Pahrunts on the Board

I can't speak for anyone else, but I, as well as others I know do get pissy when a breeder lands over here, maybe acting like a "parent" to start with, and then starts to BINGO with shit like "but my chyyuuullllddd doesn't do that" and "ima good pahrunt" etc.

I can't speak for anyone else, but basically, I feel that there is only ONE REASON a parent should be here:

That ONE REASON is if you are here to encourage your children and family to remain childfree, that you recognize the error of bringing children into an extremely overpopulated world and want to support the childfree lifestlye. And no BINGOS, no "buuuuttt my chyyuuldrunn are better" or any of that.

If you need help talking your son or daughter into sterilization, we can help with that and not speaking for anyone else here, but I personally will take time out of my day to prevent more breeding if I can.

If you need help bringing your kids up into the childfree lifestyle, some of us could probably help with tips and so on for that too.

Parents who come here need to realize that the childfree have NO VOICE anywhere else, we pay all the taxes while you get the tax breaks, we have to work longer hours on the job so you can take snotley to soccer practice and so on. We face constant harassment and discrimination, so don't be surprised when you get to be the whipping post when you show up here.

Remember, out in the real world, we are the second class citizens, but here on bratfree, YOU are the second class citizen.

If you can play by those rules, I can be decent with you. But I can't speak for anyone else.

I'm comfortable with those rules. I came here, mostly, to vent about shitty breeders and the state of "parenting" today. There's nowhere else I can do that, really, but I totally understand if my presence is unwelcome -- and I'll stop posting if you'd like.

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to say this:

The reason I started posting was that I agreed with almost everything you guys discuss here. After reading silently for several months and coming to agree with you guys more and more, I re-checked the rules and they said I could post (within specific parameters). I hope I didn't cross a line by doing so, but if I did, I'm more than willing to go back to quiet reading. I did try to email the siterunner, but my email was returned three or four times because her(?) email was too full, so I used the best judgement I could when I posted. I am very sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable or angry.

Sara, I personally do not have a problem with parents that want to raise childfree kids and get advice on encouraging sterilization in their family.

Speaking of which, are YOU sterilized yet so that you do not bring more kids into the world?

This is a very important point. The majority of us here, from what I have seen in the postings are hardasses to the max when it comes to overpopulation and you'll get no break here if you are not on the same page.

People are going to flame you here just for being a parent, and there are many childfrees out there who do not believe there is anything but breeders, parents do not and cannot exist in a massively overpopulated world.

I'm as hardcore as they come, but I want to see more childfree people in the world which is why I will tolerate parents who are trying to raise childfree kids. No you can't make that decision for your kids but you can start young with them and teach them about overpopulation, and that although mawm might love them to death, she understands that childbearing is a MISTAKE in this world and doesn't want them to make the same MISTAKES.

On other message boards where I have seen pahrunts allowed to dialog with the childfree it always devolves into the pahrunts getting cut slack and even the childfrees back to being second class citizens. (Ivillage anyone? lol)

No, I'm not sterilized. I'm fairly young, and there are no doctors in my area (or the 200 surrounding miles) who will perform a tubal ligation or uterine removal on me until I'm older. I am, however, vigilant about birth control -- I have an IUD in place and I take birth control pills. I understand these methods aren't failsafe, and if I were to become pregnant I would terminate the pregnancy. Another child isn't in the cards for my family, and I take responsibility for ensuring that it stays that way.

I am, however, planning to teach my child about the dangers of overpopulation, treating our planet well, living within your means and the planet's means, and all of the benefits of being childfree. I won't have control over what he actually chooses in another 20 or 30 years, of course, but I can do my absolute best to provide him with real information about what having kids truly means -- both for the planet and for him personally.

nowhiggers Wrote:
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> Parents who come here need to realize that the
> childfree have NO VOICE anywhere else, we pay all
> the taxes while you get the tax breaks, we have to
> work longer hours on the job so you can take
> snotley to soccer practice and so on. We face
> constant harassment and discrimination, so don't
> be surprised when you get to be the whipping post
> when you show up here.
>
> Remember, out in the real world, we are the second
> class citizens, but here on bratfree, YOU are the
> second class citizen.
>
> If you can play by those rules, I can be decent
> with you. But I can't speak for anyone else.

