So Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were...Aspies???

So I'm bored with teevee and am flipping through channels this evening when I get to The Learning Channel. The program that's on is that "Four Wives" thing about the guy (Kody) who is a polygamist and has four wives. One of the wives has an older teenage son (16, maybe? 17?) who is an Aspberger's sufferer. The only part of the show that I actually caught was this kid was on camera claiming that many extremely smart people had/have Aspberger's - which is plenty true enough, I guess - and then he says "Like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson!"

Guys, is this really a thing? Or is it just Aspie parents blowin' smoke up their kids' skirts and trying to make them feel normal and that they can be anything they want to be? If it's true that several of the U.S. Founding Fathers were on the spectrum, who diagnosed that, and when? And using what criteria?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I saw the same episode last night (not the whole thing - just the part in which the kid was making these claims) and I thought, "Yeah...right!" I have NEVER heard that either of these men had aspbergers. Someone told this kid that to make him feel special. No one had ever even heard of it back then, and what proof is there? Absolutely none. At any rate, growing up in that weird ass family, the kid's aspbergers is the least of his problems.

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skyeyes
So I'm bored with teevee and am flipping through channels this evening when I get to The Learning Channel. The program that's on is that "Four Wives" thing about the guy (Kody) who is a polygamist and has four wives. One of the wives has an older teenage son (16, maybe? 17?) who is an Aspberger's sufferer. The only part of the show that I actually caught was this kid was on camera claiming that many extremely smart people had/have Aspberger's - which is plenty true enough, I guess - and then he says "Like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson!"

Guys, is this really a thing? Or is it just Aspie parents blowin' smoke up their kids' skirts and trying to make them feel normal and that they can be anything they want to be? If it's true that several of the U.S. Founding Fathers were on the spectrum, who diagnosed that, and when? And using what criteria?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Smoke blowing and reaching for straws. Considering how handy Franklin was with the ladies, he could read social clues quite well. Considering Jefferson's ability to reason and publicly speak, not much of a chance for AS. The only ones trying for a forensic diagnosis are those with an agenda,. It has not been done anyone with the appropriate qualifications. To be done you would need a team with historians and psychologists.

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“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

I have a seething dislike for forensic diagnosis of dead famous people.
I agree with Thom that none of that is done by top people in the field of psychological diagnosis.
Also notice that the group members who are trying reassure themselves that people famous for their genius contributions to society are always the focus and they never claim serial killers, abuser and rapists among their groups, but they are likely there too!

I suspect the names came from sites like this

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml

Mind, this site "speculates," it does not provide proof. Aside from Ben and Thomas, there's

Abraham Lincoln
Alan Turing
Albert Einstein
Alexander Graham Bell
Bobby Fischer
Carl Jung
Emily Dickinson
Friedrich Nietzsche
George Washington
Marilyn Monroe
H P Lovecraft
Henry Ford
Henry Thoreau
Isaac Newton
Jane Austen
Ludwig van Beethoven
Mark Twain
Michelangelo
Nikola Tesla
Thomas Edison
Vincent Van Gogh
Virginia Woolf
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

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Abraham Lincoln
Alan Turing
Albert Einstein
Alexander Graham Bell
Bobby Fischer
Carl Jung
Emily Dickinson
Friedrich Nietzsche
George Washington
Marilyn Monroe
H P Lovecraft
Henry Ford
Henry Thoreau
Isaac Newton
Jane Austen
Ludwig van Beethoven
Mark Twain
Michelangelo
Nikola Tesla
Thomas Edison
Vincent Van Gogh
Virginia Woolf
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Most of the people on that list were well-known to be mentally ill, not autistic/Aspie. Tesla was severely schizophrenic with likely avoidant personality disorder. Virginia Woolf and Van Gogh were depressed. Monroe was either depressed or bipolar. Lovecraft was a virulent racist. Bobby Fischer was a child prodigy and they always turn out fucked up. Edison was a dick who fucked over Tesla. Beethoven was deaf as fuck. There are new studies that theorize that Lincoln had depression.

