Dear Husband: I'm Not The Person You Married

Quote
trance formation usa
Eww. Maybe if Dud shared some of the child-rearing responsibilities, he'd be as tired as you are. Or you'd be less tired. Or something.

Why do these women accept ALL of the household duties on top of all the childcare duties? Okay, if you don't have a job you should do the housework. But a child is a 50-50 endeavor belonging to both parents. Don't make a baby if you're expecting your partner to care for it alone.

Quote
StudioFiftyFour

Quote
trance formation usa
Eww. Maybe if Dud shared some of the child-rearing responsibilities, he'd be as tired as you are. Or you'd be less tired. Or something.

Why do these women accept ALL of the household duties on top of all the childcare duties? Okay, if you don't have a job you should do the housework. But a child is a 50-50 endeavor belonging to both parents. Don't make a baby if you're expecting your partner to care for it alone.

I don't see fathers as being necessarily responsible for 50% of the work.

I believe that both parties should talk it over and decide who is going to do what. I believe that in the majority of the cases, it's the women who want the children and the fathers are at best neutral on the matter.

Prior to even trying for conception, both parties should discuss very candidly what they see their responsibility as when the baby arrives, AND what they see their partner's responsibility as. This was there are no surprises when the kid arrives.

I also believe that this approach applies well to any major discretional change within a household. And it's perfectly okay to make whatever claim you want to your partner as long as it's honest. For example, it's okay to say, "No, I don't want a dog. I don't want to walk a dog, feed a dog, take care of a dog, etc. etc., and if you decide to get a dog, you'll be doing (insert percentage here) of the work surrounding the care of that dog."

If necessary, fencesitting men (and women) need to be able to stand up and state that same position regarding children.

Quote
freya

Quote
StudioFiftyFour

Quote
trance formation usa
Eww. Maybe if Dud shared some of the child-rearing responsibilities, he'd be as tired as you are. Or you'd be less tired. Or something.

Why do these women accept ALL of the household duties on top of all the childcare duties? Okay, if you don't have a job you should do the housework. But a child is a 50-50 endeavor belonging to both parents. Don't make a baby if you're expecting your partner to care for it alone.

I don't see fathers as being necessarily responsible for 50% of the work.

I believe that both parties should talk it over and decide who is going to do what. I believe that in the majority of the cases, it's the women who want the children and the fathers are at best neutral on the matter.

Prior to even trying for conception, both parties should discuss very candidly what they see their responsibility as when the baby arrives, AND what they see their partner's responsibility as. This was there are no surprises when the kid arrives.

I also believe that this approach applies well to any major discretional change within a household. And it's perfectly okay to make whatever claim you want to your partner as long as it's honest. For example, it's okay to say, "No, I don't want a dog. I don't want to walk a dog, feed a dog, take care of a dog, etc. etc., and if you decide to get a dog, you'll be doing (insert percentage here) of the work surrounding the care of that dog."

If necessary, fencesitting men (and women) need to be able to stand up and state that same position regarding children.

As idyllic as this sounds, I've had the exact conversation with my ex-husband about a dog. He agreed to 100% take care of the dog but didn't follow through. I moved out but the dog eventually died of what I strongly suspect was him neglecting to take care of it and walk it for 3 hours a day.

I've also had many conversations with men at the start of numerous relationships regarding expectations and though I've been 100% honest I've yet to receive the same courtesy. They have a strong predilection to state what they think I want to hear. If any of them had actually followed through with what we discussed and agreed to then I'd still be with him. I can see this happening to couples dating who are considering marriage and regarding kids. The honest one gets burned in these situations.

As far as men being neutral about having kids, this is not my experience. The overwhelming majority of men I've known were adamant about having kids. A few of the ones who referred to themselves as childfree with absolutely no interest in kids, blah blah blah, later admitted if a close friend or relative were to die they'd be happy to adopt their kids. Guess it is called 'conditional' childfree, childfree only as long as it doesn't interfere with them being considered by society as a devoted friend/relative or being deemed a hero by society. So, not childfree.

