 70/30 white to black ratio with of course some other nationalities tossed in there. It is now 20/80 with around 10-15% of that low number consisting of Asians, then Mexicans. All in 20 years! Those are the only numbers I can say are quite accurate and all I have to go on. But they speak volumes. The school system is now amongst the worst in the nation, there is public transportation now, houses are boarded up everywhere and the crime rate is shameful. It was a once reasonably diverse and safe, clean and respectable place to grow up. It's a shit hole now and I wouldn't raise a parakeet there!

I get called racist sometimes when i go on rants about the mexcian anchor babies, they breed like roaches, and the ghetto babies being born to 13 yr old girls, and making grandmothers out of 28 yr olds. The facts speak for themselves.

i get the racist, you should breed because your white..

the worlds population isnt going to decrease not till at least 2050, when it wil be roughly 9 or 15 billion.. st helens, my home town.. its 97% white and christian.

i live near france.. about 350 miles really.. and their economy is in danger.. they are paying for these breedings, so are the germans, their economy is crashing..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Nokids, when I was a medic in Atlantic City, in the brief four years I worked there, I delivered 3 babies born of 13 year olds, 2 babies of 15 year olds, 1 of a 19 year old and 1 of a 20 year old - all black - all unmarried. I know that's just a drop in the bucket and doesn't reflect true stat's, but you can't dismiss it!

married with rabbits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, to two cents and str8six. Str8six, I knew
> that's exactly part of the reason you did start
> that other thread. I knew what you were getting at
> and I think it's totally valid.
>
> Facts do speak for themselves.

I was hoping this would be the general consensus and I'm truly glad it wasn't taken out of context.

but str8 how many were born to whites of the same ages.. thats the question you have to ask yourself.. compare the 2..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Merc: That's why I put sort of a disclaimer in my statement: "I know that's just a drop in the bucket and doesn't reflect true stat's"...

My point was that in four years, I did not treat or deliver one single white pregnant female. Believe me, I KNOW there are HOARDS of white trash out there, I see it everyday in my line of work! But - and please, please no one take this the wrong way - most pregnancies I work are black. I'm sorry, those are just my experiences as a public safety servant.

I am of German and Spaniard heritage, so I've NO reason what-so-ever to 'defend' whites. I'm speaking strictly from personal experience and factual stats as they relate to the county and state which I'm from. I really would like to do some research on this and get much better facts. But alas, as I am child-free, I just may take my sports car out for a top-down drive this evening and watch the sun go down over the lake instead!

i was just wanting to put that while there maybe more statistically, within a comparable socio economic grouping.. you have to look beyond the figures.. at the overall thing..

i agreei just wanted to add, the other bit.. are the rates less.. if taken into account with the whole grouping of young mothers.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I see young teen mothers all the time and I always think to myself................... Where were their mothers and fathers and why the fuck didnt they do the smart thing and get that kid an abortion, or do they feel like it is sort of a pay back, thinking they were slaves to their kids and now its their turn to be a slave to thier own kids? I just dont get it. wouldnt a decent parent do everything in their power to NOT let thier 13 yr old daughter birth a baby and ruin her life?

I have lived in 3 major city hubs in the US and one in South America and Puerto Rico (I'm an Army brat). The 3 major cities were all in my adulthood in the same career I pursue now. In all of those cities, blacks always had the highest number of pregnancies and still do.

Taking into consideration that the larger cities have the highest concentration of people, it is *reasonable* to assume that is where you're going to find a good idea of where you stand regarding young mothers. I know what you're saying though, and I'm curious enough to now start searching for some answers...be back later with what I find...

I'm guessing more poor people in general have more children than richer people. From what I know, cities have higher concentrations of black/hispanic folks in general. In rural/suburban areas the rates of white poverty are pretty similar to those of urban black/hispanic poverty.

Do you see it as a problem that hispanic/black folks are having children at higher rates than whites? If it is a problem, what is the proposed solution?

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

i dont think there is a solution, one version was in nazi germany, the lebensborn camps.. the "right" people would get the best of all treatments, everyone else got the 2nd best..

if you just throw money at one group, you get people calling you racist..,

so i dont think there is a solution, unless you have a socialised health care, but even thats open to abuse..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn

Lebensborn (Fount of Life, in German) was a Nazi organization set up by SS leader Heinrich Himmler, which provided maternity homes and financial assistance to the wives of SS members and to unmarried mothers, and which also ran orphanages and relocation programmes for children. Initially set up in Germany in 1935, Lebensborn expanded into occupied countries in western and northern Europe during the Second World War. In line with the racial and eugenic policies of Nazi Germany, the Lebensborn programme was restricted to individuals who were deemed to be "biologically fit" and "racially pure" "Aryans", and to SS members. In occupied countries, thousands of women facing social ostracism because they were in relationships with German soldiers and had become pregnant, had few alternatives other than applying for help with Lebensborn.