That list is just completely inaccurate and belongs on a site about mental illnesses and the causation between artists and mental illness. God, this pisses me off. The autard crowd always wants to glom onto the geniuses that were actually mentally ill, but when people like Adam Lanza are reported to have autism/Asperger's, then they want to change the narrative and imply that he was mentally ill instead. That the autistics are the misunderstood artists and the mentally ill are the mentally deficient violent ones. It's fucking offensive.

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

The autards and their handlers are trying to claim anyone and everyone from history who they consider geniuses. So it would certainly seem anyway. This just makes them look sad and desperate and is unlikely to change anyone's mind about them.

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paragon schnitzophonic

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Abraham Lincoln
Alan Turing
Albert Einstein
Alexander Graham Bell
Bobby Fischer
Carl Jung
Emily Dickinson
Friedrich Nietzsche
George Washington
Marilyn Monroe
H P Lovecraft
Henry Ford
Henry Thoreau
Isaac Newton
Jane Austen
Ludwig van Beethoven
Mark Twain
Michelangelo
Nikola Tesla
Thomas Edison
Vincent Van Gogh
Virginia Woolf
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Most of the people on that list were well-known to be mentally ill, not autistic/Aspie. Tesla was severely schizophrenic with likely avoidant personality disorder. Virginia Woolf and Van Gogh were depressed. Monroe was either depressed or bipolar. Lovecraft was a virulent racist. Bobby Fischer was a child prodigy and they always turn out fucked up. Edison was a dick who fucked over Tesla. Beethoven was deaf as fuck. There are new studies that theorize that Lincoln had depression.

That list is just completely inaccurate and belongs on a site about mental illnesses and the causation between artists and mental illness. God, this pisses me off. The autard crowd always wants to glom onto the geniuses that were actually mentally ill, but when people like Adam Lanza are reported to have autism/Asperger's, then they want to change the narrative and imply that he was mentally ill instead. That the autistics are the misunderstood artists and the mentally ill are the mentally deficient violent ones. It's fucking offensive.

This. All this.

_______________________

“I was talking about children that have not been properly house-trained. Left to their own impulses and indulged by doting or careless parents almost all children are yahoos. Loud, selfish, cruel, unaffectionate, jealous, perpetually striving for attention, empty-headed, for ever prating or if words fail them simply bawling, their voices grown huge from daily practice: the very worst company in the world. But what I dislike even more than the natural child is the affected child, the hulking oaf of seven or eight that skips heavily about with her hands dangling in front of her -- a little squirrel or bunny-rabbit -- and prattling away in a baby's voice.”


― Patrick O'Brian, The Truelove


lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

These lists pop up now and again with variations. One person on my farcebook who was a PNB until she self diagnosed her youngest (late teens/early 20s at the time) as being an autard, and went full tardmoo on everyone. The list she posted included Julius Caesar and Leonardo da Vinci.

I was going to say, Ben Franklin was a MAJOR poon hound, and you don't get that way without being able to make some sizzling eye contact and turning on the charm.

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction, too.

OK - I am a GEEK!

And I have the Sci ed. to prove it.

I also had / have plenty of friends and boyfriends. I also got steadily promoted work wise - I must get along with people OK then. And then I created my own biz (with partners) - and of course you have to sell! sell! sell! Gotta keep the clients happy / coming back for more / and attract new clients too.

Somehow ~ I managed to do this. I do not have problems interacting with people. And - ok, I been 'in this' in some shape or form for 20 years now - I will say that 90% of the people I have worked with - were - like me.

They weren't hiding under their desks having nervous break downs.

An image that comes to mind - after the Tsunami in Japan, and all the work they had to do - there was one pic with Tech people holding a meeting, in the background was a black board with components labeled, peeps like me can read these things - there are universal languages out there, one thing that immediately stuck out to me was a component labeled "Honeywell". OK, that might be electrical then ~

We can spot these things, we speak the same languages, if anything - MOST tech people must have VERY GOOD communication skills.

This idea of the "Delicate Genius" (Seinfeld) (who rightfully mocked such bunk!) Or the Bumbling Egghead - who's too shy to even say Hi ~

COME ON!