Quote
freya
The honest one gets burned in these situations.

Quote
freya

As idyllic as this sounds, I've had the exact conversation with my ex-husband about a dog. He agreed to 100% take care of the dog but didn't follow through. I moved out but the dog eventually died of what I strongly suspect was him neglecting to take care of it and walk it for 3 hours a day.

I've also had many conversations with men at the start of numerous relationships regarding expectations and though I've been 100% honest I've yet to receive the same courtesy. They have a strong predilection to state what they think I want to hear. If any of them had actually followed through with what we discussed and agreed to then I'd still be with him. I can see this happening to couples dating who are considering marriage and regarding kids. The honest one gets burned in these situations.

As far as men being neutral about having kids, this is not my experience. The overwhelming majority of men I've known were adamant about having kids. A few of the ones who referred to themselves as childfree with absolutely no interest in kids, blah blah blah, later admitted if a close friend or relative were to die they'd be happy to adopt their kids. Guess it is called 'conditional' childfree, childfree only as long as it doesn't interfere with them being considered by society as a devoted friend/relative or being deemed a hero by society. So, not childfree.

Quote
cassia
In all of my live-in experiences with men, I have been extremely disappointed with how they actually fail to follow-through with agreements of household responsibilities.

After years of disappointment, I learned to have a specific pre-move-in discussion about the housekeeping expectations and followup talks.
In each relationship, the male expectation that I should be happy to be a free scullery maid was a major part of the relationship failure.

I have a fairly 'bachelor' attitude to housekeeping duties, so the expectations were very minimal and yet the men constantly failed to step up to do much of anything.

My current relationship is just over ten years, in which we keep seperate households.

Quote
StudioFiftyFour

Quote
freya

As idyllic as this sounds, I've had the exact conversation with my ex-husband about a dog. He agreed to 100% take care of the dog but didn't follow through. I moved out but the dog eventually died of what I strongly suspect was him neglecting to take care of it and walk it for 3 hours a day.

I've also had many conversations with men at the start of numerous relationships regarding expectations and though I've been 100% honest I've yet to receive the same courtesy. They have a strong predilection to state what they think I want to hear. If any of them had actually followed through with what we discussed and agreed to then I'd still be with him. I can see this happening to couples dating who are considering marriage and regarding kids. The honest one gets burned in these situations.

As far as men being neutral about having kids, this is not my experience. The overwhelming majority of men I've known were adamant about having kids. A few of the ones who referred to themselves as childfree with absolutely no interest in kids, blah blah blah, later admitted if a close friend or relative were to die they'd be happy to adopt their kids. Guess it is called 'conditional' childfree, childfree only as long as it doesn't interfere with them being considered by society as a devoted friend/relative or being deemed a hero by society. So, not childfree.

Freya,

I think we are both coming at this from the perspective of only dating members of the opposite sex. For me, I've met plenty of women who are in their early/mid 30s, have decent jobs and now are finally ready to have kids. The trouble was, I (and apparently other guys) didn't want to father their kids and fulfill their dream of motherhood and in some cases, SAHM'ing. Not only do I not want to do what it takes to care for children, I have no interest in financing such an endeavor. What's more, even if I hit some sort of $eight-figure lotto jackpot today, I would still have no interest in child rearing or financing any child rearing operation.

Some women, and men, find my position offensive. I just consider it honest and unapologetic.

Quote
yurble

Quote
freya

Quote
StudioFiftyFour

Quote
trance formation usa
Eww. Maybe if Dud shared some of the child-rearing responsibilities, he'd be as tired as you are. Or you'd be less tired. Or something.

Why do these women accept ALL of the household duties on top of all the childcare duties? Okay, if you don't have a job you should do the housework. But a child is a 50-50 endeavor belonging to both parents. Don't make a baby if you're expecting your partner to care for it alone.

I don't see fathers as being necessarily responsible for 50% of the work.