After World War II it was falsely reported that Lebenborn was a breeding programme. This was not true because individuals were not forced to have sex with selected partners.[1] However, the programme did aim to promote the growth of "superior" Aryan populations through providing excellent health care and by restricting access to the programme with medical selections that applied eugenic and "race" criteria

so this would be a horrendous example.. i just dont know the solution.. and i dont think anyone else does.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

nokyds4me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see young teen mothers all the time and I always
> think to myself................... Where were
> their mothers and fathers and why the fuck didnt
> they do the smart thing and get that kid an
> abortion, or do they feel like it is sort of a
> pay back, thinking they were slaves to their kids
> and now its their turn to be a slave to thier own
> kids? I just dont get it. wouldnt a decent parent
> do everything in their power to NOT let thier 13
> yr old daughter birth a baby and ruin her life?

nokyds4me, the young teen moos you described carry on their famooly tradition and are the next crop of benefit takers. In their world, becoming a bastard factory early in life is better than growing up and becoming a working person. The teen moos and their moos (who are grandmoos and most likely in their late 20s/early 30s) have no idea where the babydaddies are.

Yes, we certainly do pay people to have babies and it pisses me off to no end!

Keep working more hours, CF people! Millions of breeders depend on us.

The Lebensborn e. V. (eingetragener Verein, "registered association") was founded on December 12, 1935, in part as a response to declining birth rates in Germany, in order to promote the policies of Nazi eugenics. Located in Munich, the organisation was partly an office within the Schutzstaffel (SS) and responsible for certain family welfare programmes, and partly a society for Nazi leaders. The purpose of the programme was to provide incentives to encourage Germans, especially SS members, to have more children.

On September 13, 1936, Himmler wrote the following to members of SS[2]:

The organization "Lebensborn e. V." serves the SS leaders in the selection and adoption of qualified children. The organisation "Lebensborn e. V." is under my personal direction, is part of the race and settlement central bureau of the SS, and has the following obligations:

(1) aid for racially and biologically-hereditarily valuable families
(2) the accommodation of racially and biologically-hereditarily valuable mothers in appropriate homes, etc.
(3) care of the children of such families
(4) care of the mothers
It is the honourable duty of all leaders of the central bureau to become members of the organisation "Lebensborn e. V.". The application for admission must be filed prior to 23/9/1936.

Initially the programme served as a welfare institution for wives of SS officers; the organisation ran facilities, primarily maternity homes, where women could give birth or get help with family matters. Furthermore, the programme accepted unmarried women who were either pregnant or had already given birth and were in need of aid, provided that both the woman and the father of the child were racially valuable. Later such facilities also served as temporary homes, orphanages and as an adoption service. When dealing with non-SS members, parents and children were usually examined by SS doctors before admittance.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

"bastard factory" LOL i love the terms you guys and gals come up with!!! lol

Why cant we just STOP welfare after a 2 month limit and only for 1 babyyeee,

I know I am simplying the solution but god dam, im so sick of people crapping out kids that they CANT afford.

but then they would say the poor are being penalised, while the rich have more babies.. and its creating an underclass..

as i said i dont think there is a solution,

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I dont have a problem with poor people not being able to have kids, SO WHAT!

its simple........ cant afford kids.. DONT HAVE THEM,

In Australia we pay people to have children in the way of a $5000
baby bonus and to people on welfare that is the most money they have ever seen.
we like to call it the plasma tv bonus because it is rarely spent on the baby.The government will be paying it in installments to people on welfare. i looked a forum once that had mothers discussing what they were going to spend there baby bonus on i remember one woman saying that she was going to buy a cheap car so she didnt have get up in the morning and drive her husband to work

yes i was just saying what they would say..

not that i agreed with it..i have dealt with people who say this crap..

they want equality, but in a way that benefits them more..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I had the privilege of seeing Chris Gardner in person last year. (He was the black man upon which the movie, "The Pursuit of Happyness" is based, starring Will Smith.) His life was rougher that what was shown in the movie, btw. He said that 70 percent of black children in the U.S. don't have daddies--meaning the duhs are not in the picture. So two cents saying that the illegitmacy is 84 percent in D.C. sounds right.