One Fundie breeder couple's response when criticized for famblee size

http://www.quiverfull.com/articles.php/id11/
(full article, and it's long^)

"When you are asked for the 147th time, "Why do you keep having so many children?", here is a very godly and loving response in the form of a letter. This was written by Pete and Corinne Kligmann, parents of 11.

To our friends and family,

As our family has increased and with each additional pregnancy, many of you have expressed concerns and fears and some of you have expressed harsh criticism of our family size. Because we love and respect you we need to address those concerns as well as defend ourselves to our critics............ .

We believe that children are an unqualified gift from God...... Sons are an heritage from the Lord, Children a reward from Him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.....

We belive that our children are our proof that we have been blessed by God....

....We have been told that God has gifted us with brains, modern medicine, and freedom of choice and that we should use them. We agree wholeheartedly, however, we disagree with the application and context in which this is said........

... We believe that God’s first desire for our lives is for Him to be in complete control of our family planning including when and how many children and the timing of their birth............


While we believe that our children are God’s blessing to us, we also believe that not every family is blessed this way. There are many families that God has chosen to either close the womb before any children were borne, or before the parents were ready...... "

....We have been told that many children in one family is a great financial burden and it is unfair to the other children within the family to have a large family. We believe that this is very untrue. We have already established that children are a gift from God. Why would He bless us with something that was too great a burden for us to handle?

As Christians we need to remember that our priorities are not the world’s. We are called to a different standard than the world has set.......

We ask that you rejoice with us at the addition
of every child that God sees fit to add to our family.....


We wrote this letter together about 8 years ago during a time of trial,
(job loss) in our lives when many people were "strongly" questioning why we
were continuing to have children.

We felt led by the Lord to write it all down in as loving a way as we
could to help those around us to feel more at ease with our allowing the Lord control. We are one of those couples who have babies on average every 14-16 months....."


In Him,
Pete and Corinne Kligmann
Abundantly blessed by the Lord with Kevin-22 and his wife Jennifer and
their son Isaiah born 6/30/02 and a new blessing due in March 2004,
Kenneth-21 and his wife Emily and their daughter Julianna born 5/26/03, Nicholas-19, Amanda-10, Jacob-9, Rachael-8, David-7, Rebekah-5, Sarah-4, Daniel-3, and Katie-born 5/31/03"


I guess fundies with big families get bingo'd too. That part about how "God closes the womb" if someone isn't ready to breed is PURE nonsense, as evidenced by the number of single moms' ever increasing numbers, and abortions. Also, the fact that orphanages around the globe have what I would call, "Quiver Overfill", makes it pretty clear to me that God is not a very good planner of famblees.

That part about how "God closes the womb" if someone isn't ready to breed

God has shut my womb with a bang! And I thank Him for it! Shut that door, sky-daddy! Yay!

Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.....

Like soggy diapers are the wilted hopes that your sons turned out to be anything other than mediocre, if not retarded. Blessed is the man whose quiver is from a good orgasm and not from a bunch of sprogs.

man oh man fundies are a scary bunch, and OH GOODIE they will be rasing more fundie breeders, I hope some rebell and become cf non beleivers, like me:gun1

I think it's freaky when someone has an aunt or uncle that is younger than they are.

I deciphered it a bit differently. I immediately picked up on the 'sons' thing: what I read, is that their PRIMARY concern is one of heritage (carrying on the family name - nonsense), THEN the rest of 'em in order of importance.

I also picked up on the fact that many, if not most, of their friends and family (who are probably Christians as well), show a great concern for their continuing to bring children into this world at such an alarming rate - a good thing.

Also, I noted where they were CONTINUING to have children even in the wake of a job loss - most likely the father - and nothing was mentioned about HOW they were able to pay for the births of any children which may have occurred during this time. There's NO WAY they could EVER afford all those kids if it weren't for the taxpayer, which I'm sure we'll never hear about.

And lastly, had this woman and man been of the 'chosen ones' from God to shut down her womb, they would have been the FIRST ones in line for IVF - hypocrits.

This is sick and distorted thinking. By the way, the word 'quiver full' makes my skin crawl.

what does 'quiver full' mean?

Here we go with the "Gift from GAWD" bullshit.

What about a gift card?

Doesn't that man know the concept of a gift card?

Oh and I hope this whole "God closes the womb" bullshit ends up in someone breeding until they end up dead on the delivery table. That'll sure close that womb up quick!

I read garbage like that and I think to myself the following favorite quote from All In The Family's Mike "Meathead" Stivic:

"I thank god I'm an atheist!" (which I am)

nokyds4me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what does 'quiver full' mean?


I had never even heard of the antiquated usage of the word "quiver" until I started lurking on breeder sites out of sheer curiosity and shock value, and of course they have good material for our enjoyment. But HERE'S where they get it..........


Psalm 127:3-5
King James Version
Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:
they shall not be ashamed,
but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate."



I might add that SOME of the fundies interpret the "enemies at the gate" as any "deliberately childless" person, any abortionist, or basically anyone that THEY deem a hater of children.

"I thank god I'm an atheist!" now thats a great bumper sticker.



kidlesskim: thanks, i always wondered what that meant, now i know

nokyds4me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I thank god I'm an atheist!" now thats a great
> bumper sticker.
>
>
>
> kidlesskim: thanks, i always wondered what that
> meant, now i know


LOL, you are welcome. I was raised up in that fundie Southern Baptist shit so I am a virtual encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to their strange belief systems and practices. Although some of THESE peoples' ridiculous rhetoric is so extreme that I have to look up shit sometimes to be able to decipher it! Being a former member of that type indoctrination and in recovery from it for 20 years, and also that I enjoy ACTUALLY READING The Bible and other religious books, I am a fundies' worst enemy. In a battle of wits with them, MY quiver is full and they are unarmed. Hence, they won't often discuss anything with me after their first lashing.

clematis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That part about how "God closes the womb" if
> someone isn't ready to breed
>
Well then why the fuck with all the IVF and scientific intervention for some breeder brains?