I believe that both parties should talk it over and decide who is going to do what. I believe that in the majority of the cases, it's the women who want the children and the fathers are at best neutral on the matter.

Prior to even trying for conception, both parties should discuss very candidly what they see their responsibility as when the baby arrives, AND what they see their partner's responsibility as. This was there are no surprises when the kid arrives.

I also believe that this approach applies well to any major discretional change within a household. And it's perfectly okay to make whatever claim you want to your partner as long as it's honest. For example, it's okay to say, "No, I don't want a dog. I don't want to walk a dog, feed a dog, take care of a dog, etc. etc., and if you decide to get a dog, you'll be doing (insert percentage here) of the work surrounding the care of that dog."

If necessary, fencesitting men (and women) need to be able to stand up and state that same position regarding children.

As idyllic as this sounds, I've had the exact conversation with my ex-husband about a dog. He agreed to 100% take care of the dog but didn't follow through. I moved out but the dog eventually died of what I strongly suspect was him neglecting to take care of it and walk it for 3 hours a day.

I've also had many conversations with men at the start of numerous relationships regarding expectations and though I've been 100% honest I've yet to receive the same courtesy. They have a strong predilection to state what they think I want to hear. If any of them had actually followed through with what we discussed and agreed to then I'd still be with him. I can see this happening to couples dating who are considering marriage and regarding kids. The honest one gets burned in these situations.

As far as men being neutral about having kids, this is not my experience. The overwhelming majority of men I've known were adamant about having kids. A few of the ones who referred to themselves as childfree with absolutely no interest in kids, blah blah blah, later admitted if a close friend or relative were to die they'd be happy to adopt their kids. Guess it is called 'conditional' childfree, childfree only as long as it doesn't interfere with them being considered by society as a devoted friend/relative or being deemed a hero by society. So, not childfree.

By contrast, I've had those conversations with partners and although they have not always been great about following through with what they said they'd do, they've always accepted it was their responsibility and have done it without complaint when reminded. I don't think I should have to remind, but that's another issue.

I've also never had a relationship end due to wanting kids.

Dunno why you're finding so many duds, honesty has worked for me.

Quote
freya

Quote
yurble
By contrast, I've had those conversations with partners and although they have not always been great about following through with what they said they'd do, they've always accepted it was their responsibility and have done it without complaint when reminded. I don't think I should have to remind, but that's another issue.

I've also never had a relationship end due to wanting kids.

Dunno why you're finding so many duds, honesty has worked for me.

You're doing something right yurble. If you publish a book I'll buy it

Quote
starlady
Well, she had time to write that long letter.... didn't she? That would have been plenty of time for a good 'roll in the hay'. A little time budgeting there lady. That would help.

Quote
Miss_Hannigan
Hell I wish I had the energy I had two weeks ago when I washed, folded, and actually put away all 10 loads of laundry... I am concerned about our dog’s ears and what it’s going to cost to take her to the vet... I am a party planner and a personal shopper. I am a chef specializing in chicken nuggets and pasta. I am a housekeeper that can’t keep a house. I am the cheerleader and the librarian. I am the night and the day nurse...

Quote
awesominatrix

Quote
Miss_Hannigan
Hell I wish I had the energy I had two weeks ago when I washed, folded, and actually put away all 10 loads of laundry... I am concerned about our dog’s ears and what it’s going to cost to take her to the vet... I am a party planner and a personal shopper. I am a chef specializing in chicken nuggets and pasta. I am a housekeeper that can’t keep a house. I am the cheerleader and the librarian. I am the night and the day nurse...

Why is it that SAHMoos can't even do the simplest of chores properly? Every adult has them, and she doesn't even have a job that takes away from her time. Those are your only responsibilities, Moo, so shut your whiny trap and get cleaning.

And as for you being a "night and day nurse", tell that to an actual nurse. You know, a person who does WAY more than wipe snotty noses and put band-aids over their kids' scrapped knees. Go ahead, do it. I dare you.