A-men to that 'nowhiggers'.

Sara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm comfortable with those rules. I came here,
> mostly, to vent about shitty breeders and the
> state of "parenting" today. There's nowhere else
> I can do that, really, but I totally understand if
> my presence is unwelcome -- and I'll stop posting
> if you'd like.

The rules do not state that parents cannot post. In fact, they do not even state that anyone has to or is obligated to disclose their status. What you do in your life is your business. I would have to say that if you are posting here to get a parenting support, you are probably in a wrong place. Many of us here are caring people but would certainly make shitty parents and therefore opted out of ruining someone else's life.

I can see a reason to why a parent would want to read or join this board. I have relatives that have kids and they are very sorry they did. I will never tell them about this board because the last thing I want is for them to become a horrible parent. It is the last thing I want for anyone.

I personally can welcome an opinion from a parent but I will not agree with a parent that a childed life is the only life a person can live. I am about options and options are currently being suppressed by media, high schools, colleges, parents, government, breeders, law enforcement, courts, employers and legal consultants.

Child-Free is a choice for some but it is a way of life for others. We have the least support and representation in the world. If we can have support from parents - feel free to state your case, but again, I cannot agree that childed life is the only way to live.

Sara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to say
> this:
>
> The reason I started posting was that I agreed
> with almost everything you guys discuss here.
> After reading silently for several months and
> coming to agree with you guys more and more, I
> re-checked the rules and they said I could post
> (within specific parameters). I hope I didn't
> cross a line by doing so, but if I did, I'm more
> than willing to go back to quiet reading. I did
> try to email the siterunner, but my email was
> returned three or four times because her(?) email
> was too full, so I used the best judgement I could
> when I posted. I am very sorry if I made anyone
> uncomfortable or angry.

Ok, this is from the "Rules" section of this board:

Q I'm a parent. May I post here?

A Yes and no. Because there are so few childfree sites, I want to make sure that this is another place for support and discussion for the CF. If you're going to bingo us, troll/flame, or tell us what a good parent you are, no you may not. If you post here without mentioning your parental status, noone will know you're a parent, will they?

As the rules states, you are not required to disclose your lifestyle. If you are here to support our lifestyle, feel free and welcomed. There are certain CF people who's spouse may have had kids and they post here, no one gives them crap. Some will get upset if you have your own kid mainly if you challenge their Child-Free lifestyle. So, if you want to rant about breeders and support us, there is no rule breaking. And hey, every now and then, it's good to hear how much parenting sucks. My relatives remind me often and I appreciate that!

If we can have support from parents - feel free to state your case, but again, I cannot agree that childed life is the only way to live.

I definitely do not think that a childed life is the only way to live, or even the best way to live. I'm not here for parenting support; I'm here because I agree with almost everything you guys say -- on topics like welfare, parents who feel entitled to be treated like royalty just because they dropped a kid, lazy moms who don't have the self-discipline to sack up and take care of their kids, slutty moms and the "NASTY MOO culture," shitty behavior in almost every kid out there that's excused away by parents with "but he's autiiiistic" or "but he has ADD" instead of using discipline, etc. This is just the only place I've found where this stuff is discussed realistically, but at the same time... I understand that this is not my place, you know?

If you are here to support our lifestyle, feel free and welcomed.

Thank you. That is exactly what I'm here for, along with some ranting of my own about the things I listed above. I think I did cross the line by mentioning my childed status in another post, but I thought it was relevant to the topic -- the topic was parents who whine about being "so tired" all the time because they waste energy and time catering to their kids' every whim instead of sacking up and instilling some boundaries and discipline; I posted that it's entirely unnecessary to cater to kids that way, and used my own situation as an example. I definitely won't do that again!

Techie Wrote:

> I can see a reason to why a parent would want to
> read or join this board. I have relatives that
> have kids and they are very sorry they did. I
> will never tell them about this board because the
> last thing I want is for them to become a horrible
> parent. It is the last thing I want for anyone.
>

That is a very good point, and yes, a person that chose to breed, and now regretting it, coming to a childfree board is not going to keep a balanced view with their own kids, and the kids are always the ones to suffer when a breeder realizes that he/she was never ment to breed after the fact.

