How far would (have) you go (gone) to cut ties when..

You have family that will NOT leave you in peace?
For whatever reason.
Rabid famblee
Parasitic famblee..

2 cents:
You do whatever you have to in order to save your sanity, even if it means severing ties completely. I had to do that with my abusive father and brother b/c I just got sick of their crap. As a result of their behavior, I haven's spoken to either of them in 12 years. It was that or subject myself to a lifetime of their destructive, degrading treatment. Don't get me wrong; this isn't a decision I made lightly. But after years of trying to "fix" my relationships with them, I decided it wasn't up to me, that I was finished banging my head against the wall trying to please them, and that not all familial relationships are worth saving.

TXGal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2 cents:
> You do whatever you have to in order to save your
> sanity, even if it means severing ties completely.
> I had to do that with my abusive father and
> brother b/c I just got sick of their crap. As a
> result of their behavior, I haven's spoken to
> either of them in 12 years. It was that or subject
> myself to a lifetime of their destructive,
> degrading treatment. Don't get me wrong; this
> isn't a decision I made lightly. But after years
> of trying to "fix" my relationships with them, I
> decided it wasn't up to me, that I was finished
> banging my head against the wall trying to please
> them, and that not all familial relationships are
> worth saving.


Yes, superb. Mainly to maintain ones own sanity, I can identify with that. Did you move faaar away, or just shut them out totally? (or both)
(p.s.: I'll bet that when you thought you had fixed things per 'their rules', they changed them again or moved the line, eh?)

I figured out by the time I was 12 that I had to get the hell out of Dodge.

I was a gifted child -- don't ask me how, I was just one of those kids who could spit out the right answers every time. My unacademic parents could not understand or deal with any of this and turned down every offer to put me ahead in school, enrol me in advanced studies programs, help me develop interests, or send me to anything that stimulated thinking or skills or hobbies. Then they informed me that they decided to send me to THE worst high school in the area because they thought it'd be 'good' for me. By the time I was a junior I was chomping at the bit to get away to university. I was going to school 7 hours a day and working 3 hours after school every day and all day Saturdays as a seamstress. My whoops of joy at receiving acceptance letters from Yale and Johns Hopkins amongst others was met with parental grimaces. I counted up the scholarships and grants I'd won and knew I had just enough to make it out of there without a penny from them. My father tried once more to stop me and said I should do something useful instead of studying for a degree, something suitable for a woman, "like be a secretary or something". Don't get me wrong - we never had a cross word between us. I'm just not quite what he had in mind for a daughter.

Across the years I've moved to London, became a European citizen, and I have a dream job in the field which I'd studied. I take weekend breaks in Paris, head over to Italy or the Caribbean, ski in the Alps and ride horses across southern Spain. I've been on an African safari and up in a hot air balloon. I flew a helicopter over a castle once. I have a nice set of friends and colleagues who like nothing better than a glass of wine and a gossip. I like my life. And I built it without the aid or approval of my parents.

In retribution -- presumably for proving him wrong -- my father hasn't called me or sent me a birthday or Christmas card for over 20 years.

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

""In retribution -- presumably for proving him wrong -- my father hasn't called me or sent me a birthday or Christmas card for over 20 years.""

Pity he is so limited there Amethyst. His loss.

2 Cents said:
Yes, superb. Mainly to maintain ones own sanity, I can identify with that. Did you move faaar away, or just shut them out totally? (or both)
(p.s.: I'll bet that when you thought you had fixed things per 'their rules', they changed them again or moved the line, eh?

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, 2 cents. I moved AND made it clear I wanted nothing to do with them. Of course, my father will always deem me the disrespectful, bitchy, ungrateful daughter, when really, he's the one who:

1)burst through the bathroom or bedroom door whenever he knew I was changing/getting ready to shower
2)asked me if I washed my pussy
3) wanted to control me so I would be "his little girl" forever
4) told me he was the best friend I would ever have
5)started treating me like shit as soon as he realized I would one day grow up, become a woman, and have sex
6)liked to cop a feel under my nightgown
7)made me watch as he beat the freakin' daylights out of my brother so that he went to school the next day w/bruises and slap marks all over his face
8)head-butted my brother, broke his nose, and left the blood on the floor for me to clean up
9)kidnapped me and my brother in the middle of the school day and brought us back to the States from Peru w/false papers
10) wouldn't let me visit my mom if I didn't understand my schoolwork
11) kept me up til 11 or midnight redoing my math homework if it was wrong the first couple times
12) kept me from having a social life as a teen
13)used ME to relieve HIS burdens

...the list goes on. What's really sick is that sometimes he and my brother would GANG UP ON ME w/verbal attacks, til I freaked and started screaming. THEN they would tell me how sick *I* was!