NO ONE I have ever worked with was REMOTELY like this. Well, a few - usually in IT. A *slim few* there, also. And they'd usually get booted out or given a boring chair warmer job.

This "Big Bang" TV show - GAWD! I only saw like 3 episodes of this when I went to go visit / stay with my Mom once. ERG. DID NOT LIKE! Not to mention that my Mom is getting hard of hearing so she had the TV BLASTING at full volume. Oy!

I didn't like it. WHY are 'we' always portrayed as socially inept bumbling fools? NOT TRUE!

Just think of it - if one is smart enough to figure out Whatever Complex Subject - don't you think they'd be smart enough to figure out how to deal with people too? Um, YES!

Or, as another example - I studied Sci (and Biz) stuff in school - I spent alot of time at this, and often survived on junk food. But guess what? I *know* how to cook now! I taught myself off of the Internet. And by watching PBS cooking shows.

And I *could play* the 'helpless egghead' card and expect others to cook for me - oooo, I don't know, I'm a Delicate and Specific Genius! you see ~

COME ON!

If you can understand complex Sci - you can surely figure out how to clean your bathroom or make a decent meal. PAHLEEZ! eyes2

NON GEEKS do this too - or a Geek who - let's say he has 'issues' dealing with your relatives. Or goes into Fightin Mode whenever someone disses him. Oddly enough though - he can kiss his boss's ass. And he's always Mr. Good Friend to 'his boys'. Huh. It must be some kind of SELECTIVE communication problem then. eyes2 Better call Dr. Phil.

Or Joe / Jane Blow who keeps *their area* perfectly neat and tidy - such as a hobbyist Lotus mechanic who's garage was so clean you could eat off the floor - but - for some reason, such a person as this feels it's perfectly fine to back up the toilet and leave it that way because "they don't know" and also expect Someone Else to clean it up.

Great News! For These Types - they can CLAIM ASPERGERS NOW!

IMO for These Types - that's some nice Creative Laziness right there - Shape Up or Ship Out.
Do you think we're so stupid not to see through 90% of this BULL SHIT? :BS

And for the rest of these Cows who have - Not Assburger's Whiners - but Seriously Fuckt Up kids - these types are latching onto *anything* that they can - they're desperately trying to hook their kids into something 'just different' and 'hidden genius' - when in reality their kid is likely one step from a vegetable. Or is some kind of Psychotic that beats and sets fire to all it encounters. Pro Tip - that doesn't mean that your kid is a Genius who might someday become a Fire Department Captain. - No, it means your kid is seriously fucked up in the head.

Stop trying to make Assburgers = Genius.

=/=

And Us Geeks are not crazy weirdos, either. We are mostly - like anyone else. We eat at McDonalds and sex other people and everything!

STAHP! With all of this BULL SHIT! eyes2

:BS :BS :BS

If your kid is some kind of Unbalanced Weirdo Tard - you need to accept that. Assigning imaginary attributes to people long dead will not change things one bit.

I have aspergers diagnosed by a Ph.D in Psychology at age 18. I was kind of shocked and some what in denial.

They thought I had no friends because I wasn't friends with any immature high school jerkasses. I have many co-workers and customer friends. I don't like eye contact unless somebody is familiar to me. I know body language very well and tone of voice, but I take many things literally. I know sarcasm by tone of voice, but when people are joking I think they are serious. It took me awhile to learn what to say and what not to say (foot in mouth). I learned that nobody wants to hear me 'sperg about my obscure non-mainstream special interests. I'm very good with conversations and small talk, but I only socialize at work not including the internet.

I do many repetitive actions such as pacing, brushing my hair, or plucking my face. I make my own rules in my personal life. I don't buy half gallons of ice cream only bars and pints, only buy one package of new oreos or twinkies, and many more. I have routines, but am very adaptable to changes. I went through many obsessions/special interests. Some lasted many years and some lasting only a few months.

Many "famous" people with autism include Christian (Christine) Weston Chandler and Adam Lanza

lolz. I saw that episode too.

We can speculate about famous historical figures having Asperger's all day, but you can't say it with certainty. (As an aspie myself, I'd love to claim all my heroes as fellow aspies, but it would be conjecture. And silly).