I have seen this before on other cf boards, not a lot, mostly breeders troll, but then you have that occasional one that admits to absolutely regretting the whole fucking thing, and that we were right. lol

That is not good for the kids. And if you are a real parent, and not a breeder anyhow, you know that you and your life are now secondary to the kids, accept it and revel in it joyfully, and if you don't know that, then you really are a breeder.

Also, I would add, parents should not come to a cf board expecting accolades for their parenting skills. We don't care to know about parenting (at least myself, that is) unless it's parents activities in regards to 1. getting sterilized 2. perm birth control 3. advice on how to present the ideal lifestyle, that would be the CHILDFREE lifestyle, to kids and teach them that childfree people are the true environmentalists. 4. To agree with the childfree that its wrong for you to get all the tax breaks and special treatment like welfare should you fall into a hard spot in life (the childfree are left to die in a ditch if they can't afford medical care, basically), and that we all get equal treatment, esp if we are paying the taxes for all this stuff, we should also get access to it or no one should get access to it.

Sara Wrote:

>
> I definitely do not think that a childed life is
> the only way to live, or even the best way to
> live. I'm not here for parenting support; I'm
> here because I agree with almost everything you
> guys say -- on topics like welfare, parents who
> feel entitled to be treated like royalty just
> because they dropped a kid, lazy moms who don't
> have the self-discipline to sack up and take care
> of their kids, slutty moms and the "NASTY MOO culture,"
> shitty behavior in almost every kid out there
> that's excused away by parents with "but he's
> autiiiistic" or "but he has ADD" instead of using
> discipline, etc. This is just the only place I've
> found where this stuff is discussed realistically,
> but at the same time... I understand that this is
> not my place, you know?

Sara I must ask, what is it like if you, as a parent, discuss these topics on the mommy boards? Are there any mommyboards with any goddamned sense or all they all like this?

If that's the case, I'd probably be on a cf board too if I were in your shoes and the mommyboards were filled with this garbage.

nowhiggers, they're pretty much all like that. If I post about discipline, I get accused of abuse. If I post about my child's chore schedule, I get screamed at for damaging his self-esteem. If I post about gardening, there's bitching about how "nobody has tiiiiiime" from the same people who bitch about food costs. It just goes on and on, and it's even worse offline -- I have lost almost all of my friends because of how I parent (discipline, high expectations, not giving up my entire life for the sake of the kid) or because of voicing my opinion on other peoples' parenting (stop acting like a slut, you're a mother, not a sex-symbol; discipline your child or I am leaving; pointing out that a certain friend of mine could actually hold a job for longer than a month instead of expecting her ex from ten years ago to pay ridiculous child support). That's what I meant when I said I was here to rant about "parenting" these days; I'm not looking for parenting support, I just need somewhere to bitch about shit-ass breeders and their ridiculous attitudes!

And I forgot to mention this -- GOD FORBID I bring up a topic like welfare or tax breaks on a parenting board. Seriously. Apparently if you're a parent, you should just get those things without earning them and never question it, because if you do question it that means you're a horrible person who... I don't even know. A horrible person who thinks people shouldn't receive handouts just for having a kid, I guess. At best, when I discuss these things I'm seen as a hyopcrite ("But you have a kid! You should know how hard it is!"). At worst, I have had child services and the police called on me because I refused to sign up for WIC when my child was a baby. It's goddamn insane, is what it is, and it doesn't seem to be viewed rationally anywhere but here, at least not that I've seen.

Sara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I forgot to mention this -- GOD FORBID I bring
> up a topic like welfare or tax breaks on a
> parenting board. Seriously. Apparently if you're
> a parent, you should just get those things without
> earning them and never question it, because if you
> do question it that means you're a horrible person
> who... I don't even know. A horrible person who
> thinks people shouldn't receive handouts just for
> having a kid, I guess. At best, when I discuss
> these things I'm seen as a hyopcrite ("But you
> have a kid! You should know how hard it is!").
> At worst, I have had child services and the police
> called on me because I refused to sign up for WIC
> when my child was a baby. It's goddamn insane, is
> what it is, and it doesn't seem to be viewed
> rationally anywhere but here, at least not that
> I've seen.