Put it to you this way: it has taken YEARS of introspection,pondering, consideration, timewasting, and observation to a) claw my way out of the wretched black hole they put me in, and b) learn how to "be a person." I have had to raise MYSELF and learn all over again how to behave around PEOPLE! You'd think I was raised by wolves, I was once such a maladjusted freak. The worst part is knowing that how I was treated wasn't my fault, but that my abusers think of themselves as innocent. That's the most galling thing of all. Well, that, and all the wasted years of my life I'll never get back...

TXGal, that is how abusers are: they will tell *you* that you are the crazy one. Your brother teamed up with your dad and you were alone. Asking you if you washed in certain areas is sexual abuse. Your dad seemed a little too interested in your intimate life. I hate it when people say family life is so wonderful. Often, family is the one who will hurt you the most. My mom and I have issues. I know they will resurface yet again when I see her in August when I housesit for her. Anytime I am tired of her comments and unwanted opinions, it is *I* who has the problem and get to hear the "I will never say another thing again"...yeah, right. My mom loves drama. I am 44, by the way, rather than some kid who needs to be told what to do, what to say, or what to wear.

I no longer speak to my dad since according to him, nothing I do is right, I guess it has been 8-9 yrs now. It is the best decision I ever made. It will be awkward tho when he passes. I'm an only and I only live a mile from his home.

We had a fight (I'm sure over something I did or didn't do), we made up over the phone so I left it on a good note, but I just never called him again. I was really under a lot of stress with work and school full time and I didn't have the time or energy for his drama and I wasn't about to not pass my boards over him and his needy bullshit. He could have called me and I didn't know what I was going to do if he did after I made this decision with myself...but...lucky for me, he never did. I discussed it w/ a therapist and she seemed to support my decision.

He didn't molest me and the like as has happened with others here at the site, but it was just crazy, exhausting, and nerve-racking. If I didn't go to grad school, I was bad; If I did go to grad school, I was bad. If I had homework to do over the weekend, I was selfish (as I didn't have time to come over and praise his glory). If I took ONE vacation day from work the entire year, he resented it and thought I should come see him (to praise his glory) instead of spending it with my husband. If I painted my fence over the weekend, I probably was bad because I wasn't entertaining him and praising his glory. If I told him I was going to the library to study, he told my cousin I was lying and I assume I was lying to get out of seeing him and praising his glory. If I saw him once a week, I was bad for not seeing him twice a week, you get the idea.

I'm sure to some he just sounds lonely or needed attention, but it was never-ending. One doesn't have children for their main and only source of entertainment and socialization. You make friends, have hobbies, whatever. He would see me exhausted with all I had to do for school and work, he would even comment on it, but then the next day, I wasn't doing enough for *him*. By the way, he was in good health, so he really didn't "need" me.

Next, I'm sure he would ask me to quit my job so I would have more time to praise his glory. (He did hint at me quitting school, sorry, didn't happen, and my mom hinted at me quitting my job before she passed, now who sounds selfish) It was all about him. In fact, he only wanted me to go to grad school so he could brag to his friends, so it upset him when I got a (good) job instead. But, when I did go 6 yrs later, I was bad because then he couldn't brag to his friends about grandkids I should have been popping out or dote on him. Everything was about him, narcissus I guess. I'm sure I'm bad since I don't call/see him, but last I checked, the phone works both ways.

I'm sure some of my friends think I'm a turd, but it doesn't matter what others think.
So, if you know in your heart it is right for you, and you won't live to regret it...do it! You'll feel as if a 1000# weight is off your head. Read the book Toxic Parents, it'll do you good.

TXgal, you and are are in similar situations. I also grew up with a lecherous, violent, sadistic father who left me with PTSD, a severe lack of self-confidence, panic disorder (with full-fledged panic attacks that I continue to experience now and then), and difficulties in interpersonal matters (like the art of defending myself). He abused my sibling and me physically, psychologically, and (to a lesser extent) sexually. My entire childhood was marked by relentless fear and dread. I couldn't even sleep through the night the whole time I was growing up. That's how terrified of him I was. I would just try to be quiet and small and unnoticed and hopefully he would leave me alone. But that didn't always work, as he had a temper to beat the band.