I am so so SO glad I was raised by atheists so I can just say "Um. I don't believe there is a god, satan, heaven or hell." That really throws a monkey wrench into all those arguments and conversion attempts.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

kidlesskim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.quiverfull.com/articles.php/id11/
> (full article, and it's long^)
> We believe that children are an unqualified gift
> from God...... Sons are an heritage from the Lord,
> Children a reward from Him.

No, children are a punishment, nothing more, nothing less.

kidlesskim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Psalm 127:3-5
> King James Version
> Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:
> and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
> As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
> so are children of the youth.
> Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of
> them:
> they shall not be ashamed,
> but they shall speak with the enemies in the
> gate."
>
>
>
> I might add that SOME of the fundies interpret the
> "enemies at the gate" as any "deliberately
> childless" person, any abortionist, or basically
> anyone that THEY deem a hater of children.


Wouldn't EnemyintheGate be a great screen name? Wish I had thought of it sooner!

I swear, reading stuff from any flavor of the Holy Babble is like reading middle-eastern ebonics. Very confusing, cryptic and just strange.

Glad to be Pagan.

KidFreeLuvnLife said
-----------------------------------------
Glad to be Pagan.


what do pagans beleive

Ooh, good point, Feh. Should fundies use IVF?

God closed a womb BUT
God also "created" modern medicine

So which is it for them? What do they choose?

On a different note, I call bulls**** on their blissed-out Lord in my womb quiverfull business. Take a look at the ages of the children:

Kevin-22 and his wife Jennifer and
their son Isaiah born 6/30/02 and a new blessing due in March 2004,
Kenneth-21 and his wife Emily and their daughter Julianna born 5/26/03, Nicholas-19, Amanda-10, Jacob-9, Rachael-8, David-7, Rebekah-5, Sarah-4, Daniel-3, and Katie-born 5/31/03"

There's nearly a decade gap between the 3 oldest sons and the passel of young ones. I wonder why that is? I suspect Amanda was an accident and then they felt she needed a sib her own age and things just kept rollin' from there. Poor woman must have a vagina like a wind tunnel.

kidlesskim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ...."We have been told that God has gifted us with
> brains, modern medicine, and freedom of choice and
> that we should use them. We agree wholeheartedly,
> however, we disagree with the application and
> context in which this is said"........

Oh, that is SO rich. The "freedom of choice" bit. Which part DO they agree with, then? Because they sure try to take away everyone else's "freedom of choice" - to be CF, to use contraception or to get an abortion. Evil fuckbags.

IMO, most of these fundies simply seem to think there is some doG=given right to unlimited procreation. Either the man feels he has to continually prove that his dick works or the woman doesn't feel "like a woman" if she isn't popping one out each year. After all, chyldren are a gift from GAWD--makes no difference if they can feed said chyldren or not--GAWD will provide. What the fuck ever happened to "God helps them that help themselves"? God gave you a brain, now fucking USE it! Oh and whilst we're at it, God has supposedly enjoined people to be "stewards of the earth"--how does overpopulating the planet accomplish that? Of course, fundies tend to interpret the bible to jibe with what they think it should mean.

There is one comfort in all of this: there are bound to be "quiverfull kyds" who will rebel against this crap and will end up happy, healthy CF. Not all of these "quiverfulls" (how I HATE that word!) are going to want to spend a good part of their lives procreating and supporting kyds.

As for "the deliberately childless being haters of children, well, then, guilty as charged, though I hate breeders far more than I hate chyldren--if they actually DID TMIJITW instead of just talking about it, that would cut down on the brattiness at least 50% and there would be far fewer kyds to hate.

> "We have been told that God has gifted us
> with brains, modern medicine, and freedom of choice
> and that we should use them."

This person has got a point about 'God give us a gifted brains'. Also he is right that our 'brain is a gift from God'.

Because I can use my 'gifted brains' to think wise and think about how kids are hard work and I don't need them. Also my brains is a 'gift from god' because I can learn about the moos and breeders properly and know well that kids are burden and it is not compulsory to have a child.

clematis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ooh, good point, Feh. Should fundies use IVF?
>
> God closed a womb BUT
> God also "created" modern medicine
>
> So which is it for them? What do they choose?
>
While they think they can pick and choose from the bible, I say they don't get to receive ANY benefits from the science they scorn. That means, NO IVF, NO hospital visits, NO medications, NO modern fabrics, NO artificial flavors or colors, NO seat belts, NO airplanes...NONE of the benefits of modern life.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Some months back I posted some comments about working with fundies who had the "God will provide" attitude. They are usually poor workers who do as little as possible on the job, though when given a chance they will try to proselytize fellow employees (barf). Their belief seems to be that God "provided" them the job and will protect them from having to work too hard, or something. I think the same attitude drives fundie use of welfare programs: "God will provide" through programs that we taxpayers fund...

I forgot about this until it finally dawned on me today.

In my favorite TV series, "All in the Family," there was a funny line by Edith about large families. The scene had a discussion about a woman's menstrual period including various euphamisms and other descriptions of it including "The Curse." At the end of the scene, Edith recalls what her friend so-and-so, a mother of 8(?) children called it - "The Blessing!" LMAO

LOL nokyds, did you mean to quote KLK's post, not mine?