Gays who want baybess

http://www.queerty.com/same-sex-couples-may-soon-be-able-to-produce-biological-children-together-scientists-say-20150224#comments

I was looking at this article about gays and the idea that science may find a way for two men or women to have kiddies. Most of the gay commenters seemed to think it was a good idea. Only one person called it self-centered and told people to find compassion and adopt. I wonder what is going on with this "trend" of gays wanting the suburban life with the picket fence. I remember I had this gay hairdresser years ago who was really flamboyant, funny and would go "ewwwww" over kids. When he was trying to be straight to satisfy his conservative family he forced himself to get involved with a woman who oopsed him. She miscarried and he was so relieved. He said he had the he-be-je-bees about how close he came to parenthood. At the time, mid 90's I thought that all gays were CF and interesting, but there is this "trend" now to be like the gay couple on Modern Family. I guess maybe it is to fit in and get the corporate jobs.

I think that being CF has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation. Not at all. Assumption that gay people are more likely to be CF because they are gay is like saying that I am more likely to breed because I am straight. It is simply not true.

In the past, there used to be a similar ideology when people of 2 different races got together. It was mistakenly assumed that they are less likely to have kids. Likewise, if 2 people of the same exact race got together, it was assumed that they were there to start churning out their DNA replicas immediately.

I think that idea of suburban white picket fence has lost its appeal to the majority. Trying to sell it to gays is not going to revive it.

I have a gay cousin and he and his partner adopted a little boy from some Central American country. I know its not a biological child as the article is about, but they adore that little boy. So really, i don't think its always about vanity, keeping up with Modern Family, bit about BEING a family. And i don't see anything wrong with two people of the same sex loving each other and raising a child.

But of course my uber xtian brother sees this, our cousin's sexual orientation,and the adoption, as wrong and immoral. My somewhat conservative sister has tried to sway him to be more accepting of this, to no avail.

mr exile and I have quite a lot of g/l/bi friends, no trans that im aware of, but most of them are on the fence, some want kids, but their partners don't,

other couples just plain don't want kids now or ever, actually really deeply hate them, "why don't you settle down with a nice (insert opposite gender) and start a family", they hate being treated like anything less than a couple or family for not having or being able to have kids of there own (or choosing not to have kids at all).

some really wish they could have a kid of their own genetics, something about the difference between it feeling like a couple getting a pet vs a couple having a baby. but don't want to have to deal with a surrogate, or some 3rd party sperm donner.

to me it sounds like just another option on the table for people who cant breed, it would be interesting though, imagen how many gay/lesbian/trans couples out there never passed on there genes causing dead ends, what will the new offspring of these couples who were previously unable to breed be like, smarter/dumber/more sexually ambiguous/serious genetically flawed/somehow superior?

and then the final question, will these kids ever be abandoned or put up for adoption like any other hetro couples offspring once all these kinds of genetic mashing to have kids have become mainstream?

Me and husband are a family, no children required to make it official.

Who really thinks the progeny of gay people will be mutated? It's straight people who keep having gay babies, and gay couples who already use surrogates for producing children often use other gay friends, lesbians surrogating for gay male couples, gay men contributing sperm for lesbian couples, and the resulting children are just as likely to be LGBT as any children of your average hetero couple.

Can I just state here, ftr, that I find Modern Family to be a stupid show?
And that Vergara woman is annoying as fuck.

I don't care if a person is gay or straight, trans or bi if they want to have a kyd. If they can't naturally have one, then they should adopt.

Using surrogacy, IVF or any other unnatural method to bring more humans onto the planet is plain selfish. I don't care who they are. ALL breeders, IMO, are just fucking selfish.

The Wolf and I are of the group that doesn't want kids, don't like them, don't want to deal with them. That was a lot of gays I knew years ago. They didn't have them, and didn't want them.

We were heteronormative enough to get married, but not enough to have OR adopt a loaf. That being said, if LGBTs want so damn badly to buy into that spouse and kiddies crap, then at least adopt. There are lots of kids out they would we be thrilled to have a "forever home". No need to reproduce.