Even after we left home, and he got on in years, he never acknowledged what he had done. He never showed remorse. We were estranged the last 12 years of his life. He blamed us for the estrangement, never caring to acknowledge that he had caused it, and could have turned it around if only he had shown contrition for what he had done. He took his anger out at us in his will, too. The list goes on and on...

My mother was too weak, self-centered, and lazy to intervene or do anything to help us. She's still alive. I have a mediocre relationship with her. I simply don't respect her for not protecting her babies. Even though we've tried to talk to her about what it was like growing up and the damage it has caused, and how looking back it seems like she should have stepped in and done something, she acts like she doesn't really get it, and doesn't seem to want to express any sense of responsibility or remorse for it. It's very frustrating. Sometimes I think I should write her off, too. I feel so angry toward her for her abysmal parenting skills, and general lack of concern for our welfare.

Amethyst, I don't think your dad is ignoring you because he was wrong about you. He's ignoring you because he's jealous that you made such a great life for yourself

Hmm I think the theme developing here so far is about inappropriate parental control. We have Dads (but also Moms) unwilling to accept that their children might do better than them in terms of lifestyle, experiences, income, happiness, number of friends, whatever. That the kids will grow up and see the Emperor wears no clothes, and that Dad is just a sad old bastard with unaddressed control issues.

Everything here, from the explosive tempers to the violence to the sexual abuse and psychological abuse is not about anger, sex, disagreements or justice. It's all about Dad trying to ensure He is the Centre of the Universe. And the only way he can do that (um, because he is quite an ordinary person) is to make his own kids feel small, unloved and unwanted. One can appear and feel bigger by making others smaller.

Some two-bit psychologists and lousy advice columnists term it as 'competitive' -- Dad is competing with the offspring to ensure they always know he will come out on top. They've seen National Geographic and think we're all a pride of lions or something. But I see it as much more sinister than that. It's not a competition because one side is powerless. It is a way of administering perpetual abuse that is satisfying to the Dad without really being out-and-out illegal.

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Which makes me wonder why these people bother having children.

At what point do they decide they want to beat the crap out of their child for the rest of their lives? When they first hold their newborn, do they say aloud "It's the happiest day of my life!" whilst they're really thinking "I'm gonna beat the sh*t out of this thing soon as it's old enough and make sure it never surpasses ME." Or does it occur later, when Mom or Dad is having aging issues and becomes jealous of their younger, fitter, smarter offspring -- and they find themselves so angry at this reversal of fortune they start lashing out?

Again and again, it's all about parents thinking they OWN their children.

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

First things first: Amethyst, kudos to you on escaping your lead-weight parents and making a great life for yourself!

I have issues with my mother...it's not me, it's her. She's not abusive or controlling, but she is a narcissist. I got so sick of putting up with her bullshit (which has been going on since I was 9 years old and she left my dad, my brother, and myself after years of cheating on my father) last year that I cut off all contact with her for 9 months. I did not answer phone calls or emails from her from last July 4th to March of this year. What I said all along was that I wouldn't speak to her until she showed up on my front step and apologized to and seriously vowed to work on her behavior.

After 9 months (during which time she attempted to turn my husband against me with her manipulative ways), she finally did show up at my apartment. I actually couldn't have planned it better myself, because we were getting ready to move and there was a big "for rent" sign on the apt. door, and I was off at my internship for grad. school, and my husband was at work, and right when she pulled up in front of the place, the realtor was showing it, so there were strangers going into our apt. She thought we had moved without telling her (which I had actually been dreaming of doing, haha), and called me in a panic. I was already on my way home from my internship (in a town 20 miles away, actually where we live now), and I arrived in time to catch her. Long story short, we did tentatively make up, and she is working on her behavior...trying to, anyway. She knows that I'll continue to call her on her bullshit, and I won't put up with it anymore...I'm almost 25 fucking years old, I have a husband and a Master's degree, and I'm too far along in this life to eat shit any longer. I agree with everyone else in saying that you have to stand up for yourself when it comes to relatives with issues. Look out for #1!

I stopped speaking to my mother 5 years ago. She can die alone for all I care. It's not her fault she's mentally ill (thank god I'm adopted) but her refusal to seek help and her manipulations went far enough.

I go by the advice 'if a parent is evil or destructive, cut off contact.' I would go a step further and not even call to see if said moo or duh is still living.
What a bunch of shitbag parents are out there.