What is WIC?

And yes, I am sick and tired of legal system telling people how to raise kids. And yes, I hate M.I.L.F. culture and all the other breeder stuff showed down people's throats.

If you chose to be a parent for right reasons, that's your choice, you live with it. Unfortunately, many people do it for all the wrong reasons. Like "experience of pregnancy" for example.

WIC is a program that gives you free formula and baby cereal and stuff like that. I didn't sign up for it, and my mother-in-law (who is definitely what you might call "baby rabid") ended up calling the police on me because of it -- because everyone knows that if you don't take government handouts you don't need, you're a child abuser! Grrr.

Sara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WIC is a program that gives you free formula and
> baby cereal and stuff like that. I didn't sign up
> for it, and my mother-in-law (who is definitely
> what you might call "baby rabid") ended up calling
> the police on me because of it -- because everyone
> knows that if you don't take government handouts
> you don't need, you're a child abuser! Grrr.

I wish government was that quick with helping out people buy medical insurance. I am not saying pay for it, but make it available to buy. Many full-time employed people are unable to buy medical or dental insurance - it is unavailable to them. Yet, feeding breeders is free. Sickens me!

My relative got badly hurt at work - their hand got badly injured, they had to return very shortly because workmen's compensation took forever. This person was 56 at the time of injury and is 62 right now and are still working with a hand that functions 50% of what it used to. Now, a 15 year old who had a kid would have everything handed to her. This is how we roll.

Techie, this is for you: http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/aboutwic/

Years ago, I had two relatives getting WIC. You get more stuff than you can use; and they gave me the milk, peanut butter, cereal and other food they got way too much of.

At this point, it may not a bad idea for people to buy their own medical care. As an alternative, maybe insurance can cover the basics; you pay for avoidable/unnecessary shit like IVF, repugnancy and well-baby care. I'm not sure of what an exact plan would be, but I know that something needs to be changed.

Keep working more hours, CF people! Millions of breeders depend on us.

You've touched another of my hot buttons, Techie. Our healthcare system is absolutely fucking ridiculous -- free Medicaid for people who are healthy enough to give birth and raise children, but no help for anyone else! My mother struggles to get her health issues taken care of, my grandmother is fighting to provide care for my great-grandmother in her declining years, one of my very good friends has freaking leukemia, but none of them can get help. I see it every... damn... day, and while I agree that children should have their medical needs met, why can't the PARENTS do that and leave some of that taxpayer assistance for people who need it? I honestly think the Medicaid system should be need-based rather than divided along childed/childfree lines. If you're ill, if you're elderly, etc., then you should get that medical care -- whereas a perfectly healthy child with a decent parent or two can WAIT.

Sara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nowhiggers, they're pretty much all like that. If
> I post about discipline, I get accused of abuse.
> If I post about my child's chore schedule, I get
> screamed at for damaging his self-esteem. If I
> post about gardening, there's bitching about how
> "nobody has tiiiiiime" from the same people who
> bitch about food costs. It just goes on and on,
> and it's even worse offline -- I have lost almost
> all of my friends because of how I parent
> (discipline, high expectations, not giving up my
> entire life for the sake of the kid) or because of
> voicing my opinion on other peoples' parenting
> (stop acting like a slut, you're a mother, not a
> sex-symbol; discipline your child or I am leaving;
> pointing out that a certain friend of mine could
> actually hold a job for longer than a month
> instead of expecting her ex from ten years ago to
> pay ridiculous child support). That's what I
> meant when I said I was here to rant about
> "parenting" these days; I'm not looking for
> parenting support, I just need somewhere to bitch
> about shit-ass breeders and their ridiculous
> attitudes!

I have a friend who has a kid, but he and his wife might as well be childfree considering that's how the breeder neighbors treat him and his wife and kid. Basically, to the mega breeder, if you only have one, there is something wrong with you.