I do feel sorry for that boy. Must realllllly suck having 16 siblings and all those crazy parents (and a camera crew in your house 24/7). I could barely handle two siblings and two parents. They can't possibly give all those kids the individual love and attention they deserve.

On the same episode, Kody was lowing about how he should've "spent more time" with his college-bound daughter when she was little. I was like, when? You have 17 fucking kids! That's two shy of clown car vag Duggar!

Sweet peanut-butter Jesus nipples, I cannot wait for this trend to end.

If you've got a genuinely special-needs kid, that's one thing. But the practice of shoehorning it into the mainstream-- while at the same time lowing and screeching about how said mainstream MUST bend over backwards to accomodate the flapping, grunting little sociopath-- needs to be beaten out of existence somehow.

Wouldn't it be great if blindly invoking Founding Fathers or claiming an ineptly-parented brat is "on the spectrum" were grounds for public flogging? Parunts doing so are proving they're unfit for breeding, and it'd be so nice to give 'em something back for flinging out that horseshit onto the rest of us.

I checked the new DSM-V criteria, and Asperger's is not even a separate diagnosis. It is now lumped into "autism spectrum disorder". Looks like those who had an Aspie's diagnosis prior, but do not meet the new criteria are given a label of "social (pragmatic) communications disorder"--or at least that is what http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html suggests.

The social (pragmatic) communications disorder criteria are given at http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Social%20Communication%20Disorder%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf.

I don't believe Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin would have qualified under either, because both have been described in bios and in reports of the time as being very outgoing and comfortable with public attention.

Who knows? I just think that so much of what we think about historical figures is based on contemporary ideas, and not the times in which the people lived.

I think all this bullshit stems from the fact that most geniuses are fucking nuts in one way or another. From what I've heard/read, a common symptom of autism is to tremendously excel in one area and be a tard in all the other ones. That's a pretty broad description, I know, but it's what a lot of these self-diagnosing tard-Moos seem to take to heart. As a result, Moos will want to use this as an excuse for not disciplining their shrieking monsters and expecting the rest of the world to just roll with the punches, figuratively and sometimes literally if it's a violent tard. After all, they can't stifle their pweshuses' creativity because he might grow up to be a world-altering genius! So shut up, teacher, and let Cuntlina punch you in the stomach! You'll be grateful when Cuntlina is curing cancer in ten or twenty years!

What Moos don't get is it's much, MUCH more likely that their rotten bastards will hurt or kill people in an autistic frenzy. Also, if a tard is some kind of prodigy, they will absolutely need some kind of discipline and structure to hone whatever special skills they have. Tardleigh may hold the secret to world peace or disease eradication, but it's not helping anyone when Tardleigh is throwing a 4-day-long tantrum because his macaroni and cheese didn't have a number of noodles that was divisible by five or because someone made eye contact with him.

In other words, Moos want it both ways: they want their human wastelands to be given special treatment for being tards, but they shouldn't be "segregated" in a tard class because it's "discriminatory."

For every one nutcase who changed the world for the better, there are dozens more who changed it for the worse. An autard might wind up being great at hacking and stealing information; they might be good at lock-picking and become a thief; they could be fantastic with explosives and use their skills to build bombs. Not to mention that mental illness encompasses a very wide range of issues, not just autism - either real or imagined. Someone who is bipolar, schizophrenic or depressed is not the same as someone with ADHD, Asperger's or spoiled brat syndrome oppositional defiant disorder. Not all geniuses are batshit nuts, and not all nutcases are brilliant, period.

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shy lurker
Many "famous" people with autism include Christian (Christine) Weston Chandler and Adam Lanza.

I occasionally like to peek at Chris-Chan's stupidly public Fakebook page. Looks like he's gotten his/her ass in some more trouble with the law after macing a game store employee because he was assburger-raging over Sonic the Hedgehog's blue arms (for non-fans, his arms have been peach-colored for ever and only in a recent game and TV spinoff have they been changed to blue). S/he claims the change disturbs his delicate autistic mind... and, you know, store clerks have control over such shit.