Amethyst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which makes me wonder why these people bother
> having children.
>
> At what point do they decide they want to beat the
> crap out of their child for the rest of their
> lives? When they first hold their newborn, do
> they say aloud "It's the happiest day of my life!"
> whilst they're really thinking "I'm gonna beat the
> sh*t out of this thing soon as it's old enough and
> make sure it never surpasses ME." Or does it
> occur later, when Mom or Dad is having aging
> issues and becomes jealous of their younger,
> fitter, smarter offspring -- and they find
> themselves so angry at this reversal of fortune
> they start lashing out?
>
> Again and again, it's all about parents thinking
> they OWN their children.


I would love to be able to answer the question on why these people have kids. A lot of it goes back to moo or duh being totally whacko. If there is one thing I've observed about a lot of whackos is they think they are normal with a good measure of arrogance, even if they are on meds. Even then, the 'crazy' comes through and they decide they do not need their meds anymore and quit.
Granted, not all psych screenings could weed out all of them. But I think it would go a long way on cutting down abused kids if these assholes were sterilized to begin with.

two cents ¢¢ said: What a bunch of shitbag parents are out there.

The icing on the cake is that my dad (aka sperm donor) has written me out of his will. He's leaving everything to a cousin--this after I rescued him twice by lending him $1000.00. One time he called me, SOBBING, while I was at work at a pet supply joint (this was before cell phones), asking to borrow $! What really gripes my soul, aside from being disowned, is that I would love to prosecute his ass but I don't know if it's too late, if I could prove anything, and I damn sure can't afford an attorney.

MWR, it's heartbreaking when you realize your own mother doesn''t have your best interests at heart.

A hug goes out to you.

>>>>>>>>something suitable for a woman, "like be a secretary or something".

That is hilarious because when I went to law school, I found so many of the "older" students like me heard that shit from their parents. One girls was the adult daughter of ....TEACHERS! You would think they would be 'into' education, but no...their daughter should be happy w/ her secretary job and not be a lawyer and just spend time with them. When she announced she was going to law school, the 1st thing they said was, "does that mean your not going to the baseball games with us?"

And it just wasn't the women, I heard a 30 y.o. male cop tell me his dad was unhappy with him going to law school and said something. He graduated in the top 5% of our class.

You guys are right, these parents ACTIVELY don't want their kids to have a better life/job than them because it is threatening to them. I can't imagine having that attitude if I was a parent, especially if they paid for college before. Even if I did feel that way, I think I would work it out and get over it since it has nothing to do with them. It just goes to show how selfish and immature Breeders are, even into their old age. Incredible, and they call us selfish.

Sorry MWR to hear that. What do your P's say now that you didn't "make something" of yourself AND you didn't breed?


And, I think these parents want their girls to "just" be secretaries and the like so they will quit their job and start popping out grandbrats.

It is also the reason I think Parents keep even their smart college-bound girls "sheltered". The more helpless you seem the more you'll need to stay home, have brats and be taken care of by a male wallet.

It goes to show how breeeders just don't ever *think* things out, even when they are parents of adult kyds. They don't think about sprogging and then they don't think about the messages they send their kids when they allegedly want you to go to college but also want you to start the grandbrats right away before you get too old.

My best friend was told by her dad, that college was good for a single girl. (but never let her date like My Big Fat Greek Wedding) He expected her to amuse herself at college and find a mayn.

years later she did find a GREAT man...with a decent job, all around terrific person. Nonetheless, she makes a ton more money than he does. I wonder what her dad thinks of that.

Parents=pathetic.

MwR, you ARE somebody. Don't let anyone or anything make you feel you are not "somebody" because of lack of college education or not having a 'career'. Being a good person is something to be proud of and a success since many people are not that decent.

Forgot to say how many of the rich or 'successful' people are not the kindest folks around and are downright awful even if they claim to have friends who are not as rich as they.

MwR, Western people often think how everyone is supposed to be a success. On a CF board (alt.support.childfree) where I posted back in the Day (2000), I mentioned my first job was at a Burger King when I left home at 17 due to family issues. I had also thought of taking a live-in job taking care of some single mother's kids as I was not getting enough hours at work. The woman's friend moved in so she had a roomie and a babysitter. I did get more hours at BK.

I got laughed at on that board for daring to look for work as a child caretaker and for working at a Burger King. Where the "F" was I to work at 17 years of age? I do not have a mother or father with money and connections to get me a fancy job at that age where the workers would look down on me for being a spoiled b@stard who got a job because of "name"., I took a second job at a Wendy's for a short time while I posted on BRATS! The adult brats laughed at me for that one. That was 2002.

