Pushover GD moos who allow abuse from kids are teaching their kids, by example, to also accept disrespect

I had this realization about the types of people who allow their kids to walk ALL over them, treat them like dirt, kick/punch/hit without consequences, etc., and whose reaction to abusive treatment from their kids is a "gentle redirection" or whatever.

These types of moos are so afraid of damaging their kids' wittle egos, and that's why they don't discipline them in a normal, healthy way, like a grounding or an old-school slap in the face when needed. (I clarify here because there IS a thing as too severe, or dehumanizing, punishment and I don't advocate for that at all.) But, by refusing to assert for their own rights and boundaries as humans who deserve respect, these mombies actually ARE hurting their kids' egos by acting OK with being disrespected. How? By setting the example that allowing disrespect is the right thing to do.

There was this study, something I learned in a psych class, where a group of researchers studied two groups of youth. In one group, the kids' parents smoked cigs, but would tell the kids "don't smoke" and lecture about it all the time. In the other group, the kids' parents did not harp about the subject, but they also set the example by living healthy and being smoke-free. Which group of kids smoked, and which ones didn't? The ones who had the parents' example - actions speak louder than words.

These moos may think that, in a twisted way, by refusing to send Bratley to time-out or give him a stern put-in-place reality check, that they are "respecting" him/her. But no. By telling Bratley, through action, "it's okay to accept abuse from others," they are sending that message along to the kid too.

So what happens 10 years later, when the kid is bullied ruthlessly in school, or taken advantage of by shitty friends, or pushed around by a controlling boyfriend?
Will they stand up for themselves and nip disrespect in the bud, the way Mom [didn't] teach them through action and example?
Or, will they be too meek to assert their rights, because Mom taught them that taking abuse is the right way to do it?

Thoughts?

When you read the gentle discipline section over on Smothering enough, you begin to see a pattern. There are a LOT of Moos (and it's always the Moos, whereas the Duhs are glad to wail the kids' asses) who want to be their kids' BFFs rather than their parents. The reason for this is because these Moos are still hanging onto childhood baggage where they feel that their own parents physically abused them as well as emotionally and mentally damaged them by spanking them. I don't mean genuine abuse - I mean widdle Princess got spanked when she was being a rotten little shit, and rather than move the fuck on, these Moos secretly hold these unhealthy grudges against their parents for using real discipline. Now that the Moos are grown and have their own brats, they desire to prove to their parents that you can raise a child without "violence" (read: spanking). Then they proceed to tell themselves that their kids are perfect, "high-spirited" little angels because they refuse to admit that their parents were right and that physical discipline really works. You can tell they're all just itching to beat their kids to a pulp, but they don't because they'd rather live their lives trying to prove their own "abusive" parents wrong than raise a kid properly.

But I fully agree; by Moos just letting their kids treat them like shit and not teaching them any boundaries or right from wrong, the kids grow up thinking that it's perfectly fine to treat everyone else like garbage. Then, when they find out that everyone else won't take their shit, they lash out in anger because they were never taught how to deal with it when someone doesn't just bend over for them like Mommy did/does. Brats don't need respect, they need discipline. They can have respect when they grow up, act like civilized human beings and earn it like everyone else.

However, I think gentle discipline/redirection/etc. reinforces the belief that abuse is okay from an angle different than the one you described. I don't think it's so much they learn that "it's okay to accept abuse from others" as it is "it's okay to hit, kick, scream at and spit on people who don't let you have your own way." I think that by not smacking their brats around a little when the kids act like assholes, Moos are breeding a generation of entitled, snowflake bullies who will punch and kick and act violent until they get their way. If Junior thinks it's A-OK to slap Mommy in the face and all that happens is his Moo hugs him for it, he's going to slap his relatives, strangers, his classmates and his teachers. Then, if the teacher dares try to use verbal discipline on the little monster, the kid's rabid cow mother will storm into the school and say or do doG knows what to the poor teacher (like the one who put the teacher in a choke hold that we discussed already).

Moos are causing so much damage to their kids by failing to teach the fuckers appropriate boundaries. Their kids can be their friends when they're grown up, but until then, they need a parent to keep them in line and show them that they don't get to do whatever they want, whenever they want. If these Moos are still this scarred by being spanked as kids... well, for one, they're fuckin' pussies. Secondly, they should never have bred if they are genuinely this fucked in the head from an occasional smack on the ass twenty years ago. Fuck, I think I remember one Moo trying to say she had PTSD because her parents spanked her.

And it's ALWAYS the women who do this. Duhs don't stand for this shit because no man will sit there and let his kid hit him in the face. Even if it is his precious dickwerkz trophy, the average Duh will not hesitate to yell at or smack a kid that tries to hit him. Again, after reading Smothering for so long, another pattern emerged: the gently-disciplined kids never listen to Moo, but they listen to Duh or were "afraid" of him because he wasn't afraid to spank, do time-outs or yell at the brats. Lots of bullshit over there along the lines of "I want to do GD and my husband doesn't, what should I do?" and lots of suggestions of divorce from other non-discipline Moos.