Personally, I do not understand this crap with gays and lesbians wanting to have their own brats--hell, I don't even understand wanting to adopt.. And now, with this nonsense of being able to have a child from same sex genes or whatever, there will just be more of them. They've already ruined the gayborhoods in SF, now they can make a bad thing worse. This crap is ruining LGBT culture and the community in general, at least in my opinion.

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Presto
Me and husband are a family, no children required to make it official.

Who really thinks the progeny of gay people will be mutated? It's straight people who keep having gay babies, and gay couples who already use surrogates for producing children often use other gay friends, lesbians surrogating for gay male couples, gay men contributing sperm for lesbian couples, and the resulting children are just as likely to be LGBT as any children of your average hetero couple.

I don't think it's people thinking the kids of gay people will be mutated, I'm thinking it might be mutation caused by this kind of extremely experimental genetic manipulation they are discussing in the article. If conventional IVF from male-female risks a bunch of defects already, imagine having the DNA of two women or two men mashed together. Sometimes trying to be this hetero-normative isn't worth the potential suffering that this kind of experimental science risks bringing on a child.

Cloned creatures have had their organs fail unexpectedly or have other things suddenly go very wrong with them, and scientists to this day and after many years still don't know why. Do they really want to be that selfish and vain to risk that on a child? Sometimes there is a limit on trying to be like others, and I think Frankenbabies like this are that limit.

I noticed this back in te 90's. Of course it was before the internet. All the gays I happened to know were flamboyant and I really enjoyed their energy and friendliness. There were a few CF gay males who did seem to dislike women as they saw no use for them, but I really enjoyed knowing the flamboyant guys. Kids to them were one big "ewwww" That is awful the gay neighbourhoods are breeder central now.

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mumofsixbirds
I don't care if a person is gay or straight, trans or bi if they want to have a kyd. If they can't naturally have one, then they should adopt.

Using surrogacy, IVF or any other unnatural method to bring more humans onto the planet is plain selfish. I don't care who they are. ALL breeders, IMO, are just fucking selfish.

This. Were I in charge, all fertility treatments would be illegal.

I just don't get this powerful aversion most infertile people seem to have towards adoption. If someone can't bring themselves to love or even care about a child just because it isn't biologically theirs, then maybe they're not mature enough to be having kids anyway.

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Mumofsixbirds just gave me an idea.

If everyone regardless of sexuality, can't naturally produce kids for enough generations, the ability to breed as the breeders please, will stop, they'll have to wait to get their artificial insemination, wait for their required C-section birth, and soon the ability or desire to breed will be bottle knecked by humans advances in maternity related health/science.

Although I still doubt they'll hold an IQ test for those who want to get on the waiting lists.

As a gay male childless couple, I am happy as a pig in the proverbial not to have or ever want kids, and my partner is the same. For us personally, it's just not important nor is it a biological desire. The few gay couples I have talked to who want kids, comes down to biological desire for kids, peer pressure from social quarters, skewed belief of furthering gay rights and heteronormilisation of homosexuality. Similarly to heterosexuals, homosexuals aren't immune to wanting kids for selfish reasons - as it's not ABOUT the kid, but rather what the kid DOES FOR them. In this case, gay breeders are nothing more than gay moos, or Goos.

Goos.. I love it. I'm trans and I quite frankly also find fertility treatments to be repugnant. I find fertility in general is repugnant but that's another matter. As far as LGBT individuals having kids, I don't think that gender or sexuality matter in this case. Although it seems to be (to me) a cultural death. LGBT have an awesome culture, it's just dying with this new generation it seems. No one wants to be "queer" except me it seems. I love being something other than the mainstream. I once read that an article that gays are slowly become more and more "heterosexual" and that it's boring. I sortof agree with that.

I believe if God/nature made you gay, take that as a hint: you're not meant to reproduce. (I'm gay, so my belief has nothing to do with thinking gays aren't fit parents). What if homosexuality is nature's way of managing the population? Maybe it's not, but there really isn't any other evolutionary purpose for being exclusively homosexual that I can see. The same goes for infertility in any other situation.