Last time there was a confrontation about the breeders misbehaving brats, I told him straight up, (and during this confrontation when he was naming and shaming the brats for being brats, he was told "buuttttt they are just chyyyuullddddrruuuuunnnn!") when the breeder shit (and I use those words freely around him) starts, you need to pipe up and offer some opinions on the neighbors getting sterilized and doing a better job controlling their crotchdroppings. He did just that lol and they called the cops on him. lol. The cops couldn't do anything, but it's just another fine example of how the breeders love to waste the taxpayer money, in this case, calling the cops because my friend said what needed to be said to the breeders!

The healthcare should also go to military veterans.

Since there is no shortage of people in the world, no care associated with breeding should be covered. If breeders had to pay every fucking penny it takes to make their crotchdroppings, the birthrate would plummet. They also would not get favorable tax treatment in any form.

Keep working more hours, CF people! Millions of breeders depend on us.

catmeow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Techie, this is for you:
> http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/aboutwic/

I want to vomit! This is sick! How about some food and nutrition for my relative who got badly injured at work!

>
> Years ago, I had two relatives getting WIC. You
> get more stuff than you can use; and they gave me
> the milk, peanut butter, cereal and other food
> they got way too much of.

Our tax dollars goes to that and we have no say so! They are wasting our money! States claim their budgets fall short, but they are wasting every penny!

>
> At this point, it may not a bad idea for people to
> buy their own medical care. As an alternative,
> maybe insurance can cover the basics; you pay for
> avoidable/unnecessary shit like IVF, repugnancy
> and well-baby care. I'm not sure of what an exact
> plan would be, but I know that something needs to
> be changed.

No medical or dental insurance is available for many people. It's simply not offered! If you are over 45 - good luck, they will not insure you! Laws only protect breeders and not responsible elders! We can choose not to breed but we cannot not age!

> Techie Wrote:
>
> 4. To agree
> with the childfree that its wrong for you to get
> all the tax breaks and special treatment like
> welfare should you fall into a hard spot in life
> (the childfree are left to die in a ditch if they
> can't afford medical care, basically), and that we
> all get equal treatment, esp if we are paying the
> taxes for all this stuff, we should also get
> access to it or no one should get access to it.


I agree. Childless and childfree people have no access to any public welfare benefits, and are rejected for help by all private charities and church charities. If you don't have kids, you are left to die in a ditch if you can't afford medical care. That is a fact.

In my humble, for the record, "technically childfree" means you killed your kids. Other than that, you're childed. OK?

One thing that Sara hasn't mentioned (unless she did and I glossed over it--I'm lazy like that) is that breeders hold other "parents" to a different (higher) standard than they hold the cf when it comes to putting up with the spoils of their breeding. I mean, you're already a barbarian for not wanting kids, so Goddess only knows what you'll do with someone else's kid (they probably think the CF have sharp proboces that siphon out prepubescent BRAAAAIIIINS).

To illustrate my point: a breeder in a waiting room might be more inclined to reel in her shit-dumpling if there is a single person sitting there, and shit-dumpling is running around like a rabid monkey. HOWEVER. If you're another adult (particularly a female) and happen to have a child in your company, whether it's your own child, a niece, nephew or your friggin' imaginary friend, it's just expected that you will tolerate the disgusting behavior of some other kid, because, ya know, it's just SOOOO HAAARRRRD. But the reality is, a parent who takes the time to set limits and hold their kids accountable (and therefore reap the benefits by having respectful children) have every right to be even more ragingly PISSED because they are perfectly aware of how HAAARRRD it is but THEY FUCKING DO IT ANYWAY because it's the right thing to do, and they believe that if it's TOO HAAAARRDDDD then you shouldn't spawn, RIGHT??

I'm rabidly childfree, but in my opinion, it's a positive thing that Sara's here. Mind you, I haven't read anything she's said on other topics, but on this thread, she's certainly not rubbing me the wrong way (sorry to be speaking of you in the third person, Sara, if you're reading this).

It's very refreshing (and encouraging) to know that there are actually parents out there who understand our frustrations. I would love it if more parents read our board, so they wouldn't be so in the dark about what the childfree movement is about. Perhaps we'd garner so more respect and support that way. I wouldn't even mind if they posted once in awhile, as long (of course) as it wasn't to flame us, bingo us, or defend their breederism.