Traditional discipline is not abuse just because the kid doesn't like it. Slapping and grounding a kid when he's a shit might piss him off now, but he'll grow into a more well-rounded, sane adult if he understands boundaries. You cannot expect a child to know how to behave if they aren't shown how to do so, and since kids are fuckin' stupid, you have to teach them what's right and what's wrong with simple methods. A spanking is meant to hurt a little bit, but mostly is a firm, quick reminder to the kid that says "Hey, knock that shit off!"

I kind of think of kyd discipline like planting a bush in the backyard. You have to keep it "tamed" with trimming and proper care; otherwise, it's going to grow out of control. That occasional maintenance keeps it under control and, therefore, results in something nice and worthwhile. When it grows enormous from lack of care, it's not only not very pleasing to be around, but it's going to take a LOT more work to get it back down to a manageable level. When its condition gets too bad, you might just go, "Oh, fuck it" and not bother with it, meaning it grows more and more out of control, getting worse and worse. Eventually, it will extend too far and start being a bother to someone else, and that someone else might just be the one to deal with it for you. And it'll probably be in a way you really do not like.

That's kind of a long-winded comparison, but I think kid discipline is in the same vein. Nip the shit in the bud from the get-go and raise a kid with rules and the understanding that they can't always get what they want, and he or she might grow up into a decent person. But just letting them do whatever the hell they want without consequence means they'll turn into assholes, and a judge isn't going to smooch Junior's snowflake ass when he's 19 and punches a cashier in the face for not letting him shoplift.

I agree, and what you're describing definitely happens. But I don't think that's the only affect. Not everyone naturally has a dominant/aggressive personality. For the people who would naturally be more timid or passive, or the "too nice" personality types, they'd have a horrible time getting walked all over and accepting abuse, because moo acccepted it too and they never had a role model show them what standing up for yourself and disallowing disrespect should look like.

I've worked with kids who were raised this way. What you get from super-wimpy gentle discipline are kids who have no sense of boundaries.

Personal space boundaries...nope. They're up in everyone's faces, including other kids, and don't understand body cues for "leave me alone".

Conversational boundaries...nope. They don't get the give-and-take of social discourse, and the ones I've met are used to dominating conversations.

Behavior boundaries....HA.

Time boundaries...nope. They are used to calling the shots at home. If they feel like drawing when it's time for something else, they will keep on drawing, and are shocked at the fact that they can't set the schedule.

@thundergirl85, ohhh okay, I see what you mean now. Thanks for explaining. And I agree with that aspect of gentle discipline too. Since disrespect without punishment would be the norm in some GD homes, a meek child might not see such behavior coming from someone else as anything but normal. That won't bode well for the girls, as it could probably put them at a higher risk for getting involved with abusive people, like the resulting misfits from the aggressive side of gentle discipline. Not saying men can't be abused, but I think people are much more inclined to treat a woman like a doormat than a man.

I know Moos don't want to "abuse" their widdle dumplings by spanking them or enforcing rules, but honestly, no kid ever died from the occasional slap on the ass or grounding. I would say that not disciplining said brats properly counts as a form of neglect, as the Moos are clearly neglecting their child's behavior by feebly asking them to stop sodomizing the dog with hedge trimmers. These Moos are so scared of their kids saying "I hate you!" that they're willing to forgo all forms of actual discipline. I hope it's worth it when Junior is a 300-pound teenage tard who beats Moo to death because there were no more chicken nuggets.

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Cambion
When you read the gentle discipline section over on Smothering enough, you begin to see a pattern. There are a LOT of Moos (and it's always the Moos, whereas the Duhs are glad to wail the kids' asses) who want to be their kids' BFFs rather than their parents. The reason for this is because these Moos are still hanging onto childhood baggage where they feel that their own parents physically abused them as well as emotionally and mentally damaged them by spanking them. I don't mean genuine abuse - I mean widdle Princess got spanked when she was being a rotten little shit, and rather than move the fuck on, these Moos secretly hold these unhealthy grudges against their parents for using real discipline. Now that the Moos are grown and have their own brats, they desire to prove to their parents that you can raise a child without "violence" (read: spanking). Then they proceed to tell themselves that their kids are perfect, "high-spirited" little angels because they refuse to admit that their parents were right and that physical discipline really works. You can tell they're all just itching to beat their kids to a pulp, but they don't because they'd rather live their lives trying to prove their own "abusive" parents wrong than raise a kid properly.

You just described my aunt to a t.
My cousin is currently serving a life sentence for murder (which he committed at 17 years old).