Sexual orientation aside, all these fertility "advances" are just preventing adoption. The same people who can afford to adopt are instead choosing to make a DNA-replicant with that money. How the fuck is that ethical?

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nokidsandhappy
As a gay male childless couple, I am happy as a pig in the proverbial not to have or ever want kids, and my partner is the same. For us personally, it's just not important nor is it a biological desire. The few gay couples I have talked to who want kids, comes down to biological desire for kids, peer pressure from social quarters, skewed belief of furthering gay rights and heteronormilisation of homosexuality. Similarly to heterosexuals, homosexuals aren't immune to wanting kids for selfish reasons - as it's not ABOUT the kid, but rather what the kid DOES FOR them. In this case, gay breeders are nothing more than gay moos, or Goos.

Have you noticed any regret amongst your gay friends? Perhaps some are out there that want to be perceived as "normal," but then realize what a shitty deal parenting and the LifeScript (TM) is, gay or straight?

It's so true Catharsist, the greater the general acceptance and normalization of LGBTI, the greater the decline in individuality attributed to it. I love the freedoms and progressiveness that comes with being a part of this group, and I too find it quite disturbing that the queer culture is dying, in preference for conformity. I think that this is due to the fact that some in our culture want so desperately to be accepted into heterosexuality, that they're willing to give up what is unique and set us apart. Sorry, but acceptance mean accepting us for what we are completely, not just accepting the more heteronormilised parts of us. To me the whole gay having kids thing, is akin to gays living as straights -marrying opposite sexes and breeding - in actuality it's more of a progression of it. However, this us my opinion, and if it works for others - good for them. Although, as studio54 asked, the few friends I have seen with kids also seem to be having a shitty time parenting, but they would never accept it, rather believe that these problems are simply not their creating but be somehow related to the ills of society. Hence Goo lowing.

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nokidsandhappy
It's so true Catharsist, the greater the general acceptance and normalization of LGBTI, the greater the decline in individuality attributed to it. I love the freedoms and progressiveness that comes with being a part of this group, and I too find it quite disturbing that the queer culture is dying, in preference for conformity. I think that this is due to the fact that some in our culture want so desperately to be accepted into heterosexuality, that they're willing to give up what is unique and set us apart. Sorry, but acceptance mean accepting us for what we are completely, not just accepting the more heteronormilised parts of us. To me the whole gay having kids thing, is akin to gays living as straights -marrying opposite sexes and breeding - in actuality it's more of a progression of it. However, this us my opinion, and if it works for others - good for them. Although, as studio54 asked, the few friends I have seen with kids also seem to be having a shitty time parenting, but they would never accept it, rather believe that these problems are simply not their creating but be somehow related to the ills of society. Hence Goo lowing.

I worked with a gay man in his late 40s/early 50s in the early 2000s. He thought the idea of gay marriage, parenting, and the "white picket fence" LifeScript for gays was ridiculous. According to him, gay men who wanted either were basically poseurs.

And then there's my attorney friend who loves the idea of gay marriage, adoption, and gays involved really in all areas of family law, 1. Because they deserve the opportunity for both, and 2. Because without gay marriage and child rearing, you don't have gay divorce and child custody disputes. Never underestimate the power of the profit motive, I suppose.

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StudioFiftyFour
I worked with a gay man in his late 40s/early 50s in the early 2000s. He thought the idea of gay marriage, parenting, and the "white picket fence" LifeScript for gays was ridiculous. According to him, gay men who wanted either were basically poseurs.

And then there's my attorney friend who loves the idea of gay marriage, adoption, and gays involved really in all areas of family law, 1. Because they deserve the opportunity for both, and 2. Because without gay marriage and child rearing, you don't have gay divorce and child custody disputes. Never underestimate the power of the profit motive, I suppose

Sometimes, I do wonder, why was the push for gay marriage so strong? I understand rights and all of that, but here is what is really suspicious. GOP supports it. GOP, historically, has supported just about everything that had money tied into it.

