Anyone else thinking of leaving the country?

That sounds like a pretty good place to live, being so close to Chicago. I lived in Grand Rapids, Michigan for a while and I would get out to Chicago every now and again. We currently live in South Carolina, which is disgustingly breederific. I feel bad for my poor husband, who had no idea what he was getting into moving to the Bible Belt. He's even more liberal and hardcore CF than I am, and that's saying a lot! Right now his big dream is to move to Hawaii...I have to admit, it's tempting to move there instead of going through an immigration headache.

I'd consider Canada, Scotland or Wales. Possibly a Scandanavian country. Or somewhere that is benign and not involved in the horseshit plaguing the US.

England is becoming infested with middle-eastern scum, otherwise that would be my first pick.

Like Catabat, I too am a New Zealander who has moved to Canada. I like Canada but the saying 'you don't know what you've got til it's gone' is so true - I wasn't a big fan of my homeland at all when I was there, but since I left I've come realise how fucking brilliant NZ is. Of course there are some things I still don't like about my country, our justice system is a fucking joke and it recently became illegal to spank your brats which is fucking ridiculous, but by and large I think it's far better than this part of the world and I also didn't realise how liberal we are back home - I was horrified when I learned that RU-486 isn't legal in Canada.
I will admit I feel lucky right now being a NZ citizen because it means if (dog forbid) the breederama of the States was to creep up into Canada and start poisoning it, I can just jump on a plane and move back home. Those of you who are American and can't just walk out so easily, have my sympathy.
I plan on living in Canada only for two or three more years as my lifelong dream is to live and work in Japan and I want to head over there as soon as I can (honestly KidlessKim, I find your referring to Asian nations as 'ching chong' countries offensive, sure they have bad points but so do all countries).
My main point is that I feel very fortunate to be able to just up and leave the North American area if I want to and move back home and I sympathise with those of you who can't.

I have wanted to move to Canada for many years. Toronto is one of my favorite places I've ever visited - so clean and civilized, and good food everywhere. I tried to move there years ago with my Canadian boyfriend, but he turned out to be a WannaBreed who cheated on me with some bimbo. The dumbass is actually living in the US as an illegal instead of going back up north where the quality of life is better.

My husband and I are seriously considering Portland, OR after having visited there. Their child population is declining so quickly they are shutting down dozens of schools per year. We went on a tour of the Pearl District, and our guide actually said that the area was a nightmare for urban planners because it was full of CF. (why, I have no clue)

I pretty much agree with Two Cents that there's (almost) nowhere left for Americans to run.

Aside from Canada -- which is an excellent choice and a do-able immigration option from the States -- most other top picks are shut down to attempts by Americans to enter for more than a few weeks as money-spending tourists.

The UK and the rest of Europe have very stringent entry requirements -- you can't just rock up, and there's no such thing as an application form for residency and/or employment for people who aren't already EU citizens. Well there is, but on applying you have to prove that you are (a) married to a European citizen, (b) the child of a European citizen, (c) a famous and wealthy artist/actor/musician, or (d) a well-heeled entrepreneur with an intention to create a corporation here.

The only other option for residency application (without the right to employment) is to prove that you are self-supporting with an unearned income to the tune of 50,000+ US Dollars a year.

Or else you have to be one of the top employees at an international American blue-chip company that's willing to pay and sponsor your temporary work visa (and you have to remain with that employer, oh, forever).

Those are the rules pretty much throughout Europe. It's overcrowded here and not enough jobs to go around, so they're not letting anyone else in from outside its own borders -- and if they do let any non-EU people, they have to be from Commonwealth countries or ex-Dutch or ex-French colonies (the Caribbean, India, Pakistan, Angola, Egypt, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, etc). People from the Far East, the US, and Central America just haven't got a chance unless they get married to a European.

New Zealand, however, down round the other side of the globe, suffers from different skills shortages because their population is quite low. If you check their government website for visas available, at different times they're looking for decent, hard working native-English-speaking people with different levels of skills and expertise. NZ is a brilliant option and certainly worth looking into.

And nowhere, nowhere, nowhere is as breeder-centric as America. Plus I'm afraid I have to agree with those of you who've voiced this -- America is headed down the shitter.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Several countries appeal to me. New Zealand is spectacularly beautiful. Australia has a year-round growing season; a gardener's dream. And beer! Canada seems sensible as well. But I do love Michigan, mostly for the ease in getting into the outdoors for boating or hiking.

Don't really knwo which countries you can go to, but I can tell you with absolute certainty not to go for Belgium, the Netherlands, The UK, France or Spain. Their going the same place the USA is going, just a few years behind. Honestly, if you were thinking about one of those countries, I have lots of good reasons not to do it.

Let's face it, most of the western countries are either expensive to move to, or in the same downward spiral the USA is in. And moving to a third world country, .... just wait 10 years and you can save yourself the hassle of moving.

I just finished reading: Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond. It's demonstrates the need for population control (without actually saying it) and in the first chapter tells how big, prosperous farms on Greenland during the first viking colonization probably would have survived the harsher enviroment and climate change if they worn't overburned by refugees from smaller poorer farms, but no .... That made me think how we the west are importing all those third world problems with the influx of illegals. If you import a lot of third world people, sooner or later you end up with a third world country.

Their should be a Cf island/country: only CF welcome - my guess is it would be the most prosperous country in the world (and probably nuked out of excistence by another country because it doesn't want it's hard working tax paying citizens to leave the country in droves).

Honestly; it's you and me who pay for most of our government spending.
I did the math for Belgium:
total population: above 10 million
Total workforce: around 4.5 million, of which around 2 million for government (civil servants, politicians, but also people working for organisations getting all of their funding by the government ... And yes they pay taxes, but getting 2X in wages from the government, and then paying 1X taxes to that government, well that means you have received 1X from said government, not contributed to it ...). That leaves 2.5 million people and the companies they work in to pay for EVERYTHING!

Amazing that there is ANYPLACE decent in Indiana, I live in this shithole called Evansville and believe me, there's a good reason it's called E-ville. I'm tired of the transphobia and homophobia and just general Christian Fundie bullshit. The second I get some money, DW and I are OUTTA HERE, probably to Canada after she finishes her schooling in Arizona.

MerlynHerne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazing that there is ANYPLACE decent in Indiana,
> I live in this shithole called Evansville and
> believe me, there's a good reason it's called
> E-ville. I'm tired of the transphobia and
> homophobia and just general Christian Fundie
> bullshit. The second I get some money, DW and I
> are OUTTA HERE, probably to Canada after she
> finishes her schooling in Arizona.


I have an aunt and uncle who live in Evansville and while they have lived all over The United States due to his job, they have chosen to retire there. They say they like the weather despite a few years ago a tree crashed through their roof during a snow storm, go figure.

Go figure indeed, though if they are happy that is what counts. I just am not happy here and will be more than happy to leave Evansville. Actually, I'd have to move at some point because DW's asthma and my arthritis are really bothered by the humidity.