I bet if I was some single mother who chose welfare instead of working at a fast-food place, the same ranters would scream how I better flip those burgers and not be a ho on the dole. I am tired of people telling others to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and all of that sh!t. It is easy to look down on cleaners and fast-food workers while the same people depend on the office cleaner to empty their trash bin and keep the toilets clean or go into Burger King for their own lunch.

Jah...I am in a mood right now...

married with rabbits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CF Uter, I had the problem of my parents really
> wanting me to succeed, but not helping to prepare
> me for it. I was told make good grades, be a good
> girl, and it will work out. Heh, done it, done it,
> where is it?
>
> I found out my parents were in fact not wealthy
> but in a heap of debt. My mother had no idea how
> scholarships worked and kept thinking I was going
> to qualify for every one in sight. Sorry, I was a
> smart girl who made awesome grades but my ACT
> wasn't high because I don't test well. I also was
> not given enough scholarship information and I got
> a guilt trip for suddenly not earning $20,000 in
> scholarships. She thought making honors at my
> local college would earn me money to go to my
> dream college.
>
> So it seemed that all the years of basic school
> ultimately failed when I went to college, since
> I've never 'made anything' of myself. I didn't get
> my license till the day before I started college
> and I really didn't understand anything about how
> the world worked since I was so sheltered.


I think I'm the same age as you MwR (I'm 24) and I relate to you completely re: the above. My parents drummed it into me all throughout my childhood and teenage years that 'you HAVE to study really hard and you HAVE to get good marks in your exams and you HAVE to go to university and get a degree - otherwise you'll end up flipping burgers for the rest of your life, but if you get a degree, you'll come out of university and waltz straight into an awesome, exciting, well-paid job!'. And I completely bought it.
So I did the above. I worked my ass off at high school in order to get into uni, and then went to uni and got my degree and got myself $15,000 in debt in the process.
I graduated in 2005. Want to know what I've been doing since then? Not flipping burgers, but doing something just as dead-end - waitressing and working as a barista in cafes. Making coffee instead of flipping burgers. I've tried applying for better-paying jobs and jobs that aren't dead-end where I could possibly one day be promoted, and have had no luck.
In conclusion, although for the most part my parents were PNB's, I am currently infuriated that they force-fed me the bullshit that 'if I go to university I will be automatically granted a great job in my field'. Part of me is angry that I believed them, but then I think hell, I was a child, I knew nothing of the world and so believed anything my parents told me about it.
So I'm pretty bitter nowadays as I feel I've gotten myself $15,000 in debt for NOTHING.

[end rant]

Dittos on the scholarship issue. But in fairness many blue-collar and working-class parents with children in the '60s and '70s weren't thinking in terms of their kids going to university, and no one was warning them that they were being expected to save to help pay in case their kids did go. Also, not till it was too late did many parents realize that a university degree would be virtually essential for their kids to have much shot of a decent independent lifestyle.

Everyone forgets that the early 1970s to the mid-1980s was an era of high inflation—double-digit (above 10%) during several of those years. People were struggling to make ends meet, and it was in the mid-1970s that many housewives such as my mother had to get work outside the house to help pay the bills. Savings did little in that decade with the stock market stagnant. The Dow average first hit 1,000 in 1966. It didn't get above 1,000 to stay until 1982. Those like my natural father with money invested in stocks then saw absolutely no nest egg building. Therefore, many families at the low end simply could not have saved a significant amount for their kids to go to uni anyway.

Many parents were like mine, with no direct university experience and no close relatives or friends having gone either, so they seriously thought that most bright students naturally got some kind of scholarship or financial aid package that paid their way through university. By the time they realized the truth, it was too late. And the university financial aid offices copped an attitude with many of these people, saying, "What's the problem here? You had 18 years to save for your kid to go to college. Why didn't you?"

But that said, many parents just really didn't give a rat's ass. Or they thought something was wrong with their kid for not getting one of those phantom $20K scholarships. In the case of my father, he spent a great deal of money on himself and his wants (such as amassing a huge collection of firearms) that he should have used to benefit his wife (Mom) and his family, and it was clear that he didn't want to help pay for my education. When my financial aid fell through and I left uni after one year, though, he hypocritically became pissed off at my dropping out. Considering the typical textbook abusive, hypocritical narcissist that he was, I guess this should have been little surprise.

Mom left him 25 years ago after he made the mistake of pointing one of his precious loaded guns at her. He later said that "he was just kidding". Since my mother has been ill with various things including breast cancer, he actually has had the nerve to tell people that "God's kicking her ass for leaving me." Of course he never mentions the gun. And you can probably imagine some of what my brother and I went through when we were coming up.