If people of any sexual orientation would like to get married, great. But I think that our society and our laws have changed so much in the last 50 years, that marriage itself is becoming a little nostalgic. There are cases where it is the only way something can take place, but number of those cases are dropping. Immigration, tax and government pension laws are still written around marriage, but, other things, not so much.

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Techie
Sometimes, I do wonder, why was the push for gay marriage so strong? I understand rights and all of that, but here is what is really suspicious. GOP supports it. GOP, historically, has supported just about everything that had money tied into it.

I think that a few are mouthing lines about having gay friends and being supportive of gay rights because they realize that a lot of voters are starting to view anti-gay rhetoric as bigotry, pure and simple. They're catching flak for it.

A lot of very conservative politicians who were resoundingly anti-queer several years ago are all, "Oh, I have gay friends!" now. Really? Where?? I would LOVE to interview these friends.

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Techie

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StudioFiftyFour
I worked with a gay man in his late 40s/early 50s in the early 2000s. He thought the idea of gay marriage, parenting, and the "white picket fence" LifeScript for gays was ridiculous. According to him, gay men who wanted either were basically poseurs.

And then there's my attorney friend who loves the idea of gay marriage, adoption, and gays involved really in all areas of family law, 1. Because they deserve the opportunity for both, and 2. Because without gay marriage and child rearing, you don't have gay divorce and child custody disputes. Never underestimate the power of the profit motive, I suppose

Sometimes, I do wonder, why was the push for gay marriage so strong? I understand rights and all of that, but here is what is really suspicious. GOP supports it. GOP, historically, has supported just about everything that had money tied into it.

If people of any sexual orientation would like to get married, great. But I think that our society and our laws have changed so much in the last 50 years, that marriage itself is becoming a little nostalgic. There are cases where it is the only way something can take place, but number of those cases are dropping. Immigration, tax and government pension laws are still written around marriage, but, other things, not so much.

I'm gonna rant. I... HATE the HRC. They go on and on about gay marriage this, and gay marriage that, while housing, healthcare, employment, and everything that is actually tied to an actual livelihood sits on the back burner. For example, ENDA came AFTER the gay marriage hype. PRIORITIES. I can get fired from my job for being trans, I can be kicked out of my apartment and refused a lease, and good luck getting insurance to cover your transition shit, but AT LEAST I CAN GET FUCKING MARRIED. :headbrick:sbx

The HRC only works for white, attractive, rich, assimilated gays and it fucking shows. And another thing, what about us queers who don't want to get married? Why do married people get all the fucking bennies? I want the marriage goodies to be done away with. If someone wants marriage, it should be because they wanted marriage, not the privilege and tax breaks that come with it.

/rant :cen

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So.. We know that food and water are running out, with overpopulation and all... Yet people keep on poppin' out those babies! I guess they want to have their baby and eat it too...

My top reason is that parenting gives you a free license to be selfish based purely on the fact that you're being selfish for an emanation of your own self. The illusion that what you do to benefit your children benefits them solely is a fallacy. Every parent benefits from the benefits that their children receive. Henceforth, it gives one a license to perpetuate a dog-eat-dog mentality that I perceive to be amoral. Parents say that their children are their greatest loves, what they forget to add is that they are their ONLY loves and only because their children are a reflection of themselves. I prefer to be able to love multiple people and have lasting relationships of many types and possess the essential core value of empathy for all than to restrict myself to an echo chamber of ego-masturbation and self-serving chicanery.

In short: Not parenting makes you a better person.

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catharsist
If someone wants marriage, it should be because they wanted marriage, not the privilege and tax breaks that come with it.

Exactly. Why should a relationship be tied to extra tax breaks, benefits and discounts? Because a book that was written more than 2000 years ago says so?

Again, I am not agaist gay marriage, I am for people doing what they want to be doing. What I am agaist is single people getting fucked over. Not all single people get to be that way by their choice and the ones that are single by choice, why make them pay more?

The only thing that I can think of that would make things more fair is we abolish our current tax system and go to flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate. Being married should not reduce or increase taxes.